snails vs loach

[Velvet]

Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much, and
I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds of
mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm thinking
about reducing the numbers.

Clown loach would seem to be a good way - I have three khuli's and
they've never shown any interest in the snails. Mixed community tank,
with angels/gourami down to harlequin rasboro and cardinal tetras. Also
oto and somewhere there should be a dwarf bristlenose pl*c but can't
find him at the moment.

Am about to re-plant after high temp faulty heaterstat killed off most
of the plants, and was considering a snail-eating loach or two - the
elimination of the snails means the filtration would then cope with the
bio-load of the loaches.

The tank is a 28US gallon long, so size is somewhat of an issue - I
believe clowns can get quite big and certainly sound like they'd outgrow
the tank.

Are there any other alternatives to the clowns on the snail-eating
front, that'd be happy as a small group (3 max) in a well-planted tank
and stay fairly small sized for a couple of years? (quite happy to
re-home with LFS once they've grown a bit). I've heard things about
yoyo's sucking on fish.. not keen to have that happen.


--


Velvet

[obladi]

I have a loach tank-I sometimes purchase a load of snails from the lfs
to feed the loaches. The clouns are aggressive with snails as are the
yo-yo's and striatas. I seldon see a snail left after a couple of
hours. I like the yo-yo's, very playful if you have several...loaches
like a community and really don't bother any of the other fish (and
vice versa). They are ready eaters of flakes but prefer the
"crumbles".

On Fri, 21 May 2004 15:26:16 GMT, Velvet >
wrote:

>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much, and
>I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds of
>mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm thinking
>about reducing the numbers.
>
>Clown loach would seem to be a good way - I have three khuli's and
>they've never shown any interest in the snails. Mixed community tank,
>with angels/gourami down to harlequin rasboro and cardinal tetras. Also
>oto and somewhere there should be a dwarf bristlenose pl*c but can't
>find him at the moment.
>
>Am about to re-plant after high temp faulty heaterstat killed off most
>of the plants, and was considering a snail-eating loach or two - the
>elimination of the snails means the filtration would then cope with the
>bio-load of the loaches.
>
>The tank is a 28US gallon long, so size is somewhat of an issue - I
>believe clowns can get quite big and certainly sound like they'd outgrow
>the tank.
>
>Are there any other alternatives to the clowns on the snail-eating
>front, that'd be happy as a small group (3 max) in a well-planted tank
>and stay fairly small sized for a couple of years? (quite happy to
>re-home with LFS once they've grown a bit). I've heard things about
>yoyo's sucking on fish.. not keen to have that happen.

[NetMax]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much, and
> I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds
of
> mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm thinking
> about reducing the numbers.
>
> Clown loach would seem to be a good way - I have three khuli's and
> they've never shown any interest in the snails. Mixed community tank,
> with angels/gourami down to harlequin rasboro and cardinal tetras.
Also
> oto and somewhere there should be a dwarf bristlenose pl*c but can't
> find him at the moment.
>
> Am about to re-plant after high temp faulty heaterstat killed off most
> of the plants, and was considering a snail-eating loach or two - the
> elimination of the snails means the filtration would then cope with the
> bio-load of the loaches.
>
> The tank is a 28US gallon long, so size is somewhat of an issue - I
> believe clowns can get quite big and certainly sound like they'd
outgrow
> the tank.
>
> Are there any other alternatives to the clowns on the snail-eating
> front, that'd be happy as a small group (3 max) in a well-planted tank
> and stay fairly small sized for a couple of years? (quite happy to
> re-home with LFS once they've grown a bit). I've heard things about
> yoyo's sucking on fish.. not keen to have that happen.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Velvet

I think Botia striata is more your size. I think newborn MTS can be
found on the surface early in the morning, so a fish which would eat them
from there would be useful too.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Velvet]

NetMax wrote:

> "Velvet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much, and
>>I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds
>
> of
>
>>mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm thinking
>>about reducing the numbers.
>>
>>Clown loach would seem to be a good way - I have three khuli's and
>>they've never shown any interest in the snails. Mixed community tank,
>>with angels/gourami down to harlequin rasboro and cardinal tetras.
>
> Also
>
>>oto and somewhere there should be a dwarf bristlenose pl*c but can't
>>find him at the moment.
>>
>>Am about to re-plant after high temp faulty heaterstat killed off most
>>of the plants, and was considering a snail-eating loach or two - the
>>elimination of the snails means the filtration would then cope with the
>>bio-load of the loaches.
>>
>>The tank is a 28US gallon long, so size is somewhat of an issue - I
>>believe clowns can get quite big and certainly sound like they'd
>
> outgrow
>
>>the tank.
>>
>>Are there any other alternatives to the clowns on the snail-eating
>>front, that'd be happy as a small group (3 max) in a well-planted tank
>>and stay fairly small sized for a couple of years? (quite happy to
>>re-home with LFS once they've grown a bit). I've heard things about
>>yoyo's sucking on fish.. not keen to have that happen.
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>
>>Velvet
>
>
> I think Botia striata is more your size. I think newborn MTS can be
> found on the surface early in the morning, so a fish which would eat them
> from there would be useful too.

I actually do like the MTS (I have a few round-shelled something or
other but still non-plant-eating snails too) - but they're a bit
excessive now - must number in the hundreds in my tank (and the tank's
not *that* big). I'd quite like to keep a small population of them in
there (anyone do hire-a-loach?) - but I've tried algae wafers in jars,
cucumber, etc etc - the problem seems to be that they just potter about
eating whatever it is (not plants or veggie matter it seems) and aren't
interested in the snailbait!

Also wanting to keep a small population is what steers me away from
using chemical snail killer (that, and I really dislike putting chems of
any kind in) - the one's I've seen say you have to fish all the snails
out, which is kinda problematic in a heavily planted tank when many of
them live buried in the gravel for long periods!

Zebra loach sounds like a good candidate - are they good snail-munchers
(or even part-time munchers, since I'm not after total snail
eradication)? I'm wondering about their digging activities too - plants
are easily uprooted in my tank (none are ever weighted/potted) even if
they've got good root systems on, if the fish are determined enough
about it.

Are the zebra's territorial? I've flying foxes (dwarfs, which actually
do seem to be dwarfs - they've all stopped growing now and maxed out at
2") which constantly bicker about their patches, so it's possible the
zebra loaches might be on the receiving end of some of that occasionally
(though the f-foxes prefer to be on top of leaves/caves, not under/inside).

--


Velvet

[NetMax]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax wrote:
>
> > "Velvet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much,
and
> >>I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds
> >
> > of
> >
> >>mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm
thinking
> >>about reducing the numbers.
> >>
> >>Clown loach would seem to be a good way - I have three khuli's and
> >>they've never shown any interest in the snails. Mixed community
tank,
> >>with angels/gourami down to harlequin rasboro and cardinal tetras.
> >
> > Also
> >
> >>oto and somewhere there should be a dwarf bristlenose pl*c but can't
> >>find him at the moment.
> >>
> >>Am about to re-plant after high temp faulty heaterstat killed off
most
> >>of the plants, and was considering a snail-eating loach or two - the
> >>elimination of the snails means the filtration would then cope with
the
> >>bio-load of the loaches.
> >>
> >>The tank is a 28US gallon long, so size is somewhat of an issue - I
> >>believe clowns can get quite big and certainly sound like they'd
> >
> > outgrow
> >
> >>the tank.
> >>
> >>Are there any other alternatives to the clowns on the snail-eating
> >>front, that'd be happy as a small group (3 max) in a well-planted
tank
> >>and stay fairly small sized for a couple of years? (quite happy to
> >>re-home with LFS once they've grown a bit). I've heard things about
> >>yoyo's sucking on fish.. not keen to have that happen.
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>
> >>Velvet
> >
> >
> > I think Botia striata is more your size. I think newborn MTS can be
> > found on the surface early in the morning, so a fish which would eat
them
> > from there would be useful too.
>
> I actually do like the MTS (I have a few round-shelled something or
> other but still non-plant-eating snails too) - but they're a bit
> excessive now - must number in the hundreds in my tank (and the tank's
> not *that* big). I'd quite like to keep a small population of them in
> there (anyone do hire-a-loach?) - but I've tried algae wafers in jars,
> cucumber, etc etc - the problem seems to be that they just potter about
> eating whatever it is (not plants or veggie matter it seems) and aren't
> interested in the snailbait!

I like MTS as well. Where they don't work as well is where I have
bottom-feeders, as they will go after the food, and with a daily supply,
their population gets excessive.

> Also wanting to keep a small population is what steers me away from
> using chemical snail killer (that, and I really dislike putting chems
of
> any kind in) - the one's I've seen say you have to fish all the snails
> out, which is kinda problematic in a heavily planted tank when many of
> them live buried in the gravel for long periods!

Ditto on the chemical killers. They don't have any place in a planted
tank.

> Zebra loach sounds like a good candidate - are they good snail-munchers
> (or even part-time munchers, since I'm not after total snail
> eradication)? I'm wondering about their digging activities too -
plants
> are easily uprooted in my tank (none are ever weighted/potted) even if
> they've got good root systems on, if the fish are determined enough
> about it.

Because the MTS shells are so tough, the loaches will have to suck them
out (which is their usual technique). I can't comment on how good the
zerbras will be. There seems to be a lot of variability on how effective
loaches are, depending on species, alternate food supplies, diet and
training (some have to be trained to eat snails, but your crushing a few
shells to teach them what is inside). FWIW, Zebra loaches are the
smallest which are still quite carniverous.

> Are the zebra's territorial? I've flying foxes (dwarfs, which actually
> do seem to be dwarfs - they've all stopped growing now and maxed out at
> 2") which constantly bicker about their patches, so it's possible the
> zebra loaches might be on the receiving end of some of that
occasionally
> (though the f-foxes prefer to be on top of leaves/caves, not
under/inside).

Loaches tend to live in their own world, so most of their aggression is
towards each other. I don't think they would have serious conflicts
with your foxes. They would just ignore them, and the foxes would learn
to get out of their way.

Another technique to snail control is to stop feeding them. Only feed
what the fish will eat directly from the surface, making sure nothing
gets to the substrate. The snails adjusted their population up to the
food supply, so then they should adjust down to the food supply as well.
There are also fish and loaches which go after snail eggs. Being
livebearers, MTS don't leave any eggs around, but I imagine there has to
be many fish which would eat their fry. If I was to guess, I'd
experiment with Florida Flagfish, and Apistogrammas.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
>
>
> Velvet

[NetMax]

"Velvet" > wrote in message
...
> NetMax urote:
>
> > "Velvet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much,
and
> >>I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds
> >
> > of
> >
> >>mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm
thinking
> >>about reducing the numbers.
> >>
> >>Clown loach would seem to be a good way - I have three khuli's and
> >>they've never shown any interest in the snails. Mixed community
tank,
> >>with angels/gourami down to harlequin rasboro and cardinal tetras.
> >
> > Also
> >
> >>oto and somewhere there should be a dwarf bristlenose pl*c but can't
> >>find him at the moment.
> >>
> >>Am about to re-plant after high temp faulty heaterstat killed off
most
> >>of the plants, and was considering a snail-eating loach or two - the
> >>elimination of the snails means the filtration would then cope with
the
> >>bio-load of the loaches.
> >>
> >>The tank is a 28US gallon long, so size is somewhat of an issue - I
> >>believe clowns can get quite big and certainly sound like they'd
> >
> > outgrow
> >
> >>the tank.
> >>
> >>Are there any other alternatives to the clowns on the snail-eating
> >>front, that'd be happy as a small group (3 max) in a well-planted
tank
> >>and stay fairly small sized for a couple of years? (quite happy to
> >>re-home with LFS once they've grown a bit). I've heard things about
> >>yoyo's sucking on fish.. not keen to have that happen.
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>
> >>Velvet
> >
> >
> > I think Botia striata is more your size. I think newborn MTS can be
> > found on the surface early in the morning, so a fish which would eat
them
> > from there would be useful too.
>
> I actually do like the MTS (I have a few round-shelled something or
> other but still non-plant-eating snails too) - but they're a bit
> excessive now - must number in the hundreds in my tank (and the tank's
> not *that* big). I'd quite like to keep a small population of them in
> there (anyone do hire-a-loach?) - but I've tried algae wafers in jars,
> cucumber, etc etc - the problem seems to be that they just potter about
> eating whatever it is (not plants or veggie matter it seems) and aren't
> interested in the snailbait!

I like MTS as well. Where they don't work as well is where I have
bottom-feeders, as they will go after the food, and with a daily supply,
their population gets excessive.

> Also wanting to keep a small population is what steers me away from
> using chemical snail killer (that, and I really dislike putting chems
of
> any kind in) - the one's I've seen say you have to fish all the snails
> out, which is kinda problematic in a heavily planted tank when many of
> them live buried in the gravel for long periods!

Ditto on the chemical killers. They don't have any place in a planted
tank.

> Zebra loach sounds like a good candidate - are they good snail-munchers
> (or even part-time munchers, since I'm not after total snail
> eradication)? I'm wondering about their digging activities too -
plants
> are easily uprooted in my tank (none are ever weighted/potted) even if
> they've got good root systems on, if the fish are determined enough
> about it.

Because the MTS shells are so tough, the loaches will have to suck them
out (which is their usual technique). I can't comment on how good the
zerbras will be. There seems to be a lot of variability on how effective
loaches are, depending on species, alternate food supplies, diet and
training (some have to be trained to eat snails, but your crushing a few
shells to teach them what is inside). FWIW, Zebra loaches are the
smallest which are still quite carniverous.

> Are the zebra's territorial? I've flying foxes (dwarfs, which actually
> do seem to be dwarfs - they've all stopped growing now and maxed out at
> 2") which constantly bicker about their patches, so it's possible the
> zebra loaches might be on the receiving end of some of that
occasionally
> (though the f-foxes prefer to be on top of leaves/caves, not
under/inside).

Loaches tend to live in their own world, so most of their aggression is
towards each other. I don't think they would have serious conflicts
with your foxes. They would just ignore them, and the foxes would learn
to get out of their way.

Another technique to snail control is to stop feeding them. Only feed
what the fish will eat directly from the surface, making sure nothing
gets to the substrate. The snails adjusted their population up to the
food supply, so then they should adjust down to the food supply as well.
There are also fish and loaches which go after snail eggs. Being
livebearers, MTS don't leave any eggs around, but I imagine there has to
be many fish which would eat their fry. If I was to guess, I'd
experiment with Florida Flagfish, and Apistogrammas.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> --
>
>
> Velvet

[Geoff Kemp]

> Zebra loach sounds like a good candidate - are they good snail-munchers
> (or even part-time munchers, since I'm not after total snail
> eradication)? I'm wondering about their digging activities too - plants
> are easily uprooted in my tank (none are ever weighted/potted) even if
> they've got good root systems on, if the fish are determined enough
> about it.

I`ve got a pair of Sebras in my aquarium. They don`t seem too territorial
or aggressive in a tank of guppies, neons, bronze corys and zebra danios.
Mine haven`t total eradicated my snails, however the population crashed to
about 20% of it`s original size. Mine seem most active at night when I can
hear them dropping the shells on to the gravel.

They are quite playful little fish, and seem happy to co-exist along side
the rest of the inhabitants.

Also I`m suppose to have a bristle nosed catfish too, however mine has
dissappeared too. Speaking to my G/fs aunt, she said that her BFC
dissappeared for a while then re-appeared after several weeks. Anyone else
had this problem?

Geoff

[Velvet]

Geoff Kemp wrote:

>>Zebra loach sounds like a good candidate - are they good snail-munchers
>>(or even part-time munchers, since I'm not after total snail
>>eradication)? I'm wondering about their digging activities too - plants
>>are easily uprooted in my tank (none are ever weighted/potted) even if
>>they've got good root systems on, if the fish are determined enough
>>about it.
>
>
> I`ve got a pair of Sebras in my aquarium. They don`t seem too territorial
> or aggressive in a tank of guppies, neons, bronze corys and zebra danios.
> Mine haven`t total eradicated my snails, however the population crashed to
> about 20% of it`s original size. Mine seem most active at night when I can
> hear them dropping the shells on to the gravel.
>
> They are quite playful little fish, and seem happy to co-exist along side
> the rest of the inhabitants.
>
> Also I`m suppose to have a bristle nosed catfish too, however mine has
> dissappeared too. Speaking to my G/fs aunt, she said that her BFC
> dissappeared for a while then re-appeared after several weeks. Anyone else
> had this problem?
>
> Geoff
>
>

I found mine during the re-plant of the tank. He's tiny (still less
than an inch long) though when I see him always looks well-fed and in
good health. He's so small and bog-wood coloured, that he manages to
hide in plain sight a lot of the time.

He was hiding on the underside of the back of the bogwood ;-) I think
the lack of plants made for a tank that felt less 'safe' to him - now
it's replanted heavily I've seen him out a few times in the evenings again.

--


Velvet

[Marizel]

Are these the trumpet snails?
(http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/mayneedpoins.html)

If so, you could send a few my way if you want to get rid of them. :)

Mary


On Fri, 21 May 2004 15:26:16 GMT, Velvet >
wrote:

>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much, and
>I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds of
>mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm thinking
>about reducing the numbers.
>

[Velvet]

Marizel wrote:

> Are these the trumpet snails?
> (http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/mayneedpoins.html)
>
> If so, you could send a few my way if you want to get rid of them. :)
>
> Mary
>
>
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 15:26:16 GMT, Velvet >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much, and
>>I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now (hundreds of
>>mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely, but I'm thinking
>>about reducing the numbers.
>>

Yep, that looks like them (they certainly turn my gravel over).

I'm assuming you're in the UK?

I'll fish a dozen or so out and pop them in a bag with a bit of
water/gravel.

You can get hold of me at
(remove the obvious) to send a snailmail address to.

I'll probably send them out sunday night as long as I remember, but I'll
let you know once they've gone.

Just don't tell me you want me to take them back ;) They WILL multiply
and you WILL have hundreds if not thousands of them :-)

--


Velvet

[sophie]

In message >, Velvet
> writes
>Marizel wrote:
>
>> Are these the trumpet snails?
>> (http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/mayneedpoins.html)
>> If so, you could send a few my way if you want to get rid of them.
>>:)
>> Mary
>> On Fri, 21 May 2004 15:26:16 GMT, Velvet
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Planted tank, don't mind the snails but they're getting a bit much,
>>>and I know they're a significant percentage of the bio-load now
>>>(hundreds of mostly malaysian ones). Turn the gravel over nicely,
>>>but I'm thinking about reducing the numbers.
>>>
>
>Yep, that looks like them (they certainly turn my gravel over).
>
>I'm assuming you're in the UK?
>
>I'll fish a dozen or so out and pop them in a bag with a bit of
>water/gravel.
>
>You can get hold of me at
>(remove the obvious) to send a snailmail address to.
>
>I'll probably send them out sunday night as long as I remember, but
>I'll let you know once they've gone.
>
>Just don't tell me you want me to take them back ;) They WILL multiply
>and you WILL have hundreds if not thousands of them :-)

hmmm.
I had three.
a few weeks ago I could only find one (and this was during a full
remove-gravel-and-rinse-it-in-tankwater episode); I've even tried to
surprise them at night, but all that happens is that I upset my fish.
--
sophie