Power outages.......

[Tristan]

It may have come accross as sounding like a person is irresponsible if
they lived in the miami or any storm prone reigon and did not not
have a gen set, but thats not the way it was intended....Its just as
cheap and common as they are anymore and just having one in such an
area that is prone to storms etc where power can be out for long hours
or days or weeks, they sure can make the difference in living ease,
from a couple of different points of voiew, be it just to keep food
cold and have a cold drink or a cup of hot coffee or ability to use a
hot plate or micro wave to cook an egg or two and of course power up
a aquarium can really help a person beat the blues, when there is
absolutely no way to keep cold drinks or hot items etc ...Been there
done that already......Just the ability to turn on a light makes a big
difference in power outage times.....Fuel is not usually a problem as
much as some would beieve either....During hurricane Fredrick, gen
sets were pretty well needed as power was out for over a month, and no
gas stations could pump gas, but it was easy as pie to acquire fuel.
Same thing with David and Ivan and a few other major storms.


-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Tristan wrote:
> It may have come accross as sounding like a person is irresponsible if
> they lived in the miami or any storm prone reigon and did not not
> have a gen set, but thats not the way it was intended....Its just as
> cheap and common as they are anymore and just having one in such an
> area that is prone to storms etc where power can be out for long hours
> or days or weeks, they sure can make the difference in living ease,
> from a couple of different points of voiew, be it just to keep food
> cold and have a cold drink or a cup of hot coffee or ability to use a
> hot plate or micro wave to cook an egg or two and of course power up
> a aquarium can really help a person beat the blues, when there is
> absolutely no way to keep cold drinks or hot items etc ...Been there
> done that already......Just the ability to turn on a light makes a big
> difference in power outage times.....Fuel is not usually a problem as
> much as some would beieve either....During hurricane Fredrick, gen
> sets were pretty well needed as power was out for over a month, and no
> gas stations could pump gas, but it was easy as pie to acquire fuel.
> Same thing with David and Ivan and a few other major storms.
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Nicely said.....in fact I would view the human comforts in the end as
being the most important as they are often a matter of life and death
for those afflicted.....food and drink being the essentials of life let
alone the comfort and hope that they can give.....as this is a fish
group we can take as read that the welfare of our creatures is also of
big importance....and the joy of being able to do the best for our pets
also helps gets us through things......maybe a generator is the best
option for some but something as simple as a car battery (power
rationed) is cheap for those not able to afford the ideal....

My heart goes out to those of you that have to suffer in this way......I
am very lucky that it isn't an issue for me......

I hope that noone demeans themselves to troll this thread.....that would
make them the lowest of the low IMO.....

Gill

[Tristan]

One thing is for certian.

If the system no matter what it is is not automatic, its worthless if
no one is there to plug it up an dturn it on in the case of a power
outage. With a UPS its possible to have certain key componnents
plkugged into it. It may not power everything, but if just the key
items are used, it shuld run for a few hours unsupervised and
automatically. All those portable battery operated pumps, and gen
sets are worthless if no one is home to use them when the time comes.
Whole house generators are still a decent buy and are quite
resonable......Lowes and Home Depot have some good prices on fully
automatic gen sets, nfor under 4 grand if you own a home. Of course a
setup as such leaves out a typical home renter or aprtment
dweller....But its sure nice to have a large tank of LP outback hooked
up to a propane powered gen set that is fully automatic.

Then again a whole hose gen set is kind of useless in lots of
scenerios if there is no house left anymore as in hurricanes and
tornados. Its a decision each home owner/ aprtment dweller etc has to
make for themselves, and then there is always those that really could
care less as hell its only a fish.

On Sun, 04 Feb 2007 01:04:56 +0000, Gill Passman
> wrote:

<<>>Tristan wrote:
<<>>> It may have come accross as sounding like a person is irresponsible if
<<>>> they lived in the miami or any storm prone reigon and did not not
<<>>> have a gen set, but thats not the way it was intended....Its just as
<<>>> cheap and common as they are anymore and just having one in such an
<<>>> area that is prone to storms etc where power can be out for long hours
<<>>> or days or weeks, they sure can make the difference in living ease,
<<>>> from a couple of different points of voiew, be it just to keep food
<<>>> cold and have a cold drink or a cup of hot coffee or ability to use a
<<>>> hot plate or micro wave to cook an egg or two and of course power up
<<>>> a aquarium can really help a person beat the blues, when there is
<<>>> absolutely no way to keep cold drinks or hot items etc ...Been there
<<>>> done that already......Just the ability to turn on a light makes a big
<<>>> difference in power outage times.....Fuel is not usually a problem as
<<>>> much as some would beieve either....During hurricane Fredrick, gen
<<>>> sets were pretty well needed as power was out for over a month, and no
<<>>> gas stations could pump gas, but it was easy as pie to acquire fuel.
<<>>> Same thing with David and Ivan and a few other major storms.
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>
<<>>Nicely said.....in fact I would view the human comforts in the end as
<<>>being the most important as they are often a matter of life and death
<<>>for those afflicted.....food and drink being the essentials of life let
<<>>alone the comfort and hope that they can give.....as this is a fish
<<>>group we can take as read that the welfare of our creatures is also of
<<>>big importance....and the joy of being able to do the best for our pets
<<>>also helps gets us through things......maybe a generator is the best
<<>>option for some but something as simple as a car battery (power
<<>>rationed) is cheap for those not able to afford the ideal....
<<>>
<<>>My heart goes out to those of you that have to suffer in this way......I
<<>> am very lucky that it isn't an issue for me......
<<>>
<<>>I hope that noone demeans themselves to troll this thread.....that would
<<>>make them the lowest of the low IMO.....
<<>>
<<>>Gill



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Tristan wrote:
> One thing is for certian.
>
> If the system no matter what it is is not automatic, its worthless if
> no one is there to plug it up an dturn it on in the case of a power
> outage. With a UPS its possible to have certain key componnents
> plkugged into it.

Yes, a UPS has a limited life span.....just so long as the battery in
side lasts....if you are talking a long power outage then it wouldn't be
much use (I'm talking days not a couple of hours) - but as the first
line of defense then it would be a good starter....

> It may not power everything, but if just the key
> items are used, it shuld run for a few hours unsupervised and
> automatically.

Exactly....it buys the time for the owner to return home, if possible.....

> All those portable battery operated pumps, and gen
> sets are worthless if no one is home to use them when the time comes.

Agreed....

> Whole house generators are still a decent buy and are quite
> resonable......Lowes and Home Depot have some good prices on fully
> automatic gen sets, nfor under 4 grand if you own a home.

Still a lot of money.....of course it depends firstly on whether you
have the money or not....how often you anticipate power outages and how
much you value your fish stock and indeed your own needs....I've only
had one power outage here in the last 7 years of note....and the fish
survived - IIRC it was 10 hours overnight and fortunately in summer
rather than winter so the temps neither raised or dropped to dangerous
levels.....


> Then again a whole hose gen set is kind of useless in lots of
> scenerios if there is no house left anymore as in hurricanes and
> tornados.

Well if that happens both you and your fish are stuffed anyhows.....if
there is warning and again the money to get out fish theoretically you
could go with battery powered stuff for the journey.....but with the
amount of fish I have it wouldn't be practical.....

> Its a decision each home owner/ aprtment dweller etc has to
> make for themselves, and then there is always those that really could
> care less as hell its only a fish.

Yes...but there are people like that all over.....and not just about
their fish.....and also just because someone doesn't have the
environment of the money to invest in back up power systems doesn't mean
that they don't care.....I would not go advocating that someone was not
a responsible fish owner because they don't have a back up power
system....but then again this is an issue I don't really have to face
unlike those that live in areas of either severe weather or geological
problems (eg. earthquakes)....

Gill
>
>

[Larry Blanchard]

Gill Passman wrote:

> Yes, a UPS has a limited life span.....just so long as the battery in
> side lasts....if you are talking a long power outage then it wouldn't be
> much use (I'm talking days not a couple of hours) - but as the first
> line of defense then it would be a good starter....

I bought one that, according to its watt hour rating, should have powered a
couple of heaters and filters for two hours or more. I turned off the
circuit it was protecting to replace a receptacle and the UPS died after only
half an hour.

When I called the manufacturer (a major UPS maker) to question this I was told
that was normal, it would put out the rated capacity for half an hour, or it
would put out less for half an hour - that's just the way it worked.

Needless to say, I'm not impressed by a UPS for anything other than to let my
computer shut down gracefully.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Dick]

On Mon, 05 Feb 2007 08:34:49 -0800, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:

>Gill Passman wrote:
>
>> Yes, a UPS has a limited life span.....just so long as the battery in
>> side lasts....if you are talking a long power outage then it wouldn't be
>> much use (I'm talking days not a couple of hours) - but as the first
>> line of defense then it would be a good starter....
>
>I bought one that, according to its watt hour rating, should have powered a
>couple of heaters and filters for two hours or more. I turned off the
>circuit it was protecting to replace a receptacle and the UPS died after only
>half an hour.
>
>When I called the manufacturer (a major UPS maker) to question this I was told
>that was normal, it would put out the rated capacity for half an hour, or it
>would put out less for half an hour - that's just the way it worked.
>
>Needless to say, I'm not impressed by a UPS for anything other than to let my
>computer shut down gracefully.

The UPS is not a replacement for a continuous energy supply, but it
can save wear and tear on equipment caused by intermittent short
outages. A few seconds without power and the computer reboots. I
have one on my entertainment center and am very happy to not have the
television protected from interruptions or power surges. Five minutes
of protection to your fluorescent lights might be worth the cost.

Brief interruptions are problem the UPS can handle. If you anticipate
outages of longer duration, then other solutions must be used.

[Larry Blanchard]

Dick wrote:

> Brief interruptions are problem the UPS can handle.**If*you*anticipate
> outages of longer duration, then other solutions must be used.
>
>

I agree. The problem was that the packaging/advertising doesn't mention this.
Just a watthour or amphour figure. That's the way they're rated. So I
expected mine to last for a longer period if the drain was low. I was wrong.

--
It's turtles, all the way down

[Dick]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 09:07:37 -0800, Larry Blanchard
> wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>
>> Brief interruptions are problem the UPS can handle.**If*you*anticipate
>> outages of longer duration, then other solutions must be used.
>>
>>
>
>I agree. The problem was that the packaging/advertising doesn't mention this.
>Just a watthour or amphour figure. That's the way they're rated. So I
>expected mine to last for a longer period if the drain was low. I was wrong.

If you can use more accurate prediction of how long your UPS will
carry your tank load, buy a UPS by OPTI/UPS. It comes with management
software that will test your actual load and provide an estimate of
how long it can carry the actual load. In a test situation you could
turn the heater thermostat so the heater is on during the test. OPTI
has some large capacity UPS models.