Tall 30 gallon tank - is it good for any fish?

[Sarah]

I was browsing Ebay today and someone is selling a tall 30 gal hex
tank. It looks really neat, but knowing that fish need surface area -
are there any fish that could live comfortably in a tank like this.
Also, how does one feed the fish, clean the tank, etc. with a tank so
tall?

The specs for the tank are as follows:

Hexaround Tower Aquarium
14" x 14" x 70 1/2"H
30 gal. style

The seller is also throwing in a fluval 204 canister filter.

[NetMax]

"Sarah" > wrote in message
om...
> I was browsing Ebay today and someone is selling a tall 30 gal hex
> tank. It looks really neat, but knowing that fish need surface area -
> are there any fish that could live comfortably in a tank like this.
> Also, how does one feed the fish, clean the tank, etc. with a tank so
> tall?
>
> The specs for the tank are as follows:
>
> Hexaround Tower Aquarium
> 14" x 14" x 70 1/2"H
> 30 gal. style
>
> The seller is also throwing in a fluval 204 canister filter.

Might look good layered with some Pygmy corys at the bottom, some Neons
in the middle and Dwarf gouramis on top. Not sure if that would fill all
6 feet of it though ;~). Maybe with a really neat structure about 4 feet
tall inside, you could have lots of little caves for a variety of shrimp
to poke out of. Forget about gravel vacuuming, and getting light that
deep for plants will be.. challenging. The more I think about it, the
key is to drop in a structure with silk plants and caves. Your cleaning
crew would be Otos, shrimp, Bushynose and maybe some Nerita snails.

To compensate for the lack of a surface area, you either go with a very
low bio-load, or utilize remote surface area, such as with a wet/dry sump
somewhere. Would definitely be an interesting challenge to stock and
operate though. Very frustrating as well.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Sarah]

That does sound interesting. What could I use to build something like
that that would still be aquarium safe and not be in jeopardy of
falling apart? Some kind of trellis comes to mind, but is there
anything that won't leach into the water?


"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> "Sarah" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I was browsing Ebay today and someone is selling a tall 30 gal hex
> > tank. It looks really neat, but knowing that fish need surface area -
> > are there any fish that could live comfortably in a tank like this.
> > Also, how does one feed the fish, clean the tank, etc. with a tank so
> > tall?
> >
> > The specs for the tank are as follows:
> >
> > Hexaround Tower Aquarium
> > 14" x 14" x 70 1/2"H
> > 30 gal. style
> >
> > The seller is also throwing in a fluval 204 canister filter.
>
> Might look good layered with some Pygmy corys at the bottom, some Neons
> in the middle and Dwarf gouramis on top. Not sure if that would fill all
> 6 feet of it though ;~). Maybe with a really neat structure about 4 feet
> tall inside, you could have lots of little caves for a variety of shrimp
> to poke out of. Forget about gravel vacuuming, and getting light that
> deep for plants will be.. challenging. The more I think about it, the
> key is to drop in a structure with silk plants and caves. Your cleaning
> crew would be Otos, shrimp, Bushynose and maybe some Nerita snails.
>
> To compensate for the lack of a surface area, you either go with a very
> low bio-load, or utilize remote surface area, such as with a wet/dry sump
> somewhere. Would definitely be an interesting challenge to stock and
> operate though. Very frustrating as well.

[RedForeman ©®]

|| That does sound interesting. What could I use to build something
|| like
|| that that would still be aquarium safe and not be in jeopardy of
|| falling apart? Some kind of trellis comes to mind, but is there
|| anything that won't leach into the water?

Plastic lattis sheets, sold in 4'x8' sections, not that bad of an idea...
interesting to say the least..

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[AAAlias]

They are available at petSmart. Looks good for a reef tank.


"Sarah" > wrote in message
om...
> I was browsing Ebay today and someone is selling a tall 30 gal hex
> tank. It looks really neat, but knowing that fish need surface area -
> are there any fish that could live comfortably in a tank like this.
> Also, how does one feed the fish, clean the tank, etc. with a tank so
> tall?
>
> The specs for the tank are as follows:
>
> Hexaround Tower Aquarium
> 14" x 14" x 70 1/2"H
> 30 gal. style
>
> The seller is also throwing in a fluval 204 canister filter.

[NetMax]

I've been told that 'my you live in interesting times' is actually a
Chinese curse, and a 6 foot cylinder 14" in diameter would be something
of a curse to work on. I can only tell you what I would do, but my
sanity in regards to aquariums has been justifiably questioned many
times.

Buy a styrofoam dock billet (about 5' long, 24" by 24", about $50).
Standing on end, carve away material so that you are left with ...
something. Perhaps a winding cylindrical rockwork with caves and little
pockets for ferns and anubias.... perhaps make it look like the roots of
a tree... use your imagination. Structurally, you will need to drill a
hole through the structure down the centre (drilling a 50" hole will need
a special drill ;~), and install a threaded rod. The diameter of the
structure will be small enough that you need some extra 'backbone'
inside. At the top of the structure you have a large washer and a nut.
At the bottom of the structure is a mounting plate fastened to the same
threaded rod. With the aquarium empty, you silicone a base plate to the
glass bottom. The mounting plate on your structure 'snaps' into your
base plate by a 90 degree twist. Finish the exterior of your styrofoam
carving by brazing with a heat gun, two coats of latex paint, and several
coats of marine epoxy and fine sand. Ideally, the structure will weigh
(within 5 lbs) as much as the water it displaces. Your mounting plate
thickness can be used as sinker weight. Epoxy all exposed metal surfaces
which are not stainless steel.

Now if you really want to get fancy ;~) From the top of the structure,
have some silk plants running straight up to the tank's canopy. These
plants hide the wires to your heaters and your canister filter hoses.
Run your filter intake down the center of the structure, to exit (intake)
near the bottom (or drill the base for an intake). One heater should be
hidden near the bottom (heat rises) and a 2nd heater higher up (filter
flow is pushing water downwards). Filter return should have an air
intake venturi (boost your O2 a bit). Note that for the bottom heater,
you will need to change to a longer power cord, which means opening up a
submersible heater, which is a PITA to do, and voids any warranty.

For lighting, since conventional lighting would be inadequate, run some
wires (5Vdc) down inside the structure to power LEDs hidden in the back
of some of the structure's caves.

This was just half-baked ideas after only one coffee, and the more I
think about it, the more it sounds like 'interesting times' (the curse
;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sarah" > wrote in message
om...
> That does sound interesting. What could I use to build something like
> that that would still be aquarium safe and not be in jeopardy of
> falling apart? Some kind of trellis comes to mind, but is there
> anything that won't leach into the water?
>
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Sarah" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > I was browsing Ebay today and someone is selling a tall 30 gal hex
> > > tank. It looks really neat, but knowing that fish need surface
area -
> > > are there any fish that could live comfortably in a tank like this.
> > > Also, how does one feed the fish, clean the tank, etc. with a tank
so
> > > tall?
> > >
> > > The specs for the tank are as follows:
> > >
> > > Hexaround Tower Aquarium
> > > 14" x 14" x 70 1/2"H
> > > 30 gal. style
> > >
> > > The seller is also throwing in a fluval 204 canister filter.
> >
> > Might look good layered with some Pygmy corys at the bottom, some
Neons
> > in the middle and Dwarf gouramis on top. Not sure if that would fill
all
> > 6 feet of it though ;~). Maybe with a really neat structure about 4
feet
> > tall inside, you could have lots of little caves for a variety of
shrimp
> > to poke out of. Forget about gravel vacuuming, and getting light
that
> > deep for plants will be.. challenging. The more I think about it,
the
> > key is to drop in a structure with silk plants and caves. Your
cleaning
> > crew would be Otos, shrimp, Bushynose and maybe some Nerita snails.
> >
> > To compensate for the lack of a surface area, you either go with a
very
> > low bio-load, or utilize remote surface area, such as with a wet/dry
sump
> > somewhere. Would definitely be an interesting challenge to stock and
> > operate though. Very frustrating as well.

[RedForeman ©®]

|| This was just half-baked ideas after only one coffee, and the more I
|| think about it, the more it sounds like 'interesting times' (the
|| curse ;~).
|| --
|| www.NetMax.tk

sounds like it's a 'baked' idea, but a good one.... your imagination is very
vivid, I like it...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

[The Outcaste]

On Fri, 28 May 2004 10:19:16 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

>I've been told that 'my you live in interesting times' is actually a
>Chinese curse, and a 6 foot cylinder 14" in diameter would be something
>of a curse to work on. I can only tell you what I would do, but my
>sanity in regards to aquariums has been justifiably questioned many
>times.
>
>Buy a styrofoam dock billet (about 5' long, 24" by 24", about $50).
>Standing on end, carve away material so that you are left with ...
>something. Perhaps a winding cylindrical rockwork with caves and little
>pockets for ferns and anubias.... perhaps make it look like the roots of
>a tree... use your imagination. Structurally, you will need to drill a
>hole through the structure down the centre (drilling a 50" hole will need
>a special drill ;~), and install a threaded rod. The diameter of the
>structure will be small enough that you need some extra 'backbone'
>inside. At the top of the structure you have a large washer and a nut.
>At the bottom of the structure is a mounting plate fastened to the same
>threaded rod. With the aquarium empty, you silicone a base plate to the
>glass bottom. The mounting plate on your structure 'snaps' into your
>base plate by a 90 degree twist. Finish the exterior of your styrofoam
>carving by brazing with a heat gun, two coats of latex paint, and several
>coats of marine epoxy and fine sand. Ideally, the structure will weigh
>(within 5 lbs) as much as the water it displaces. Your mounting plate
>thickness can be used as sinker weight. Epoxy all exposed metal surfaces
>which are not stainless steel.
>
>Now if you really want to get fancy ;~) From the top of the structure,
>have some silk plants running straight up to the tank's canopy. These
>plants hide the wires to your heaters and your canister filter hoses.
>Run your filter intake down the center of the structure, to exit (intake)
>near the bottom (or drill the base for an intake). One heater should be
>hidden near the bottom (heat rises) and a 2nd heater higher up (filter
>flow is pushing water downwards). Filter return should have an air
>intake venturi (boost your O2 a bit). Note that for the bottom heater,
>you will need to change to a longer power cord, which means opening up a
>submersible heater, which is a PITA to do, and voids any warranty.
>
>For lighting, since conventional lighting would be inadequate, run some
>wires (5Vdc) down inside the structure to power LEDs hidden in the back
>of some of the structure's caves.
>
>This was just half-baked ideas after only one coffee, and the more I
>think about it, the more it sounds like 'interesting times' (the curse
>;~).

Rather than a threaded rod, what about this -- get a length of 3/4" or
1" copper tube, and "core" the Styrofoam (you can return the copper
and say you decided on plastic when done). Then insert either 1/2" or
3/4" PVC pipe coated with silicone to hold in place. Here's the
dimensions of the pipes:

Copper OD ID
3/4" .875 .785
1" 1.125 1.025
PVC
1/2" 0.840 0.608
3/4" 1.050 0.810

The OD is very close so it should work fairly well. You can also use
CPVC, which has the same dimensions as copper, but may be more
expensive.

Glue on fittings to give male threads at each end and adjust the
length so just the threads extend outside the structure. The nut and
washer on the top is replaced with an acrylic plate and a fitting to
adapter to the filter -- this way there is no metal to worry about.

A Tee on the bottom (or just inside the base) with a pipe running to
the edge of the structure will become the intake for the filter. The
mounting/ballast plate is sandwiched between fittings, or the pipe can
be screwed to a fitting that is either siliconed to the bottom or
fastened to the base plate.

If it's a glass tank I'd be a bit leery of drilling the bottom for
filters as in a tank that deep, they may have used tempered glass for
the bottom piece.

Rather than opening the heater for a longer cord, simply cut off the
plug and solder on an extension. Use 3 pieces of heat shrink tubing,
one for each wire, and a larger one over them all, then coat with a
bit of silicone to waterproof it. Be sure to maintain polarity if the
heater uses a polarized plug.

This sure does sound like "interesting times".

Jerry

[NetMax]

"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 28 May 2004 10:19:16 -0400, "NetMax"
> > bubbled forth the following:
>
> >I've been told that 'my you live in interesting times' is actually a
> >Chinese curse, and a 6 foot cylinder 14" in diameter would be
something
> >of a curse to work on. I can only tell you what I would do, but my
> >sanity in regards to aquariums has been justifiably questioned many
> >times.
> >
> >Buy a styrofoam dock billet (about 5' long, 24" by 24", about $50).
> >Standing on end, carve away material so that you are left with ...
> >something. Perhaps a winding cylindrical rockwork with caves and
little
> >pockets for ferns and anubias.... perhaps make it look like the roots
of
> >a tree... use your imagination. Structurally, you will need to drill
a
> >hole through the structure down the centre (drilling a 50" hole will
need
> >a special drill ;~), and install a threaded rod. The diameter of the
> >structure will be small enough that you need some extra 'backbone'
> >inside. At the top of the structure you have a large washer and a
nut.
> >At the bottom of the structure is a mounting plate fastened to the
same
> >threaded rod. With the aquarium empty, you silicone a base plate to
the
> >glass bottom. The mounting plate on your structure 'snaps' into your
> >base plate by a 90 degree twist. Finish the exterior of your
styrofoam
> >carving by brazing with a heat gun, two coats of latex paint, and
several
> >coats of marine epoxy and fine sand. Ideally, the structure will
weigh
> >(within 5 lbs) as much as the water it displaces. Your mounting plate
> >thickness can be used as sinker weight. Epoxy all exposed metal
surfaces
> >which are not stainless steel.
> >
> >Now if you really want to get fancy ;~) From the top of the
structure,
> >have some silk plants running straight up to the tank's canopy. These
> >plants hide the wires to your heaters and your canister filter hoses.
> >Run your filter intake down the center of the structure, to exit
(intake)
> >near the bottom (or drill the base for an intake). One heater should
be
> >hidden near the bottom (heat rises) and a 2nd heater higher up (filter
> >flow is pushing water downwards). Filter return should have an air
> >intake venturi (boost your O2 a bit). Note that for the bottom
heater,
> >you will need to change to a longer power cord, which means opening up
a
> >submersible heater, which is a PITA to do, and voids any warranty.
> >
> >For lighting, since conventional lighting would be inadequate, run
some
> >wires (5Vdc) down inside the structure to power LEDs hidden in the
back
> >of some of the structure's caves.
> >
> >This was just half-baked ideas after only one coffee, and the more I
> >think about it, the more it sounds like 'interesting times' (the curse
> >;~).

> Rather than a threaded rod, what about this -- get a length of 3/4" or
> 1" copper tube, and "core" the Styrofoam (you can return the copper
> and say you decided on plastic when done). Then insert either 1/2" or
> 3/4" PVC pipe coated with silicone to hold in place. Here's the
> dimensions of the pipes:

I like the idea of using a copper pipe to core the styrofoam. It would
be easy to sharpen or even serrate the edge if neccesary.

> Copper OD ID
> 3/4" .875 .785
> 1" 1.125 1.025
> PVC
> 1/2" 0.840 0.608
> 3/4" 1.050 0.810
>
> The OD is very close so it should work fairly well. You can also use
> CPVC, which has the same dimensions as copper, but may be more
> expensive.
>
> Glue on fittings to give male threads at each end and adjust the
> length so just the threads extend outside the structure. The nut and
> washer on the top is replaced with an acrylic plate and a fitting to
> adapter to the filter -- this way there is no metal to worry about.
>
> A Tee on the bottom (or just inside the base) with a pipe running to
> the edge of the structure will become the intake for the filter. The
> mounting/ballast plate is sandwiched between fittings, or the pipe can
> be screwed to a fitting that is either siliconed to the bottom or
> fastened to the base plate.

I really like the idea of the backbone doubling as the intake pipe for
the filter, but I'm sceptical, as polystyrene buoyancy is about 60 lbs
per cubic foot, and there has to be at least 1 cubic foot of material
pulling up on that mounting plate. The metal rod also adds some needed
weight. Properly siliconed, there would be no water ingress to the
threads inside the structure, so you only need to seal/coat the exposed
threads and nuts at the top & bottom. It sure would be nice to
incorporate the intake to the backbone though. Is there a hollow
food-safe inert plastic which could be securely fastened? Just silicone
does not inspire my confidence. PVC uses a special epoxy which reflows
the material. CPVC ? Bowflex has flexible supply lines for residencial.
Perhaps that could be incorporated to something?

> If it's a glass tank I'd be a bit leery of drilling the bottom for
> filters as in a tank that deep, they may have used tempered glass for
> the bottom piece.

Agreed.

> Rather than opening the heater for a longer cord, simply cut off the
> plug and solder on an extension. Use 3 pieces of heat shrink tubing,
> one for each wire, and a larger one over them all, then coat with a
> bit of silicone to waterproof it. Be sure to maintain polarity if the
> heater uses a polarized plug.

They actually have heat shrink tubing available with a waterproof sealer
inside which reflows when heated, making a perfect seal (sold for
submersible well pumps).
Having used that and also canabilizing submersible heaters, I'd say both
techniques work, though your extension is probably the better idea.

> This sure does sound like "interesting times".
>
> Jerry

heh heh, yeah interesting, like the first time you drop something in the
tank (algae magnet, algae scrub pad, pruning scissors, fishnet etc) and
you have to go in after it (70" deep). Or you have to lift the structure
for maintenance (needs a 140" ceiling height unless you tip the tank
over). Not as many 12 foot ceilings around as there used to be ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

[The Outcaste]

On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:00:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

<snipped for brevity>
>I really like the idea of the backbone doubling as the intake pipe for
>the filter, but I'm sceptical, as polystyrene buoyancy is about 60 lbs
>per cubic foot, and there has to be at least 1 cubic foot of material
>pulling up on that mounting plate. The metal rod also adds some needed
>weight. Properly siliconed, there would be no water ingress to the
>threads inside the structure, so you only need to seal/coat the exposed
>threads and nuts at the top & bottom. It sure would be nice to
>incorporate the intake to the backbone though. Is there a hollow
>food-safe inert plastic which could be securely fastened? Just silicone
>does not inspire my confidence. PVC uses a special epoxy which reflows
>the material. CPVC ? Bowflex has flexible supply lines for residencial.
>Perhaps that could be incorporated to something?

Hadn't thought about the buoyancy. The silicone might not hold. I was
envisioning the fittings on each end making the pipe a "threaded rod"
with acrylic panels on each end acting as washers. I think the PVC
solvent cement would be strong enough to hold the fittings on. IIRC,
Schedule 40 PVC is rated at 120 psi min. A 3/4" end cap would have an
area of 2.54 in, so at 120 psi should hold 305 lbs.

A couple of alternatives would be to use the metal rod in the middle
and run the intake tube in a separate hole -- it would not have any
stress on it then. Or uses pieces of slate imbedded in the sides to
form ledges and add weight. Or a big piece of slate on top just to
hold it all down.

CPVC is just PVC manufactured to copper pipe dimensions, same material
as PVC
>
>> If it's a glass tank I'd be a bit leery of drilling the bottom for
>> filters as in a tank that deep, they may have used tempered glass for
>> the bottom piece.
>
>Agreed.
>
>> Rather than opening the heater for a longer cord, simply cut off the
>> plug and solder on an extension. Use 3 pieces of heat shrink tubing,
>> one for each wire, and a larger one over them all, then coat with a
>> bit of silicone to waterproof it. Be sure to maintain polarity if the
>> heater uses a polarized plug.
>
>They actually have heat shrink tubing available with a waterproof sealer
>inside which reflows when heated, making a perfect seal (sold for
>submersible well pumps).

Was not aware of that, thanks for the tip!

>Having used that and also canabilizing submersible heaters, I'd say both
>techniques work, though your extension is probably the better idea.
>
>> This sure does sound like "interesting times".
>>
>> Jerry
>
>heh heh, yeah interesting, like the first time you drop something in the
>tank (algae magnet, algae scrub pad, pruning scissors, fishnet etc) and
>you have to go in after it (70" deep). Or you have to lift the structure
>for maintenance (needs a 140" ceiling height unless you tip the tank
>over). Not as many 12 foot ceilings around as there used to be ;~)

Lot's of gadgets available for picking up dropped items. If the tank
were bigger diameter it would be a good excuse to invest in scuba
equipment ;-)
As for the structure, ideally you would never have to remove it, but
this is far from an ideal world.

You'd also have a problem if you needed to net a fish -- getting a 4
or 6 ft long net into the tank (and even more fun, out) with an 8 ft
ceiling would be a interesting.

For a low ceiling, might be a good idea to devise a way to split the
structure in half, or maybe even thirds, so you can remove it a piece
at a time. Or convert to a vaulted ceiling ;-)

Jerry

[NetMax]

"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:00:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> > bubbled forth the following:
>
> <more snipping for brevity>
> I think the PVC
> solvent cement would be strong enough to hold the fittings on. IIRC,
> Schedule 40 PVC is rated at 120 psi min. A 3/4" end cap would have an
> area of 2.54 in, so at 120 psi should hold 305 lbs.

Is PVC solvent aquarium safe though? AFAIK, it's only used in DWV piping
and not supply line.

> A couple of alternatives would be to use the metal rod in the middle
> and run the intake tube in a separate hole -- it would not have any
> stress on it then. Or uses pieces of slate imbedded in the sides to
> form ledges and add weight. Or a big piece of slate on top just to
> hold it all down.

In this particular structure, I don't think you have the working surface
for multiple cores. I'm assuming you would want 360degree view on a
circular tank, so with a 14" external tank measurement, allowing 4"
between the structure and the glass, the structure widest point is under
6". This dimension also restricts what you can do with imbedded slate
along its length, and a large weigh at the top might be tricky (top
heavy).

<snip>
> >
> >heh heh, yeah interesting, like the first time you drop something in
the
> >tank (algae magnet, algae scrub pad, pruning scissors, fishnet etc)
and
> >you have to go in after it (70" deep). Or you have to lift the
structure
> >for maintenance (needs a 140" ceiling height unless you tip the tank
> >over). Not as many 12 foot ceilings around as there used to be ;~)
>
> Lot's of gadgets available for picking up dropped items. If the tank
> were bigger diameter it would be a good excuse to invest in scuba
> equipment ;-)

LOL, or hold your kid by the ankles ;~) The longest extensors I've seen
are about 3 feet long.

> As for the structure, ideally you would never have to remove it, but
> this is far from an ideal world.
>
> You'd also have a problem if you needed to net a fish -- getting a 4
> or 6 ft long net into the tank (and even more fun, out) with an 8 ft
> ceiling would be a interesting.
>
> For a low ceiling, might be a good idea to devise a way to split the
> structure in half, or maybe even thirds, so you can remove it a piece
> at a time. Or convert to a vaulted ceiling ;-)

Good idea, break the structure into 3 sections, each with locking base
plate and mounting plate. All we need is for someone to commision us to
build it now.
--
www.NetMax.tk


> Jerry
>

[Sarah]

How much do you want? :P

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> "The Outcaste" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:00:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> > > bubbled forth the following:
> >
> > <more snipping for brevity>
> > I think the PVC
> > solvent cement would be strong enough to hold the fittings on. IIRC,
> > Schedule 40 PVC is rated at 120 psi min. A 3/4" end cap would have an
> > area of 2.54 in, so at 120 psi should hold 305 lbs.
>
> Is PVC solvent aquarium safe though? AFAIK, it's only used in DWV piping
> and not supply line.
>
> > A couple of alternatives would be to use the metal rod in the middle
> > and run the intake tube in a separate hole -- it would not have any
> > stress on it then. Or uses pieces of slate imbedded in the sides to
> > form ledges and add weight. Or a big piece of slate on top just to
> > hold it all down.
>
> In this particular structure, I don't think you have the working surface
> for multiple cores. I'm assuming you would want 360degree view on a
> circular tank, so with a 14" external tank measurement, allowing 4"
> between the structure and the glass, the structure widest point is under
> 6". This dimension also restricts what you can do with imbedded slate
> along its length, and a large weigh at the top might be tricky (top
> heavy).
>
> <snip>
> > >
> > >heh heh, yeah interesting, like the first time you drop something in
> the
> > >tank (algae magnet, algae scrub pad, pruning scissors, fishnet etc)
> and
> > >you have to go in after it (70" deep). Or you have to lift the
> structure
> > >for maintenance (needs a 140" ceiling height unless you tip the tank
> > >over). Not as many 12 foot ceilings around as there used to be ;~)
> >
> > Lot's of gadgets available for picking up dropped items. If the tank
> > were bigger diameter it would be a good excuse to invest in scuba
> > equipment ;-)
>
> LOL, or hold your kid by the ankles ;~) The longest extensors I've seen
> are about 3 feet long.
>
> > As for the structure, ideally you would never have to remove it, but
> > this is far from an ideal world.
> >
> > You'd also have a problem if you needed to net a fish -- getting a 4
> > or 6 ft long net into the tank (and even more fun, out) with an 8 ft
> > ceiling would be a interesting.
> >
> > For a low ceiling, might be a good idea to devise a way to split the
> > structure in half, or maybe even thirds, so you can remove it a piece
> > at a time. Or convert to a vaulted ceiling ;-)
>
> Good idea, break the structure into 3 sections, each with locking base
> plate and mounting plate. All we need is for someone to commision us to
> build it now.

[NetMax]

I'll have to confirm with my accomplice Outcaste ;~), but for budgetary
analysis:

Material cost:
billet $60, epoxy $50, sand $5, hardware $10, silicon $10, three acrylic
base/mounting plates $55

Consumables:
latex paint $20, gloves brushes copper-corer $20

Labour:
design, drawing approval $10 per iteration (we will make the 1st draft
proposal for your review)
manufacturing (based on 3 coats of sealer, final 2 with sand), 20 hours

Shipping:
transport crate (material & labour) $60
delivery (FOB our dock, pre-paid UPS ground)

So $300 + manufacturing labour ($200?) + profit margin (2 cases of beer?)
= $550US (one drawing iteration).

Your responsibilities:
1) You approve design drawings.
2) You supply the tank, heaters, filter(s) and all peripherals not
directly associated with the structure.
3) You ship us the heaters for integration (or we source them locally and
add it to the bill).
4) You ship us any silk/plastic plants or wood (real or artificial) which
you want integrated into the structure (or we source it locally and add
it to the bill).
5) You provide the hose dimensions for interfacing the structure to your
filter.
6) You provide the exact internal dimensions of the aquarium (diameter &
height, or if hexagon, number of sides, side length and smallest internal
radius).
7) You are responsible to silicone the first mounting plate in the bottom
of the aquarium.
8) You are responsible to assembly the tri-sectional structure inside the
tank (lowered and twist-locked into each other).

Design rights are held by NetMax ©2004, and when I'm done I'll put a web
page up to document it for others to copy.

ps: Outcaste, what kind of beer do you like?
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Sarah" > wrote in message
m...
> How much do you want? :P
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
>...
> > "The Outcaste" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:00:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> > > > bubbled forth the following:
> > >
> > > <more snipping for brevity>
> > > I think the PVC
> > > solvent cement would be strong enough to hold the fittings on.
IIRC,
> > > Schedule 40 PVC is rated at 120 psi min. A 3/4" end cap would have
an
> > > area of 2.54 in, so at 120 psi should hold 305 lbs.
> >
> > Is PVC solvent aquarium safe though? AFAIK, it's only used in DWV
piping
> > and not supply line.
> >
> > > A couple of alternatives would be to use the metal rod in the
middle
> > > and run the intake tube in a separate hole -- it would not have any
> > > stress on it then. Or uses pieces of slate imbedded in the sides to
> > > form ledges and add weight. Or a big piece of slate on top just to
> > > hold it all down.
> >
> > In this particular structure, I don't think you have the working
surface
> > for multiple cores. I'm assuming you would want 360degree view on a
> > circular tank, so with a 14" external tank measurement, allowing 4"
> > between the structure and the glass, the structure widest point is
under
> > 6". This dimension also restricts what you can do with imbedded
slate
> > along its length, and a large weigh at the top might be tricky (top
> > heavy).
> >
> > <snip>
> > > >
> > > >heh heh, yeah interesting, like the first time you drop something
in
> > the
> > > >tank (algae magnet, algae scrub pad, pruning scissors, fishnet
etc)
> > and
> > > >you have to go in after it (70" deep). Or you have to lift the
> > structure
> > > >for maintenance (needs a 140" ceiling height unless you tip the
tank
> > > >over). Not as many 12 foot ceilings around as there used to be
;~)
> > >
> > > Lot's of gadgets available for picking up dropped items. If the
tank
> > > were bigger diameter it would be a good excuse to invest in scuba
> > > equipment ;-)
> >
> > LOL, or hold your kid by the ankles ;~) The longest extensors I've
seen
> > are about 3 feet long.
> >
> > > As for the structure, ideally you would never have to remove it,
but
> > > this is far from an ideal world.
> > >
> > > You'd also have a problem if you needed to net a fish -- getting a
4
> > > or 6 ft long net into the tank (and even more fun, out) with an 8
ft
> > > ceiling would be a interesting.
> > >
> > > For a low ceiling, might be a good idea to devise a way to split
the
> > > structure in half, or maybe even thirds, so you can remove it a
piece
> > > at a time. Or convert to a vaulted ceiling ;-)
> >
> > Good idea, break the structure into 3 sections, each with locking
base
> > plate and mounting plate. All we need is for someone to commision us
to
> > build it now.

[The Outcaste]

On Sat, 29 May 2004 09:32:28 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

>Is PVC solvent aquarium safe though? AFAIK, it's only used in DWV piping
>and not supply line.

I re-plumbed part of my old house with CPVC (PVC is not recommended
for temps over 140°F, CPVC is usable to 210°F). The primer and solvent
were safe for potable supplies *once dry* -- of course that means
human safe, which may not be fish safe. Ideally, when properly
applied, there will be no contact with the water inside the pipe;
however, just a little too much, and you will have solvent inside the
pipe. The only warning about this is that excess cement may break
loose and plug valves.

In an aquarium however, the water will be on both sides of the pipe,
so there will certainly be contact with the water.

I suspect it would be safe -- I'm sure there are quite a few people
who are using PVC siphons, overflows, etc who have solvent cemented
the pieces together and I haven't heard of any reports of problems. Of
course a lot of the systems are part of continuous water changing
systems which would prevent any toxins from building up.

As an added precaution, a thin layer of silicon over the joints once
dry should seal in any toxins.

Jerry

[The Outcaste]

<interspersed>
On Sun, 30 May 2004 18:07:24 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

>I'll have to confirm with my accomplice Outcaste ;~), but for budgetary
>analysis:
>
>Material cost:
>billet $60, epoxy $50, sand $5, hardware $10, silicon $10, three acrylic
>base/mounting plates $55
>
>Consumables:
>latex paint $20, gloves brushes copper-corer $20
>
>Labour:
>design, drawing approval $10 per iteration (we will make the 1st draft
>proposal for your review)
>manufacturing (based on 3 coats of sealer, final 2 with sand), 20 hours
>
>Shipping:
>transport crate (material & labour) $60
>delivery (FOB our dock, pre-paid UPS ground)

Or transportation expenses to hand deliver -- after all, we'll want to
see the finished installation first hand ;-) (in which case we will
take care of #7 and #8 below)
>
>So $300 + manufacturing labour ($200?) + profit margin (2 cases of beer?)
>= $550US (one drawing iteration).
>
>Your responsibilities:
>1) You approve design drawings.
>2) You supply the tank, heaters, filter(s) and all peripherals not
>directly associated with the structure.
>3) You ship us the heaters for integration (or we source them locally and
>add it to the bill).
>4) You ship us any silk/plastic plants or wood (real or artificial) which
>you want integrated into the structure (or we source it locally and add
>it to the bill).
>5) You provide the hose dimensions for interfacing the structure to your
>filter.
>6) You provide the exact internal dimensions of the aquarium (diameter &
>height, or if hexagon, number of sides, side length and smallest internal
>radius).

Also need exact distance from top of tank to ceiling and your desired
tank to structure minimum distance. Might be able to make it in 2
sections instead of three by angling the structure into the tank,
depending on diameter of structure and clearance above tank. Will also
need distance from tank to electrical outlet (to determine length of
heater cords).

>7) You are responsible to silicone the first mounting plate in the bottom
>of the aquarium.
>8) You are responsible to assembly the tri-sectional structure inside the
>tank (lowered and twist-locked into each other).
>
>Design rights are held by NetMax ©2004, and when I'm done I'll put a web
>page up to document it for others to copy.
>
>ps: Outcaste, what kind of beer do you like?

I have not found a beer I don't like :-)

For an everyday cheap beer, Pabst Blue Ribbon -- none of my friends
like it, which means they don't come over and drink my beer, they
bring their own, which I then drink :-O

I'm kind of partial to Widmer Brothers line of beers,
http://www.widmer.com/ -- but I have to keep it hidden when guests
come over.

One problem on this project -- I'm 2878.4 miles from Netmax's store,
so it'll be kinda hard to collaborate unless Sarah want's to cover my
traveling expenses.

I may have to rethink my plans for my two new aquariums. I'm planning
on building a stand to hold a 45, 67, and my 30 long tank, (48x18x12H,
48x18x18, 43x12x13.5). The guy who gave me the 30 long keeps telling
me I should build a 48x24x72H (about 360 US gallons). I could build
quite a structure in there...but I only have a 7ft ceiling -- maybe 60
high would work. Argh, decisions, decisions

Jerry

[Harry Muscle]

"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:00:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> > bubbled forth the following:
>
> <snipped for brevity>
SNIP
>
> CPVC is just PVC manufactured to copper pipe dimensions, same material
> as PVC
> >
SNIP

CPVC actually is something different than PVC. The C stands for
chlorinated. So it's Chlorinated PVC. Apparently they combine chlorine
with PVC to make a stronger plastic. The chlorine does NOT leach out, etc.
in case anyone is wondering ... at least that's what I've read so far. CPVC
actually uses it's own glue (ie: PVC glue won't work). So it's a bad idea
to mix these two plastics. Both PVC and CPVC are used for human water
supply, so they should be safe for fish tank use, especially given the fact
that I have yet to read one report of fish deaths due to PVC or CPVC pipe
work.

Harry

[The Outcaste]

On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:52:13 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
> bubbled forth the following:

>"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 29 May 2004 00:00:55 -0400, "NetMax"
>> > bubbled forth the following:
>>
>> <snipped for brevity>
>SNIP
>>
>> CPVC is just PVC manufactured to copper pipe dimensions, same material
>> as PVC
>> >
>SNIP
>
>CPVC actually is something different than PVC. The C stands for
>chlorinated. So it's Chlorinated PVC. Apparently they combine chlorine
>with PVC to make a stronger plastic. The chlorine does NOT leach out, etc.
>in case anyone is wondering ... at least that's what I've read so far. CPVC
>actually uses it's own glue (ie: PVC glue won't work). So it's a bad idea
>to mix these two plastics. Both PVC and CPVC are used for human water
>supply, so they should be safe for fish tank use, especially given the fact
>that I have yet to read one report of fish deaths due to PVC or CPVC pipe
>work.
>
>Harry
>
You're absolutely right Harry, different material -- I should have
read the rest of the paragraph. I stopped at the point it said CPVC is
same dimensions as copper pipe, and assumed the C was for copper.
Shouldn't type so late at night :-/

PVC=Poly-Vinyl-Chloride, CPVC=Chlorinated Poly-Vinyl-Chloride. AFAIK
no known issues with either in aquarium use.

However, try a google search on "pvc toxicity" for some lengthy
reading of the dangers of plastics.

Jerry

[Sarah]

Where exactly are you guys located anyway? I'm in Northern NJ. As
far as getting what you're building (or might build) in the tank -
it's empty so I could always tilt it on it's side.

I havne't actually picked it up yet. I'd be doing that next weekend.

Sarah


The Outcaste > wrote in message >...
> <interspersed>
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 18:07:24 -0400, "NetMax"
> > bubbled forth the following:
>
> >I'll have to confirm with my accomplice Outcaste ;~), but for budgetary
> >analysis:
> >
> >Material cost:
> >billet $60, epoxy $50, sand $5, hardware $10, silicon $10, three acrylic
> >base/mounting plates $55
> >
> >Consumables:
> >latex paint $20, gloves brushes copper-corer $20
> >
> >Labour:
> >design, drawing approval $10 per iteration (we will make the 1st draft
> >proposal for your review)
> >manufacturing (based on 3 coats of sealer, final 2 with sand), 20 hours
> >
> >Shipping:
> >transport crate (material & labour) $60
> >delivery (FOB our dock, pre-paid UPS ground)
>
> Or transportation expenses to hand deliver -- after all, we'll want to
> see the finished installation first hand ;-) (in which case we will
> take care of #7 and #8 below)
> >
> >So $300 + manufacturing labour ($200?) + profit margin (2 cases of beer?)
> >= $550US (one drawing iteration).
> >
> >Your responsibilities:
> >1) You approve design drawings.
> >2) You supply the tank, heaters, filter(s) and all peripherals not
> >directly associated with the structure.
> >3) You ship us the heaters for integration (or we source them locally and
> >add it to the bill).
> >4) You ship us any silk/plastic plants or wood (real or artificial) which
> >you want integrated into the structure (or we source it locally and add
> >it to the bill).
> >5) You provide the hose dimensions for interfacing the structure to your
> >filter.
> >6) You provide the exact internal dimensions of the aquarium (diameter &
> >height, or if hexagon, number of sides, side length and smallest internal
> >radius).
>
> Also need exact distance from top of tank to ceiling and your desired
> tank to structure minimum distance. Might be able to make it in 2
> sections instead of three by angling the structure into the tank,
> depending on diameter of structure and clearance above tank. Will also
> need distance from tank to electrical outlet (to determine length of
> heater cords).
>
> >7) You are responsible to silicone the first mounting plate in the bottom
> >of the aquarium.
> >8) You are responsible to assembly the tri-sectional structure inside the
> >tank (lowered and twist-locked into each other).
> >
> >Design rights are held by NetMax ©2004, and when I'm done I'll put a web
> >page up to document it for others to copy.
> >
> >ps: Outcaste, what kind of beer do you like?
>
> I have not found a beer I don't like :-)
>
> For an everyday cheap beer, Pabst Blue Ribbon -- none of my friends
> like it, which means they don't come over and drink my beer, they
> bring their own, which I then drink :-O
>
> I'm kind of partial to Widmer Brothers line of beers,
> http://www.widmer.com/ -- but I have to keep it hidden when guests
> come over.
>
> One problem on this project -- I'm 2878.4 miles from Netmax's store,
> so it'll be kinda hard to collaborate unless Sarah want's to cover my
> traveling expenses.
>
> I may have to rethink my plans for my two new aquariums. I'm planning
> on building a stand to hold a 45, 67, and my 30 long tank, (48x18x12H,
> 48x18x18, 43x12x13.5). The guy who gave me the 30 long keeps telling
> me I should build a 48x24x72H (about 360 US gallons). I could build
> quite a structure in there...but I only have a 7ft ceiling -- maybe 60
> high would work. Argh, decisions, decisions
>
> Jerry

[NetMax]

"Sarah" > wrote in message
om...
> Where exactly are you guys located anyway? I'm in Northern NJ. As
> far as getting what you're building (or might build) in the tank -
> it's empty so I could always tilt it on it's side.

I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and Outcaste is only 2878.4 miles from me
(which I'm presume to be in a southerly and/or western direction ;~)


> I havne't actually picked it up yet. I'd be doing that next weekend.
>
> Sarah
>
<snip>

> > >ps: Outcaste, what kind of beer do you like?
> >
> > I have not found a beer I don't like :-)
> >
> > For an everyday cheap beer, Pabst Blue Ribbon -- none of my friends
> > like it, which means they don't come over and drink my beer, they
> > bring their own, which I then drink :-O
> >
> > I'm kind of partial to Widmer Brothers line of beers,
> > http://www.widmer.com/ -- but I have to keep it hidden when guests
> > come over.

I'm partial to a light draught lager myself, unless it's paid for by
someone else ;~) In Canada, we also have some brews from Sleemans (sp?)
which are made without preservatives. I find that's easier on the head
later.

> > One problem on this project -- I'm 2878.4 miles from Netmax's store,
> > so it'll be kinda hard to collaborate unless Sarah want's to cover my
> > traveling expenses.

So far it's a virtual design, which I though would have actually
discouraged Sarah due to all the usual maintenance impracticalities
involved. Definitely not a beginner set-up.

> > I may have to rethink my plans for my two new aquariums. I'm planning
> > on building a stand to hold a 45, 67, and my 30 long tank,
(48x18x12H,
> > 48x18x18, 43x12x13.5). The guy who gave me the 30 long keeps telling
> > me I should build a 48x24x72H (about 360 US gallons). I could build
> > quite a structure in there...but I only have a 7ft ceiling -- maybe
60
> > high would work. Argh, decisions, decisions

Sounds like a setup I built with 4x4s, with two end-butted 32gs almost on
the floor and a 110g on top. It was my 2000 lb wall of water ;~).

If I had the right spot in my house, I'd be building a plywood tank.
Stand, tank and canopy integrated. Tank portion gets double walled with
plywood, using a single pane of glass, then the stand and remaining
visible tank sides get bricked (using that new really thin interlocking
facade brickwork).

I already have too many tanks though, my 110g is still empty waiting for
me to change the silicone on the front pane, I have two cracked 60gs
outside blocking my shed door, and a collection of smaller tanks in the
basement locker room. Small tanks are annoying. Size rules and I think
biodiversity stabilization really starts (in a practical sense) at 60g,
but the weight of these tanks is a bugger to deal with.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> >
> > Jerry

[The Outcaste]

On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:15:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

>"Sarah" > wrote in message
om...
>> Where exactly are you guys located anyway? I'm in Northern NJ. As
>> far as getting what you're building (or might build) in the tank -
>> it's empty so I could always tilt it on it's side.
>
>I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and Outcaste is only 2878.4 miles from me
>(which I'm presume to be in a southerly and/or western direction ;~)

Way west, and a little south, Portland, OR. The widmar link was a
clue, got to support the local brewers ®¿©
>
>> I havne't actually picked it up yet. I'd be doing that next weekend.
>>
>> Sarah

<snip>

>If I had the right spot in my house, I'd be building a plywood tank.
>Stand, tank and canopy integrated. Tank portion gets double walled with
>plywood, using a single pane of glass, then the stand and remaining
>visible tank sides get bricked (using that new really thin interlocking
>facade brickwork).

That's one of the options I'll considering. 1 1/2" plywood box floor
to ceiling 48x18x84 (inside measurements), with 1/4" oak plywood for
finish, secured to floor, wall and ceiling rafters. Glass of front and
one side. Bottom tank 12" deep (45 gal) supported on 2x45 base, middle
tank 18" (67 gal), and the top a shelf for the 30 long, both with 1"
angle iron as added support. The wall behind the tanks is shared with
a fireplace and a half-bath that hasn't been used in 20 years which
will become the filter room. Continuous water exchange via a whole
house carbon filter with the overflow plumbed to fill the toilet tank.
It's a 40 year old toilet, so it uses 4-5 gallons per flush, so 1
flush per day would allow a 20% water change per week without using
extra water.

I'll have to use a pump, either to provide pressure to fill the
toilet, or to pump the water to a ceiling mounted holding tank and
then gravity fill the toilet. It may cost more in electricity to pump
the water than the cost of the water I save, but the concept intrigues
me.

I'll have to check into the brick facade. When viewing my fireplace
the ends of the tanks will be on the left -- Making it look like they
are built into the fireplace may be an even better look than the oak.

>I already have too many tanks though, my 110g is still empty waiting for
>me to change the silicone on the front pane, I have two cracked 60gs
>outside blocking my shed door, and a collection of smaller tanks in the
>basement locker room. Small tanks are annoying. Size rules and I think
>biodiversity stabilization really starts (in a practical sense) at 60g,
>but the weight of these tanks is a bugger to deal with.

I do have a spot picked out for a 180 gallon tank. It'll have to wait
until I extend the house around that area though, which is still a few
years (and dollars) away.

Jerry

[NetMax]

"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2004 11:15:55 -0400, "NetMax"
> > bubbled forth the following:
>
> >"Sarah" > wrote in message
> om...
> >> Where exactly are you guys located anyway? I'm in Northern NJ. As
> >> far as getting what you're building (or might build) in the tank -
> >> it's empty so I could always tilt it on it's side.
> >
> >I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, and Outcaste is only 2878.4 miles from
me
> >(which I'm presume to be in a southerly and/or western direction ;~)
>
> Way west, and a little south, Portland, OR. The widmar link was a
> clue, got to support the local brewers ®¿©
> >
> >> I havne't actually picked it up yet. I'd be doing that next
weekend.
> >>
> >> Sarah
>
> <snip>
>
> >If I had the right spot in my house, I'd be building a plywood tank.
> >Stand, tank and canopy integrated. Tank portion gets double walled
with
> >plywood, using a single pane of glass, then the stand and remaining
> >visible tank sides get bricked (using that new really thin
interlocking
> >facade brickwork).
>
> That's one of the options I'll considering. 1 1/2" plywood box floor
> to ceiling 48x18x84 (inside measurements), with 1/4" oak plywood for
> finish, secured to floor, wall and ceiling rafters. Glass of front and
> one side. Bottom tank 12" deep (45 gal) supported on 2x45 base, middle
> tank 18" (67 gal), and the top a shelf for the 30 long, both with 1"
> angle iron as added support. The wall behind the tanks is shared with
> a fireplace and a half-bath that hasn't been used in 20 years which
> will become the filter room. Continuous water exchange via a whole
> house carbon filter with the overflow plumbed to fill the toilet tank.
> It's a 40 year old toilet, so it uses 4-5 gallons per flush, so 1
> flush per day would allow a 20% water change per week without using
> extra water.

LOL, marvelous idea to use your waste water to fill your toilet tank. I
remember seeing a design to maintain water levels at different heights
using rigid pipes in vertical loops with air holes drilled to provide
level references. You should be able to do a gravity feed from a tank at
a higher level. Then use a float valve to keep the tank (3 tanks) column
filled (or alternately, use the toilet's float valve to feed from your
top tank, and a 2nd float for the water column).

Yuour 3 tanks are 18", 18" and 12" tall. Typically, you want at least 8"
clearance for lighting and access (9 or 10" would be even better, and you
can go down to about 6" clearance if your lights are on rails which can
be pushed back out of the way for maintenance. I suggest you check the
ergonomics and sightlines of the setup. With some masking tape, locate
on your wall where each tank starts & ends, then check your access and
sightlines to your viewing area (couch or standing). This might have an
early influence on your design.

Will you have rear access to the structure? It's nice to have, but you
can work around it if all the plumbing is well planned. This includes
your supply, drain, leveling and air piping (if you are using a
compressor somewhere). Without rear access though, your filter locations
tend to consume prime front/bottom real-estate, and force cabinet
hardware somewhere.

> I'll have to use a pump, either to provide pressure to fill the
> toilet, or to pump the water to a ceiling mounted holding tank and
> then gravity fill the toilet. It may cost more in electricity to pump
> the water than the cost of the water I save, but the concept intrigues
> me.

For the function you need, a small air pump would trickle water up
several feet to a holding tank. Before magnetic impellers were invented,
powerfilters had a loop hose with an airstone near the bottom (just after
the loop coming upwards). This presumes you have air functions elsewhere
too, so it is just another tap. Otherwise, locate your holding tank
below your top tank level and gravity feed it. Ideally, your gravity
feed would backwash a filter ;~) I'd have to think about that design.

> I'll have to check into the brick facade. When viewing my fireplace
> the ends of the tanks will be on the left -- Making it look like they
> are built into the fireplace may be an even better look than the oak.
>
> >I already have too many tanks though, my 110g is still empty waiting
for
> >me to change the silicone on the front pane, I have two cracked 60gs
> >outside blocking my shed door, and a collection of smaller tanks in
the
> >basement locker room. Small tanks are annoying. Size rules and I
think
> >biodiversity stabilization really starts (in a practical sense) at
60g,
> >but the weight of these tanks is a bugger to deal with.
>
> I do have a spot picked out for a 180 gallon tank. It'll have to wait
> until I extend the house around that area though, which is still a few
> years (and dollars) away.

The common mistake is to build tanks into houses. Ideally, houses are
built around tanks. The tank location is determined by traffic, viewing
area, functionality, sun exposure, ambient temperature etc. Once the
prime location is determined, the rest of the house layout proceeds.
Then the architectural design incompases the structural reinforcement,
the electrical, DWV, supply lines, sink/maintenance area, storage
requirements etc.

I have a design for a basement tank which essentially drops a basement
inside an aquarium ;~) Your basement wall is your tank wall with a
varying front to back depth of 14" to 30" to an acrylic cylinder which
holds the air in the center of the room. The cylinder (which is
installed immediately after the basement foundation is poured) would be
of a sufficient diameter to accomodate a circular staircase from the
floor above, and chairs/couches radiused around the base of the
staircase. Note that as the pressure on the cylinder is inwards, the
material thickness needed is much less than if the cylinder was holding
water. Access is from the floor above, through the floor of your
maintenance/filter room. Many details on lighting, heating & filtration
will not be repeated here, but it does need to be well laid out.

If I built this, I'd probably leave the tank empty for a few years, while
I poured concrete and positioned rocks to build the right aquascape into
the basement wall. Once it was filled, you would probably not ever want
to drain it again ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Jerry
>