What eats copepods?

[George Patterson]

It's well publicized that live copepods are the only thing that Mandarins will
reliably eat. Well, I have a starving Mandarin in a 125 gallon tank with
established live rock. Prior to getting the Mandarin, I had several diatom
blooms, but not since he arrived. I also used to have quite a few isopods and
can't recall the last time I saw one. I've bought two shipments of copepods so
far to try to stock the tank. The Mandarin just gets thinner.

So, I'm looking at the other inhabitants of the tank. I have some Chromis, a
Firefish, a Court Jester goby, three cleaner shrimp, and a couple of feather
dusters. The dusters are also doing poorly and may have died. Are the shrimp
hunting the pods to extinction?

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Add Homonym]

George Patterson wrote:
> It's well publicized that live copepods are the only thing that
> Mandarins will reliably eat. Well, I have a starving Mandarin in a 125
> gallon tank with established live rock. Prior to getting the Mandarin, I
> had several diatom blooms, but not since he arrived. I also used to have
> quite a few isopods and can't recall the last time I saw one. I've
> bought two shipments of copepods so far to try to stock the tank. The
> Mandarin just gets thinner.
>
> So, I'm looking at the other inhabitants of the tank. I have some
> Chromis, a Firefish, a Court Jester goby, three cleaner shrimp, and a
> couple of feather dusters. The dusters are also doing poorly and may
> have died. Are the shrimp hunting the pods to extinction?
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.


Pretty much anything small and carnivorous/and or omnivorous will eat
pods from time to time (I have seen my ocelaris eat them, and I even had
a yellow tang come out and start gobbling once when I poured a bottle of
tiger pods in to my tank!)

Cleaner shrimp definitely COULD do it, But a firefish would be more
likely. They do like zooplankton. Same for Chromis. They ominvorous, and
will eat zooplankton when available. Even the court jester goby could be
the culprit - they eat small arthropods as well as algae.

I am doubting the main problem is that your pods are getting all eaten,
however. Something may be competeting with them for food in your tank,
thus preventing them from renewing or increasing their population.

Do you have much in the way of small bristle worms, or an overly
aggressive cleanup crew? You need to have a fair amount of deritus
present in the tank for the pods to thrive. Adding supplemental algae
will help as well.

You may want to try culturing pods - 1 single mandarin can clean out a
whole tank quite easily. I used to do this by having a 10 gal with some
small rocks in it which cycled, then added tiger pods to. I'd feed it a
pich or two of spirtulina flakes every other day, and a drop or two of
phytofeast daily. The pods took over in that tank. I'd simply swap small
rocks between that tank and my main tank to feed my dragonettes. (then
again, some of you may recall my dragonette STILL managed to die anyway
- but it certainly was not form lack of pods!)

[Yukon]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message news:gmGEh.1830$JB2.1365@trnddc07...
> It's well publicized that live copepods are the only thing that Mandarins will reliably eat. Well, I have a starving Mandarin in a
> 125 gallon tank with established live rock. Prior to getting the Mandarin, I had several diatom blooms, but not since he arrived.
> I also used to have quite a few isopods and can't recall the last time I saw one. I've bought two shipments of copepods so far to
> try to stock the tank. The Mandarin just gets thinner.
>
> So, I'm looking at the other inhabitants of the tank. I have some Chromis, a Firefish, a Court Jester goby, three cleaner shrimp,
> and a couple of feather dusters. The dusters are also doing poorly and may have died. Are the shrimp hunting the pods to
> extinction?
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

When the main lights come on in my tanks, I see the same thing every morning - pods
scurrying and fish eating them. The fish know this is prime pod time. Have you tried
Mark's idea? I might give it a try. http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

[KurtG]

Yukon wrote:
> When the main lights come on in my tanks, I see the same thing every morning - pods
> scurrying and fish eating them. The fish know this is prime pod time. Have you tried
> Mark's idea? I might give it a try. http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

I've seen this and considered it, but I just don't know how my mandarin
would beat out my damsels and pseudochromis.

Instead, I've been dropping a teaspoon of fish eggs (used to adorn sushi
rolls) into the tank in front of a power head. The fish, predictably,
go bananas and I count this as 1 of my 3 feedings. However, half of the
fair drops to the bottom of the tank on the plenum around the rocks. My
mandarin dutifully comes around and cleans up everything. I don't think
even the hermits get anything out of it. 4 oz of eggs ran my $6, and
lasts (I think) about a month with daily feedings. Lights-out feeding
would probably yield more for the mandarin.

I, frankly, don't know how my mandarin survives, but it doesn't seem to
be starving. It must be finding enough while I blow a $100 at a time
trying to get pods to take to my fug.

To answer george's question, I think blennies will eat pods as well. I
put a culture of pods in my main tank and I've never seen one of them
again, so who knows.

It's a great exercise in humility owning a tank.

--Kurt

[Wayne Sallee]

Yep, and/or set up a refugium.

I like the fish eggs idea that Kurt suggested. You
might want to give that a try.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Add Homonym wrote on 2/26/2007 3:09 PM:
> George Patterson wrote:
>> It's well publicized that live copepods are the only thing that
>> Mandarins will reliably eat. Well, I have a starving Mandarin in a 125
>> gallon tank with established live rock. Prior to getting the Mandarin,
>> I had several diatom blooms, but not since he arrived. I also used to
>> have quite a few isopods and can't recall the last time I saw one.
>> I've bought two shipments of copepods so far to try to stock the tank.
>> The Mandarin just gets thinner.
>>
>> So, I'm looking at the other inhabitants of the tank. I have some
>> Chromis, a Firefish, a Court Jester goby, three cleaner shrimp, and a
>> couple of feather dusters. The dusters are also doing poorly and may
>> have died. Are the shrimp hunting the pods to extinction?
>>
>> George Patterson
>> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
>> to anything.
>
>
> Pretty much anything small and carnivorous/and or omnivorous will eat
> pods from time to time (I have seen my ocelaris eat them, and I even had
> a yellow tang come out and start gobbling once when I poured a bottle of
> tiger pods in to my tank!)
>
> Cleaner shrimp definitely COULD do it, But a firefish would be more
> likely. They do like zooplankton. Same for Chromis. They ominvorous, and
> will eat zooplankton when available. Even the court jester goby could be
> the culprit - they eat small arthropods as well as algae.
>
> I am doubting the main problem is that your pods are getting all eaten,
> however. Something may be competeting with them for food in your tank,
> thus preventing them from renewing or increasing their population.
>
> Do you have much in the way of small bristle worms, or an overly
> aggressive cleanup crew? You need to have a fair amount of deritus
> present in the tank for the pods to thrive. Adding supplemental algae
> will help as well.
>
> You may want to try culturing pods - 1 single mandarin can clean out a
> whole tank quite easily. I used to do this by having a 10 gal with some
> small rocks in it which cycled, then added tiger pods to. I'd feed it a
> pich or two of spirtulina flakes every other day, and a drop or two of
> phytofeast daily. The pods took over in that tank. I'd simply swap small
> rocks between that tank and my main tank to feed my dragonettes. (then
> again, some of you may recall my dragonette STILL managed to die anyway
> - but it certainly was not form lack of pods!)
>
>

[Pszemol]

"KurtG" > wrote in message ...
> Instead, I've been dropping a teaspoon of fish eggs (used to adorn sushi
> rolls) into the tank in front of a power head. The fish, predictably,
> go bananas and I count this as 1 of my 3 feedings. However, half of the
> fair drops to the bottom of the tank on the plenum around the rocks. My
> mandarin dutifully comes around and cleans up everything. I don't think
> even the hermits get anything out of it. 4 oz of eggs ran my $6, and
> lasts (I think) about a month with daily feedings. Lights-out feeding
> would probably yield more for the mandarin.

Could you tell me more about this fish eggs product?
How do you buy it and where? Is is canned/dried/frozen?

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> Could you tell me more about this fish eggs product?
> How do you buy it and where? Is is canned/dried/frozen?

I'll get it for you (I'm at work), but it was at an oriental food store.
It was fresh and refrigerated (not frozen), and comes in a hard
plastic square container. The eggs are tiny, and I suspect would burst
if frozen.

Don't be disappointed if you need to go to a few stores to find them.
Japanese would be better, but I think I found mine at a Chinese market.
Don't bother calling unless you speak mandarin and a few other asian
languages.

My local Publix grocery store also has a sushi chef. I've been buying
nori off of him and I was going to tap him for eggs when I run out.
Nice guy.

--Kurt

[George Patterson]

Add Homonym wrote:

> Do you have much in the way of small bristle worms, or an overly
> aggressive cleanup crew? You need to have a fair amount of deritus
> present in the tank for the pods to thrive. Adding supplemental algae
> will help as well.

I've got quite a few bristle worms. I also have several blue-legged hermit crabs
and one large electric blue hermit. A bunch of little starfish and some sort of
small snail arrived as hitchhikers. I have lots of algae since I upgraded my
lighting; I'm using a phosphate reactor to try to cut it down some.

> You may want to try culturing pods - 1 single mandarin can clean out a
> whole tank quite easily. I used to do this by having a 10 gal with some
> small rocks in it which cycled, then added tiger pods to.

I'll look into that. I have a 10 gallon with a pair of goldfish in it
downstairs. Once it warms up enough to sneak those into someone's pond, that'll
give me something for pods. A 'fuge is way down the road right now.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:

> Instead, I've been dropping a teaspoon of fish eggs (used to adorn sushi
> rolls) into the tank in front of a power head.

There's a Chinese grocery down the street. I'll check it out today.

> To answer george's question, I think blennies will eat pods as well.

Ok. I don't have any of them. I'll keep it that way.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[George Patterson]

Yukon wrote:

> Have you tried
> Mark's idea? I might give it a try. http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_diner.html

Right at the moment, the Mandarin is the largest fish in my tank, so the bottle
idea isn't going to work. If his Mandarins like those pellets, though, maybe
mine will too. Beats $35 a whack for Tiger Pods. Thanks much for the link.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[KurtG]

KurtG wrote:
> I'll get it for you (I'm at work)

Capelin Roe - w/ brand name "Sushikko"

[Yukon]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message news:DgZEh.2521$QI4.1557@trnddc01...
> Add Homonym wrote:
>
>> Do you have much in the way of small bristle worms, or an overly aggressive cleanup crew? You need to have a fair amount of
>> deritus present in the tank for the pods to thrive. Adding supplemental algae will help as well.
>
> I've got quite a few bristle worms. I also have several blue-legged hermit crabs and one large electric blue hermit. A bunch of
> little starfish and some sort of small snail arrived as hitchhikers. I have lots of algae since I upgraded my lighting; I'm using
> a phosphate reactor to try to cut it down some.
>
>> You may want to try culturing pods - 1 single mandarin can clean out a whole tank quite easily. I used to do this by having a 10
>> gal with some small rocks in it which cycled, then added tiger pods to.
>
> I'll look into that. I have a 10 gallon with a pair of goldfish in it downstairs. Once it warms up enough to sneak those into
> someone's pond, that'll give me something for pods. A 'fuge is way down the road right now.
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

I think hermit crabs will decimate a pod population, since the crabs and pods are most active at night.

[Pszemol]

"KurtG" > wrote in message .. .
> KurtG wrote:
>> I'll get it for you (I'm at work)
>
> Capelin Roe - w/ brand name "Sushikko"

Thank you.

[KurtG]

Yukon wrote:
> I think hermit crabs will decimate a pod population, since the crabs and pods are most active at night.


Hm, hermit crabs were already on my bad list.

I did buy some blue legged hermits which seem much better behaved, and
haven't attacked any of my snails yet.

--Kurt

[Yukon]

"KurtG" > wrote in message ...
> Yukon wrote:
>> I think hermit crabs will decimate a pod population, since the crabs and pods are most active at night.
>
>
> Hm, hermit crabs were already on my bad list.
>
> I did buy some blue legged hermits which seem much better behaved, and haven't attacked any of my snails yet.
>
> --Kurt

I just think that since crabs are carnivores, and you see them reaching
and picking into rocks all the time, that they'd love pods.

[Wayne Sallee]

I don't think that hermit crabs will have any effect
on pod populations. I think they are too hard for
the hermits to catch.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Yukon wrote on 2/27/2007 1:50 PM:
>
> I think hermit crabs will decimate a pod population, since the crabs and pods are most active at night.
>
>

[Yukon]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message k.net...
>I don't think that hermit crabs will have any effect on pod populations. I think they are too hard for the hermits to catch.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Yukon wrote on 2/27/2007 1:50 PM:
>>
>> I think hermit crabs will decimate a pod population, since the crabs and pods are most active at night.

You could be right. I just thought that they could reach into some of the
nooks and cranies in the rock and pinch some out. It just seems that whenever
I have a higher crab population, the pods are much less noticible when the
lights come on. But it could just be that the pods hide more when they sense
more crabs around? Does that make any sense? Maybe I should just stop typing now.

[StringerBell]

> a Court Jester goby,

I`m a little late on this thread---sorry. The court jester goby is a
Rainford`s Goby, right? Does he constantly bite the substrate and sift
through his gills?

I`m pretty sure those guys are voracious pod eaters. I have a Hector`s Goby,
which is very closely related and shares the same behavior. When I
researched buying him I read somewhere that when disected, their stomach
contents revealed something like 70% copepods.

[StringerBell]

PS---

Ive had my Hectors Goby for over 5 months, and it`s never eaten any
"fishfood", frozen or otherwise. All Ive ever seen it do is pick off the
rock, filter sand and eat Hair algae when I had it (PAST TENSE BABY!).

Does the Rainford ever eat prepared foods?


"StringerBell" > wrote in message
...
>> a Court Jester goby,
>
> I`m a little late on this thread---sorry. The court jester goby is a
> Rainford`s Goby, right? Does he constantly bite the substrate and sift
> through his gills?
>
> I`m pretty sure those guys are voracious pod eaters. I have a Hector`s
> Goby, which is very closely related and shares the same behavior. When I
> researched buying him I read somewhere that when disected, their stomach
> contents revealed something like 70% copepods.
>
>

[George Patterson]

StringerBell wrote:

> I`m a little late on this thread---sorry. The court jester goby is a
> Rainford`s Goby, right? Does he constantly bite the substrate and sift
> through his gills?

Yep, that's the guy.

> I`m pretty sure those guys are voracious pod eaters.

Thanks. I can probably get store credit for him.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[George Patterson]

StringerBell wrote:

> Does the Rainford ever eat prepared foods?

I feed the other fish Mysis for the most part. I've never seen the Rainford's
eat any of it. I *have* seen him pick at the hair algae and sand.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.