Ich and tang...

[Pszemol]

I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.

I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.

I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
Do you think it is a good idea?

BTW
- I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?

[George Patterson]

Pszemol wrote:

> - I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
> in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
> any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?

Yes. Ich attacks the gills first, appearing on the body of the fish when there's
no more room on the gills. It's quite common for some of the fish to show no
symptoms at first, showing symptoms later as the parasite population grows.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Tristin]

WOW..this group sure has a lot of dumbasses associated with
it......shortucts, wow, pay the piper now or pay the piper
later........no such thing as a free luch.........as yo get out of it
what you put into it and that goes for not doing things right! duh!
I'm sure you'll get all kinds of usefull info on how to cure that ICH
magnet tang and rid your tank of ICH in the process all without taking
it out and putting it in a QT......This may make a good case study on
another marine group as to how not to do things!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:59:30 -0600, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

<<>>I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
<<>>to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
<<>>The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.
<<>>
<<>>I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
<<>>will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
<<>>cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.
<<>>
<<>>I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
<<>>but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
<<>>shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
<<>>an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
<<>>Do you think it is a good idea?
<<>>
<<>>BTW
<<>>- I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
<<>>in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
<<>>any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Add Homonym]

Pszemol wrote:
> I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
> to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
> The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.

White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite common in tangs -
not in most other fish)

>
> I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
> will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
> cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.
>
> I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
> but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
> shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
> an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
> Do you think it is a good idea?

MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata wurdermanni
was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up to it like he
expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was expected of him.

Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp - peppermint
shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no part of
it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.

>
> BTW
> - I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
> in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
> any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?

[Ocean Breeze]

Roy "Tristin" Hauer > wrote nothing of value to
anyone and was
promptly slapped down by a dead starfish:
wrote in message ...

Still trolling the groups... eh Tristan? Still making everyone as miserable
as you are..... what an ass!

> WOW..this group sure has a lot of dumbasses associated with
> it......shortucts, wow, pay the piper now or pay the piper
> later........no such thing as a free luch.........as yo get out of it
> what you put into it and that goes for not doing things right! duh!
> I'm sure you'll get all kinds of usefull info on how to cure that ICH
> magnet tang and rid your tank of ICH in the process all without taking
> it out and putting it in a QT......This may make a good case study on
> another marine group as to how not to do things!
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:59:30 -0600, "Pszemol" >
> wrote:
>
> <<>>I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
> <<>>to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
> <<>>The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.
> <<>>
> <<>>I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
> <<>>will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
> <<>>cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.
> <<>>
> <<>>I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
> <<>>but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
> <<>>shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
> <<>>an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
> <<>>Do you think it is a good idea?
> <<>>
> <<>>BTW
> <<>>- I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
> <<>>in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
> <<>>any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Pszemol]

"Add Homonym" > wrote in message ...
> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> common in tangs - not in most other fish)

White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.

> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata wurdermanni
> was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up to it like he
> expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was expected of him.
> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp - peppermint
> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no part of
> it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.

So peppermints are not as good, right?

[Add Homonym]

Pszemol wrote:
> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
>
>
> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>
>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up to
>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
>> expected of him.
>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp - peppermint
>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no part
>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
>
>
> So peppermints are not as good, right?

Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a job,
but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)

OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.

So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-

take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue to
help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate tank
and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are gone.

Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month or two:

treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and cross
yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.

I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe ich
without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this stuff,
and the problem was resolved.

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.

I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this, but
I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not really a
cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your shrimp
friends.

I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand layer.

--Kurt

[Pszemol]

"KurtG" > wrote in message .. .
> Pszemol wrote:
>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>
> I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this, but
> I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not really a
> cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your shrimp
> friends.
>
> I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
> amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand layer.

I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plenum

My tank is DSB and I am not going to vacuum fine sand out...
Vacuuming would not work.

[Tristin]

At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
on what to do.....

I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still fits
the description of a plenum............duh!

Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> wrote:

<<>>Pszemol wrote:
<<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
<<>>> ...
<<>>>
<<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
<<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
<<>>>
<<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
<<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up to
<<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
<<>>>> expected of him.
<<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp - peppermint
<<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no part
<<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
<<>>
<<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a job,
<<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
<<>>
<<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
<<>>
<<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
<<>>
<<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
<<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
<<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue to
<<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
<<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate tank
<<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are gone.
<<>>
<<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month or two:
<<>>
<<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and cross
<<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
<<>>
<<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
<<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe ich
<<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this stuff,
<<>>and the problem was resolved.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Wayne Sallee]

No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the
parasite likes to attach to calcium carbonate, in
fact it has been shown that a tank with no calcium
carbonate material, will greatly if not completely
prevent the cycle of ich.

But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint
shrimp. They will clean some, but get some cleaner
shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy, and has no
other stress factors it will heal up just fine with
some cleaner shrimp in there.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 2/27/2007 3:48 PM:
> "KurtG" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>>
>> I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this,
>> but I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not
>> really a cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your
>> shrimp friends.
>>
>> I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
>> amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand
>> layer.
>
> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plenum
>
> My tank is DSB and I am not going to vacuum fine sand out...
> Vacuuming would not work.

[Peter Pan]

With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here and
berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me genius,
do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you just get
off acting like a ****ing asshole?

"Tristin" > wrote in message
...
> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
> on what to do.....
>
> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still fits
> the description of a plenum............duh!
>
> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ...
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up
to
> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
peppermint
> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no
part
> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>
> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a
job,
> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>
> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> <<>>
> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>
> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue
to
> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate tank
> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are
gone.
> <<>>
> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month or
two:
> <<>>
> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and
cross
> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>
> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe
ich
> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this
stuff,
> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristin]

Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan" >
wrote:

<<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here and
<<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me genius,
<<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you just get
<<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
<<>>
<<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
...
<<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
<<>>> on what to do.....
<<>>>
<<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
<<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still fits
<<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
<<>>>
<<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
<<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
<<>>>
<<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
<<>>> > wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
<<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
<<>>> <<>>> ...
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
<<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
<<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up
<<>>to
<<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
<<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
<<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
<<>>peppermint
<<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no
<<>>part
<<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a
<<>>job,
<<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
<<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
<<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue
<<>>to
<<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
<<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate tank
<<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are
<<>>gone.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month or
<<>>two:
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and
<<>>cross
<<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
<<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe
<<>>ich
<<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this
<<>>stuff,
<<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Peter Pan]

It's a combination of both: I know you were probably beaten up as a child by
everyone on the playground because you never learned to work and play well
with others. Lets face it, no one ever likes the nerdy kid and the nerdy kid
was you. This left you with an inferior complex. You had no one to play
with, no friends , not even the family dog wanted to be near you. So you
compensated. You dove into academics where you accelerated. Still not being
appreciated for your intellect and still being beaten up by your peers you
sought an outlet. You discovered a Cyber world where no one could harm you
physically. It was then you decided you could finally strike back at those
you deemed inferior to your intellect and not have to worry about getting
your asskicked.
It is in the Cyber world where you strive for acceptance. But even in here
no one likes you and yes, probably all of us want to kick your ass.

What does the future holds for you? You will probably meet , if you haven't
already done so your cyber wife and where you will have countless hours of
cyber sex. All in all, you need to get out of your parent's basement get a
job. move out of their house and start a life of you own; a real life not
one in the cyber world.



"Tristin" > wrote in message
...
> Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan" >
> wrote:
>
> <<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here
and
> <<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
genius,
> <<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
just get
> <<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> <<>>
> <<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
> <<>>> on what to do.....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> <<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
fits
> <<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> <<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> <<>>> > wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> <<>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> <<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
going up
> <<>>to
> <<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
was
> <<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> <<>>peppermint
> <<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
no
> <<>>part
> <<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good
a
> <<>>job,
> <<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
fish,
> <<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
with
> <<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
blue
> <<>>to
> <<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
hurt.
> <<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
seperate tank
> <<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
are
> <<>>gone.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
month or
> <<>>two:
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
and
> <<>>cross
> <<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
product.
> <<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
dthe
> <<>>ich
> <<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
this
> <<>>stuff,
> <<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Peter Pan wrote:
> It's a combination of both: I know you were probably beaten up as a child by
> everyone on the playground because you never learned to work and play well
> with others. Lets face it, no one ever likes the nerdy kid and the nerdy kid
> was you. This left you with an inferior complex. You had no one to play
> with, no friends , not even the family dog wanted to be near you. So you
> compensated. You dove into academics where you accelerated. Still not being
> appreciated for your intellect and still being beaten up by your peers you
> sought an outlet. You discovered a Cyber world where no one could harm you
> physically. It was then you decided you could finally strike back at those
> you deemed inferior to your intellect and not have to worry about getting
> your asskicked.
> It is in the Cyber world where you strive for acceptance. But even in here
> no one likes you and yes, probably all of us want to kick your ass.
>
> What does the future holds for you? You will probably meet , if you haven't
> already done so your cyber wife and where you will have countless hours of
> cyber sex. All in all, you need to get out of your parent's basement get a
> job. move out of their house and start a life of you own; a real life not
> one in the cyber world.
>
>
>
> "Tristin" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
>>

Ok I wasn't going to get involved, but hey Peter, what are you at
here.?....either this post is an autobiography or a cheap attempt at
psycho analysis when you haven't even bothered to garner the
facts......the question, although almost certainly construed as a little
abusive did not warrant this torrent from you....however, if you want
this group to become a target for the troll....you sure just went and
gave it enough to eat for days to come....

Gill

[Ocean Breeze]

Roy "Tristin" Hauer stalker of old women and disabled men
> wrote nothing of value or interest to anyone
and was promptly slapped down by a dead fluke: wrote in message
...
> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
> on what to do.....

More slander and stalking of your victims Roy? You need help. Get back into
treatment at the VA. They can help you. We can't!

>
> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still fits
> the description of a plenum............duh!
>
> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ...
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up
> to
> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> peppermint
> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no
> part
> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>
> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a
> job,
> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>
> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> <<>>
> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>
> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue
> to
> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate tank
> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are
> gone.
> <<>>
> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month or
> two:
> <<>>
> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and
> cross
> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>
> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe
> ich
> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this
> stuff,
> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Reefer~Madness]

"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
. ..
> With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here and
> berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
> genius,
> do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you just
> get
> off acting like a ****ing asshole?

He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for the moment.
He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond group,
destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was in treatment
at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.

Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is semi-literate, yet
belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself up into
something he'll never be.... sad really.

>
> "Tristin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
>> on what to do.....
>>
>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still fits
>> the description of a plenum............duh!
>>
>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
>> > wrote:
>>
>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
>> <<>>> ...
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up
> to
>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
>> <<>>>> expected of him.
>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> peppermint
>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no
> part
>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
>> <<>>
>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a
> job,
>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
>> <<>>
>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
>> <<>>
>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
>> <<>>
>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue
> to
>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate
>> tank
>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are
> gone.
>> <<>>
>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month
>> or
> two:
>> <<>>
>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and
> cross
>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
>> <<>>
>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe
> ich
>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this
> stuff,
>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
>>
>>
>>
>> -------
>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>
>

[Ocean Breeze]

"Tristin" >wrote nothing of value or interest to
anyone and was
promptly slapped down by a dead starfish: in message
...
> Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!

Get back in treatment Roy "Tristan" Hauer!!!!!! No one here can help you.
We're fish keepers, not psychiatrists trained to deal with obsessions and
mental disorders.


> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan" >
> wrote:
>
> <<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here
> and
> <<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
> genius,
> <<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
> just get
> <<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> <<>>
> <<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
> ...
> <<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
> <<>>> on what to do.....
> <<>>>
> <<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> <<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
> fits
> <<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> <<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> <<>>> > wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> <<>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> <<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
> going up
> <<>>to
> <<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
> was
> <<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> <<>>peppermint
> <<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
> no
> <<>>part
> <<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good
> a
> <<>>job,
> <<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
> fish,
> <<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
> with
> <<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
> blue
> <<>>to
> <<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
> hurt.
> <<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> seperate tank
> <<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
> are
> <<>>gone.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
> month or
> <<>>two:
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
> and
> <<>>cross
> <<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
> product.
> <<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
> dthe
> <<>>ich
> <<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
> this
> <<>>stuff,
> <<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristin]

Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock puppets.
At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little and
knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and just
as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!



On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
> wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
. ..
<<>>> With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here and
<<>>> berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
<<>>> genius,
<<>>> do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you just
<<>>> get
<<>>> off acting like a ****ing asshole?
<<>>
<<>>He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for the moment.
<<>>He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond group,
<<>>destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was in treatment
<<>>at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.
<<>>
<<>>Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is semi-literate, yet
<<>>belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself up into
<<>>something he'll never be.... sad really.
<<>>
<<>>>
<<>>> "Tristin" > wrote in message
<<>>> ...
<<>>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
<<>>>> on what to do.....
<<>>>>
<<>>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
<<>>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still fits
<<>>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
<<>>>>
<<>>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
<<>>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
<<>>>>
<<>>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
<<>>>> > wrote:
<<>>>>
<<>>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
<<>>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
<<>>>> <<>>> ...
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
<<>>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
<<>>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept going up
<<>>> to
<<>>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what was
<<>>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
<<>>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
<<>>> peppermint
<<>>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants no
<<>>> part
<<>>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good a
<<>>> job,
<<>>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
<<>>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
<<>>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue
<<>>> to
<<>>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
<<>>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate
<<>>>> tank
<<>>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are
<<>>> gone.
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a month
<<>>>> or
<<>>> two:
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank and
<<>>> cross
<<>>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
<<>>>> <<>>
<<>>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite" product.
<<>>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille dthe
<<>>> ich
<<>>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added this
<<>>> stuff,
<<>>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>> -------
<<>>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>>
<<>>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Ocean Breeze]

"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
...
> It's a combination of both: I know you were probably beaten up as a child
> by
> everyone on the playground because you never learned to work and play well
> with others.

He'll only play well with others if they kiss his ass, agree with everything
he says, never question him and act worshipful! He must feel he's admired
and in control of every group he infests like a roach in a project. Anyone
else comes in for attacks, being slandered, put down, belittled and called
childish names. He needs to get back into treatment for his mental "issues."

Lets face it, no one ever likes the nerdy kid and the nerdy kid
> was you. This left you with an inferior complex. You had no one to play
> with, no friends , not even the family dog wanted to be near you. So you
> compensated. You dove into academics where you accelerated. Still not
> being
> appreciated for your intellect and still being beaten up by your peers you
> sought an outlet. You discovered a Cyber world where no one could harm you
> physically. It was then you decided you could finally strike back at those
> you deemed inferior to your intellect and not have to worry about getting
> your asskicked.
> It is in the Cyber world where you strive for acceptance. But even in here
> no one likes you and yes, probably all of us want to kick your ass.
>
> What does the future holds for you? You will probably meet , if you
> haven't
> already done so your cyber wife and where you will have countless hours of
> cyber sex. All in all, you need to get out of your parent's basement get a
> job. move out of their house and start a life of you own; a real life not
> one in the cyber world.
>
>
>
> "Tristin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
>>
>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> <<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in
>> here
> and
>> <<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
> genius,
>> <<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
> just get
>> <<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
>> <<>>
>> <<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> <<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
>> knowledge
>> <<>>> on what to do.....
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
>> <<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
> fits
>> <<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
>> <<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
>> <<>>> > wrote:
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
>> <<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
>> <<>>> <<>>> ...
>> <<>>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
>> <<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
>> <<>>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>> <<>>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
>> <<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
> going up
>> <<>>to
>> <<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
> was
>> <<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
>> <<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
>> <<>>peppermint
>> <<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
> no
>> <<>>part
>> <<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
>> <<>>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as
>> good
> a
>> <<>>job,
>> <<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
> fish,
>> <<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
> with
>> <<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
> blue
>> <<>>to
>> <<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
> hurt.
>> <<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> seperate tank
>> <<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
> are
>> <<>>gone.
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
> month or
>> <<>>two:
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
> and
>> <<>>cross
>> <<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
>> <<>>> <<>>
>> <<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
> product.
>> <<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
> dthe
>> <<>>ich
>> <<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
> this
>> <<>>stuff,
>> <<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>>
>> <<>>> -------
>> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>> <<>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------
>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>
>

[Ocean Breeze]

"Gill Passman" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Pan wrote:
>> It's a combination of both: I know you were probably beaten up as a child
>> by
>> everyone on the playground because you never learned to work and play
>> well
>> with others. Lets face it, no one ever likes the nerdy kid and the nerdy
>> kid
>> was you. This left you with an inferior complex. You had no one to play
>> with, no friends , not even the family dog wanted to be near you. So you
>> compensated. You dove into academics where you accelerated. Still not
>> being
>> appreciated for your intellect and still being beaten up by your peers
>> you
>> sought an outlet. You discovered a Cyber world where no one could harm
>> you
>> physically. It was then you decided you could finally strike back at
>> those
>> you deemed inferior to your intellect and not have to worry about getting
>> your asskicked.
>> It is in the Cyber world where you strive for acceptance. But even in
>> here
>> no one likes you and yes, probably all of us want to kick your ass.
>>
>> What does the future holds for you? You will probably meet , if you
>> haven't
>> already done so your cyber wife and where you will have countless hours
>> of
>> cyber sex. All in all, you need to get out of your parent's basement get
>> a
>> job. move out of their house and start a life of you own; a real life not
>> one in the cyber world.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Tristin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
>>>
>
> Ok I wasn't going to get involved, but hey Peter, what are you at
> here.?....either this post is an autobiography or a cheap attempt at
> psycho analysis when you haven't even bothered to garner the
> facts......the question, although almost certainly construed as a little
> abusive did not warrant this torrent from you....however, if you want this
> group to become a target for the troll....you sure just went and gave it
> enough to eat for days to come....
>
> Gill

And you keep defending the abusive TROLL known as Roy "Tristan" Hauer like a
neurotic mother hen, encouraging his abuse of others on these groups. One
wonders what's in it for you.........

[Tristin]

Well Carol Gulley, unfortunately your noet evena fish keeper. YOu lost
that credability inthe aquaria groups, hence your need to cross post
all the posts made to disrupt the groups that no longer pay you any
attention you little old attention whore! Pityfull you have ot kjeep
movin gon to these other gorups just to get some poor asshole to hold
a cyber conversation with you and your sock puppets......pityfull is
what you are...must suck to be named Carol Gulley...as well as a loon
and usenet kook!



On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:45:14 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
> wrote:

<<>>
<<>>"Tristin" >wrote nothing of value or interest to
<<>>anyone and was
<<>>promptly slapped down by a dead starfish: in message
...
<<>>> Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
<<>>
<<>>Get back in treatment Roy "Tristan" Hauer!!!!!! No one here can help you.
<<>>We're fish keepers, not psychiatrists trained to deal with obsessions and
<<>>mental disorders.
<<>>
<<>>
<<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan" >
<<>>> wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here
<<>>> and
<<>>> <<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
<<>>> genius,
<<>>> <<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
<<>>> just get
<<>>> <<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
<<>>> ...
<<>>> <<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
<<>>> <<>>> on what to do.....
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
<<>>> <<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
<<>>> fits
<<>>> <<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
<<>>> <<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
<<>>> <<>>> > wrote:
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>> ...
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
<<>>> going up
<<>>> <<>>to
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
<<>>> was
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
<<>>> <<>>peppermint
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
<<>>> no
<<>>> <<>>part
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good
<<>>> a
<<>>> <<>>job,
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
<<>>> fish,
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
<<>>> with
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
<<>>> blue
<<>>> <<>>to
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
<<>>> hurt.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
<<>>> seperate tank
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
<<>>> are
<<>>> <<>>gone.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
<<>>> month or
<<>>> <<>>two:
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
<<>>> and
<<>>> <<>>cross
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
<<>>> product.
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
<<>>> dthe
<<>>> <<>>ich
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
<<>>> this
<<>>> <<>>stuff,
<<>>> <<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> -------
<<>>> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Gill Passman]

Ocean Breeze wrote:

> And you keep defending the abusive TROLL known as Roy "Tristan" Hauer
> like a neurotic mother hen, encouraging his abuse of others on these
> groups. One wonders what's in it for you.........
>
Just one comment Carol.....please learn to read and actually understand
what people are saying before jumping in with your
pre-conceptions....hey, might do you a world of good when you actually
post on topic on other groups where you actually have some knowledge of
the subject under discussion.....But if you choose to abuse people and
troll groups then I guess that is your decision....

Gill

[Ocean Breeze]

"Gill Passman" > wrote nothing of value or
interest to anyone and was
promptly slapped down by a dead koi in message
...
> Ocean Breeze wrote:
>
>> And you keep defending the abusive TROLL known as Roy "Tristan" Hauer
>> like a neurotic mother hen, encouraging his abuse of others on these
>> groups. One wonders what's in it for you.........
>>
> Just one comment Carol.....please learn to read and actually understand
> what people are saying before jumping in with your pre-conceptions....hey,
> might do you a world of good when you actually post on topic on other
> groups where you actually have some knowledge of the subject under
> discussion.....But if you choose to abuse people and troll groups then I
> guess that is your decision....
>
> Gill

Defending and encouraging mentally ill foul mouth trolls is absurd and self
defeating. You lower yourself to their level. Your friend Roy "Tristan"
Hauer is a known troll going back several years. Learn to use Google.

[Ocean Breeze]

Roy "Tristin" Hauer known troll and net-stalker of women and disabled
> wrote nothing of value or interest to anyone
and was promptly slapped down by a dead seabass in message
...

There is help for you at the VA hosp. They will get you back on your meds
and make your life worthwhile again. Your mind will be free of your
victims......... It must sure suck to be Roy Hauer.

> Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock puppets.
> At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little and
> knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
> there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
> your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and just
> as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!
>
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
> . ..
> <<>>> With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in
> here and
> <<>>> berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
> <<>>> genius,
> <<>>> do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
> just
> <<>>> get
> <<>>> off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> <<>>
> <<>>He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for the
> moment.
> <<>>He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond
> group,
> <<>>destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was in
> treatment
> <<>>at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.
> <<>>
> <<>>Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is semi-literate,
> yet
> <<>>belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself up into
> <<>>something he'll never be.... sad really.
> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> "Tristin" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ...
> <<>>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
> knowledge
> <<>>>> on what to do.....
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> <<>>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
> fits
> <<>>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> <<>>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> <<>>>> > wrote:
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> <<>>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> <<>>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
> going up
> <<>>> to
> <<>>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
> was
> <<>>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> <<>>> peppermint
> <<>>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
> no
> <<>>> part
> <<>>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as
> good a
> <<>>> job,
> <<>>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
> fish,
> <<>>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
> with
> <<>>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
> blue
> <<>>> to
> <<>>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
> hurt.
> <<>>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> seperate
> <<>>>> tank
> <<>>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
> are
> <<>>> gone.
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
> month
> <<>>>> or
> <<>>> two:
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
> and
> <<>>> cross
> <<>>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
> product.
> <<>>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
> dthe
> <<>>> ich
> <<>>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
> this
> <<>>> stuff,
> <<>>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> -------
> <<>>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[George Patterson]

Add Homonym wrote:

> OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.

Yep.

> take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected fish,
> give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water, with
> formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne blue to
> help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't hurt.
> After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a seperate tank
> and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms are gone.

I don't use the dip - just go straight to the hospital tank dosed with copper
sulphate. I prefer "CopperSafe." Also get a decent copper test kit that works
with the type of copper treatment you're using (I use "FasTest" with
"CopperSafe"). If you're going with CopperSafe, add half as much as the
directions say to add, wait an hour or two, and test the concentration. Add more
in stages until you get up to the recommended dosage of .15 to .2 ppm. Maintain
that level for two weeks and then quit adding copper.

The freshwater dip is a bit satisfying, though. The parasites swell up and sort
of explode. On the other hand, the fish isn't exactly comfortable either.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Ocean Breeze]

Roy "Tristin" Hauer, foul mouth troll and net-stalker of old women and
disabled > wrote nothing of value or interest
to anyone and was promptly slapped down by a dead frog wrote in message
...

There is help for you at the VA hospital. You can be treated but not cured.
Get back on your meds and get your victims, Carol, Tara, Ed, Gail and others
out of your head before you flip your cookies and kill someone.


> Well Carol Gulley, unfortunately your noet evena fish keeper. YOu lost
> that credability inthe aquaria groups, hence your need to cross post
> all the posts made to disrupt the groups that no longer pay you any
> attention you little old attention whore! Pityfull you have ot kjeep
> movin gon to these other gorups just to get some poor asshole to hold
> a cyber conversation with you and your sock puppets......pityfull is
> what you are...must suck to be named Carol Gulley...as well as a loon
> and usenet kook!
>
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:45:14 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Tristin" >wrote nothing of value or
> interest to
> <<>>anyone and was
> <<>>promptly slapped down by a dead starfish: in message
> ...
> <<>>> Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
> <<>>
> <<>>Get back in treatment Roy "Tristan" Hauer!!!!!! No one here can help
> you.
> <<>>We're fish keepers, not psychiatrists trained to deal with obsessions
> and
> <<>>mental disorders.
> <<>>
> <<>>
> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan"
> >
> <<>>> wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come
> in here
> <<>>> and
> <<>>> <<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell
> me
> <<>>> genius,
> <<>>> <<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or
> you
> <<>>> just get
> <<>>> <<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ...
> <<>>> <<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
> knowledge
> <<>>> <<>>> on what to do.....
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a
> plenum
> <<>>> <<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its
> still
> <<>>> fits
> <<>>> <<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off
> on and
> <<>>> <<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> <<>>> <<>>> > wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in
> message
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his
> body.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a
> Lysmata
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis.
> Kept
> <<>>> going up
> <<>>> <<>>to
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea
> what
> <<>>> was
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint
> shrimp -
> <<>>> <<>>peppermint
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang
> wants
> <<>>> no
> <<>>> <<>>part
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just
> as good
> <<>>> a
> <<>>> <<>>job,
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like
> cryptocaryon.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the
> infected
> <<>>> fish,
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank
> water,
> <<>>> with
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some
> methe;yne
> <<>>> blue
> <<>>> <<>>to
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and
> won't
> <<>>> hurt.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> <<>>> seperate tank
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all
> symptoms
> <<>>> are
> <<>>> <<>>gone.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out
> for a
> <<>>> month or
> <<>>> <<>>two:
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main
> tank
> <<>>> and
> <<>>> <<>>cross
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop
> Parisite"
> <<>>> product.
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had
> kille
> <<>>> dthe
> <<>>> <<>>ich
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then
> added
> <<>>> this
> <<>>> <<>>stuff,
> <<>>> <<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[deShrimp]

"Tristin" aka Roy Hauer troll and net-stalker of women
> wrote in message
...
> Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock puppets.
> At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little and
> knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
> there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
> your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and just
> as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!

Must be a real bitch to be named Roy Tristan Hauer. I own TRistan., Carol
posts
and has him trained to reply.....It never fails. Carol "OWNS" TRistan aka
Roy Hauer..........and he dances to the tune Carol bangs out on her
drum! Poor goofy loon and illiterate fool that he is! She pushes buttons
and Roy Tristan Hauer
jumps.......hahahahaha then again he is just a spastic little attention
whore anyhow......

hahahahahah.......... hehe ......... haha

>
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
> . ..
> <<>>> With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in
> here and
> <<>>> berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
> <<>>> genius,
> <<>>> do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
> just
> <<>>> get
> <<>>> off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> <<>>
> <<>>He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for the
> moment.
> <<>>He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond
> group,
> <<>>destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was in
> treatment
> <<>>at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.
> <<>>
> <<>>Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is semi-literate,
> yet
> <<>>belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself up into
> <<>>something he'll never be.... sad really.
> <<>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> "Tristin" > wrote in message
> <<>>> ...
> <<>>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
> knowledge
> <<>>>> on what to do.....
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> <<>>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
> fits
> <<>>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> <<>>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> <<>>>> > wrote:
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> <<>>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> <<>>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
> going up
> <<>>> to
> <<>>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
> was
> <<>>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> <<>>> peppermint
> <<>>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
> no
> <<>>> part
> <<>>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as
> good a
> <<>>> job,
> <<>>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
> fish,
> <<>>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
> with
> <<>>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
> blue
> <<>>> to
> <<>>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
> hurt.
> <<>>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> seperate
> <<>>>> tank
> <<>>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
> are
> <<>>> gone.
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
> month
> <<>>>> or
> <<>>> two:
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
> and
> <<>>> cross
> <<>>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
> product.
> <<>>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
> dthe
> <<>>> ich
> <<>>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
> this
> <<>>> stuff,
> <<>>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>>
> <<>>>> -------
> <<>>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[StringerBell]

I`m a little confused, are there different kinds of "Ich"? Is there a kind
that is not contagious?

When I introduced a super-juvie Hippo Tang 4 months ago, it broke out in
white spots for a few days, but it went away on its own after soaking its
food in garlic for a few days. Ive never seen my other fish have any
symptoms (knock on wood).

Ive read many similiar posts in reef forums. There seems to be a lot of
people who have Tangs break out in "Ich"--- but then do water changes or use
the lights less and their Tangs also recover W/O any dipping or medication.

[George Patterson]

StringerBell wrote:
> I`m a little confused, are there different kinds of "Ich"? Is there a kind
> that is not contagious?

There's Oodinium and Cryptocaryon. Oodinium is usually called "velvet disease"
and Crypto is usually called "ich", but both are sometimes called "ich." They
are both contagious. With velvet, the parasites are pinpoint size. With crypto,
they're pinhead size. According to authors like Fenner, Cryptocaryon is ich.

> Ive read many similiar posts in reef forums. There seems to be a lot of
> people who have Tangs break out in "Ich"--- but then do water changes or use
> the lights less and their Tangs also recover W/O any dipping or medication.

The stage when the parasites are attached to the fish is the adult breeding
stage. The adults then drop off and lay eggs in the substrate or live rock. When
the eggs hatch, the parasites enter a free-swimming stage. Those that encounter
fish during this stage attach themselves to the fish and become adults. The
entire cycle takes about 3 weeks. The eggs can be introduced in food such as
seaweed or on live rock. Juveniles and adults usually come in on parasitized
fish or the water in the bags containing new fish.

Some people think their fish has recovered when the adults drop off and find
that they have another "outbreak" two weeks later. In other cases, something
like a cleaner shrimp population manages to kill enough of the things to break
the cycle.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Tristin]

Here Carol, you mistakingly posted these in a freshwater group.
On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:41:56 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
> wrote:

<<>>
<<>>Roy "Tristin" Hauer > wrote nothing of value to
<<>>anyone and was
<<>>promptly slapped down by a dead starfish:
<<>>wrote in message ...
<<>>
<<>>Still trolling the groups... eh Tristan? Still making everyone as miserable
<<>>as you are..... what an ass!
<<>>
<<>>> WOW..this group sure has a lot of dumbasses associated with
<<>>> it......shortucts, wow, pay the piper now or pay the piper
<<>>> later........no such thing as a free luch.........as yo get out of it
<<>>> what you put into it and that goes for not doing things right! duh!
<<>>> I'm sure you'll get all kinds of usefull info on how to cure that ICH
<<>>> magnet tang and rid your tank of ICH in the process all without taking
<<>>> it out and putting it in a QT......This may make a good case study on
<<>>> another marine group as to how not to do things!
<<>>>
<<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:59:30 -0600, "Pszemol" >
<<>>> wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
<<>>> <<>>to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
<<>>> <<>>The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
<<>>> <<>>will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
<<>>> <<>>cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
<<>>> <<>>but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
<<>>> <<>>shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
<<>>> <<>>an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
<<>>> <<>>Do you think it is a good idea?
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>BTW
<<>>> <<>>- I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
<<>>> <<>>in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
<<>>> <<>>any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Tristin]

also known as Ocean Breeze...posted this message in the wrong group as
usual.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:34:09 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
> wrote:

<<>>
<<>>Roy "Tristin" Hauer known troll and net-stalker of women and disabled
> wrote nothing of value or interest to anyone
<<>>and was promptly slapped down by a dead seabass in message
...
<<>>
<<>>There is help for you at the VA hosp. They will get you back on your meds
<<>>and make your life worthwhile again. Your mind will be free of your
<<>>victims......... It must sure suck to be Roy Hauer.
<<>>
<<>>> Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock puppets.
<<>>> At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little and
<<>>> knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
<<>>> there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
<<>>> your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and just
<<>>> as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
<<>>> > wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
<<>>> . ..
<<>>> <<>>> With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in
<<>>> here and
<<>>> <<>>> berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
<<>>> <<>>> genius,
<<>>> <<>>> do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
<<>>> just
<<>>> <<>>> get
<<>>> <<>>> off acting like a ****ing asshole?
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for the
<<>>> moment.
<<>>> <<>>He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond
<<>>> group,
<<>>> <<>>destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was in
<<>>> treatment
<<>>> <<>>at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is semi-literate,
<<>>> yet
<<>>> <<>>belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself up into
<<>>> <<>>something he'll never be.... sad really.
<<>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>> "Tristin" > wrote in message
<<>>> <<>>> ...
<<>>> <<>>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
<<>>> knowledge
<<>>> <<>>>> on what to do.....
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
<<>>> <<>>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
<<>>> fits
<<>>> <<>>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
<<>>> <<>>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
<<>>> <<>>>> > wrote:
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> ...
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
<<>>> going up
<<>>> <<>>> to
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
<<>>> was
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
<<>>> <<>>> peppermint
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
<<>>> no
<<>>> <<>>> part
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as
<<>>> good a
<<>>> <<>>> job,
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
<<>>> fish,
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
<<>>> with
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
<<>>> blue
<<>>> <<>>> to
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
<<>>> hurt.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
<<>>> seperate
<<>>> <<>>>> tank
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
<<>>> are
<<>>> <<>>> gone.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
<<>>> month
<<>>> <<>>>> or
<<>>> <<>>> two:
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
<<>>> and
<<>>> <<>>> cross
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
<<>>> product.
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
<<>>> dthe
<<>>> <<>>> ich
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
<<>>> this
<<>>> <<>>> stuff,
<<>>> <<>>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>>
<<>>> <<>>>> -------
<<>>> <<>>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>> <<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>> -------
<<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[deShrimp]

"Tristin" >
wrote nothing of value or interest to anyone and was
promptly slapped down by a dead snake in message
...
> also known as Ocean Breeze...posted this message in the wrong group as
> usual.

Seek help before you blow your stack and kill someone. No one here can help
you with your obsessions with Carol, Gail, Tara, Ed, Peter and the
rest.......

>
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:34:09 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>Roy "Tristin" Hauer known troll and net-stalker of women and disabled
> > wrote nothing of value or interest to
> anyone
> <<>>and was promptly slapped down by a dead seabass in message
> ...
> <<>>
> <<>>There is help for you at the VA hosp. They will get you back on your
> meds
> <<>>and make your life worthwhile again. Your mind will be free of your
> <<>>victims......... It must sure suck to be Roy Hauer.
> <<>>
> <<>>> Dream on Carol oh lord and ruler of the million and one sock
> puppets.
> <<>>> At least my son does not prowl the alleyways looking for a little
> and
> <<>>> knock up the vermin that inhabit those regions......need I say more
> <<>>> there Carol? Even the motorcycle gangs have no need for folks of
> <<>>> your caliber anymore.....Sure sucks to be named Carol Gulley! and
> just
> <<>>> as bad to be a pecker eater named peter!
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:42:19 -0600, "Reefer~Madness"
> <<>>> > wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>"Peter Pan" > wrote in message
> <<>>> . ..
> <<>>> <<>>> With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come
> in
> <<>>> here and
> <<>>> <<>>> berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby.
> Tell me
> <<>>> <<>>> genius,
> <<>>> <<>>> do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others
> or you
> <<>>> just
> <<>>> <<>>> get
> <<>>> <<>>> off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>He gets off acting like an ass! It makes him feel superior for
> the
> <<>>> moment.
> <<>>> <<>>He pulls the same **** on the other aquarium groups and the pond
> <<>>> group,
> <<>>> <<>>destroying and disrupting one group after another. The man was
> in
> <<>>> treatment
> <<>>> <<>>at the VA in AL but wont stay on his meds. This is the result.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>Roy "Tristan" Hauer doesn't even have a HS diploma, is
> semi-literate,
> <<>>> yet
> <<>>> <<>>belittles and puts down everyone in his quest to build himself
> up into
> <<>>> <<>>something he'll never be.... sad really.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>> "Tristin" > wrote in message
> <<>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>> <<>>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient
> <<>>> knowledge
> <<>>> <<>>>> on what to do.....
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a
> plenum
> <<>>> <<>>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its
> still
> <<>>> fits
> <<>>> <<>>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off
> on and
> <<>>> <<>>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> <<>>> <<>>>> > wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in
> message
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> ...
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his
> body.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a
> Lysmata
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis.
> Kept
> <<>>> going up
> <<>>> <<>>> to
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no
> idea what
> <<>>> was
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint
> shrimp -
> <<>>> <<>>> peppermint
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang
> wants
> <<>>> no
> <<>>> <<>>> part
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just
> as
> <<>>> good a
> <<>>> <<>>> job,
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like
> cryptocaryon.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the
> infected
> <<>>> fish,
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank
> water,
> <<>>> with
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some
> methe;yne
> <<>>> blue
> <<>>> <<>>> to
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and
> won't
> <<>>> hurt.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> <<>>> seperate
> <<>>> <<>>>> tank
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all
> symptoms
> <<>>> are
> <<>>> <<>>> gone.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out
> for a
> <<>>> month
> <<>>> <<>>>> or
> <<>>> <<>>> two:
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main
> tank
> <<>>> and
> <<>>> <<>>> cross
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop
> Parisite"
> <<>>> product.
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had
> kille
> <<>>> dthe
> <<>>> <<>>> ich
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then
> added
> <<>>> this
> <<>>> <<>>> stuff,
> <<>>> <<>>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>> -------
> <<>>> <<>>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Add Homonym]

StringerBell wrote:
> I`m a little confused, are there different kinds of "Ich"?

Yes. Amyloodininium is sometimes icorrectly called "ich" - it can break
out in white spots, but they tend to look more "powdery" - crypto is
more defined dots.

Another less common thing seen in the marine world is Black Ich - mostly
seems to hit yellow tangs for some reason. Small black spots instead of
small white spots. Usually casued by some sort of plathyhelminthes
turbellaria type worms.

> Is there a kind
> that is not contagious?

Not really.

>
> When I introduced a super-juvie Hippo Tang 4 months ago, it broke out in
> white spots for a few days, but it went away on its own after soaking its
> food in garlic for a few days. Ive never seen my other fish have any
> symptoms (knock on wood).

Parasites are ubiquitous in nature. One theory says most fish have them
at low levels, and they become apparent when the fish's immune system
gets compromised (from stress, injury, or whatever) - it is quite common
to see a new fish get some form of parasite, as being ripped off a reef,
shipped halfway around the world in a dark sealed syrofoam box, put in a
tank way to small for it at the LFS, then a few days later scooped out
and put in a sealed baggie, then put into some other tank an hour or so
later, tends to be <sarcasm>slightly stressfull</sarcasm> to the fish.

>
> Ive read many similiar posts in reef forums. There seems to be a lot of
> people who have Tangs break out in "Ich"--- but then do water changes or use
> the lights less and their Tangs also recover W/O any dipping or medication.

Very often this is the case. Ich usually is nothing to worry about in a
marine system, but it CAN be an indicator that something is stressing
the fish, and lowering it's immune response. That is why water change
often works wonders...(bad water stresses fish, changing the water ends
stress, immune system recovers - parasites go away)

[Susan]

Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp is a
neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.

Susan :)
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
> attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank with no
> calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely prevent the
> cycle of ich.
>
> But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
> clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy,
> and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine with some
> cleaner shrimp in there.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Pszemol wrote on 2/27/2007 3:48 PM:
>> "KurtG" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>>>
>>> I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this, but
>>> I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not really a
>>> cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your shrimp
>>> friends.
>>>
>>> I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
>>> amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand
>>> layer.
>>
>> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)
>>
>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plenum
>>
>> My tank is DSB and I am not going to vacuum fine sand out...
>> Vacuuming would not work.

[Pszemol]

"Susan" > wrote in message news:gCiFh.9222$Xe1.7486@trndny01...
> Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp
> is a neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.

Interesting... I will look at these guys.

[Add Homonym]

Pszemol wrote:
> "Susan" > wrote in message
> news:gCiFh.9222$Xe1.7486@trndny01...
>
>> Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp
>> is a neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.
>
>
> Interesting... I will look at these guys.

Or a cleaner wrasse....

<dons an asbestos suit, ducks>

[Pszemol]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message ink.net...
> No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the
> parasite likes to attach to calcium carbonate, in
> fact it has been shown that a tank with no calcium
> carbonate material, will greatly if not completely
> prevent the cycle of ich.

Did not know this... interesting.

> But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint
> shrimp. They will clean some, but get some cleaner
> shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy, and has no
> other stress factors it will heal up just fine with
> some cleaner shrimp in there.

I could not catch peppermint in the other tank.
So right after work I went out to the store, picked up
one Lysmata amboinensis (they all had this "black
spot disease" so it was very hard to pick even one
with little less visible symptoms).

After lights out I introduced new shrimp to the tank
and went to sleep.

Today when I went to work I could not inspect fish,
it was sleeping behind rocks, but now, I am home
and I see fish has almost no white spots. I see
drastic change. From about 20 spots now I can
see empty places where the parasite was sitting
and maybe 2 or 3 where it is still something there.

I am not sure if the shrimp was so active or if the
parasite was ready to drop from the fish on its own.

I fed the tang generous portion of dried algae and
some meat pellets, what else can I do to help him ?

Should I continue feeding him sliced garlic?
Here is interesting article about ich and garlic:
http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/Sal****er-Ich-and-Garlic.htm

[Wayne Sallee]

Yea neon gobies are neat cleaner fish, but they do
have one major drawback, and that is that they are
so small that they tend to go down the overflow, or
get sucked through prefilters. But yes, they are
very active cleaners, and cute too.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Susan wrote on 2/28/2007 12:04 PM:
> Another option that has even worked better for me than cleaner shrimp is a
> neon goby. They are active little guys cleaning fish.
>
> Susan :)
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
>> attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank with no
>> calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely prevent the
>> cycle of ich.
>>
>> But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
>> clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is healthy,
>> and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine with some
>> cleaner shrimp in there.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>>
>> Pszemol wrote on 2/27/2007 3:48 PM:
>>> "KurtG" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
>>>> I can almost see torches and pitch forks waving while I write this, but
>>>> I'd vacuum the plenum after the white spots drop off. It's not really a
>>>> cure, but it may help you break the cycle w/ the help of your shrimp
>>>> friends.
>>>>
>>>> I did that with mine, and I haven't seen Ich since. It also pulled an
>>>> amazing amount of crud out of my system, and I just have a thin sand
>>>> layer.
>>> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)
>>>
>>> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plenum
>>>
>>> My tank is DSB and I am not going to vacuum fine sand out...
>>> Vacuuming would not work.
>
>

[Wayne Sallee]

The black spots on shrimp, are like a bruising of
the cells, but usually does not kill the cleaner
shrimp, and is usually temporary.

Do whatever keeps the tang healthy and stress free.
It may get the ich again, but it should be less if
it gets it again.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 2/28/2007 1:50 PM:
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
>> attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank
>> with no calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely
>> prevent the cycle of ich.
>
> Did not know this... interesting.
>
>> But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
>> clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is
>> healthy, and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine
>> with some cleaner shrimp in there.
>
> I could not catch peppermint in the other tank.
> So right after work I went out to the store, picked up
> one Lysmata amboinensis (they all had this "black
> spot disease" so it was very hard to pick even one
> with little less visible symptoms).
>
> After lights out I introduced new shrimp to the tank
> and went to sleep.
>
> Today when I went to work I could not inspect fish,
> it was sleeping behind rocks, but now, I am home
> and I see fish has almost no white spots. I see
> drastic change. From about 20 spots now I can
> see empty places where the parasite was sitting
> and maybe 2 or 3 where it is still something there.
>
> I am not sure if the shrimp was so active or if the
> parasite was ready to drop from the fish on its own.
>
> I fed the tang generous portion of dried algae and
> some meat pellets, what else can I do to help him ?
>
> Should I continue feeding him sliced garlic?
> Here is interesting article about ich and garlic:
> http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/Sal****er-Ich-and-Garlic.htm

[Pszemol]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message ink.net...
> The black spots on shrimp, are like a bruising of
> the cells, but usually does not kill the cleaner
> shrimp, and is usually temporary.

It looks ugly. I had this problem with my other shrimps
which died already. My tank was shrimp-less for long.
It does not go away after molting, so I am not sure
if this is only surface bruising - I have read somewhere
it is some viral disease of shrimps, but I had no choice.
I know this is good cure for ich so I had to get at least
one, even if ugly.

> Do whatever keeps the tang healthy and stress free.
> It may get the ich again, but it should be less if
> it gets it again.

I just caught this sick fish a moment ago, sitting with lights
on in his night-home, next to the rock and shrimp was
walking all over him, sniping something from his skin
like on the all-you-can-eat buffet! This is amazing that
the shrimp "knows" what to do with a sick fish and fish
"knows" that the shrimp is its cure and let the doctor
do his work :-)

Reef tank rocks! :-)))

[Tristin]

Guess again dumbass.its not a bruise.........your a ****ing dumbass
WAyne.......

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 01:40:31 GMT, Wayne Sallee >
wrote:

<<>>The black spots on shrimp, are like a bruising of
<<>>the cells, but usually does not kill the cleaner
<<>>shrimp, and is usually temporary.
<<>>
<<>>Do whatever keeps the tang healthy and stress free.
<<>>It may get the ich again, but it should be less if
<<>>it gets it again.
<<>>
<<>>Wayne Sallee
<<>>Wayne's Pets

<<>>
<<>>Pszemol wrote on 2/28/2007 1:50 PM:
<<>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
<<>>> ink.net...
<<>>>> No, I wouldn't vacuum the sand. It is true that the parasite likes to
<<>>>> attach to calcium carbonate, in fact it has been shown that a tank
<<>>>> with no calcium carbonate material, will greatly if not completely
<<>>>> prevent the cycle of ich.
<<>>>
<<>>> Did not know this... interesting.
<<>>>
<<>>>> But what I would do is yes you can ad the peppermint shrimp. They will
<<>>>> clean some, but get some cleaner shrimp in there. If the tang is
<<>>>> healthy, and has no other stress factors it will heal up just fine
<<>>>> with some cleaner shrimp in there.
<<>>>
<<>>> I could not catch peppermint in the other tank.
<<>>> So right after work I went out to the store, picked up
<<>>> one Lysmata amboinensis (they all had this "black
<<>>> spot disease" so it was very hard to pick even one
<<>>> with little less visible symptoms).
<<>>>
<<>>> After lights out I introduced new shrimp to the tank
<<>>> and went to sleep.
<<>>>
<<>>> Today when I went to work I could not inspect fish,
<<>>> it was sleeping behind rocks, but now, I am home
<<>>> and I see fish has almost no white spots. I see
<<>>> drastic change. From about 20 spots now I can
<<>>> see empty places where the parasite was sitting
<<>>> and maybe 2 or 3 where it is still something there.
<<>>>
<<>>> I am not sure if the shrimp was so active or if the
<<>>> parasite was ready to drop from the fish on its own.
<<>>>
<<>>> I fed the tang generous portion of dried algae and
<<>>> some meat pellets, what else can I do to help him ?
<<>>>
<<>>> Should I continue feeding him sliced garlic?
<<>>> Here is interesting article about ich and garlic:
<<>>> http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/Sal****er-Ich-and-Garlic.htm



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Wayne Sallee]

Yes it can be caused by disease. I've seen many
cleaner shrimp loose their black spots after
molting. And it could take more than one molt to
loose the black spots. And sometimes cleaner shrimp
with black spots die, but usually they don't.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 2/28/2007 10:45 PM:
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> The black spots on shrimp, are like a bruising of the cells, but
>> usually does not kill the cleaner shrimp, and is usually temporary.
>
> It looks ugly. I had this problem with my other shrimps
> which died already. My tank was shrimp-less for long.
> It does not go away after molting, so I am not sure
> if this is only surface bruising - I have read somewhere
> it is some viral disease of shrimps, but I had no choice.
> I know this is good cure for ich so I had to get at least
> one, even if ugly.
>

[Tristin]

Thats your ****ing opinoin asshole...your a freaking moron
Wayne..........a big freaking moron.



On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:21:21 GMT, Wayne Sallee >
wrote:

<<>>Yes it can be caused by disease. I've seen many
<<>>cleaner shrimp loose their black spots after
<<>>molting. And it could take more than one molt to
<<>>loose the black spots. And sometimes cleaner shrimp
<<>>with black spots die, but usually they don't.
<<>>
<<>>Wayne Sallee
<<>>Wayne's Pets

<<>>
<<>>Pszemol wrote on 2/28/2007 10:45 PM:
<<>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
<<>>> ink.net...
<<>>>> The black spots on shrimp, are like a bruising of the cells, but
<<>>>> usually does not kill the cleaner shrimp, and is usually temporary.
<<>>>
<<>>> It looks ugly. I had this problem with my other shrimps
<<>>> which died already. My tank was shrimp-less for long.
<<>>> It does not go away after molting, so I am not sure
<<>>> if this is only surface bruising - I have read somewhere
<<>>> it is some viral disease of shrimps, but I had no choice.
<<>>> I know this is good cure for ich so I had to get at least
<<>>> one, even if ugly.
<<>>>



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> what the hell you call plenum? :-)

Sorry, sand & gravel on the bottom.

--Kurt

[K. Kearns Jr.]

"Tristin" > wrote in message
...
> Thats your ****ing opinoin asshole...your a freaking moron
> Wayne..........a big freaking moron.

Wayne........ another Roy "Tristan" Hauer victim singled our for abuse. The
list grows daily.

------ PLONK ------

[George Patterson]

Pszemol wrote:

> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)

Do a search for "Joubert plenum."

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[J. M. Loralee]

=== FLUSH ===


"Tristin" > wrote in message
...
>
> Here Carol, you mistakingly posted these in a freshwater group.
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:41:56 -0600, "Ocean Breeze"
> > wrote:
>
> <<>>
> <<>>Roy "Tristin" Hauer > wrote nothing of
> value to
> <<>>anyone and was
> <<>>promptly slapped down by a dead starfish:
> <<>>wrote in message ...
> <<>>
> <<>>Still trolling the groups... eh Tristan? Still making everyone as
> miserable
> <<>>as you are..... what an ass!
> <<>>
> <<>>> WOW..this group sure has a lot of dumbasses associated with
> <<>>> it......shortucts, wow, pay the piper now or pay the piper
> <<>>> later........no such thing as a free luch.........as yo get out of
> it
> <<>>> what you put into it and that goes for not doing things right! duh!
> <<>>> I'm sure you'll get all kinds of usefull info on how to cure that
> ICH
> <<>>> magnet tang and rid your tank of ICH in the process all without
> taking
> <<>>> it out and putting it in a QT......This may make a good case study
> on
> <<>>> another marine group as to how not to do things!
> <<>>>
> <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 12:59:30 -0600, "Pszemol" >
> <<>>> wrote:
> <<>>>
> <<>>> <<>>I made a stupid mistake and I added some new live rock
> <<>>> <<>>to an old, established tank without quarantine it first...
> <<>>> <<>>The effect: my large hepatus tang got ich.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>I do not want to cure it in the reef and taking it out
> <<>>> <<>>will be a challenge. I was thinking about getting some
> <<>>> <<>>cleaner shrimps to eat the parasite from the fish skin.
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>I plan to buy two skunk cleaners (Lysmata amboinensis)
> <<>>> <<>>but in the mean time - how about adding some peppermint
> <<>>> <<>>shrimps? I have 3 medium sized Lysmata wurdermanni in
> <<>>> <<>>an other tank, I could move them to the tank with tang.
> <<>>> <<>>Do you think it is a good idea?
> <<>>> <<>>
> <<>>> <<>>BTW
> <<>>> <<>>- I have two large maroon clowns and adult royal gramma
> <<>>> <<>>in the same tank with the hepatus tang... They do not show
> <<>>> <<>>any symptomps of ich. Can they be host without symptoms?
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>>
> <<>>> -------
> <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
>
>
>
> -------
> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Pszemol]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message news:P3EFh.4222$854.1160@trnddc04...
> Pszemol wrote:
>
>> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)
>
> Do a search for "Joubert plenum."

Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...

[Pszemol]

"J. M. Loralee" > wrote in message .com...
> === FLUSH ===

Why do you quote this troll?
Everybody filters him already and he is invisible unless quoted by somebody.

[Add Homonym's home account]

Pszemol wrote:

> "George Patterson" > wrote in message
> news:P3EFh.4222$854.1160@trnddc04...
>
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>
>>> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum? :-)
>>
>>
>> Do a search for "Joubert plenum."
>
>
> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...

Yes. Makes no sense. But I tried it anyway. Had to take all the sand out
to get to the plenum (actually sand, then a layer of crushed coral over
the plenum... but i digress) -- started to vacuum, and sparks started
coming out of the electrolux.

[Add Homonym's home account]

Pszemol wrote:

> "J. M. Loralee" > wrote in message
> .com...
>
>> === FLUSH ===
>
>
> Why do you quote this troll?
> Everybody filters him already and he is invisible unless quoted by
> somebody.

Trolls are half the fun of usenet.

[Tristin]

Chill out there old pszemol..your panties must be getting wadded up
again, perhaps its time to ask old WAyne to straightenthem out for
you.....



On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:03:35 -0600, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

<<>>"J. M. Loralee" > wrote in message .com...
<<>>> === FLUSH ===
<<>>
<<>>Why do you quote this troll?
<<>>Everybody filters him already and he is invisible unless quoted by somebody.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Wayne Sallee]

If you got down to the plenum, you should have just
thrown the plenum out while you were at it.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Add Homonym's home account wrote on 3/1/2007 4:22 PM:
> Pszemol wrote:
>
>> "George Patterson" > wrote in message
>> news:P3EFh.4222$854.1160@trnddc04...
>>
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know my English is not perfect, but what the hell you call plenum?
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Do a search for "Joubert plenum."
>>
>>
>> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
>> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...
>
> Yes. Makes no sense. But I tried it anyway. Had to take all the sand out
> to get to the plenum (actually sand, then a layer of crushed coral over
> the plenum... but i digress) -- started to vacuum, and sparks started
> coming out of the electrolux.
>

[Pszemol]

"Add Homonym's home account" > wrote in message . ..
> Pszemol wrote:
>
>> "J. M. Loralee" > wrote in message
>> .com...
>>
>>> === FLUSH ===
>>
>>
>> Why do you quote this troll?
>> Everybody filters him already and he is invisible unless quoted by
>> somebody.
>
> Trolls are half the fun of usenet.

If you say this, you are one of them and you deserve to be filtered out.

[Tristin]

You go there old foreign dude, your ona roll with those kill filters,
do it dude. You bust a nut yet? Man your so freaking good withallthat
advice.............just do not let them panaties of yours get too
wadded up. Might cut off your circulation and then you may have to set
down to **** if you already don't set down already. Use them filters,
dissagree with the in crowd of RAMR and feel the wrath...hahahahahaha

I think I wil make this my new home since Carol Gulley seems to like
to hang here anymore so this way I can be closer to the moron I own
and control........

On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:33:28 -0600, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

<<>>"Add Homonym's home account" > wrote in message . ..
<<>>> Pszemol wrote:
<<>>>
<<>>>> "J. M. Loralee" > wrote in message
<<>>>> .com...
<<>>>>
<<>>>>> === FLUSH ===
<<>>>>
<<>>>>
<<>>>> Why do you quote this troll?
<<>>>> Everybody filters him already and he is invisible unless quoted by
<<>>>> somebody.
<<>>>
<<>>> Trolls are half the fun of usenet.
<<>>
<<>>If you say this, you are one of them and you deserve to be filtered out.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Add Homonym's home account]

Wayne Sallee wrote:

> If you got down to the plenum, you should have just thrown the plenum
> out while you were at it.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>


But my fish are really into hydrogen sulfide...

[Wayne Sallee]

Surly you don't actually think that a deep sand bed
will poison the tank with hydrogen sulfide?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Add Homonym's home account wrote on 3/1/2007 8:24 PM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>
>> If you got down to the plenum, you should have just thrown the plenum
>> out while you were at it.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>
>
> But my fish are really into hydrogen sulfide...
>

[Carol Gulley Sucks]

On Feb 27, 5:56 pm, "Peter Pan" > wrote:
> It's a combination of both: I know you were probably beaten up as a child by
> everyone on the playground because you never learned to work and play well
> with others. Lets face it, no one ever likes the nerdy kid and the nerdy kid
> was you. This left you with an inferior complex. You had no one to play
> with, no friends , not even the family dog wanted to be near you. So you
> compensated. You dove into academics where you accelerated. Still not being
> appreciated for your intellect and still being beaten up by your peers you
> sought an outlet. You discovered a Cyber world where no one could harm you
> physically. It was then you decided you could finally strike back at those
> you deemed inferior to your intellect and not have to worry about getting
> your asskicked.
> It is in the Cyber world where you strive for acceptance. But even in here
> no one likes you and yes, probably all of us want to kick your ass.
>
> What does the future holds for you? You will probably meet , if you haven't
> already done so your cyber wife and where you will have countless hours of
> cyber sex. All in all, you need to get out of your parent's basement get a
> job. move out of their house and start a life of you own; a real life not
> one in the cyber world.
>
> "Tristin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Hey peter the pecker eater...why don't you tell me!
>
> > On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:07:35 -0500, "Peter Pan" >
> > wrote:
>
> > <<>>With your advanced knowledge of reef tanks, you choose to come in here
> and
> > <<>>berate those who are in the learning process of this hobby. Tell me
> genius,
> > <<>>do feel superior pointing out the shorting comings of others or you
> just get
> > <<>>off acting like a ****ing asshole?
> > <<>>
> > <<>>"Tristin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > <<>>> At least one person out of the bunch so far has sufficient knowledge
> > <<>>> on what to do.....
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>> I simply do not understand an engineer not knowing what a plenum
> > <<>>> is.....a plenum is a plenum, it matters ot what its on, its still
> fits
> > <<>>> the description of a plenum............duh!
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>> Oh yea carol or is it Ocean Breeze.here is another to go off on and
> > <<>>> cross post to the masses.......you lunatic!
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 15:19:12 -0500, Add Homonym
> > <<>>> > wrote:
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>Pszemol wrote:
> > <<>>> <<>>> "Add Homonym" > wrote in message
> > <<>>> ...
> > <<>>> <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>>> White or black ich? (I ask, because black ich is quite
> > <<>>> <<>>>> common in tangs - not in most other fish)
> > <<>>> <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>> White. About 20 white spots randomly spread over his body.
> > <<>>> <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>>> MIGHT work. I had one tang that refused to beleive a Lysmata
> > <<>>> <<>>>> wurdermanni was not actually a Lysmata amboinensis. Kept
> going up
> > <<>>to
> > <<>>> <<>>>> it like he expected a cleaning. Poor shrimp had no idea what
> was
> > <<>>> <<>>>> expected of him.
> > <<>>> <<>>>> Not I have the opposite - new tang, new peppermint shrimp -
> > <<>>peppermint
> > <<>>> <<>>>> shrip actually wants to pick at the tang, and the Tang wants
> no
> > <<>>part
> > <<>>> <<>>>> of it - but DOES let my skunk cleaner clean him.
> > <<>>> <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>>
> > <<>>> <<>>> So peppermints are not as good, right?
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>Depends on the individual. Some peppermints will do just as good
> a
> > <<>>job,
> > <<>>> <<>>but most won't do any cleaning (YMMV)
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>OK. So, the ich is small white spots. Sounds like cryptocaryon.
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>So, hate to tell ya, the CORRECT treatment is this-
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>take ALL fish out of the tank for 1-2 months. Take the infected
> fish,
> > <<>>> <<>>give it a dip in freshwater buffered to PH to match tank water,
> with
> > <<>>> <<>>formalin and copper sulfate added. I usually add some methe;yne
> blue
> > <<>>to
> > <<>>> <<>>help boost oxygen, since it is also an anti paraiste and won't
> hurt.
> > <<>>> <<>>After the dip (dip for about 7-10 minutes) put fish in a
> seperate tank
> > <<>>> <<>>and continue treatment with copper sulfate until all symptoms
> are
> > <<>>gone.
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>Alternate if you just plain can't take all the fish out for a
> month or
> > <<>>two:
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>treat sick fish with dip as above, and add garlic to main tank
> and
> > <<>>cross
> > <<>>> <<>>yer fingers that fish does not get re-infected.
> > <<>>> <<>>
> > <<>>> <<>>I have also had good luck with Chem Marin's "Stop Parisite"
> product.
> > <<>>> <<>>Dunno if it was merely a placebo effect or not (ie: I had kille
> dthe
> > <<>>ich
> > <<>>> <<>>without it anyway) but I did option #2 above, and then added
> this
> > <<>>stuff,
> > <<>>> <<>>and the problem was resolved.
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>>
> > <<>>> -------
> > <<>>> I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!
> > <<>>
>
> > -------
> > I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i like peters, peter...never fired one in a pan though......you sweet
just like our ladyboy pzesmol? everytime i wash my
ass inthe tank my fish get sick and die.........

[Add Homonym]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Surly you don't actually think that a deep sand bed will poison the tank
> with hydrogen sulfide?
>

With a plenum it sure can. Seen one where bubbles were popping out every
few seconds, and you could smell it...

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...

Apologies. I'm reading a book that appears to substitute Plenum for
sand as it doesn't want to confuse the reader with silica sand.

--Kurt

[Pszemol]

"KurtG" > wrote in message ...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
>> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...
>
> Apologies. I'm reading a book that appears to substitute Plenum for
> sand as it doesn't want to confuse the reader with silica sand.

What book is it?

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> "KurtG" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
>>> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...
>>
>> Apologies. I'm reading a book that appears to substitute Plenum for
>> sand as it doesn't want to confuse the reader with silica sand.
>
> What book is it?


The Reef Aquarium: Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3
by Julian Sprung (Author), J. Charles Delbeek (Author)

I'm about 300 pages into this weighty tome. Perhaps I was
misunderstanding, but they seemed to refer to the sand bed as the plenum.

--Kurt

[Pszemol]

"KurtG" > wrote in message ...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "KurtG" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
>>>> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...
>>>
>>> Apologies. I'm reading a book that appears to substitute Plenum for
>>> sand as it doesn't want to confuse the reader with silica sand.
>>
>> What book is it?
>
>
> The Reef Aquarium: Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3
> by Julian Sprung (Author), J. Charles Delbeek (Author)
>
> I'm about 300 pages into this weighty tome. Perhaps I was
> misunderstanding, but they seemed to refer to the sand bed as the plenum.

My understanding of a plenum in reef tanks is different.

Plenum method is based on a empty space under the sand
isolated from the sand with a layer of plastic mesh streched
over a construction of PVC pipes frame...
The idea is that the water accumulated under the sand is
anoxic and behaves as nitrates processing bed...

This idea is controversial, since water deep in the sand layer
without plenum will be anoxic too... so there is really no
reason behind building this artificial empty space under the
sand just to get anoxic layer of water...

I do not know how popular the plenum method is, but
I would not assume everybody here have plenum in
their tanks, nor suggesting vacuuming plenum makes
any sense at all...

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> I do not know how popular the plenum method is, but
> I would not assume everybody here have plenum in
> their tanks, nor suggesting vacuuming plenum makes
> any sense at all...

you're right and I misunderstood the definition.

--Kurt

[George Patterson]

Pszemol wrote:

> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand ...

Yep. You make undergravel filters popular again by removing the uplift tubes and
naming them after some French guy. :-)

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

What did they do, feed it?

Many years ago I turned an under gravel filter with
power heads into a denitrifier, and the power head
would burst out tones of bubbles, one pulse after
another before the bubbles could all clear. It was
not hydrogen sulfide though, and the fish swam in
the bubbles with no discontent.

But basically a plenum is a waste of space where a
deep sand bed would be much better. And if one wants
to build a denitrifier, and feed it, it's best do do
that externally of the tank.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Add Homonym wrote on 3/2/2007 9:39 AM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> Surly you don't actually think that a deep sand bed will poison the
>> tank with hydrogen sulfide?
>>
>
> With a plenum it sure can. Seen one where bubbles were popping out every
> few seconds, and you could smell it...

[Wayne Sallee]

Yea and bacteria works best attached, not floating
around in the water, therefore the plenum provides
less space for bacteria to grow.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Pszemol wrote on 3/2/2007 11:06 AM:
> "KurtG" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "KurtG" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>> Plenum is an empty space UNDER the sand, so I am not sure
>>>>> how can you understand the advice on vacuuming it...
>>>>
>>>> Apologies. I'm reading a book that appears to substitute Plenum for
>>>> sand as it doesn't want to confuse the reader with silica sand.
>>>
>>> What book is it?
>>
>>
>> The Reef Aquarium: Science, Art, and Technology, Vol. 3
>> by Julian Sprung (Author), J. Charles Delbeek (Author)
>>
>> I'm about 300 pages into this weighty tome. Perhaps I was
>> misunderstanding, but they seemed to refer to the sand bed as the plenum.
>
> My understanding of a plenum in reef tanks is different.
>
> Plenum method is based on a empty space under the sand
> isolated from the sand with a layer of plastic mesh streched
> over a construction of PVC pipes frame...
> The idea is that the water accumulated under the sand is
> anoxic and behaves as nitrates processing bed...
>
> This idea is controversial, since water deep in the sand layer
> without plenum will be anoxic too... so there is really no
> reason behind building this artificial empty space under the
> sand just to get anoxic layer of water...
>
> I do not know how popular the plenum method is, but
> I would not assume everybody here have plenum in
> their tanks, nor suggesting vacuuming plenum makes
> any sense at all...