Newbie question re: water quality

[greg d]

My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first aquarium a
couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time getting the pH level
down to where it ought to be (we have a plain tropical, freshwater
aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our municipal water is just too
high a pH and not good to use in the aquarium. The pet store folks
suggested using distilled water. This is fine with me, but I'm not sure
how to go about this. I don't want to lug a zillion 1 gallon jugs of
distilled water from the supermarket and am looking for other options. Is
it convenient and/or cost effective to get home delivery of dist. water?
To somehow make my own? Will bottled drinking water work instead? I'd
appreciate any ideas from anyone who's grappled with this in the past.
Thanks!

greg d

[Eric Schreiber]

greg d wrote:

> My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first
> aquarium a couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time
> getting the pH level down to where it ought to be (we have a plain
> tropical, freshwater aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our
> municipal water is just too high a pH and not good to use in the
> aquarium.

How high, exactly, is the pH, and what kind of fish are you putting in
the tank? Many species can cope with a wide pH range, needing a
specific pH only for things like spawning.


> The pet store folks suggested using distilled water. This
> is fine with me, but I'm not sure how to go about this.

You can buy bottled water, but don't assume it has the pH you want -
test it to be sure. As you noted, though, this will mean a lot of jugs
being carried around, and in a 46 gallon tank may be expensive.

You might also look into a reverse osmosis (RO) setup. All kinds of
articles about this on the web, so give Google a look. The short of it
is that RO removes pretty much everything from the water, resulting in
a distilled end product. It can be expensive, depending on your needs.

Lastly, you can lower the pH with chemical treatment, though in general
experienced aquarists are of the opinion that the less junk you put in
your tank, the better.

Some natural approaches that have similar effect are to add driftwood
to the tank, which will lower the pH somewhat, as well as looking nice
and giving your fish something to swim around. Also, running your water
through peat moss will help lower the pH. Again, do a Google search for
this.


--
Eric Schreiber
www.ericschreiber.com

[NetMax]

"Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
...
> greg d wrote:
>
> > My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first
> > aquarium a couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time
> > getting the pH level down to where it ought to be (we have a plain
> > tropical, freshwater aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our
> > municipal water is just too high a pH and not good to use in the
> > aquarium.
>
> How high, exactly, is the pH, and what kind of fish are you putting in
> the tank? Many species can cope with a wide pH range, needing a
> specific pH only for things like spawning.
>
>
> > The pet store folks suggested using distilled water. This
> > is fine with me, but I'm not sure how to go about this.
>
> You can buy bottled water, but don't assume it has the pH you want -
> test it to be sure. As you noted, though, this will mean a lot of jugs
> being carried around, and in a 46 gallon tank may be expensive.
>
> You might also look into a reverse osmosis (RO) setup. All kinds of
> articles about this on the web, so give Google a look. The short of it
> is that RO removes pretty much everything from the water, resulting in
> a distilled end product. It can be expensive, depending on your needs.
>
> Lastly, you can lower the pH with chemical treatment, though in general
> experienced aquarists are of the opinion that the less junk you put in
> your tank, the better.
>
> Some natural approaches that have similar effect are to add driftwood
> to the tank, which will lower the pH somewhat, as well as looking nice
> and giving your fish something to swim around. Also, running your water
> through peat moss will help lower the pH. Again, do a Google search for
> this.
>
>
> --
> Eric Schreiber
> www.ericschreiber.com

I can't improve on Eric's sage advice and only wanted to add that fish
store employees are quite often *not* a very good source of information.
Adding some DI or RO water might very well be a viable alternative, but
it would be good to start with your water basics (pH and gH or hardness)
and the type of fish you have or are interested in. It's far easier to
find fish which match your water parameters, than to constantly have to
change your water to match your fish.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Dick]

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:34:33 GMT, "greg d" > wrote:

>My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first aquarium a
>couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time getting the pH level
>down to where it ought to be (we have a plain tropical, freshwater
>aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our municipal water is just too
>high a pH and not good to use in the aquarium. The pet store folks
>suggested using distilled water. This is fine with me, but I'm not sure
>how to go about this. I don't want to lug a zillion 1 gallon jugs of
>distilled water from the supermarket and am looking for other options. Is
>it convenient and/or cost effective to get home delivery of dist. water?
>To somehow make my own? Will bottled drinking water work instead? I'd
>appreciate any ideas from anyone who's grappled with this in the past.
>Thanks!
>
>greg d

How high is high? I use tap water in 5 tanks. The pH is close to 8
and I keep a variety of fish. Any modification you make to your tap
water traps you into maintaining that condition.

You say the tank has been up for a couple of months, but you seem to
now be wanting to make adjustments. So, I wonder, are you having
problems with your fish or plants or are you just thinking you want to
have ideal chemistry?

Adjusting water chemistry may not fix what is broken. If it isn't
broken, why fix it?

[greg d]

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 04:38:17 -0500, Dick wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:34:33 GMT, "greg d" > wrote:
>
>>My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first aquarium
>>a couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time getting the pH
>>level down to where it ought to be (we have a plain tropical, freshwater
>>aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our municipal water is just too
>>high a pH and not good to use in the aquarium. The pet store folks
>>suggested using distilled water. This is fine with me, but I'm not sure
>>how to go about this. I don't want to lug a zillion 1 gallon jugs of
>>distilled water from the supermarket and am looking for other options.
>>Is it convenient and/or cost effective to get home delivery of dist.
>>water? To somehow make my own? Will bottled drinking water work
>>instead? I'd appreciate any ideas from anyone who's grappled with this
>>in the past. Thanks!
>>
>>greg d
>
> How high is high? I use tap water in 5 tanks. The pH is close to 8 and
> I keep a variety of fish. Any modification you make to your tap water
> traps you into maintaining that condition.

That's a good question. My water testing kit says it's around 7.8. When
the people at the petstore tested it, they said it was 9.0, and that's on
two occasions at two different stores.


> You say the tank has been up for a couple of months, but you seem to now
> be wanting to make adjustments. So, I wonder, are you having problems
> with your fish or plants or are you just thinking you want to have ideal
> chemistry?
>
>
I'm not looking to make any changes to the chemistry, just add a few more
fish. We have zebra danios and platys so far (8 fish total), and wanted
to add some kind of algae eater. Anyway, when we took our water in for
them to test, they said we should fix the water before getting any
additional fish b/c it would kill them. The fish
we have now, though, seem perfectly fine, which perplexed the folks at the
pet store a bit. Although, even if the fish seem fine, I'm not sure if
there are long term effects of them living in water with that high of a
pH.

> Adjusting water chemistry may not fix what is broken. If it isn't
> broken, why fix it?

[greg d]

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 23:27:37 -0400, NetMax wrote:

> "Eric Schreiber" <eric at ericschreiber dot com> wrote in message
> ...
>> greg d wrote:
>>
>> You can buy bottled water, but don't assume it has the pH you want -
>> test it to be sure. As you noted, though, this will mean a lot of jugs
>> being carried around, and in a 46 gallon tank may be expensive.
>>
>> You might also look into a reverse osmosis (RO) setup. All kinds of
>> articles about this on the web, so give Google a look. The short of it
>> is that RO removes pretty much everything from the water, resulting in
>> a distilled end product. It can be expensive, depending on your needs.
>>
>> Lastly, you can lower the pH with chemical treatment, though in general
>> experienced aquarists are of the opinion that the less junk you put in
>> your tank, the better.
>>
>> Some natural approaches that have similar effect are to add driftwood
>> to the tank, which will lower the pH somewhat, as well as looking nice
>> and giving your fish something to swim around. Also, running your water
>> through peat moss will help lower the pH. Again, do a Google search for
>> this.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Eric Schreiber
>> www.ericschreiber.com
>
> I can't improve on Eric's sage advice and only wanted to add that fish
> store employees are quite often *not* a very good source of information.
> Adding some DI or RO water might very well be a viable alternative, but
> it would be good to start with your water basics (pH and gH or hardness)
> and the type of fish you have or are interested in. It's far easier to
> find fish which match your water parameters, than to constantly have to
> change your water to match your fish.

Thanks for the advice. I'll study up a bit more and try some of these
ideas out.

greg d

[NetMax]

"greg d" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 04:38:17 -0500, Dick wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:34:33 GMT, "greg d" >
wrote:
> >
> >>My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first
aquarium
> >>a couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time getting the pH
> >>level down to where it ought to be (we have a plain tropical,
freshwater
> >>aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our municipal water is just
too
> >>high a pH and not good to use in the aquarium. The pet store folks
> >>suggested using distilled water. This is fine with me, but I'm not
sure
> >>how to go about this. I don't want to lug a zillion 1 gallon jugs of
> >>distilled water from the supermarket and am looking for other
options.
> >>Is it convenient and/or cost effective to get home delivery of dist.
> >>water? To somehow make my own? Will bottled drinking water work
> >>instead? I'd appreciate any ideas from anyone who's grappled with
this
> >>in the past. Thanks!
> >>
> >>greg d
> >
> > How high is high? I use tap water in 5 tanks. The pH is close to 8
and
> > I keep a variety of fish. Any modification you make to your tap
water
> > traps you into maintaining that condition.
>
> That's a good question. My water testing kit says it's around 7.8.
When
> the people at the petstore tested it, they said it was 9.0, and that's
on
> two occasions at two different stores.

Tanganyikan cichlids would do alright in high 8s and their natural
environment goes into the low 9s. If your water is hard, so that the
high pH is natural, then most African cichlids would be fine with it. If
your water is soft and the high pH is due to chemicals added by your
municipality, then that's a bit different. If you are trying to keep
low-pH soft water fish, then your 9.0 will be stressful, selectively by
type of fish. Stable parameters can sometimes be more important, but
assess your gH and pH and then look at the types of fish which are of
interest to you. Some neutral water fishes are more adaptable, than
types from extremes.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> > You say the tank has been up for a couple of months, but you seem to
now
> > be wanting to make adjustments. So, I wonder, are you having
problems
> > with your fish or plants or are you just thinking you want to have
ideal
> > chemistry?
> >
> >
> I'm not looking to make any changes to the chemistry, just add a few
more
> fish. We have zebra danios and platys so far (8 fish total), and
wanted
> to add some kind of algae eater. Anyway, when we took our water in for
> them to test, they said we should fix the water before getting any
> additional fish b/c it would kill them. The fish
> we have now, though, seem perfectly fine, which perplexed the folks at
the
> pet store a bit. Although, even if the fish seem fine, I'm not sure if
> there are long term effects of them living in water with that high of a
> pH.
>
> > Adjusting water chemistry may not fix what is broken. If it isn't
> > broken, why fix it?

[Dick]

On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 18:34:04 GMT, "greg d" > wrote:

>I'm not looking to make any changes to the chemistry, just add a few more
>fish. We have zebra danios and platys so far (8 fish total), and wanted
>to add some kind of algae eater. Anyway, when we took our water in for
>them to test, they said we should fix the water before getting any
>additional fish b/c it would kill them. The fish
>we have now, though, seem perfectly fine, which perplexed the folks at the
>pet store a bit. Although, even if the fish seem fine, I'm not sure if
>there are long term effects of them living in water with that high of a
>pH.

If you have no problem with the Zebras and Platys I would go for the
new fish. I would worry more about over populating than the water
condition so long as existing fish are well. If you monitor this
group for long you will note some people like to manage their tank's
water closely. I found it safer for me to go with what comes out of
the tap. Adding chemicals means you must do so carefully and continue
to do so. It is so much less of a hassle to use tap water. Your tank
has successfully "cycled", your fish are ok, go natural. You can
always start adjusting if something indicates a problem.

dick

[Dave]

"greg d" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 04:38:17 -0500, Dick wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 00:34:33 GMT, "greg d" > wrote:
> >
> >>My wife and I are new to the aquarium world and setup our first aquarium
> >>a couple of months ago. We're having a terrible time getting the pH
> >>level down to where it ought to be (we have a plain tropical, freshwater
> >>aquarium - 46 gal). It turns out that our municipal water is just too
> >>high a pH and not good to use in the aquarium. The pet store folks
> >>suggested using distilled water. This is fine with me, but I'm not sure
> >>how to go about this. I don't want to lug a zillion 1 gallon jugs of
> >>distilled water from the supermarket and am looking for other options.
> >>Is it convenient and/or cost effective to get home delivery of dist.
> >>water? To somehow make my own? Will bottled drinking water work
> >>instead? I'd appreciate any ideas from anyone who's grappled with this
> >>in the past. Thanks!

If you wind up deciding you want to lower your pH, consider adding CO2.
You'll have the added benefit of having live plants in your tank, if you
want. Injecting CO2 is easy (lots of DIY talk on
rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants). Just make sure your KH is 5 or above,
otherwise you could get sudden pH drops.

http://faq.thekrib.com

[Dick]

On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 13:57:22 GMT, "Dave"
> wrote:

>
>If you wind up deciding you want to lower your pH, consider adding CO2.
>You'll have the added benefit of having live plants in your tank,

Low light plants do very well without CO2. Suggesting CO2 is the only
way to have live plants is a disservice. I think the benefits would
include wider varieties, and more growth. My low light plants don't
grow as tall as the high light, but that is a function of added light
and more varieties to choose from. I wonder what you were thinking by
stating CO2 has the "added benefit of having live plants?" I
understand there are benefits to CO2, but I don't think that is one.

dick

> if you
>want. Injecting CO2 is easy (lots of DIY talk on
>rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants). Just make sure your KH is 5 or above,
>otherwise you could get sudden pH drops.