Planted Tank maintainence

[David Kershaw]

Hi All,
My new(ish) venture, a plants only tank is working quite well
now. Some of the plants are outgrowing their allotted space and need
pruning, I tend to disturb things when I try to do this. So, can anyone
recommend a site with a tutorial on planted tank maintenance?
Regards David

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
David Kershaw > wrote:
>Hi All,
> My new(ish) venture, a plants only tank is working quite well
>now. Some of the plants are outgrowing their allotted space and need
>pruning, I tend to disturb things when I try to do this. So, can anyone
>recommend a site with a tutorial on planted tank maintenance?
>Regards David
>
>

Tutrial on planted tank maintenance:

1) fertilize plants

2) Siphon out waste

3) add water

4) most importantly, leave it alone, modulo cuttings from stme plants to keep them tidy.


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[David Kershaw]

> Tutrial on planted tank maintenance:
>
> 1) fertilize plants
>
> 2) Siphon out waste
>
> 3) add water
>
> 4) most importantly, leave it alone, modulo cuttings from stme plants to
> keep them tidy.
>
> Richard Sexton

Thanks Richard, if only life was that easy ;o) Controlling the CO2 levels,
the phosphates and nitrate levels seems to take up a lot of my time.
As for Siphoning out waste, what waste? Unless you mean the stained water
from the bog wood. The whole idea is to achieve a biological balance.
Regular water changes (never more than 10 gallons at a time) every 3 days,
help to replace some of the trace elements, but I live in England and our
water supply is rich in nitrate, aluminium and various other oxides. So a
water change can be a two edged sward. Still, it's easier than maintaining
sea water (I've only kept marines for the last 30 years), this fresh water
tank is a new departure for me.
I'm a little unsure about the nutrient demands of the various kinds of
plant, obviously some of the softer stemmed species only produce roots as a
'holdfast' and so their nutrient needs to be drawn from the water. Stiffer
stemmed species and broad leaf species have a more substantial root network
(some even have rhizomes) and these should benefit from fertilizer direct to
the root. I'm still struggling to understand the levels of erithrin (that's
probably misspelled, red pigment) in some plant leaf and stem structures, it
seems to vary with the amount of light. It is possible that I need to look
at the colour temperature of the lights, rather than concentrating on the
wattage and photoperiod, but I'm still a beginner that's why I'm asking for
help.
Algae's are another interesting area, these are very easy to control, but
less easy to identify. Can anyone put a name to the very dark, branching,
thread like structures that are growing on one or two leaves? I can't decide
if I find the attractive or not ;o)
forgive the excessive length of this ramble, I'm still a beginner and
probably failing to see the obvious, that's why I asked about planted tank
tutorials. After all, if you are going to do anything, you need to give of
your best. This newsgroup I hope will prove a readily available resource in
providing answers.
Thanks again David

[[email protected]]

;o) Controlling the CO2 levels,
> the phosphates and nitrate levels seems to take up a lot of my time.

Why?
CO2 perhaps, but a pH drop checker makes testing a thing of the past
and addresses several assumptions well.
Water change + routine dosing addresses the NO3/PO4, not too much, not
too high. You add 2=3x a week, then water change 50% weekyl and you
keep a pretty constant value, no test kits for either method required.

> As for Siphoning out waste, what waste? Unless you mean the stained water
> from the bog wood. The whole idea is to achieve a biological balance.

No, that's not how you do things with CO2/horticulture, this is not
natural ecology. This is horticulture.

You focus on the plant's needs, when you do that, they grow like mad
and provide an ideal place for fish and it also looks good.

Water changes are very effective at removal of organic fractions,
that tend to get measured on test kits but are not bioavailable to the
plants.

Using water changes also maintains a more even balance of nutrients.
And it also removes the need for testing to target a particular range
of NO3 or PO4 that's optimal for plant growth.

> Regular water changes (never more than 10 gallons at a time) every 3 days,
> help to replace some of the trace elements, but I live in England and our
> water supply is rich in nitrate, aluminium and various other oxides.

Well then it's ideal for the method, 40-50ppm NO3 and doing a water
change of 50% weekly would add about 20-25ppm and with some fish load,
that's about the perfect range for plant uptake for the week.

Add some K2SO4(about 20ppm worth, some KH2PO4(2-3ppm), Trace elements,
like TMG(5mls 3x a week for every 80 liters of tank).

Same thing the next week and thereafter.
Plenty of folks in the UK do this.


So a
> water change can be a two edged sward. Still, it's easier than maintaining
> sea water (I've only kept marines for the last 30 years), this fresh water
> tank is a new departure for me.

Well, that can be more of an issue.
FW plants can sorb a lot of nutrients, just like a wheat field sucks
out the soil's nutrients.

> I'm a little unsure about the nutrient demands of the various kinds of
> plant, obviously some of the softer stemmed species only produce roots as a
> 'holdfast' and so their nutrient needs to be drawn from the water. Stiffer
> stemmed species and broad leaf species have a more substantial root network
> (some even have rhizomes) and these should benefit from fertilizer direct to
> the root. I'm still struggling to understand the levels of erithrin (that's
> probably misspelled, red pigment) in some plant leaf and stem structures, it
> seems to vary with the amount of light.

Not really, the light has an indirect coloring effect.

It is possible that I need to look
> at the colour temperature of the lights, rather than concentrating on the
> wattage and photoperiod, but I'm still a beginner that's why I'm asking for
> help.

Not really, most folks with daylight colors and 2w/gal or more are
fine, more light is not better, it just means more work above 2-3w/
gal.

> Algae's are another interesting area, these are very easy to control, but
> less easy to identify. Can anyone put a name to the very dark, branching,
> thread like structures that are growing on one or two leaves? I can't decide
> if I find the attractive or not ;o)
> forgive the excessive length of this ramble, I'm still a beginner and
> probably failing to see the obvious, that's why I asked about planted tank
> tutorials. After all, if you are going to do anything, you need to give of
> your best. This newsgroup I hope will prove a readily available resource in
> providing answers.
> Thanks again David

Sounds like Cladophora if green, if a grey Compsopogon.
Hair and Staghorm algae respectively.

Sound more like Caldophora if you like it some.
Light = 10 hours a day.

Seems like you likely have lower than ideal CO2 levels,
Bump that up some, add the ferts above, weed out any algae, clean
equipment etc, trim plants, dose properly.

www.aquaessentials.com sells the ferts above for cheap in the UK.
You might try their web site, TFC, TFR and other UK specific sites
also.

A lot less trolls than this list.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Reel McKoi[_6_]]

Yea right .where is the proof. Even CArol Gulley knows better than
this crap!
On 23 Mar 2007 10:26:17 -0700, wrote:
>><>;o) Controlling the CO2 levels,
>><>> the phosphates and nitrate levels seems to take up a lot of my time.
>><>
>><>Why?
>><>CO2 perhaps, but a pH drop checker makes testing a thing of the past
>><>and addresses several assumptions well.
>><>Water change + routine dosing addresses the NO3/PO4, not too much, not
>><>too high. You add 2=3x a week, then water change 50% weekyl and you
>><>keep a pretty constant value, no test kits for either method required.
>><>
>><>> As for Siphoning out waste, what waste? Unless you mean the stained water
>><>> from the bog wood. The whole idea is to achieve a biological balance.
>><>
>><>No, that's not how you do things with CO2/horticulture, this is not
>><>natural ecology. This is horticulture.
>><>
>><>You focus on the plant's needs, when you do that, they grow like mad
>><>and provide an ideal place for fish and it also looks good.
>><>
>><>Water changes are very effective at removal of organic fractions,
>><>that tend to get measured on test kits but are not bioavailable to the
>><>plants.
>><>
>><>Using water changes also maintains a more even balance of nutrients.
>><>And it also removes the need for testing to target a particular range
>><>of NO3 or PO4 that's optimal for plant growth.
>><>
>><>> Regular water changes (never more than 10 gallons at a time) every 3 days,
>><>> help to replace some of the trace elements, but I live in England and our
>><>> water supply is rich in nitrate, aluminium and various other oxides.
>><>
>><>Well then it's ideal for the method, 40-50ppm NO3 and doing a water
>><>change of 50% weekly would add about 20-25ppm and with some fish load,
>><>that's about the perfect range for plant uptake for the week.
>><>
>><>Add some K2SO4(about 20ppm worth, some KH2PO4(2-3ppm), Trace elements,
>><>like TMG(5mls 3x a week for every 80 liters of tank).
>><>
>><>Same thing the next week and thereafter.
>><>Plenty of folks in the UK do this.
>><>
>><>
>><>So a
>><>> water change can be a two edged sward. Still, it's easier than maintaining
>><>> sea water (I've only kept marines for the last 30 years), this fresh water
>><>> tank is a new departure for me.
>><>
>><>Well, that can be more of an issue.
>><>FW plants can sorb a lot of nutrients, just like a wheat field sucks
>><>out the soil's nutrients.
>><>
>><>> I'm a little unsure about the nutrient demands of the various kinds of
>><>> plant, obviously some of the softer stemmed species only produce roots as a
>><>> 'holdfast' and so their nutrient needs to be drawn from the water. Stiffer
>><>> stemmed species and broad leaf species have a more substantial root network
>><>> (some even have rhizomes) and these should benefit from fertilizer direct to
>><>> the root. I'm still struggling to understand the levels of erithrin (that's
>><>> probably misspelled, red pigment) in some plant leaf and stem structures, it
>><>> seems to vary with the amount of light.
>><>
>><>Not really, the light has an indirect coloring effect.
>><>
>><> It is possible that I need to look
>><>> at the colour temperature of the lights, rather than concentrating on the
>><>> wattage and photoperiod, but I'm still a beginner that's why I'm asking for
>><>> help.
>><>
>><>Not really, most folks with daylight colors and 2w/gal or more are
>><>fine, more light is not better, it just means more work above 2-3w/
>><>gal.
>><>
>><>> Algae's are another interesting area, these are very easy to control, but
>><>> less easy to identify. Can anyone put a name to the very dark, branching,
>><>> thread like structures that are growing on one or two leaves? I can't decide
>><>> if I find the attractive or not ;o)
>><>> forgive the excessive length of this ramble, I'm still a beginner and
>><>> probably failing to see the obvious, that's why I asked about planted tank
>><>> tutorials. After all, if you are going to do anything, you need to give of
>><>> your best. This newsgroup I hope will prove a readily available resource in
>><>> providing answers.
>><>> Thanks again David
>><>
>><>Sounds like Cladophora if green, if a grey Compsopogon.
>><>Hair and Staghorm algae respectively.
>><>
>><>Sound more like Caldophora if you like it some.
>><>Light = 10 hours a day.
>><>
>><>Seems like you likely have lower than ideal CO2 levels,
>><>Bump that up some, add the ferts above, weed out any algae, clean
>><>equipment etc, trim plants, dose properly.
>><>
>><>www.aquaessentials.com sells the ferts above for cheap in the UK.
>><>You might try their web site, TFC, TFR and other UK specific sites
>><>also.
>><>
>><>A lot less trolls than this list.
>><>
>><>Regards,
>><>Tom Barr
>><>
>><>
>><>
>><>

[David Kershaw]

Thanks Tom, from your comments I seem to be heading in the right direction.
The Algae is probably Compsopogon, I just needed a pointer to help identify
it.
Regards David

[David Kershaw]

"Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Yea right .where is the proof. Even CArol Gulley knows better than
> this crap!
You will have to explain the above comment? It seems totally unrelated to
the discussion so far. The points put forward by Tom seemed to be reasoned
and helpful, or am I missing something?
Regards David

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
David Kershaw > wrote:
>Thanks Richard, if only life was that easy ;o) Controlling the CO2 levels,
>the phosphates and nitrate levels seems to take up a lot of my time.
>As for Siphoning out waste, what waste? Unless you mean the stained water
>from the bog wood. The whole idea is to achieve a biological balance.
>Regular water changes (never more than 10 gallons at a time) every 3 days,
>help to replace some of the trace elements, but I live in England and our
>water supply is rich in nitrate, aluminium and various other oxides. So a
>water change can be a two edged sward. Still, it's easier than maintaining
>sea water (I've only kept marines for the last 30 years), this fresh water
>tank is a new departure for me.

Sounds like too much work to me. CHange half the water once a week and
fertilize a couple of times a week. Done. Goog "estimative index".

>I'm a little unsure about the nutrient demands of the various kinds of
>plant, obviously some of the softer stemmed species only produce roots as a
>'holdfast' and so their nutrient needs to be drawn from the water. Stiffer
>stemmed species and broad leaf species have a more substantial root network
>(some even have rhizomes) and these should benefit from fertilizer direct to
>the root. I'm still struggling to understand the levels of erithrin (that's
>probably misspelled, red pigment) in some plant leaf and stem structures, it
>seems to vary with the amount of light. It is possible that I need to look
>at the colour temperature of the lights, rather than concentrating on the
>wattage and photoperiod, but I'm still a beginner that's why I'm asking for
>help.

You worry too much. With adequate light and fertilizer the plants just
grow like weeds.

>Algae's are another interesting area, these are very easy to control, but
>less easy to identify. Can anyone put a name to the very dark, branching,
>thread like structures that are growing on one or two leaves? I can't decide
>if I find the attractive or not ;o)

When you have alot it's not attractive. It's staghorn algae and is
easily killed by adding nitrate and is killed faster by using flourish excel.

My guess is thiuhg with your co2 if you just elevate the nitrate it will turn
pink, then white, then dissolve.

>forgive the excessive length of this ramble, I'm still a beginner and
>probably failing to see the obvious, that's why I asked about planted tank
>tutorials. After all, if you are going to do anything, you need to give of
>your best. This newsgroup I hope will prove a readily available resource in
>providing answers.

Once you have a thousand answers you'll realize you only need 3.


Stability
light
food

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[David Kershaw]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...

>
> Once you have a thousand answers you'll realize you only need 3.
>
>
> Stability
> light
> food
>
Thanks Richard, I found your comments helpful, though you forgot the fourth
answer ;o) patience.
Regard David

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
David Kershaw > wrote:
>
>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> Once you have a thousand answers you'll realize you only need 3.
>>
>>
>> Stability
>> light
>> food
>>
>Thanks Richard, I found your comments helpful, though you forgot the fourth
>answer ;o) patience.

I can't even spell patience. Let alone have any.

My best tanks are the ones I forget about.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[nots.parry316@btint???et.com]

On 23 Mar 2007 10:26:17 -0700, wrote:

>;o) Controlling the CO2 levels,

>www.aquaessentials.com sells the ferts above for cheap in the UK.
>You might try their web site, TFC, TFR and other UK specific sites
>also.
>
>A lot less trolls than this list.
>
>Regards,
>Tom Barr
>
This seems to be a dead link, Tom
Stephen Parry London W2

[RedForeman - The Origial Recipe]

On Apr 14, 9:46 am, wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2007 10:26:17 -0700, wrote:
>
> >;o) Controlling the CO2 levels,
> >www.aquaessentials.comsells the ferts above for cheap in the UK.
> >You might try their web site, TFC, TFR and other UK specific sites
> >also.
>
> >A lot less trolls than this list.
>
> >Regards,
> >Tom Barr
>
> This seems to be a dead link, Tom
> Stephen Parry London W2

wouldn't this one be better?
http://www.barrreport.com/

heeheehee!!!

Hey Tom!!

RedForeman...

ps, sorry there are trolls here again and as usual... we'll see what
can be done....