New Aquarium Questions

[Hamlet]

I'm setting up a new tank (my first, except for one I had as a kid 15
years ago) and I had a few questions. Some details:

Tank is a 40 gallon breeder (36in X 18in X 16in)
Filter is a Penguin 330 (two wheels for bio-filter)
150 Watt Heater
basic 25 watt flourescent light


My plan (such that it is):

declorinate the water
get temp to 78F
do tests for PH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates

Assuming nothing bad shows up in the tests,

start with 5 platies of various colors (following cycling instructions
from The Simple Guide to Fresh Water Aquariums)

later add 3 swordtails (1M 2F) of various colors

later add 4-6 cories of various types

possibly make additions based on load feedback and suggestions from
this group.

Questions:

1. Why is my tank called a 40 gallon when it holds 45 gallons?
2. Is my filter adequate? I could add another if neccessary.
3. Will the aeration of the filter(s) be enough, or do I need to
supplement it? It keeps the water at the top moving pretty good. The
book suggests skipping the whole pump/airstone area for simplicity.
4. Cories are schooling fish. How many should I get to keep them
happy? Is it ok to mix them a little for variety?
5. Real plants are pretty much out unless I upgrade the light,
correct? Would Java Fern be ok or should I just go with plastic
plants?

My interest is to have the platies and swordtails breed a little, but
not overwhelm me with fish. I understand that the fish will eat the
fry, so I'm planning on leaving the fry in the main tank. I will give
them lots of cover (probably plastic) to hide in, hoping that a few
will reach adulthood. Does this make sense? any suggestions?

Am I forgeting anything vital?

[NetMax]

"Hamlet" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm setting up a new tank (my first, except for one I had as a kid 15
> years ago) and I had a few questions. Some details:
>
> Tank is a 40 gallon breeder (36in X 18in X 16in)
> Filter is a Penguin 330 (two wheels for bio-filter)
> 150 Watt Heater
> basic 25 watt flourescent light
>
>
> My plan (such that it is):
>
> declorinate the water
> get temp to 78F
> do tests for PH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates
>
> Assuming nothing bad shows up in the tests,
>
> start with 5 platies of various colors (following cycling instructions
> from The Simple Guide to Fresh Water Aquariums)
>
> later add 3 swordtails (1M 2F) of various colors
>
> later add 4-6 cories of various types
>
> possibly make additions based on load feedback and suggestions from
> this group.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1. Why is my tank called a 40 gallon when it holds 45 gallons?

One of the mysteries of life ;~) It's actually closer to 41g based on
inside measurements, and with gravel displacement, you might get to 40g,
but it should be called a 44g. In any case, it's just a common reference
point to use when discussing tanks with others.

> 2. Is my filter adequate? I could add another if neccessary.

It's optimistically rated for a 70g, but it should do a 40g fine, unless
your fish-load gets too high.

> 3. Will the aeration of the filter(s) be enough, or do I need to
> supplement it? It keeps the water at the top moving pretty good. The
> book suggests skipping the whole pump/airstone area for simplicity.

Skipping the aeration works fine.

> 4. Cories are schooling fish. How many should I get to keep them
> happy? Is it ok to mix them a little for variety?

Minimum 4, but better with about 6. Different species will sometimes
ignore each other, so you can't count on them shoaling together.

> 5. Real plants are pretty much out unless I upgrade the light,
> correct? Would Java Fern be ok or should I just go with plastic
> plants?

Real plants are fine. Put in a fresh wide-spectrum bulb, avoid
high-light plants and keep your expectations modest until there is enough
mulm in the gravel to feed them.

> My interest is to have the platies and swordtails breed a little, but
> not overwhelm me with fish.

They will also cross-breed, giving you a natural hybrid, sometimes called
the Salt & Pepper Platy.

I understand that the fish will eat the
> fry, so I'm planning on leaving the fry in the main tank. I will give
> them lots of cover (probably plastic) to hide in, hoping that a few
> will reach adulthood. Does this make sense? any suggestions?

Makes sense to me. For more survivors, add more shelter.

> Am I forgeting anything vital?

Is your source water hard or soft? I'm asking because Corys are soft
water fish and Platys & Swordtails are hard water fish. If you water is
not at an extreme, then both should be fine together. Suggestions for
other fish would depend on your water conditions.

You should not have an ammonia or nitrites as you have no fish load yet.
I can't comment on the method you referenced. There is also fishless
cycling using bottled ammonia which works very well (no fish to worry
about and no water changes during cycling).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[MarAzul]

If you're only planning to get 6 then I would either get 2 groups of 3 or 6
of the same. I personally have 20 in my 60 gallon - 5 different species (6
if you consider albinos different that aeneus).

Also, to add to what NetMax said "Different species will sometimes ignore
each other, so you can't count on them shoaling together."
That's true, however it's also true that some same-species will ignore each
other while others are very 'close'. I have 6 bronze cats and they don't
spend much time in each others company. However, I recently got some Spotted
Corys and those guys never leave each others side. All-in-all though, my
corys hang out with whichever species is close to them. They aren't too
picky.

Mar
--------------------------------------------------
If the poodle got loose, I figured I could take it. I was armed.
- Laurell K. Hamilton from the Anita Blake series


"Hamlet" > wrote in message
om...
> later add 4-6 cories of various types
>
> 4. Cories are schooling fish. How many should I get to keep them
> happy? Is it ok to mix them a little for variety?

[Dick]

On 10 Jun 2004 12:36:52 -0700, (Hamlet)
wrote:

>I'm setting up a new tank (my first, except for one I had as a kid 15
>years ago) and I had a few questions. Some details:
>
>Tank is a 40 gallon breeder (36in X 18in X 16in)
>Filter is a Penguin 330 (two wheels for bio-filter)
>150 Watt Heater
>basic 25 watt flourescent light

I hope this is a mistake, for low light plants you want 60 to 80
watts of light. 25 watts is not what I would call "basic" certainly
inadequate.
>
>
>My plan (such that it is):
>
>declorinate the water
>get temp to 78F
>do tests for PH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates
>
>Assuming nothing bad shows up in the tests,
>
>start with 5 platies of various colors (following cycling instructions
>from The Simple Guide to Fresh Water Aquariums)
>
>later add 3 swordtails (1M 2F) of various colors
>
>later add 4-6 cories of various types
>
>possibly make additions based on load feedback and suggestions from
>this group.
>
>Questions:
>
>1. Why is my tank called a 40 gallon when it holds 45 gallons?
>2. Is my filter adequate? I could add another if neccessary.
>3. Will the aeration of the filter(s) be enough, or do I need to
>supplement it? It keeps the water at the top moving pretty good. The
>book suggests skipping the whole pump/airstone area for simplicity.
>4. Cories are schooling fish. How many should I get to keep them
>happy? Is it ok to mix them a little for variety?

I have 15 species in my 75 gallon tank. Over the 18 months I have had
the tank, the species started schooling with their own. This was neat
as they would school at different levels of the tank. Over a few
months time the schooling became more and more mixed but still side to
side. Today they all mix together and school in a corner top to
bottom. Who knows what goes on in the minds of fish. Outguessing
their behavior is wasted effort, I think.

>5. Real plants are pretty much out unless I upgrade the light,
>correct? Would Java Fern be ok or should I just go with plastic
>plants?

I thought I had low light tanks, but yours is hard to imagine. I do
have one 10 gallon tank with a low light level partly due to the blue
spectrum which is dominant. I have Crypts and Anubias in it. They
grow very slowly, but have survived. However, the bulb rating is 18
watts, much reduced by its ageing. I would go for a new hood, not
only to allow better light for plants, but easier to watch your fish.
I just can't imagine a commercialy produced tank with only 25 watts.

>
>My interest is to have the platies and swordtails breed a little, but
>not overwhelm me with fish. I understand that the fish will eat the
>fry, so I'm planning on leaving the fry in the main tank. I will give
>them lots of cover (probably plastic) to hide in, hoping that a few
>will reach adulthood. Does this make sense? any suggestions?

Be careful, you might get what you wish for. Line up friends that
will want the new fish you will have. I had one Molly drop 50 fry at
one time, overnight the 10 gallon was became a black cloud. Wouldn't
you know it almost all lived. I now have Mollies in 4 tanks and they
keep on breeding. The survival rate has dropped, thank heaven, as I
now have them in community tanks. Live bearers are fun, but think
ahead to who you can give them to. I gather some LFS will take them
off your hands.
>
>Am I forgeting anything vital?

Food. If you want to encourage breeding and have good survival rates
plan to feed well. Others can make better suggestions than I can. I
feed only flake food and the fry survive. But, if I was serious about
breeding, I would provide a richer food supply. I knew a man that
raised microworms to feed his black molly fry. His Mollies were the
most beautiful I have ever seen.

Good luck

dick

[NetMax]

About the Corys not shoaling, you are so right. I worry less in this
case, as I've done my bit by getting a large enough crowd, and if they
want to break into smaller groups or be individuals, then that's their
decision.

At work, I picked up a box of wild-caught Corys from Columbia. I had
about 300 of them divided between two 60g tanks (commercial filtration
systems). In one of the 60s, I tiered the gravel up (using western cedar
on its sides attached to slate), and I'm about 50% planted (which is
fairly dense) on the upper levels. I then took a reptile water dish
(about 7" in dia.) and made them a sandbox right in the front (filled
with a light pink crushed bone sand, bone because my kH is too low), and
pushed the sandbox into the gravel (small smooth natural coloured
gravel). I drop their food into the sandbox, and they are quite well
trained now. Besides being beneficial for their barbels, I thought the
sand would let them dig and play more and I could easily gravel vac off
the sand periodically. They don't bury themselves too deeply
(occasionally I find one about 1cm deep in it), and there is nothing to
gravel vac (all their activity keeps the sand spotless, and after eating
they return to the underbrush. The also don't blow too much sand out of
the sand box, so the set-up seems stable. Their barbels are extremely
long (I use barbel length as a general indicator of substrate quality).

You would like this tank Mar. I put it right beside my counter so that I
can enjoy them. I think I have 7 types of Corys (and another 5 types in
the other 60g holding tank) and being wild caught, I had ordered only
unusual ones. In this particular tank, I think I have about 150 Corys,
so talk about shoaling :o). The only mid-water occupant is a single
Betta (reminds me of an Eagle soaring over herds of Buffalo. Of course
when I put the nets in to catch someone, they all do a Houdini, but
customers don't seem to mind waiting a bit longer and we all get paid by
the hour ;~)
--
www.NetMax.tk

"MarAzul" > wrote in message
news:Vxcyc.12050$fZ1.511@fed1read03...
> If you're only planning to get 6 then I would either get 2 groups of 3
or 6
> of the same. I personally have 20 in my 60 gallon - 5 different species
(6
> if you consider albinos different that aeneus).
>
> Also, to add to what NetMax said "Different species will sometimes
ignore
> each other, so you can't count on them shoaling together."
> That's true, however it's also true that some same-species will ignore
each
> other while others are very 'close'. I have 6 bronze cats and they
don't
> spend much time in each others company. However, I recently got some
Spotted
> Corys and those guys never leave each others side. All-in-all though,
my
> corys hang out with whichever species is close to them. They aren't too
> picky.
>
> Mar
> --------------------------------------------------
> If the poodle got loose, I figured I could take it. I was armed.
> - Laurell K. Hamilton from the Anita Blake series
>
>
> "Hamlet" > wrote in message
> om...
> > later add 4-6 cories of various types
> >
> > 4. Cories are schooling fish. How many should I get to keep them
> > happy? Is it ok to mix them a little for variety?
>
>

[Hamlet]

Thanks for the replies. An update:

I've decided to go with plastic plants. I figure its one less thing
to deal with initially. Note to Dick-- the light I have seems to be
plenty bright for viewing fish. I have white gravel, and when the
light is on the tank glows. Maybe I read the tube wrong. I'll just
skip the plants for now.

I'm planning on shopping for a few fish tonight (platies)

Eventually I expect my tank to look like:

4 platies
3 swordtails
6 cories (3 of two different kinds) (these will be added last after
the tank is done cycling. Should I add them in two groups of three a
week apart?

Am I close to the limit with this? Dick seemed to think that the fry
would become overwhelming. Should I add something to eat fry?
Suggestions? Maybe an angelfish?

[Dick]

On 11 Jun 2004 10:58:27 -0700, (Hamlet)
wrote:

>Thanks for the replies. An update:
>
>I've decided to go with plastic plants. I figure its one less thing
>to deal with initially. Note to Dick-- the light I have seems to be
>plenty bright for viewing fish. I have white gravel, and when the
>light is on the tank glows. Maybe I read the tube wrong. I'll just
>skip the plants for now.
>
>I'm planning on shopping for a few fish tonight (platies)
>
>Eventually I expect my tank to look like:
>
>4 platies
>3 swordtails
>6 cories (3 of two different kinds) (these will be added last after
>the tank is done cycling. Should I add them in two groups of three a
>week apart?
>
>Am I close to the limit with this? Dick seemed to think that the fry
>would become overwhelming. Should I add something to eat fry?
>Suggestions? Maybe an angelfish?


I only mean they can become a problem without advanced planning unless
you don't mind killing the extra fish or coping with over crowding.
Live bearers do enjoy breeding, the males are always doing their part.
Fry are fun to watch. But, the fry become adults and the cycle
continues. I suspect any cichlid would do. I forget your tank size,
but consider the fish to your tank size and anticipated population.

BTW, this is not hypothetical. I am trying to figure a solution to my
situation. I don't like killing any of my fish, but have far more
mollies than I want. I have made many offers to give them away. When
they seemed large enough I gave about 10 to a friend that has
cichlids. They all disappeared. I now move fry to my 75 gallon tank.
I don't know who is eating the fry, but that is not 100%, some still
survive.

I hope others will make comments of how they handle this problem.

dick

[MarAzul]

Wow! I don't suppose the cories will hold still long enough for pics, eh? :)

I used to have larger rounded gravel for my substrate, and the cories were
okay with that. With the 60 though, I went with Eco-Complete Plant Substrate
and they enjoy it much more (so do my Jurupari's..).

Oh, and since we're OT and on the topic of cories... :) How unusual/rare
are Corydoras reticulatus? I haven't spoken to my LFS yet about getting any,
but I'm curious how difficult it will be.

Mar
--------------------------------------------------
If the poodle got loose, I figured I could take it. I was armed.
- Laurell K. Hamilton from the Anita Blake series


"NetMax" > wrote in message
...
> About the Corys not shoaling, you are so right. I worry less in this
> case, as I've done my bit by getting a large enough crowd, and if they
> want to break into smaller groups or be individuals, then that's their
> decision.
>
> At work, I picked up a box of wild-caught Corys from Columbia. I had
> about 300 of them divided between two 60g tanks (commercial filtration
> systems). In one of the 60s, I tiered the gravel up (using western cedar
> on its sides attached to slate), and I'm about 50% planted (which is
> fairly dense) on the upper levels. I then took a reptile water dish
> (about 7" in dia.) and made them a sandbox right in the front (filled
> with a light pink crushed bone sand, bone because my kH is too low), and
> pushed the sandbox into the gravel (small smooth natural coloured
> gravel). I drop their food into the sandbox, and they are quite well
> trained now. Besides being beneficial for their barbels, I thought the
> sand would let them dig and play more and I could easily gravel vac off
> the sand periodically. They don't bury themselves too deeply
> (occasionally I find one about 1cm deep in it), and there is nothing to
> gravel vac (all their activity keeps the sand spotless, and after eating
> they return to the underbrush. The also don't blow too much sand out of
> the sand box, so the set-up seems stable. Their barbels are extremely
> long (I use barbel length as a general indicator of substrate quality).
>
> You would like this tank Mar. I put it right beside my counter so that I
> can enjoy them. I think I have 7 types of Corys (and another 5 types in
> the other 60g holding tank) and being wild caught, I had ordered only
> unusual ones. In this particular tank, I think I have about 150 Corys,
> so talk about shoaling :o). The only mid-water occupant is a single
> Betta (reminds me of an Eagle soaring over herds of Buffalo. Of course
> when I put the nets in to catch someone, they all do a Houdini, but
> customers don't seem to mind waiting a bit longer and we all get paid by
> the hour ;~)
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>

[NetMax]

Hmm.. Corys : ) Here are my fav sites:
http://www.corydoras.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ and
http://www.scotcat.com/home.htm and of course
http://www.planetcatfish.com/core/

I think that I have some reticulatus right now. They were not on my
order sheet, but with wild caught, what you get is what's in the net when
they pull it out of the water. They look at how many Corys you ordered
and how many types, and ship something approximate. I consider myself
lucky when they hit 75% order accuracy. Occasionally that surprise 25%
can have interesting stuff, but it's usually something routine, they skim
off the really rare stuff before it makes its way from Columbia up to
Canada :o(

I couldn't tell you how rare they are, but I haven't seen it on any of my
farmed fish stock lists, so you might have some trouble. Speaking of
Geos, they shipped me 2 dozen Surinamensis. Really nice, with a pink
outline on their fins and sides... sweet :o) It was a special order for
a local breeder who is going to start them here.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"MarAzul" > wrote in message
news:Vg2zc.26556$fZ1.5137@fed1read03...
> Wow! I don't suppose the cories will hold still long enough for pics,
eh? :)
>
> I used to have larger rounded gravel for my substrate, and the cories
were
> okay with that. With the 60 though, I went with Eco-Complete Plant
Substrate
> and they enjoy it much more (so do my Jurupari's..).
>
> Oh, and since we're OT and on the topic of cories... :) How
unusual/rare
> are Corydoras reticulatus? I haven't spoken to my LFS yet about getting
any,
> but I'm curious how difficult it will be.
>
> Mar
> --------------------------------------------------
> If the poodle got loose, I figured I could take it. I was armed.
> - Laurell K. Hamilton from the Anita Blake series
>
>
> "NetMax" > wrote in message
> ...
> > About the Corys not shoaling, you are so right. I worry less in this
> > case, as I've done my bit by getting a large enough crowd, and if
they
> > want to break into smaller groups or be individuals, then that's
their
> > decision.
> >
> > At work, I picked up a box of wild-caught Corys from Columbia. I had
> > about 300 of them divided between two 60g tanks (commercial
filtration
> > systems). In one of the 60s, I tiered the gravel up (using western
cedar
> > on its sides attached to slate), and I'm about 50% planted (which is
> > fairly dense) on the upper levels. I then took a reptile water dish
> > (about 7" in dia.) and made them a sandbox right in the front (filled
> > with a light pink crushed bone sand, bone because my kH is too low),
and
> > pushed the sandbox into the gravel (small smooth natural coloured
> > gravel). I drop their food into the sandbox, and they are quite well
> > trained now. Besides being beneficial for their barbels, I thought
the
> > sand would let them dig and play more and I could easily gravel vac
off
> > the sand periodically. They don't bury themselves too deeply
> > (occasionally I find one about 1cm deep in it), and there is nothing
to
> > gravel vac (all their activity keeps the sand spotless, and after
eating
> > they return to the underbrush. The also don't blow too much sand out
of
> > the sand box, so the set-up seems stable. Their barbels are
extremely
> > long (I use barbel length as a general indicator of substrate
quality).
> >
> > You would like this tank Mar. I put it right beside my counter so
that I
> > can enjoy them. I think I have 7 types of Corys (and another 5 types
in
> > the other 60g holding tank) and being wild caught, I had ordered only
> > unusual ones. In this particular tank, I think I have about 150
Corys,
> > so talk about shoaling :o). The only mid-water occupant is a single
> > Betta (reminds me of an Eagle soaring over herds of Buffalo. Of
course
> > when I put the nets in to catch someone, they all do a Houdini, but
> > customers don't seem to mind waiting a bit longer and we all get paid
by
> > the hour ;~)
> > --
> > www.NetMax.tk
> >
>
>