octopus climbing out of tanks

[Nehmo]

There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
true?

--
(||) Nehmo (||)

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

On Apr 13, 1:44 am, "Nehmo" > wrote:
> There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> true?
> (||) Nehmo (||)


I'd heard that story somewhere, but the closest I can find on the web
is the following, which is very unlikely to be on video...

P

http://www.faculty.uaf.edu/ffrsb/outreach/articles/intelligence.html
"In 1873, a stock of young lump-fish in the Brighton Aquarium began
to slowly diminish for no apparent reason. Almost daily, there was one
less fish in the tank and no clues as to what had happened. One early
morning the mystery was solved when an aquarium official found an
octopus in the lump fishes' tank. The octopus somehow had discovered
that the fish were in an adjoining tank, and had thereafter raided it
nightly. To avoid detection, every night after its meal, the octopus
would return to its tank looking innocent of any wrong doing. But this
was not the end. After its capture, the octopus seemed to know that it
was being watched, so it remained in its tank for a week. Then one
night, two octopuses climbed out of the tank, the previous offender
and another, moved in opposite directions, both avoiding the adjacent
tanks and entered those beyond. Unfortunately for both octopuses, one
found itself in a tank with several over-sized crabs and the other
with a giant lobster."

[Nehmo]

That story seems to say the crabs would win against the octopus. I
suppose it depends on how big they were. But, yes, you're right,
there's no video. Certainly, videos back then were rare.

I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.

But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit
for. I knew a girl who used to take walks on Portuguese fishing boats.
She said there were piles of freshly-caught still-alive octopuses on
the deck. When you walked past, the octopuses would follow you with
their eyes. She said you could see the expression of resignation an
pleading in their eyes.

--
(||) Nehmo (||)
-----------------------------------

On Apr 13, 3:59 am, "Pushmi-Pullyu" > wrote:
> I'd heard that story somewhere, but the closest I can find on the web
> is the following, which is very unlikely to be on video...
> http://www.faculty.uaf.edu/ffrsb/outreach/articles/intelligence.html
> "In 1873, a stock of young lump-fish in the Brighton Aquarium began
> to slowly diminish for no apparent reason. Almost daily, there was one
> less fish in the tank and no clues as to what had happened. One early
> morning the mystery was solved when an aquarium official found an
> octopus in the lump fishes' tank. The octopus somehow had discovered
> that the fish were in an adjoining tank, and had thereafter raided it
> nightly. To avoid detection, every night after its meal, the octopus
> would return to its tank looking innocent of any wrong doing. But this
> was not the end. After its capture, the octopus seemed to know that it
> was being watched, so it remained in its tank for a week. Then one
> night, two octopuses climbed out of the tank, the previous offender
> and another, moved in opposite directions, both avoiding the adjacent
> tanks and entered those beyond. Unfortunately for both octopuses, one
> found itself in a tank with several over-sized crabs and the other
> with a giant lobster."

[Marksfish]

There is a thread on the forum I use here:
http://www.marinefish-uk.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=11659&hl=octopus
about the same sort of thing, but they also mention ells as well! No link to
any footage though unfortunately.

Mark

[R H Draney]

Pushmi-Pullyu filted:
>
>http://www.faculty.uaf.edu/ffrsb/outreach/articles/intelligence.html
> "In 1873, a stock of young lump-fish in the Brighton Aquarium began
>to slowly diminish for no apparent reason. Almost daily, there was one
>less fish in the tank and no clues as to what had happened. One early
>morning the mystery was solved when an aquarium official found an
>octopus in the lump fishes' tank. The octopus somehow had discovered
>that the fish were in an adjoining tank, and had thereafter raided it
>nightly. To avoid detection, every night after its meal, the octopus
>would return to its tank looking innocent of any wrong doing. But this
>was not the end. After its capture, the octopus seemed to know that it
>was being watched, so it remained in its tank for a week. Then one
>night, two octopuses climbed out of the tank, the previous offender
>and another, moved in opposite directions, both avoiding the adjacent
>tanks and entered those beyond. Unfortunately for both octopuses, one
>found itself in a tank with several over-sized crabs and the other
>with a giant lobster."

There are two parts of this story that bother me more than the idea that an
octopus might travel from one tank to another...to wit:

a) "somehow had discovered" - I'd love to know how that happened...did one just
get out of its tank on a lark and happen to stumble across the tank full of
yummy edible fish?...

b) "looking innocent of any wrong doing" - intelligent I'll give you, but how
well does the body language of guilt and shame transfer across a species-gap
like that?...

Elsethread someone mentions "cephalopod porn"...I've seen video shot in the
aftermath of a deep-sea vent opening and raising the local temperature, in which
many species multiplied and grew prolifically...one brief sequence shows a pair
of octopuses [1] fondling each other...the narrator points out that not only are
they of two completely different species, but they're both male....

R H "does octopus hentai involve tentacles too?" Draney

[1] http://members.cox.net/bagelhenge/octo.jpg


--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[Bill Turlock]

Nehmo wrote:
>
> That story seems to say the crabs would win against the octopus. I
> suppose it depends on how big they were. But, yes, you're right,
> there's no video. Certainly, videos back then were rare.
>
> I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
> Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
> bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.
>
> But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit
> for. I knew a girl who used to take walks on Portuguese fishing boats.
> She said there were piles of freshly-caught still-alive octopuses on
> the deck. When you walked past, the octopuses would follow you with
> their eyes. She said you could see the expression of resignation an
> pleading in their eyes.


Don't anthropomorphize the octupii, they hate that.

But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it. I suspect that
they are very intelligent. But not intelligent enough to avoid
getting caught.

Bill

[Alan Brooks]

"Bill Turlock" <"Bill Turlock > wrote:

> Don't anthropomorphize the octupii, they hate that.
>
> But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
> long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
> unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it. I suspect that
> they are very intelligent. But not intelligent enough to avoid
> getting caught.

An effective bait for catching octopuses (Fowler discourages the use of
"octopi") is said to be a colorful bit of rag at the end of a fishing line
(cf. John Fowles, "The Magus"), which seems to set an upper bound on this
cephalopod's intelligence.

Alan "Just as a bit of rag in Filene's Basement does ours" Brooks

[Hatunen]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:00:45 -0700, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock
> wrote:


>But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
>long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
>unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it.

I saw that on one of the Histcovery channels a few years back.
They did an hour about octopuses.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

[John Varela]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 04:44:53 -0400, Nehmo wrote
(in article om>):

> There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> true?

I recall seeing that on some TV nature show.

That or some similar show had video of octopuses in the wild camouflaging
themselves. It was amazing, how what had every appearance of being part of a
multicolored coral tree would suddenly take the shape of an octopus and swim
away. It was pointed out that this cell-by-cell color and shape changing
requires a lot of data processing, which leads to the suspicion that
cephalopods may be a lot smarter than one would think.

--
John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.

[Veronique]

On Apr 13, 1:44 am, "Nehmo" > wrote:
> There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> true?


I heard this directly from a curator at the Monterey Bay Aquarium: a
particular mollusk kept being reduced to shells in one tank and no one
couldn't figure out what had happened, although initially the octopus
in the next tank over was suspected. The octopus' tank had a lid and
the lid remained undisturbed, however, so that couldn't be it. A video
finally captured the octopus sliding open the lid of its tank,
escaping to the mollusk tank and having a meal, returning to its tank
*and sliding the lid closed*.


V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[Pszemol]

"Nehmo" > wrote in message ps.com...
> That story seems to say the crabs would win against the octopus. I
> suppose it depends on how big they were. But, yes, you're right,
> there's no video. Certainly, videos back then were rare.
>
> I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
> Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
> bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.

There was a video about it, it is called "The Octopus Show".
It is part of NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC "Journeys With Wildlife" series.
I got it on DVD from eBay.co.uk - maybe you will find it also.
I do not remember if there is actual scene in the movie with octopus
actually doing the trick or if there is only a verbal report about it
done by the comentary voice...

> But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit
> for. I knew a girl who used to take walks on Portuguese fishing boats.
> She said there were piles of freshly-caught still-alive octopuses on
> the deck. When you walked past, the octopuses would follow you with
> their eyes. She said you could see the expression of resignation an
> pleading in their eyes.

Typical example of applying human interpretation to animals...
Not necessairly true interpretation.

[Don Geddis]

"Nehmo" > wrote on 13 Apr 2007 03:1:
> I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
> Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
> bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.

Have you read any advice about keeping octopuses as in home tanks? They
*all* say that it's an absolute requirements to have a secured, locked lid on
top of the tank. Octopusus are well known for being able to escape out of
supposedly-secure tanks, through any opening no bigger than their beaks.
They can definitely unscrew jar lids, unlatch locks, and walk across dry land.
There's really no question that this is possible, even common. Get yourself
an octopus, put it in an open tank, put on a night-vision camera, and I'm
sure you can make the video you wish within days or perhaps even hours.

In public aquaria (which have huge tanks, huge octopuses, and are difficult to
fully secure in 3D), the keep-them-in-their-cage trick seems to be astroturf.
For reasons that aren't fully understood, octopuses don't seem to like to walk
across astroturf. So the big open tanks that have octopuses in them tend to
have a foot or two of astroturf border nailed around the top rim.

> But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit for.

There are lots of experiments involving puzzle-solving with octopuses.
Opening sealed jars with food inside, escaping from tanks, etc. They're
pretty well known to be among the most intelligent animals in the world
(like dolphins, whales, dogs, monkeys, etc.).

Also (vaguely related), for fun, don't miss the "Octopus vs. Shark" video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dV6upaCvo

__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
The only use of Tae Kwon Leep is self defense. Do you know who said that?
Ki Lo Nee, the great teacher. -- "Boot to the Head", The Frantics

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Alan Brooks > said:
>An effective bait for catching octopuses (Fowler discourages the use of
>"octopi") is said to be a colorful bit of rag at the end of a fishing line
>(cf. John Fowles, "The Magus"), which seems to set an upper bound on this
>cephalopod's intelligence.

Yeah, but you're only catching the dumb ones.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
I find that anthropomorphism really doesn't help me deal with hardware all
that much, because it lends a certain attitude of disdain to what would
otherwise be a mere malfunction. -- Carl Jacobs

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

On Apr 13, 9:00 am, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock >
wrote:

> Don't anthropomorphize the octupii, they hate that.
> But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
> long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
> unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it. I suspect that
> they are very intelligent. But not intelligent enough to avoid
> getting caught.


You only think that because you don't know about the ones that haven't
been caught.

P

[Mike Williams]

Wasn't it Bill Turlock who wrote:
>
>But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
>long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
>unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it.

I remember seeing something very similar to that, but at no time was the
octopus out of the water. It squeezed through water-filled tubes and
through narrow holes, but never crossed a dry surface.

--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure

[Bill Turlock]

Mike Williams wrote:
>
> Wasn't it Bill Turlock who wrote:
> >
> >But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
> >long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
> >unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it.
>
> I remember seeing something very similar to that, but at no time was the
> octopus out of the water. It squeezed through water-filled tubes and
> through narrow holes, but never crossed a dry surface.
>

OK, revise that to read, "I not very clearly remember..."

[Wayne Sallee]

Yep, it's true. There are many accounts of octopus
climbing out of aquariums and eating from nearby
aquariums. And there are many reports of people
finding them flat on the floor, and they pick them
up with a spatula and put them back in the aquarium.

And there are also many incidences of fish jumping
out of aquariums, so I don't know why people would
be surprised for an octopus to climb out of the
aquarium :-)

At the same time there are reports of people keeping
octopus without any covering and claim that it never
got out. But then how do they know that it never got
out? :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Nehmo wrote on 4/13/2007 3:44 AM:
> There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> true?
>
> --
> (||) Nehmo (||)
>

[Tidepool Geek]

Howdy,

Octopuses are often very accomplished escape artists and crawling
across a few feet of dry surface is within the capabilities of a large
one; I'm sure that the distance capability would be related as much to
size as to species. That said, I'm also sure that when an octo climbs
out of the water its number one priority becomes finding some other
water to climb into, available food would be a side issue.

What is fairly common is for an octo to 'visit' other tanks via shared
plumbing. Unscreened drain lines especially are plenty big enough for
even a good sized GPO to fit. I'm not aware of any video but there are
numerous stories from public aquariums in the Pacific Northwest of
GPO's sneaking into an adjoining tank for a crab dinner and then
returning to its own tank and den.

I very much doubt that an octopus would be bothered by finding itself
in a tank with large crab or lobster, both of which are prey items for
octos. They might be too big for a given octo to capture and eat but
it's pretty unlikely that they'd present any threat either.

BTW: Here's a link to a Google video (39 seconds) of an octopus
escaping through a one inch hole:
http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=4007016107763801953

Regarding the "food in a jar" trick: As I understand it, the original
experiment was carried out in the wild and went something like this:

1. A researcher using SCUBA located and developed a rapport with one
particular Octopus (I vaguely recall that it was in the Mediterranean)
by feeding it shrimp.

2. One day the researcher showed the octo the shrimp, put the shrimp
in a jar, closed the jar with a cork, and gave the jar to the octo.
The octo took several minutes to figure out how to open the jar and
then ate the shrimp.

3. The experiment was repeated several days later and the octo opened
the jar almost immediately; possibly demonstrating memory or the
ability to learn an artificial task.

4. On a subsequent repetition of the experiment the researcher showed
the shrimp to the octo whereupon the octo swam into the jar and waited
for his meal!

At the Feiro Marine Life Center, where I volunteer, we would give our
smaller GPO (tip to tip arm-span ~ 4 or 5 feet) a squid in an old
peanut butter jar (clean of course) with a plastic screw top lid. On
the first try it took her about five minutes to get to her meal;
subsequently she would remove the lid in under a minute.
Unfortunately, one of our staff decided to give her a crab as a treat
and thereafter she completely lost interest in squid - in or out of
the jar. We also tried the jar on our larger GPO (5 or 6 feet tip to
tip) and she also managed to figure it out but there was no repetition
after we learned how difficult it was to retrieve the empty jar from
her den. [Her tank is almost five feet deep.]

As to escape proofing an octopus tank - Ya gotta do it! Nine times out
of ten escaping means a death sentence for the animal since they're
most likely to try when there isn't anyone around to put them back. I
don't know if this is just Murphy's Law or a case of the octopus
waiting for everyone to leave. Having said that, the likelihood of an
escape attempt seems related to species and individual personality. O.
rubescens has a reputation as being an absolute demon escape artist,
probably because they've evolved to sometimes live in the intertidal
region - they don't find being out of water to be nearly as traumatic
as do some other species. OTOH: The popular O. bimaculoides (the Two-
Spot octo) seems to be far less likely to escape. The Enteroctopus
dofleini (GPO's) that we keep each year all seem to react differently
to captivity; some absolutely hate it and are constantly trying to
escape while others seem to think that free food and no predators is a
pretty sweet deal. [We return the unhappy ones to the wild as soon as
their dissatisfaction becomes apparent.]

About the two male octopuses "fondling" each other: I'd be very
surprised if, in reality, they weren't trying to work out who was
going to 'have' dinner and who was going to 'be' dinner.


Cannibalistically yours,

Alex

[Haywood Jablowme]

A number of years ago, my next door neighbor worked as an Aquarist at
Sea World (in Orlando, Florida). He told me that this actually
happened there. An octopus was observed leaving it's tank, "walking"
about 5 feet, entering another tank, catching and eating a fish, and
returning to it's tank. As unbelievable as it sounds, according to Sea
World Orlando, this is an established fact. These are indeed very
intelligent animals.

hj


In article . com>,
Veronique > wrote:

> On Apr 13, 1:44 am, "Nehmo" > wrote:
> > There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> > traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> > fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> > comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> > anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> > true?
>
>
> I heard this directly from a curator at the Monterey Bay Aquarium: a
> particular mollusk kept being reduced to shells in one tank and no one
> couldn't figure out what had happened, although initially the octopus
> in the next tank over was suspected. The octopus' tank had a lid and
> the lid remained undisturbed, however, so that couldn't be it. A video
> finally captured the octopus sliding open the lid of its tank,
> escaping to the mollusk tank and having a meal, returning to its tank
> *and sliding the lid closed*.
>
>
> V.
> --
> Veronique Chez Sheep
>
>
>
>

[Mike Williams]

Wasn't it Haywood Jablowme who wrote:
>
>A number of years ago, my next door neighbor worked as an Aquarist at
>Sea World (in Orlando, Florida). He told me that this actually
>happened there. An octopus was observed leaving it's tank, "walking"
>about 5 feet, entering another tank, catching and eating a fish, and
>returning to it's tank. As unbelievable as it sounds, according to Sea
>World Orlando, this is an established fact. These are indeed very
>intelligent animals.

Well yes, we started from the idea that there are lots of friend-of-a-
friend type stories about this.

--
Mike Williams
Gentleman of Leisure

[Lee Ayrton]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, Pushmi-Pullyu wrote:

> On Apr 13, 9:00 am, Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock >
> wrote:
>
>> Don't anthropomorphize the octupii, they hate that.
>> But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
>> long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
>> unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it. I suspect that
>> they are very intelligent. But not intelligent enough to avoid
>> getting caught.
>
> You only think that because you don't know about the ones that haven't
> been caught.

I'm reminded of the story about the study conducted on prisoners that
determined that criminals are generally of low intelligence.





--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.

[Nehmo]

On Apr 13, 11:09 pm, Mike Williams > wrote:
> Well yes, we started from the idea that there are lots of friend-of-a-
> friend type stories about this.

This thread has reached twenty-something (including one spam) and no
one has provided any video, or anything but hearsay, of an octopus
doing anything except going through a hole and another of fighting a
shark. For now, I'll have to conclude octopuses don't go on nighttime
excursions outside their aquariums.

I was just in a fish (for food) store, and I'm in Kansas, quite far
from an ocean. They had octopus for less than $3/pound. They must be
reasonably prevalent, and there must be people who buy them.
--
(||) Nehmo (||)

[Wayne Sallee]

Nehmo wrote on 4/15/2007 5:00 AM:
> This thread has reached twenty-something (including one spam) and no
> one has provided any video, or anything but hearsay, of an octopus
> doing anything except going through a hole and another of fighting a
> shark. For now, I'll have to conclude octopuses don't go on nighttime
> excursions outside their aquariums.
>

Your right, it's a conspiracy. Octopus don't get out
of the aquariums. What is really happening is that
people are going to the aquariums in the night, and
grabbing the octopus out of the aquarium, and
throwing them on the floor, and claiming that they
got out. And the same thing is happening with fish
and crabs, and other critters as well.

hehehehehehehehe

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

[Paul Cassel]

Nehmo wrote:

> This thread has reached twenty-something (including one spam) and no
> one has provided any video,

Buy it here:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/octopus/

-paul

[Bill Turlock]

Nehmo wrote:
>
> On Apr 13, 11:09 pm, Mike Williams > wrote:
> > Well yes, we started from the idea that there are lots of friend-of-a-
> > friend type stories about this.
>
> This thread has reached twenty-something (including one spam) and no
> one has provided any video, or anything but hearsay, of an octopus
> doing anything except going through a hole and another of fighting a
> shark. For now, I'll have to conclude octopuses don't go on nighttime
> excursions outside their aquariums.
>
> I was just in a fish (for food) store, and I'm in Kansas, quite far
> from an ocean. They had octopus for less than $3/pound. They must be
> reasonably prevalent, and there must be people who buy them.


If you can't find it on YouTube, it doesn't exist.

[Nehmo]

At this point, there's no evidence of fish missing or wet floors. Yes,
people make things up. And people often elaborate on a true fact. I
believe octopuses open lids of aquariums. That's plausible. But
steeling from another aquarium and returning to their own, I'm afraid
it's an urban myth.

I would like to believe otherwise. As soon as you find some evidence,
let me know please.
--
(||) Nehmo (||)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
uOn Apr 15, 7:38 am, Wayne Sallee > wrote:
> Your right, it's a conspiracy. Octopus don't get out
> of the aquariums. What is really happening is that
> people are going to the aquariums in the night, and
> grabbing the octopus out of the aquarium, and
> throwing them on the floor, and claiming that they
> got out. And the same thing is happening with fish
> and crabs, and other critters as well.
>
> hehehehehehehehe

[Greg Goss]

Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock > wrote:

>Nehmo wrote:
>>
>> That story seems to say the crabs would win against the octopus. I
>> suppose it depends on how big they were. But, yes, you're right,
>> there's no video. Certainly, videos back then were rare.
>>
>> I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
>> Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
>> bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.
>>
>> But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit
>> for. I knew a girl who used to take walks on Portuguese fishing boats.
>> She said there were piles of freshly-caught still-alive octopuses on
>> the deck. When you walked past, the octopuses would follow you with
>> their eyes. She said you could see the expression of resignation an
>> pleading in their eyes.
>
>
>Don't anthropomorphize the octupii, they hate that.
>
>But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
>long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
>unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it. I suspect that
>they are very intelligent. But not intelligent enough to avoid
>getting caught.

The version of that story that I'd heard was to prove that an octopus
could generalize from watching something. They left the screwtop jar
in one octopus tank and the octopus had no idea what to do with it.
Then, in an adjacent tank, they added an octopus that had been trained
to open such a jar to get at dinner. After watching a few times, the
"naive" octopus was able to open the jar, too.
--
Tomorrow is today already.
Greg Goss, 1989-01-27

[Bill Turlock]

Greg Goss wrote:
>
> Bill Turlock <"Bill Turlock > wrote:
>
> >Nehmo wrote:
> >>
> >> That story seems to say the crabs would win against the octopus. I
> >> suppose it depends on how big they were. But, yes, you're right,
> >> there's no video. Certainly, videos back then were rare.
> >>
> >> I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
> >> Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
> >> bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.
> >>
> >> But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit
> >> for. I knew a girl who used to take walks on Portuguese fishing boats.
> >> She said there were piles of freshly-caught still-alive octopuses on
> >> the deck. When you walked past, the octopuses would follow you with
> >> their eyes. She said you could see the expression of resignation an
> >> pleading in their eyes.
> >
> >
> >Don't anthropomorphize the octupii, they hate that.
> >
> >But, all seriousnes aside, I clearly remember seeing a film a
> >long time ago where an octupus would crawl out of its tank and
> >unscrew a mason jar with a food-critter in it. I suspect that
> >they are very intelligent. But not intelligent enough to avoid
> >getting caught.
>
> The version of that story that I'd heard was to prove that an octopus
> could generalize from watching something. They left the screwtop jar
> in one octopus tank and the octopus had no idea what to do with it.
> Then, in an adjacent tank, they added an octopus that had been trained
> to open such a jar to get at dinner. After watching a few times, the
> "naive" octopus was able to open the jar, too.


OK. Then, what I remember is an octopus and a screw-top jar.

[TMOliver]

"Nehmo" > wrote ...

> I was just in a fish (for food) store, and I'm in Kansas, quite far
> from an ocean. They had octopus for less than $3/pound. They must be
> reasonably prevalent, and there must be people who buy them.
> --

Obviously, a number of folks migrating to Kansas have carried along one of
the necessary components for octopus, the eating thereof....

The large and traditional rock upon which to slap repeatedly the slimy
boogers for pre-culinary tenderizing. A concrete back step/stoop works but
gives up the flavors of all what have trod upon it, and a large coastal
boulder is preferable.

A dozen good licks, a sharp knife and a dab hand at the sauté pan and such
dishes as "pulpos y arroz en tinta" become possible, even on Tuesday night.
"En escabeche", a sort of traditional tapas, is but the labor of moments.

TM "Ola, Cantinero. Saddle my horse." Oliver

[swarvegorilla]

"Nehmo" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> true?
>
> --
> (||) Nehmo (||)
>


In my experience, when octopus climb out of tanks, they die on the floor.
Got no bones ya see.
Yes I can see them moving accross into another tank on same rack
but once they drop to the floor
they are almost a jellyfish
So while it may have happened
I assure ya, most octopus that escape tanks, die pretty close to where they
land.
:-)

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

On Apr 15, 10:20 am, "Nehmo" > wrote:
> At this point, there's no evidence of fish missing or wet floors. Yes,
> people make things up. And people often elaborate on a true fact. I
> believe octopuses open lids of aquariums. That's plausible. But
> steeling from another aquarium and returning to their own, I'm afraid
> it's an urban myth.
>
> I would like to believe otherwise. As soon as you find some evidence,
> let me know please.


Cynicism is the last refuge of the cynical.

P.

[swarvegorilla]

"Don Geddis" > wrote in message
...
> "Nehmo" > wrote on 13 Apr 2007 03:1:
>> I'm beginning to conclude the traveling-oct story has no truth to it.
>> Since plenty of people keep them as aquarium subjects, behavior as
>> bizarre as this would have been better documented by now.
>

Yea I agree,
sure they might grab things in a close by tank
but they aint very good at crosscountry
and they suck at climbing tanks and getting BACK INTO THEM.
usually ya get an ink spot on ya floor where they die
:-(


> Have you read any advice about keeping octopuses as in home tanks? They
> *all* say that it's an absolute requirements to have a secured, locked lid
> on
> top of the tank. Octopusus are well known for being able to escape out of
> supposedly-secure tanks, through any opening no bigger than their beaks.
> They can definitely unscrew jar lids, unlatch locks, and walk across dry
> land.

'walk accross dry land'
I think not.
They can drag themselves from rockpool to rockpool
but walk they cannot.


> There's really no question that this is possible, even common. Get
> yourself
> an octopus, put it in an open tank, put on a night-vision camera, and I'm
> sure you can make the video you wish within days or perhaps even hours.


Actually I often have to remove lids from octopus tanks in summer as it gets
hot here.
It is a rare thing for an octopus to leave a tank if it's happy in there and
got lots of live food.
Why is my experience so different? I don't know but I can say that if an
ocky wants to escape they are good at it....
just don't seem to want to very often.


>
> In public aquaria (which have huge tanks, huge octopuses, and are
> difficult to
> fully secure in 3D), the keep-them-in-their-cage trick seems to be
> astroturf.
> For reasons that aren't fully understood, octopuses don't seem to like to
> walk
> across astroturf. So the big open tanks that have octopuses in them tend
> to
> have a foot or two of astroturf border nailed around the top rim.

astroturf will rot in time
I have found the plastic canvas strips to works well
altho I did glue velcro straps onto the tank to attach it with.....
heh
that said they don't usually try escape
and when they do they are hard to stop


>
>> But they are strange and probably smarter than we give them credit for.
>
> There are lots of experiments involving puzzle-solving with octopuses.
> Opening sealed jars with food inside, escaping from tanks, etc. They're
> pretty well known to be among the most intelligent animals in the world
> (like dolphins, whales, dogs, monkeys, etc.).
>
> Also (vaguely related), for fun, don't miss the "Octopus vs. Shark" video:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4dV6upaCvo



anyway www.tonmo.com is a good spot for ceph info
great pets they are
great pets


>
> __________________________________________________ _____________________________
> Don Geddis
> http://reef.geddis.org/
> The only use of Tae Kwon Leep is self defense. Do you know who said that?
> Ki Lo Nee, the great teacher. -- "Boot to the Head", The Frantics

[swarvegorilla]

"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
> Pushmi-Pullyu filted:
>>
>>http://www.faculty.uaf.edu/ffrsb/outreach/articles/intelligence.html
>> "In 1873, a stock of young lump-fish in the Brighton Aquarium began
>>to slowly diminish for no apparent reason. Almost daily, there was one
>>less fish in the tank and no clues as to what had happened. One early
>>morning the mystery was solved when an aquarium official found an
>>octopus in the lump fishes' tank. The octopus somehow had discovered
>>that the fish were in an adjoining tank, and had thereafter raided it
>>nightly. To avoid detection, every night after its meal, the octopus
>>would return to its tank looking innocent of any wrong doing. But this
>>was not the end. After its capture, the octopus seemed to know that it
>>was being watched, so it remained in its tank for a week. Then one
>>night, two octopuses climbed out of the tank, the previous offender
>>and another, moved in opposite directions, both avoiding the adjacent
>>tanks and entered those beyond. Unfortunately for both octopuses, one
>>found itself in a tank with several over-sized crabs and the other
>>with a giant lobster."
>
> There are two parts of this story that bother me more than the idea that
> an
> octopus might travel from one tank to another...to wit:


Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
octopus love lobbys
which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.


>
> a) "somehow had discovered" - I'd love to know how that happened...did
> one just
> get out of its tank on a lark and happen to stumble across the tank full
> of
> yummy edible fish?...
>
> b) "looking innocent of any wrong doing" - intelligent I'll give you, but
> how
> well does the body language of guilt and shame transfer across a
> species-gap
> like that?...
>
> Elsethread someone mentions "cephalopod porn"...I've seen video shot in
> the
> aftermath of a deep-sea vent opening and raising the local temperature, in
> which
> many species multiplied and grew prolifically...one brief sequence shows a
> pair
> of octopuses [1] fondling each other...the narrator points out that not
> only are
> they of two completely different species, but they're both male....
>
> R H "does octopus hentai involve tentacles too?" Draney
>
> [1] http://members.cox.net/bagelhenge/octo.jpg
>
>
> --
> "You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
> "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[swarvegorilla]

"Tidepool Geek" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Howdy,
>
> Octopuses are often very accomplished escape artists and crawling
> across a few feet of dry surface is within the capabilities of a large
> one; I'm sure that the distance capability would be related as much to
> size as to species. That said, I'm also sure that when an octo climbs
> out of the water its number one priority becomes finding some other
> water to climb into, available food would be a side issue.
>
> What is fairly common is for an octo to 'visit' other tanks via shared
> plumbing. Unscreened drain lines especially are plenty big enough for
> even a good sized GPO to fit. I'm not aware of any video but there are
> numerous stories from public aquariums in the Pacific Northwest of
> GPO's sneaking into an adjoining tank for a crab dinner and then
> returning to its own tank and den.
>
> I very much doubt that an octopus would be bothered by finding itself
> in a tank with large crab or lobster, both of which are prey items for
> octos. They might be too big for a given octo to capture and eat but
> it's pretty unlikely that they'd present any threat either.
>
> BTW: Here's a link to a Google video (39 seconds) of an octopus
> escaping through a one inch hole:
> http://video.google.com:80/videoplay?docid=4007016107763801953
>
> Regarding the "food in a jar" trick: As I understand it, the original
> experiment was carried out in the wild and went something like this:
>
> 1. A researcher using SCUBA located and developed a rapport with one
> particular Octopus (I vaguely recall that it was in the Mediterranean)
> by feeding it shrimp.
>
> 2. One day the researcher showed the octo the shrimp, put the shrimp
> in a jar, closed the jar with a cork, and gave the jar to the octo.
> The octo took several minutes to figure out how to open the jar and
> then ate the shrimp.
>
> 3. The experiment was repeated several days later and the octo opened
> the jar almost immediately; possibly demonstrating memory or the
> ability to learn an artificial task.
>
> 4. On a subsequent repetition of the experiment the researcher showed
> the shrimp to the octo whereupon the octo swam into the jar and waited
> for his meal!
>
> At the Feiro Marine Life Center, where I volunteer, we would give our
> smaller GPO (tip to tip arm-span ~ 4 or 5 feet) a squid in an old
> peanut butter jar (clean of course) with a plastic screw top lid. On
> the first try it took her about five minutes to get to her meal;
> subsequently she would remove the lid in under a minute.
> Unfortunately, one of our staff decided to give her a crab as a treat
> and thereafter she completely lost interest in squid - in or out of
> the jar. We also tried the jar on our larger GPO (5 or 6 feet tip to
> tip) and she also managed to figure it out but there was no repetition
> after we learned how difficult it was to retrieve the empty jar from
> her den. [Her tank is almost five feet deep.]
>





"
> As to escape proofing an octopus tank - Ya gotta do it! Nine times out
> of ten escaping means a death sentence for the animal since they're
> most likely to try when there isn't anyone around to put them back.
"

Couldn't agree more!!!
Great post by the way.





I
> don't know if this is just Murphy's Law or a case of the octopus
> waiting for everyone to leave. Having said that, the likelihood of an
> escape attempt seems related to species and individual personality. O.
> rubescens has a reputation as being an absolute demon escape artist,
> probably because they've evolved to sometimes live in the intertidal
> region - they don't find being out of water to be nearly as traumatic
> as do some other species. OTOH: The popular O. bimaculoides (the Two-
> Spot octo) seems to be far less likely to escape. The Enteroctopus
> dofleini (GPO's) that we keep each year all seem to react differently
> to captivity; some absolutely hate it and are constantly trying to
> escape while others seem to think that free food and no predators is a
> pretty sweet deal. [We return the unhappy ones to the wild as soon as
> their dissatisfaction becomes apparent.]
>
> About the two male octopuses "fondling" each other: I'd be very
> surprised if, in reality, they weren't trying to work out who was
> going to 'have' dinner and who was going to 'be' dinner.
>
>
> Cannibalistically yours,
>
> Alex
>

[R H Draney]

swarvegorilla filted:
>
>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>octopus love lobbys
>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.

Do you talk like this in real life or what?...

R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney


--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[swarvegorilla]

"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
> swarvegorilla filted:
>>
>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>>octopus love lobbys
>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>
> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>
> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney


It's called 'Ocka' mate!
Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
I can work it it,
but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
:)

>
>
> --
> "You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
> "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[David DeLaney]

swarvegorilla > wrote:
>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>>>octopus love lobbys
>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>
>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>
>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>
>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>I can work it it,
>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.

Eh, no real worries (insert "mate" here). You're at least giving evidence, it
seems, based on your firsthand experience, rather than on videos or articles
someone you know says they read. And posting like you talk is most certainly
not the worst thing a person can do.

>:)

Dave "that might get you eaten by a grue, however, but we have a small Xpost
allowance in the budget" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Charles Bishop]

In article >, R H Draney
> wrote:

>swarvegorilla filted:
>>
>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>>octopus love lobbys
>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>
>Do you talk like this in real life or what?...

I'm assuming it's Strine. "Crustys" are crabs, "Ockys" are octopodes and
I'm no help with "wobbys" but apparently ockys are afeared of them.
>
>R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney

Alas, it may be too late for him/her/it. Prevention says not to learn
speech in .au.

charles, I speaks real good English, bishop

[Charles Bishop]

In article >,
"swarvegorilla" > wrote:

>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>
>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>>>octopus love lobbys
>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>
>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>
>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>
>
>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>I can work it it,
>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.

Mind translating wobbegong, just one more time, into a language closer to
English as she is spoke?

charles, mate, bishop

[Ken]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:45:11 -0700, (Charles
Bishop) wrote:

>In article >,
>"swarvegorilla" > wrote:
>
>>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
>>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>>
>>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>>>>octopus love lobbys
>>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>>
>>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>>
>>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>>
>>
>>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>>I can work it it,
>>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
>
>Mind translating wobbegong, just one more time, into a language closer to
>English as she is spoke?
>
>charles, mate, bishop
wobbegong shark - a number of species of small shark found in coastal
waters off Australia
http://www.amonline.net.au/FISHES/students/focus/gwobbe.htm
http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/fishfacts/fish/oornatus.htm
http://www.marinethemes.com/ornatewobbe.html
http://www.marinethemes.com/tasselledwobbe.html

[Don Freeman]

"David DeLaney" > wrote in message
...
> swarvegorilla > wrote:
>>
>>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>>I can work it it,
>>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
>
> Eh, no real worries (insert "mate" here). You're at least giving evidence,
> it
> seems, based on your firsthand experience, rather than on videos or
> articles
> someone you know says they read. And posting like you talk is most
> certainly
> not the worst thing a person can do.
>

Plus "swarvegorilla" has great cred in the aquaria groups. Most of which
have been taken over by a long-lived flame war amongst rejects of the mental
variety and his/her post are of the few that are worth reading. Their
insight in this thread is welcome.

Don "has eaten whole (small) octopuses, if that counts for anything" Freeman
--
Ever had one of those days where you just felt like:
http://cosmoslair.com/BadDay.html ?
(Eating the elephant outside the box, one paradigm at a time)

[Pete Wilcox]

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007, Charles Bishop wrote:

>
> I'm assuming it's Strine. "Crustys" are crabs, "Ockys" are octopodes and
> I'm no help with "wobbys" but apparently ockys are afeared of them.
>
Wobbegong sharks, as pointed out by another poster.
Not that I have anything relevant to add to the conversation, but I'm just
pleased that after eight years it's finally come full circle. It's not
octopi, octopii, or octopusses. It's octopodes. And yes, Charles speaks
real good English.

> charles, I speaks real good English, bishop
>
Pete "You put that in there just to provoke me, didn't you, you *******"
Wilcox

[Don Geddis]

"Nehmo" > wrote on 15 Apr 2007 03:0:
> one has provided any video
> For now, I'll have to conclude octopuses don't go on nighttime
> excursions outside their aquariums.

Boy, super use of the scientific method there! Your command of logic is
an inspiration to us all.

> I was just in a fish (for food) store, and I'm in Kansas, quite far
> from an ocean. They had octopus for less than $3/pound. They must be
> reasonably prevalent, and there must be people who buy them.

You can also find octopus to eat at pretty much any Japanese sushi
restaurant. It's a very standard kind of sushi.

Is that supposed to have anything to do with your claims about keeping
them as pets?

-- Don
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
Don Geddis http://reef.geddis.org/
Marriage is a sibling relationship --- marked by occasional, and rather
regrettable, episodes of incest. -- Martin Amis, "Yellow Dog"

[Bill Turlock]

Charles Bishop wrote:
>
> In article >,
> "swarvegorilla" > wrote:
>
> >"R H Draney" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> swarvegorilla filted:
> >>>
> >>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
> >>>octopus love lobbys
> >>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
> >>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
> >>
> >> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
> >>
> >> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
> >
> >
> >It's called 'Ocka' mate!
> >Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
> >Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
> >I can work it it,
> >but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
>
> Mind translating wobbegong, just one more time, into a language closer to
> English as she is spoke?
>
> charles, mate, bishop

In that vein...

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/2007/04/09/070409sh_shouts_alford

http://tinyurl.com/3akdjj

[darkon]

Charles Bishop > wrote:

> In article >,
> "swarvegorilla" > wrote:
>
>>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
>>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>>
>>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is
>>>>my problem. octopus love lobbys
>>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>>
>>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>>
>>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>>
>>
>>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus
>>and lobster I can work it it,
>>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
>
> Mind translating wobbegong, just one more time, into a language
> closer to English as she is spoke?

Isn't there a Lake Wobbegong in Meenasohta?

[R H Draney]

swarvegorilla filted:
>
>
>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>
>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my problem.
>>>octopus love lobbys
>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>
>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>
>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>
>
>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>I can work it it,
>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.

Figured it was something like that...it's just that the specific words you used,
and so many of them in such a short space ("lobbys hang around with wobbys, and
wobbys love to eat ockys") sounded like a cross between Dr Seuss and HP
Lovecraft....r


--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[swarvegorilla]

"Charles Bishop" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "swarvegorilla" > wrote:
>
>>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
>>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>>
>>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my
>>>>problem.
>>>>octopus love lobbys
>>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>>
>>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>>
>>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>>
>>
>>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>>I can work it it,
>>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
>
> Mind translating wobbegong, just one more time, into a language closer to
> English as she is spoke?
>
> charles, mate, bishop

They are like big pretend looking sharks...
Only they are still sharks.
Have lots of little needle teeth.
That hurt.
If you are looking for lobbys under ledges it pays to drag the wobby (shark)
outta the way by the tail.
Only they can turn and bite their tail.
Now the horror storys are snorklers swimming over the things.... they hide
well ya see.... and the fookin shark right.... comes up and bites the poor
persons groin.
Now I ain't seen that, legend maybe.
But I have been stalked by big ones when I have had speared fishys, they
bully for a feed.
That said they are very easy to catch at night on handlines and a good feed
once ya do. Trick is using a nice big fishy as bait.
lots of trawlers set lines for them to get them scavenging and then sell
them to us fried with chips.
:-)
short answer 'ragged brown mottled looking shark things, 2 types and dwarf
variants but yea to about 2metres or so'
Oh yea.... and they LOVE eating octopus.

[swarvegorilla]

"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
> swarvegorilla filted:
>>
>>
>>"R H Draney" > wrote in message
...
>>> swarvegorilla filted:
>>>>
>>>>Actually the fact the octopus didn't slaughter the crustys is my
>>>>problem.
>>>>octopus love lobbys
>>>>which is why lobbys around here hang in caves with wobbys.
>>>>And wobbys love to eat ockys so it all works for every one.
>>>
>>> Do you talk like this in real life or what?...
>>>
>>> R H "and is there any treatment for it?" Draney
>>
>>
>>It's called 'Ocka' mate!
>>Only the chosen few can speak it, gods own t'would seem.
>>Now if you would prefer the laborious terms wobbegong, octopus and lobster
>>I can work it it,
>>but your just making it hard on yourself digger.
>
> Figured it was something like that...it's just that the specific words you
> used,
> and so many of them in such a short space ("lobbys hang around with
> wobbys, and
> wobbys love to eat ockys") sounded like a cross between Dr Seuss and HP
> Lovecraft....r


Hard not to put an 'E' on the end of stuff......
It's like smoking or something, makes ya look cool it does.
:)
Seuss and Lovecraft are gods tho, I am but a mere man.... so far.


>
>
> --
> "You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
> "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[Lee Ayrton]

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Pushmi-Pullyu wrote:

> On Apr 15, 10:20 am, "Nehmo" > wrote:
>> At this point, there's no evidence of fish missing or wet floors. Yes,
>> people make things up. And people often elaborate on a true fact. I
>> believe octopuses open lids of aquariums. That's plausible. But
>> steeling from another aquarium and returning to their own, I'm afraid
>> it's an urban myth.
>>
>> I would like to believe otherwise. As soon as you find some evidence,
>> let me know please.
>
>
> Cynicism is the last refuge of the cynical.

Cynicism is the opiate of the disillusioned.




Lee "Your turn" Ayrton





--
"We began to realize, as we plowed on with the destruction of New Jersey,
that the extent of our American lunatic fringe had been underestimated."
Orson Wells on the reaction to the _War Of The Worlds_ broadcast.

[~Windsong~[_2_]]

chop its damned legs / arms off that will fix its propensity to crawl
out!



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

"Nehmo" > writes:

> There are mentions on the web of an octopus climbing out of a tank,
> traveling across a dry surface, going into another tank, grabbing a
> fish for a meal, and then returning to their home tank. Some web-
> comments say there is a video that was on TV. But I haven't found
> anything like it on the web. Is this behavior possible? Is this story
> true?

It seems to be accepted in the literature:

Researchers and aquarists have reported octopuses escaping
captivity despite elaborate precautions (Anderson, 1997; Wood,
1994). One of the first papers was by Lee (1875), who reported
that Brighton aquarists were puzzled by disappearing lumpfish,
until one morning when the octopus was discovered in the lumpfish
tank. More recently, Boyle (1991) wrote, "Octopuses are
particularly prone to escape from aquarium tanks. Loose lids are
of little value because the octopuses will easily lift them and
push their way out of the tank" (p. 32).

James B. Wood and Roland C. Anderson, "Interspecific
Evaluation of Octopus Escape Behavior", _Journal of
Applied Animal Welfare Science_, 7(2),95-106, 2004.

The cited references are

Anderson, R.C. (1997). _Octopus dofleini_ and _O. rubescens_:
Animal husbandry. In M.A. Lang & F.G. Hochberg (Eds.),
_Proc. workshop on fishery and market potential of octopus in
California_ (pp. 141-149). Washington, DC: Smithsonian
Institution.

Boyle, P.R. (1983). _The UFAW handbook on the care and management
of cephalopods in the laboratory_. Potters Bar, England: UAFW.

Lee, H. (1875). _The octopus_. London: Chapman Hill.

Wood, J.B. (1994). Don't fear the raptor: An octopus in the home
aquarium. _Freshwater and Marine Aquarium Magazine_, 17, 4.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"The Dynamics of Interbeing and
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Monological Imperatives in 'Dick
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and Jane' : A Study in Psychic
|Transrelational Modes."
| Calvin
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Jared]

On Apr 17, 1:47 pm, "swarvegorilla" >
wrote:
>
> Hard not to put an 'E' on the end of stuff......

I was taught the way to tell antipodeans apart was that Kiwi's put 'e'
on the end of everything and 'Strines use 'o'.

i.e. vegies vs vegos, rellies vs rellos.

Have I been lied to?

Jared "hut for sux" Head

[Ken]

On 18 Apr 2007 17:35:41 -0700, Jared > wrote:

>On Apr 17, 1:47 pm, "swarvegorilla" >
>wrote:
>>
>> Hard not to put an 'E' on the end of stuff......
>
>I was taught the way to tell antipodeans apart was that Kiwi's put 'e'
>on the end of everything and 'Strines use 'o'.
>
>i.e. vegies vs vegos, rellies vs rellos.
>
>Have I been lied to?
>
>Jared "hut for sux" Head
Sounds like an Aussie/Kiwi indulging in a favourite pastime of
"humouring" a Yank (taking the p... out of?).

If you want to tell them apart, hold up six fingers & ask how many
fingers - on the rare occasions you get a straight answer, if you hear
six its an Aussie, sucks its a Kiwi.

[R H Draney]

Ken filted:
>
>If you want to tell them apart, hold up six fingers & ask how many
>fingers - on the rare occasions you get a straight answer, if you hear
>six its an Aussie, sucks its a Kiwi.

Almost...the Aussie says sex....

R H "I seem to be one finger short" Draney


--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[Ken]

On 18 Apr 2007 20:15:29 -0700, R H Draney >
wrote:

>Ken filted:
>>
>>If you want to tell them apart, hold up six fingers & ask how many
>>fingers - on the rare occasions you get a straight answer, if you hear
>>six its an Aussie, sucks its a Kiwi.
>
>Almost...the Aussie says sex....
>
>R H "I seem to be one finger short" Draney
I said you had to get a straight answer!!!

[R H Draney]

Ken filted:
>
>On 18 Apr 2007 20:15:29 -0700, R H Draney >
>wrote:
>
>>Ken filted:
>>>
>>>If you want to tell them apart, hold up six fingers & ask how many
>>>fingers - on the rare occasions you get a straight answer, if you hear
>>>six its an Aussie, sucks its a Kiwi.
>>
>>Almost...the Aussie says sex....
>>
>>R H "I seem to be one finger short" Draney
>I said you had to get a straight answer!!!

And the Texan answers "lessee -- about four, I think -- I didn't know I was
gonna have to do math"....r


--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"

[David DeLaney]

Lee Ayrton > wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Apr 2007, Pushmi-Pullyu wrote:
>>> I would like to believe otherwise. As soon as you find some evidence,
>>> let me know please.
>>
>> Cynicism is the last refuge of the cynical.
>
>Cynicism is the opiate of the disillusioned.

Cynicism plus chocolate is a lot easier to deal with than cynicism by its own
self.

>Lee "Your turn" Ayrton

Dave "I get a turn? Golly" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Hatunen]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:26:30 -0400, Haywood Jablowme
> wrote:

>
>I understand what you mean by "friend of a friend". But, this was my
>next door neighbor. I accompanied him to Sea World a number of times
>and actually observed the tanks he was talking about. By the time I
>got there, the three tanks that had Octopus in them had fully sealed
>tops on them. Having talked to him and observed the site, there is no
>doubt this happened.
>
>These are very intelligent animals. I have seen an Octopus open a
>glass jar with a screw on lid in order to get a shrimp that was in it.
>It was amazing. The jar was filled with salt water and the shrimp
>added. The lid was screwed on finger tight and the jar was then
>dropped in the tank with the Octopus. The Octopus tried at first to go
>through the glass to get the shrimp. Then, the animal enveloped the
>entire jar with it's body and tentacles. After several minutes it
>figured out how to open the jar. The entire process took about 20
>minutes. The Aquarists at Sea World did all kinds of experiments to
>test the intelligence of these animals.
>
>So, yes they can move out of their tanks, explore their environment and
>then return to their tanks. This is not conjecture. It is a fact.
>
>HJ
>
>In article >, Mike Williams
> wrote:
>

Do you realize you are responding to a post made last April?


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

[Peter Boulding]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 14:49:10 -0700, Hatunen > wrote in
>:

>Do you realize you are responding to a post made last April?

You've got to admit his news server's got good retention.

--
Regards
Peter Boulding
(to e-mail, remove "UNSPAM")
Fractal music & images: http://www.pboulding.co.uk/

[Dr H]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Hatunen flamboyantly asserted:

}On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:26:30 -0400, Haywood Jablowme
> wrote:
}
}>
}>I understand what you mean by "friend of a friend". But, this was my
}>next door neighbor. I accompanied him to Sea World a number of times
}>and actually observed the tanks he was talking about. By the time I
}>got there, the three tanks that had Octopus in them had fully sealed
}>tops on them. Having talked to him and observed the site, there is no
}>doubt this happened.
}>
}>These are very intelligent animals. I have seen an Octopus open a
}>glass jar with a screw on lid in order to get a shrimp that was in it.
}>It was amazing. The jar was filled with salt water and the shrimp
}>added. The lid was screwed on finger tight and the jar was then
}>dropped in the tank with the Octopus. The Octopus tried at first to go
}>through the glass to get the shrimp. Then, the animal enveloped the
}>entire jar with it's body and tentacles. After several minutes it
}>figured out how to open the jar. The entire process took about 20
}>minutes. The Aquarists at Sea World did all kinds of experiments to
}>test the intelligence of these animals.
}>
}>So, yes they can move out of their tanks, explore their environment and
}>then return to their tanks. This is not conjecture. It is a fact.
}>
}>HJ
}>
}>In article >, Mike Williams
> wrote:
}>
}
}Do you realize you are responding to a post made last April?

Is that a problem?

Dr H

[jthread]

"Dr H" > wrote in message
news:Pine.WNT.4.60.0710221617090.-3932273@themaskedbaron...
>
> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007, Hatunen flamboyantly asserted:
>
> }On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:26:30 -0400, Haywood Jablowme
> > wrote:
> }
> }>
> }>I understand what you mean by "friend of a friend". But, this was my
> }>next door neighbor. I accompanied him to Sea World a number of times
> }>and actually observed the tanks he was talking about. By the time I
> }>got there, the three tanks that had Octopus in them had fully sealed
> }>tops on them. Having talked to him and observed the site, there is no
> }>doubt this happened.
> }>
> }>These are very intelligent animals. I have seen an Octopus open a
> }>glass jar with a screw on lid in order to get a shrimp that was in it.
> }>It was amazing. The jar was filled with salt water and the shrimp
> }>added. The lid was screwed on finger tight and the jar was then
> }>dropped in the tank with the Octopus. The Octopus tried at first to go
> }>through the glass to get the shrimp. Then, the animal enveloped the
> }>entire jar with it's body and tentacles. After several minutes it
> }>figured out how to open the jar. The entire process took about 20
> }>minutes. The Aquarists at Sea World did all kinds of experiments to
> }>test the intelligence of these animals.
> }>
> }>So, yes they can move out of their tanks, explore their environment and
> }>then return to their tanks. This is not conjecture. It is a fact.
> }>
> }>HJ
> }>
> }>In article >, Mike Williams
> > wrote:
> }>
> }
> }Do you realize you are responding to a post made last April?
>
> Is that a problem?
>
> Dr H
>
yeah. if you want the op to read it. another problem is the way it's
crossposted

[Mike D]

I heard of an octopus once that was able to disassemble and reassemble an
M16A1 rifle whilst blindfolded. Mike.
"Haywood Jablowme" > wrote in message
...
>
> I understand what you mean by "friend of a friend". But, this was my
> next door neighbor. I accompanied him to Sea World a number of times
> and actually observed the tanks he was talking about. By the time I
> got there, the three tanks that had Octopus in them had fully sealed
> tops on them. Having talked to him and observed the site, there is no
> doubt this happened.
>
> These are very intelligent animals. I have seen an Octopus open a
> glass jar with a screw on lid in order to get a shrimp that was in it.
> It was amazing. The jar was filled with salt water and the shrimp
> added. The lid was screwed on finger tight and the jar was then
> dropped in the tank with the Octopus. The Octopus tried at first to go
> through the glass to get the shrimp. Then, the animal enveloped the
> entire jar with it's body and tentacles. After several minutes it
> figured out how to open the jar. The entire process took about 20
> minutes. The Aquarists at Sea World did all kinds of experiments to
> test the intelligence of these animals.
>
> So, yes they can move out of their tanks, explore their environment and
> then return to their tanks. This is not conjecture. It is a fact.
>
> HJ
>
> In article >, Mike Williams
> > wrote:
>
>> Wasn't it Haywood Jablowme who wrote:
>> >
>> >A number of years ago, my next door neighbor worked as an Aquarist at
>> >Sea World (in Orlando, Florida). He told me that this actually
>> >happened there. An octopus was observed leaving it's tank, "walking"
>> >about 5 feet, entering another tank, catching and eating a fish, and
>> >returning to it's tank. As unbelievable as it sounds, according to Sea
>> >World Orlando, this is an established fact. These are indeed very
>> >intelligent animals.
>>
>> Well yes, we started from the idea that there are lots of friend-of-a-
>> friend type stories about this.

[Bob Ward]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 06:53:03 -0400, Haywood Jablowme
> wrote:

>
>If you don't believe what is posted, why don't you just say so. It's
>your right to be wrong...

\
Apparently you are willing to exercise your "right" to publish
absolute nonsense as well.

[Paul Cassel]

Haywood Jablowme wrote:
> If you don't believe what is posted, why don't you just say so. It's
> your right to be wrong...
>

Well, it's your asinine handle which has nobody taking you seriously. I
do though. I know what you posted was true. I actually SAW the tank the
octopus crawled out of and back into once.

I mean it was the ACTUAL tank.

[Bob Ward]

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:47:56 -0600, Paul Cassel
> wrote:

>Haywood Jablowme wrote:
>> If you don't believe what is posted, why don't you just say so. It's
>> your right to be wrong...
>>
>
>Well, it's your asinine handle which has nobody taking you seriously. I
>do though. I know what you posted was true. I actually SAW the tank the
>octopus crawled out of and back into once.
>
>I mean it was the ACTUAL tank.


I saw the actual phone booth at Universal Studios where Superman
changed clothes...

[torres.kvin]

This story seems to say that would defeat the crab Octopus. I assume that this depends on how big they are. But, yes, you are right, There is no video. Of course, that was a rare video.