New Set Up.

[Stevie B]

Hi there all, I am looking at converting my existing tropical
freshwater Trigon 350 (litre) into a marine set up, although initially
without any corals - I would like to progress to a reef setup at some
point in the future. I intend to start the system using the internal
Juwel filter and an external Fluval 203 feeding an undergravel plate
(in reverse mode) covering about 40% of the base of the tank. I have a
few question which I would like answering in respect of this, these
are as follows :

1. Would a skimmer be required in a tank of this size or is that more
dependant on stocking levels ? If so, will a Aqua-Medic Miniflotor
Skimmer be man enough - quoted for use upto a 200 litre tank !!

2. Do I need a steriliser ?

3 Would a sump setup be a better option right from the word go ?

4. Are they any downfalls or issues in using this type of setup /
filtration that I should be aware of ?

Many thanks in advance to all who may respond.

Kind regards,

Steve.

[Peter Pan]

>
> 1. Would a skimmer be required in a tank of this size or is that more
> dependant on stocking levels ? If so, will a Aqua-Medic Miniflotor
> Skimmer be man enough - quoted for use upto a 200 litre tank !!

Each Skimmer is rated for the tank, make sure yours is the right Tank size
ie Some say up to 75 gal or something similar
>
> 2. Do I need a steriliser ?

No. You don't want to kill the good bacteria
>
> 3 Would a sump setup be a better option right from the word go ?
IMHO it's a matter of preference. If you want to hide your filters / heaters
then do it. If you're is like mine, with the filter hiddne behind a wall,
then I dont see why you would want it
>
> 4. Are they any downfalls or issues in using this type of setup /
> filtration that I should be aware of ?

Yes Nitrate build up, I would use a canister without Bio Media, the Live
rock with act as a bio (After your tank cycles) and will help your Nitrate
stay low

When you set up the tank, you should use a deep sand bed for the substrate
( about 4 inches), unlike a fresh water tank, when you do your partials, you
try not to disturb the sand. You can place the LR ontop of the sand, let the
tank cycle before adding any fish ( Make sure ammonia and Nitrites are zero)
This make take a few weeks. During this time, get yourself a good reef book
and read it, then get another and read that. You don't need corals right
away, it sounds like you want a Fish only with Live rock (FOWLR) Lighting is
not as important as its when you add corals. as far as fish buying if you
are using RODI make sure your local fish store is also using RODI if they
are not, go someplace else. This link is a useful guide for New Tanks
owners for compatibility
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/compatibility_chart.cfm

When you get stuck you can post ur problem here, and wait for a response,,
you're looking for the most consistant asnwers ( everyone has a differnt
opinion on how to do things in here)
Good luck

[George Patterson]

Stevie B wrote:

> 1. Would a skimmer be required in a tank of this size or is that more
> dependant on stocking levels ? If so, will a Aqua-Medic Miniflotor
> Skimmer be man enough - quoted for use upto a 200 litre tank !!

Yes, you really need a skimmer. The higher the stocking level, the more often
you will have to empty the cup. You can use a small skimmer on a large tank if
it's lightly stocked or if you're willing to empty the cup often.

> 2. Do I need a steriliser ?

No.

> 3 Would a sump setup be a better option right from the word go ?

I would think so.

> 4. Are they any downfalls or issues in using this type of setup /
> filtration that I should be aware of ?

If you're going to go reef eventually, I would pass on the undergravel filter.
Use of filters such as cannister or wet/dry units allow nitrates to build up in
the tank. The standard method for removing these is to perform frequent water
changes, but you can also use a product like "nitrate sponge" in your cannister
filter or in a separate "reactor." If you do go with an undergravel filter,
drive it with its own powerhead(s). As the media clogs in the Fluval, the water
flow will decrease. You want to keep the flow as constant as possible in a UG
filter.

If you do change over to a reef tank at a later date, the Fluval and undergravel
filters should be removed. A sump setup can become a refugium.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

Yes skip the UG filter. Even if you don't do reef,
still skip the UG filter.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


George Patterson wrote on 4/19/2007 11:58 AM:
> Stevie B wrote:
>
>> 1. Would a skimmer be required in a tank of this size or is that more
>> dependant on stocking levels ? If so, will a Aqua-Medic Miniflotor
>> Skimmer be man enough - quoted for use upto a 200 litre tank !!
>
> Yes, you really need a skimmer. The higher the stocking level, the more
> often you will have to empty the cup. You can use a small skimmer on a
> large tank if it's lightly stocked or if you're willing to empty the cup
> often.
>
>> 2. Do I need a steriliser ?
>
> No.
>
>> 3 Would a sump setup be a better option right from the word go ?
>
> I would think so.
>
>> 4. Are they any downfalls or issues in using this type of setup /
>> filtration that I should be aware of ?
>
> If you're going to go reef eventually, I would pass on the undergravel
> filter. Use of filters such as cannister or wet/dry units allow nitrates
> to build up in the tank. The standard method for removing these is to
> perform frequent water changes, but you can also use a product like
> "nitrate sponge" in your cannister filter or in a separate "reactor." If
> you do go with an undergravel filter, drive it with its own
> powerhead(s). As the media clogs in the Fluval, the water flow will
> decrease. You want to keep the flow as constant as possible in a UG filter.
>
> If you do change over to a reef tank at a later date, the Fluval and
> undergravel filters should be removed. A sump setup can become a refugium.
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

Only place the live rock on top of the sand if you
only have a few pieces of live rock. If you are
going to stack the rock, then put base rock on the
glass, and put your sand around that, and then stack
your live rock on top of the base rock. Don't build
your house on the shifting sand.

Also that sand is best if it is a calcium based sand.

Also get some good books and do some reading. Books
are always a good investment in this hobby.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Peter Pan wrote on 4/19/2007 11:11 AM:

> When you set up the tank, you should use a deep sand bed for the substrate
> ( about 4 inches), unlike a fresh water tank, when you do your partials, you
> try not to disturb the sand. You can place the LR ontop of the sand, let the
> tank cycle before adding any fish ( Make sure ammonia and Nitrites are zero)
> This make take a few weeks. During this time, get yourself a good reef book
> and read it, then get another and read that. You don't need corals right
> away, it sounds like you want a Fish only with Live rock (FOWLR) Lighting is
> not as important as its when you add corals. as far as fish buying if you
> are using RODI make sure your local fish store is also using RODI if they
> are not, go someplace else. This link is a useful guide for New Tanks
> owners for compatibility
> http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/compatibility_chart.cfm

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Only place the live rock on top of the sand if you only have a few
> pieces of live rock. If you are going to stack the rock, then put base
> rock on the glass, and put your sand around that, and then stack your
> live rock on top of the base rock. Don't build your house on the
> shifting sand.

I've heard of people putting egg crate on the bottom/back and then
stacking rock on that. The advantage is that you can glue the rock to
the egg crate, but still be able to remove it at a later point.

I've always thought egg crate was the bumpy foam pads that are used for
packaging (or for sleeping on while camping) that resembles both the
size and shape of egg crates. But apparently, it's also the name for
the translucent plastic sheets with small bumps used for fluorescent or
commercial light fixtures that can be found at lowe's and home depot in
the lighting section.

Just an idea if you building a large landscape and need it to be stable.

btw, the reason sand shifts is because of all the shrimps, fish, etc
that burrow in the sand under the rock to build caves. My blue damsels
have been very busy lately. And, my clownfish was also building a nest.

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:

> I've always thought egg crate was the bumpy foam pads that are used for
> packaging (or for sleeping on while camping) that resembles both the
> size and shape of egg crates. But apparently, it's also the name for
> the translucent plastic sheets with small bumps used for fluorescent or
> commercial light fixtures that can be found at lowe's and home depot in
> the lighting section.

Nope. It's the name of the grids with square holes used for light fixtures.

http://www.plaskolite.com/lighting-panels.htm

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[KurtG]

George Patterson wrote:
> Nope. It's the name of the grids with square holes used for light fixtures.

Thanks! Must be small birds to put there eggs in there.

[Wayne Sallee]

Yep, that's right.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


George Patterson wrote on 4/22/2007 11:23 AM:
> KurtG wrote:
>
>> I've always thought egg crate was the bumpy foam pads that are used for
>> packaging (or for sleeping on while camping) that resembles both the
>> size and shape of egg crates. But apparently, it's also the name for
>> the translucent plastic sheets with small bumps used for fluorescent or
>> commercial light fixtures that can be found at lowe's and home depot in
>> the lighting section.
>
> Nope. It's the name of the grids with square holes used for light fixtures.
>
> http://www.plaskolite.com/lighting-panels.htm
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

LOL and the light would help keep the eggs warm :-)

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


KurtG wrote on 4/23/2007 6:27 AM:
> George Patterson wrote:
>> Nope. It's the name of the grids with square holes used for light fixtures.
>
> Thanks! Must be small birds to put there eggs in there.

[Wayne Sallee]

Other than misidentifying the egg crate :-) , yes
you can put the egg crate down, and put the live
rock on top of that, though I'm not a big fan of
that method. But even still, if you do that you
still will have sand above the bottom of the base
rock if you want any kind of depth of sand in the
tank, unless you want to stack egg crate on top of
egg crate.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


KurtG wrote on 4/22/2007 8:14 AM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> Only place the live rock on top of the sand if you only have a few
>> pieces of live rock. If you are going to stack the rock, then put base
>> rock on the glass, and put your sand around that, and then stack your
>> live rock on top of the base rock. Don't build your house on the
>> shifting sand.
>
> I've heard of people putting egg crate on the bottom/back and then
> stacking rock on that. The advantage is that you can glue the rock to
> the egg crate, but still be able to remove it at a later point.
>
> I've always thought egg crate was the bumpy foam pads that are used for
> packaging (or for sleeping on while camping) that resembles both the
> size and shape of egg crates. But apparently, it's also the name for
> the translucent plastic sheets with small bumps used for fluorescent or
> commercial light fixtures that can be found at lowe's and home depot in
> the lighting section.
>
> Just an idea if you building a large landscape and need it to be stable.
>
> btw, the reason sand shifts is because of all the shrimps, fish, etc
> that burrow in the sand under the rock to build caves. My blue damsels
> have been very busy lately. And, my clownfish was also building a nest.