Mystery Ailment after long transport

[Lady Samsara]

When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.

As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

[NetMax]

"Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
om...
> When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
>
> As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

The only 'mystery' ailment associated with transport which I'm aware of
is the chills. Typically occurs with missed transport connections and
unheated transport during the winter. It manifests itself after a few
days, but I don't think this is applicable to your situation. The other
transport risks are ammonia build-up (fin & gill damage & septicaemia
more likely) and water tends to get acidic from the CO2 and ammonia, so
there might also be a pH shock at destination. Given the amount of
research you did before moving, I suspect your Betta's condition would be
the same even if you hadn't moved.

In addition to the antibiotics being used, an airstone in a corner
opposite to where the fish is will increase O2 levels slightly, improving
his comfort, as will adding a bit of floating plant material. Sorry I
couldn't be more help.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Rick]

"Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
om...
> When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
>
> As always, any help is greatly appreciated.


how did you move this fish?. Sounds like gill damage likely caused by
ammonia burn. Did you stop feeding the fish prior to transport?. Moving a
fish that distance in a small amount of water is going to cause an ammonia
build up IMO.

Rick

[Lady Samsara]

(Lady Samsara) wrote in message >...
> When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
>
> As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

Chance didn't make it. Life sucks sometimes.

[Lady Samsara]

"Rick" > wrote in message >...
> "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> om...
> > When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> > the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> > and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> > noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> > When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> > very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> > the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> > was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> > looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> > apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> > breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> > his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> > gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> > ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> > seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> > water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> > I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
> >
> > As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>
> how did you move this fish?. Sounds like gill damage likely caused by
> ammonia burn. Did you stop feeding the fish prior to transport?. Moving a
> fish that distance in a small amount of water is going to cause an ammonia
> build up IMO.
>
> Rick

Hello Rick and thank you for your response. The fish were moved in a
large (about 1 gallon) Kritter Keeper that was inside of a strofoam
cooler and kept in a climate controlled area of the moving truck. I
filled it with part clean tank water and part fresh water right before
we walked out the door. I did not feed for 24 hours before and during
the trip, and did a water change the next morning. That night we
arrived late and I put them in fresh water the following afternoon, so
I don't think ammonia would have built up in any large amounts, though
I could be wrong. Here I thought I was doing everything right. Would
it have taken 1 1/2 weeks for the damage to become apparent, as he was
normal, active and eating ever since we arrived. He was fine Sat.
morning and I noticed he didn't want to eat Sat. night, it happened
that fast.

As with anyone, I'd just like to know what happened so I can avoid it
in the future. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Lady Samsara]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> om...
> > When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> > the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> > and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> > noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> > When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> > very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> > the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> > was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> > looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> > apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> > breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> > his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> > gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> > ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> > seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> > water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> > I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
> >
> > As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> The only 'mystery' ailment associated with transport which I'm aware of
> is the chills. Typically occurs with missed transport connections and
> unheated transport during the winter. It manifests itself after a few
> days, but I don't think this is applicable to your situation. The other
> transport risks are ammonia build-up (fin & gill damage & septicaemia
> more likely) and water tends to get acidic from the CO2 and ammonia, so
> there might also be a pH shock at destination. Given the amount of
> research you did before moving, I suspect your Betta's condition would be
> the same even if you hadn't moved.
>
> In addition to the antibiotics being used, an airstone in a corner
> opposite to where the fish is will increase O2 levels slightly, improving
> his comfort, as will adding a bit of floating plant material. Sorry I
> couldn't be more help.

Hello NetMax...thank you so much. Fish are such fragile creatures, I
knew I was taking a chance when I undertook the move with them.

Giving you a Big cyber-hug for all of your help!! Your compassion
towards creatures may very well exceed your knowledge of them!

[Keith]

May be a dumb question but is the pH of the water at your new place the same
as that where you used to live? A change in pH could cause the symptoms you
describe.

Keith

"Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
om...
> When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
>
> As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Mystery Ailment after long transport
>From: (Lady Samsara)
>Date: 6/17/2004 11:03 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
(Lady Samsara) wrote in message
>...
>> When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
>> the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
>> and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
>> noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
>> When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
>> very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
>> the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
>> was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
>> looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
>> apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
>> breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
>> his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
>> gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
>> ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
>> seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
>> water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
>> I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
>>
>> As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Chance didn't make it. Life sucks sometimes.
>
>

Sorry to hear. = (
It's very possible that Chance died from old age. Most are already grown when
you buy them.
How long did you have Chance?

[Lady Samsara]

"Keith" > wrote in message >...
> May be a dumb question but is the pH of the water at your new place the same
> as that where you used to live? A change in pH could cause the symptoms you
> describe.
>
> Keith
>
> "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> om...
> > When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> > the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> > and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> > noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> > When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> > very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> > the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> > was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> > looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> > apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> > breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> > his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> > gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> > ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> > seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> > water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> > I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
> >
> > As always, any help is greatly appreciated.

Hello Keith...Not a dumb question at all, because today I tested
water. The PH read 7.6, which is the same as my previous water. I
did bring lots of old water and acclimated them slowly, using very
little new water. When I filled the tank I'd say I used 8 gallons old
and maybe 2 gallons new, if that. What is interesting, though, is I
just tested the PH straight from the tap and it reads 6.8. I wonder
if, as you say, even the small amount I used was enough to put him
into PH shock. This is something I will be doing research on
tomorrow. I do have another Betta in a 2 gallon and he seems
fine...Do you think he can adjust over the next few weeks or should I
switch him back to spring water, which does have a PH of 7.6? (I was
using it in the past).

Thank you...your insight is appreciated.

[Keith]

The pH ranges you are experiencing are probably not big enough to do any
great harm - by that I mean any change might cause some stress but a bigger
change would be needed to cause anything other than the usual stress
symptoms (fin rot and the like).

pH straight out of the tap will be different to when the water is aerated as
the dissolved CO2 will make it more acidic.

It doesn't look like pH shock is the answer!

Keith

"Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
om...
> "Keith" > wrote in message
>...
> > May be a dumb question but is the pH of the water at your new place the
same
> > as that where you used to live? A change in pH could cause the symptoms
you
> > describe.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> > > the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> > > and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> > > noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> > > When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> > > very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> > > the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> > > was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> > > looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> > > apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> > > breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> > > his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> > > gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> > > ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> > > seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> > > water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> > > I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
> > >
> > > As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> Hello Keith...Not a dumb question at all, because today I tested
> water. The PH read 7.6, which is the same as my previous water. I
> did bring lots of old water and acclimated them slowly, using very
> little new water. When I filled the tank I'd say I used 8 gallons old
> and maybe 2 gallons new, if that. What is interesting, though, is I
> just tested the PH straight from the tap and it reads 6.8. I wonder
> if, as you say, even the small amount I used was enough to put him
> into PH shock. This is something I will be doing research on
> tomorrow. I do have another Betta in a 2 gallon and he seems
> fine...Do you think he can adjust over the next few weeks or should I
> switch him back to spring water, which does have a PH of 7.6? (I was
> using it in the past).
>
> Thank you...your insight is appreciated.

[Lady Samsara]

(TYNK 7) wrote in message >...
> >Subject: Re: Mystery Ailment after long transport
> >From: (Lady Samsara)
> >Date: 6/17/2004 11:03 AM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> (Lady Samsara) wrote in message
> >...
> >> When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> >> the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> >> and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> >> noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> >> When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> >> very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> >> the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> >> was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> >> looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> >> apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> >> breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> >> his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> >> gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> >> ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> >> seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> >> water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> >> I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
> >>
> >> As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> >Chance didn't make it. Life sucks sometimes.
> >
> >
>
> Sorry to hear. = (
> It's very possible that Chance died from old age. Most are already grown when
> you buy them.
> How long did you have Chance?

Hi TYNK...nice to see you. Chance was a little double tail rescue I
had for 3 months. He was in horrific condition when I got him and had
really bounced back well. It's hard to tell how old he was because he
was on the smaller side. I keep thinking that at least he didn't
spend the last 3 months ignored in the LFS.

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

[Lady Samsara]

"Keith" > wrote in message >...
> The pH ranges you are experiencing are probably not big enough to do any
> great harm - by that I mean any change might cause some stress but a bigger
> change would be needed to cause anything other than the usual stress
> symptoms (fin rot and the like).
>
> pH straight out of the tap will be different to when the water is aerated as
> the dissolved CO2 will make it more acidic.
>
> It doesn't look like pH shock is the answer!
>
> Keith
>
> "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Keith" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > May be a dumb question but is the pH of the water at your new place the
> same
> > > as that where you used to live? A change in pH could cause the symptoms
> you
> > > describe.
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > > "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> > > om...
> > > > When it rains it pours. I need to set up a cot in the corner here,
> > > > the way things have been going :(. Tomorrow is 2 weeks that I moved
> > > > and drove 1,300 miles with my 2 male Betta fish. This past Saturday I
> > > > noticed one was not coming up to eat but didn't think much of it.
> > > > When I investigated further on Sunday I saw he looked weak, breathing
> > > > very labored, hiding and not eating. It came out of the blue...since
> > > > the move he has been very active and healthy, and Saturday morning he
> > > > was normal and eating fine. On Monday I put him in quarantine, still
> > > > looking weak and sagging to one side. Yesterday I noticed his
> > > > apercullem (sp? gill cover) looked enlarged. He is not having trouble
> > > > breathing anymore but just stays somewhat vertical in one spot, with
> > > > his nose out of the water. The only ailment which seemed possible was
> > > > gill disease, so he has been on Maracyn 2, 2nd dose today. Any other
> > > > ideas of what could be wrong? Besides the swollen gill area nothing
> > > > seems amiss...he looks weak, not eating, just staying still in the
> > > > water which is so unlike him. Of course, I am blaming myself, because
> > > > I took him along when I could not find a good home for him.
> > > >
> > > > As always, any help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Hello Keith...Not a dumb question at all, because today I tested
> > water. The PH read 7.6, which is the same as my previous water. I
> > did bring lots of old water and acclimated them slowly, using very
> > little new water. When I filled the tank I'd say I used 8 gallons old
> > and maybe 2 gallons new, if that. What is interesting, though, is I
> > just tested the PH straight from the tap and it reads 6.8. I wonder
> > if, as you say, even the small amount I used was enough to put him
> > into PH shock. This is something I will be doing research on
> > tomorrow. I do have another Betta in a 2 gallon and he seems
> > fine...Do you think he can adjust over the next few weeks or should I
> > switch him back to spring water, which does have a PH of 7.6? (I was
> > using it in the past).
> >
> > Thank you...your insight is appreciated.

Hi Keith...that does make me feel at least a little better. The only
thing different (aside from the water)I did with him when we got here
was move him into a gently filtered 10 gallon with 3 snails, with whom
he got along. He had always been in a 2 1/2 gallon alone but due to
space constraints here I thought I'd try him in the other tank.
Looking back, even though he was eating and active he never really did
"fly" around the 10 gallon like he did his smaller tank. Maybe the
move and then change of tank was just too much for him. What do they
say, hindsight is 20/20? What's happened cannot be changed and I feel
incredibly guilty and awful about it.

My thanks again for your help.