How loud should a Fluval 404 be?

[Harry Muscle]

I finally got my Fluval 404 up and running. It's my first canister filter,
and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be as loud as it is. It stands beside
the tank stand (ie: not behind doors) and I can hear it softly from about 15
feet away. I can hear it very well if I get within 5 feet. This noise is
especially noticeable when nothing else is on in the house. I'm just
thinking that during those nice evenings when you just want to sit and watch
your fish, all I'm gonna hear is that stupid filter. Are they supposed to
be this loud, or is mine louder than usual?

Thanks,
Harry

[NetMax]

"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> I finally got my Fluval 404 up and running. It's my first canister
filter,
> and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be as loud as it is. It stands
beside
> the tank stand (ie: not behind doors) and I can hear it softly from
about 15
> feet away. I can hear it very well if I get within 5 feet. This noise
is
> especially noticeable when nothing else is on in the house. I'm just
> thinking that during those nice evenings when you just want to sit and
watch
> your fish, all I'm gonna hear is that stupid filter. Are they supposed
to
> be this loud, or is mine louder than usual?
>
> Thanks,
> Harry

It sounds about right to make out it's hum from about 10 feet away (no
other noise sources, no cabinet), but without actual dBa figures, there
isn't a very good way to discuss comparisons. Everyone's ambient noise
level will be different, as will their personal threshold. The 'drone'
sound from all filters (powerfilter, canister etc) tends to fall into the
'white noise' area, so it's most noticeable when new. Also a new filter
is much louder than after it has settled in. This is more noticeable
with powerfilters than with canisters, but I've noticed the same
phenomena occurs. Another interesting thing is the frequency the
different filter's hum at. Eheim's hum at frequency X, Fluval's at freq.
Y etc etc. Add a 2nd Fluval or a 2nd Eheim and it blends right in with
the first one. Have a Fluval and an Eheim running side by side and you
can easily distinguish their different frequencies, and they both seem
louder because of it.

I don't know if anything there helps you. There are 2 certainties. It
will become quieter as it breaks in. You will become less aware and have
to 'listen' for it more to notice it. A certain amount of the noise
comes through vibration through the floor, so putting a pad underneath
will make it quieter. This improvement is more noticeable on hard shell
canisters like Eheim (and Fluval already sits on soft rubber feet) so the
improvement might be negligible. I think the Fluval's noise is mostly
generated from the motor housing higher up the filter at a higher
frequency. This is more easily attenuated by putting it inside a cabinet
(I did a bit of work in industrial sound suppression systems so I might
be getting into too much of a detail level here). The last item is that
the 404 is moving a lot of water, so dial it down to see if that makes
any difference, but your greatest difference I think will be age, your
own internal 'white-noise' filtering and if you should put it into a
cabinet. If you output breaks the water surface, I find this drowns out
all filter sounds. I would let it run a few weeks and then assess
whether you want it inside a cabinet.

I usually have some low-level music in my livingroom, so the apparent
filter noise is zero. In between songs and if I'm trying to concentrate
on something, the double hum of my Fluval & Eheim will sometimes make
itself noticeable, and my usual reaction is look around and wonder where
that noise is coming from ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Trevor]

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:26:30 -0400, Harry Muscle wrote:

want to sit and watch your fish, all I'm gonna hear is that stupid filter.
> Are they supposed to be this loud, or is mine louder than usual?

I appreciate the sound my filters make. As Netmax says it is white noise.
I think I would go out of my mind withe out my filters, air pumps and
bubbling water, not too mention computer fans as I have permanent tinitus
and would rather here the drone of filters etc than the constant shrieking
in my ears.

Trev

[bannor]

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:26:30 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
> wrote:
>I finally got my Fluval 404 up and running. It's my first canister filter,
>and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be as loud as it is. It stands beside
>the tank stand (ie: not behind doors) and I can hear it softly from about 15
>feet away. I can hear it very well if I get within 5 feet. This noise is
>especially noticeable when nothing else is on in the house. I'm just
>thinking that during those nice evenings when you just want to sit and watch
>your fish, all I'm gonna hear is that stupid filter. Are they supposed to
>be this loud, or is mine louder than usual?
>
>Thanks,
>Harry

Netmax made some really good tips on quieting these down some.

Mine, when new, same model, was loud at first, for about 6 weeks. I
went through the trouble of completely taking it down, cleaning it all
out, re-sealing the "O"-ring with that very VERY small tube of
silicone sealant that came with the filter... I had forgotten to do
that when I first put it together. I also had to shorten the intake
tube down, since I never cut short enough when I first installed the
filter. (Netmax told me what I did wrong with that one, thanks again
Netmax!)

After re-sealing that "O"-ring, it was a whole lot quiter... in fact,
I can no longer hear the filter at all, but do hear the rustle of the
water from the output at times... lets me know when water level has
dropped by more than a 1/4 inch, which in turn tells me it's time to
do a water change anyway. I typically do a 20% every week now that I
have my "schedule" set up and the filter "noise" or water rustle is
just beginning to be heard at that time. I could place the output
lower in the tank, and never hear it, but I like the surface agitation
for gas exchange and one of my fish totally loves the placement of the
output, swims in it for a few hours evey day.

That filter is GREAT. Low maintenance now, and very quiet. Way, way
too oversized for my tank though.. only running it on a 55... haven't
finished building my new tank yet... I broke the front glass pane when
I went to tip the tank over to put a final coat of sealant on the
bottom section of wood. So much for a sucessful DIY tank...

ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will
proof-read each individual piece at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

[Harry Muscle]

"bannor" <bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:26:30 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
> > wrote:
> >I finally got my Fluval 404 up and running. It's my first canister
filter,
> >and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be as loud as it is. It stands
beside
> >the tank stand (ie: not behind doors) and I can hear it softly from about
15
> >feet away. I can hear it very well if I get within 5 feet. This noise
is
> >especially noticeable when nothing else is on in the house. I'm just
> >thinking that during those nice evenings when you just want to sit and
watch
> >your fish, all I'm gonna hear is that stupid filter. Are they supposed
to
> >be this loud, or is mine louder than usual?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Harry
>
> Netmax made some really good tips on quieting these down some.
>
> Mine, when new, same model, was loud at first, for about 6 weeks. I
> went through the trouble of completely taking it down, cleaning it all
> out, re-sealing the "O"-ring with that very VERY small tube of
> silicone sealant that came with the filter... I had forgotten to do
> that when I first put it together. I also had to shorten the intake
> tube down, since I never cut short enough when I first installed the
> filter. (Netmax told me what I did wrong with that one, thanks again
> Netmax!)
>
SNIP
>
> ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
> meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
> it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to quipment.
> By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
> punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
> whichever is greater, for each violation."
>
> If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will
> proof-read each individual piece at a rate
> of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).

I think I'm in the same boat as you, I didn't even notice a small tube of
silicone lubricant. I'll have to go back and check. However, in case it
didn't come with my filter (the online manual makes it sound like you gotta
buy it separately), can I use something found at Home Depot, etc.? I
vaguely remember someone mentioning something like that, but I don't
remember all the details about what exactly to look for.

Thanks,
Harry

[NetMax]

"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bannor" <bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block> wrote in
message
> ...
> > On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:26:30 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
> > > wrote:
> > >I finally got my Fluval 404 up and running. It's my first canister
> filter,
> > >and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be as loud as it is. It
stands
> beside
> > >the tank stand (ie: not behind doors) and I can hear it softly from
about
> 15
> > >feet away. I can hear it very well if I get within 5 feet. This
noise
> is
> > >especially noticeable when nothing else is on in the house. I'm
just
> > >thinking that during those nice evenings when you just want to sit
and
> watch
> > >your fish, all I'm gonna hear is that stupid filter. Are they
supposed
> to
> > >be this loud, or is mine louder than usual?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Harry
> >
> > Netmax made some really good tips on quieting these down some.
> >
> > Mine, when new, same model, was loud at first, for about 6 weeks. I
> > went through the trouble of completely taking it down, cleaning it
all
> > out, re-sealing the "O"-ring with that very VERY small tube of
> > silicone sealant that came with the filter... I had forgotten to do
> > that when I first put it together. I also had to shorten the intake
> > tube down, since I never cut short enough when I first installed the
> > filter. (Netmax told me what I did wrong with that one, thanks again
> > Netmax!)
> >
> SNIP
> >
> > ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
> > "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
> > meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By
Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
> > it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to
quipment.
> > By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
> > punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
> > whichever is greater, for each violation."
> >
> > If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will
> > proof-read each individual piece at a rate
> > of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).
>
> I think I'm in the same boat as you, I didn't even notice a small tube
of
> silicone lubricant. I'll have to go back and check. However, in case
it
> didn't come with my filter (the online manual makes it sound like you
gotta
> buy it separately), can I use something found at Home Depot, etc.? I
> vaguely remember someone mentioning something like that, but I don't
> remember all the details about what exactly to look for.
>
> Thanks,
> Harry


The product from a hardware store is called plumber's grease (non-toxic
food-safe), but fwiw, I have yet to use it on any of my 400-series
Fluvals. ymmv

I have a 100-series Fluval which I've used it on. When the gasket gets
worn, the grease would buy me a bit of time to find a new gasket.

I don't think there is any harm in using the grease on new filters. Many
people recommend it.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Ali Day]

> The product from a hardware store is called plumber's grease (non-toxic
> food-safe), but fwiw, I have yet to use it on any of my 400-series
> Fluvals. ymmv
>
> I have a 100-series Fluval which I've used it on. When the gasket gets
> worn, the grease would buy me a bit of time to find a new gasket.
>
> I don't think there is any harm in using the grease on new filters. Many
> people recommend it.

Common garden vaseline is just as good, no?

Cheers

A

[Harry Muscle]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
> > The product from a hardware store is called plumber's grease (non-toxic
> > food-safe), but fwiw, I have yet to use it on any of my 400-series
> > Fluvals. ymmv
> >
> > I have a 100-series Fluval which I've used it on. When the gasket gets
> > worn, the grease would buy me a bit of time to find a new gasket.
> >
> > I don't think there is any harm in using the grease on new filters.
Many
> > people recommend it.
>
> Common garden vaseline is just as good, no?
>
> s
>
> A
>
>

Apparently vaseline breaks down rubber products, so assuming the o ring is
made of rubber, then vaseline would speed up the deterioration process.

Harry

[Ali Day]

"Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
...
> "Ali Day" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > The product from a hardware store is called plumber's grease
(non-toxic
> > > food-safe), but fwiw, I have yet to use it on any of my 400-series
> > > Fluvals. ymmv
> > >
> > > I have a 100-series Fluval which I've used it on. When the gasket
gets
> > > worn, the grease would buy me a bit of time to find a new gasket.
> > >
> > > I don't think there is any harm in using the grease on new filters.
> Many
> > > people recommend it.
> >
> > Common garden vaseline is just as good, no?
> >
> > s
> >
> > A
> >
> >
>
> Apparently vaseline breaks down rubber products, so assuming the o ring is
> made of rubber, then vaseline would speed up the deterioration process.
>
> Harry

Can you give any info on this please? I thought that with the two being
petroleum based that wouldn't happen, but I know nowt about chemistry.

Cheers

A

[Harry Muscle]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Ali Day" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > The product from a hardware store is called plumber's grease
> (non-toxic
> > > > food-safe), but fwiw, I have yet to use it on any of my 400-series
> > > > Fluvals. ymmv
> > > >
> > > > I have a 100-series Fluval which I've used it on. When the gasket
> gets
> > > > worn, the grease would buy me a bit of time to find a new gasket.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think there is any harm in using the grease on new filters.
> > Many
> > > > people recommend it.
> > >
> > > Common garden vaseline is just as good, no?
> > >
> > > s
> > >
> > > A
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Apparently vaseline breaks down rubber products, so assuming the o ring
is
> > made of rubber, then vaseline would speed up the deterioration process.
> >
> > Harry
>
> Can you give any info on this please? I thought that with the two being
> petroleum based that wouldn't happen, but I know nowt about chemistry.
>
> s
>
> A
>
>

It's what I've read a handful of times. Do a quick search on vaseline and
rubber and you should probably find more info.

Harry

[Richard Blincoe]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Harry Muscle" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Ali Day" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > The product from a hardware store is called plumber's grease
> (non-toxic
> > > > food-safe), but fwiw, I have yet to use it on any of my 400-series
> > > > Fluvals. ymmv
> > > >
> > > > I have a 100-series Fluval which I've used it on. When the gasket
> gets
> > > > worn, the grease would buy me a bit of time to find a new gasket.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think there is any harm in using the grease on new filters.
> > Many
> > > > people recommend it.
> > >
> > > Common garden vaseline is just as good, no?
> > >
> > > s
> > >
> > > A
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Apparently vaseline breaks down rubber products, so assuming the o ring
is
> > made of rubber, then vaseline would speed up the deterioration process.
> >
> > Harry
>
> Can you give any info on this please? I thought that with the two being
> petroleum based that wouldn't happen, but I know nowt about chemistry.
>
> Cheers
>
> A
>
>
natural "rubber" is not petroleum based - synthetic "rubber" is... so it
depends on the composition of the "rubber" (somewhat off topic - that is why
you don't use Vaseline with latex condoms)

[bannor]

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:10:30 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
> wrote:

>
>"bannor" <bannor -at- echoes - net - mind the spam block> wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 11:26:30 -0400, "Harry Muscle"
>> > wrote:
>> >I finally got my Fluval 404 up and running. It's my first canister
>filter,
>> >and I'm wondering if it's supposed to be as loud as it is. It stands
>beside
>> >the tank stand (ie: not behind doors) and I can hear it softly from about
>15
>> >feet away. I can hear it very well if I get within 5 feet. This noise
>is
<snip>
>> Netmax made some really good tips on quieting these down some.
>>
>> Mine, when new, same model, was loud at first, for about 6 weeks. I
>> went through the trouble of completely taking it down, cleaning it all
>> out, re-sealing the "O"-ring with that very VERY small tube of
>> silicone sealant that came with the filter... I had forgotten to do
>> that when I first put it together. I also had to shorten the intake
>> tube down, since I never cut short enough when I first installed the
>> filter. (Netmax told me what I did wrong with that one, thanks again
>> Netmax!)
<snip>

>I think I'm in the same boat as you, I didn't even notice a small tube of
>silicone lubricant. I'll have to go back and check. However, in case it
>didn't come with my filter (the online manual makes it sound like you gotta
>buy it separately), can I use something found at Home Depot, etc.? I
>vaguely remember someone mentioning something like that, but I don't
>remember all the details about what exactly to look for.
>
>Thanks,
>Harry

You know, I am not too sure that the tube of silicone sealant came
with that pump or with a HOT Deluxe... Nevertheless, once I used that,
it worked fine. I have a very small LFS around here that sells the
stuff too... but it doesn't have a brand name on it. it's just a 1/2
inch long squeeze tube that you break the end off, then squeeze out
the gunk. the stuff feals like a very sticky vasoline (if that makes
any sense, it's sticky, but does allow movement)

I have also used plumbers grease that a friend of mine had recommended
since it was "safe for human use". That stuff works on my old Fluval
303, those versions the darned "O" rings don't fit right and don't
have a "track" to keep them in place, so they tend to slide around
when you are putting the filter back together.. anyway, that plumbers
grease woirks for that filter just fine.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/silicone/Class//T1/F35+0332+0082/Itemdy00.aspx

is one place that you can get a larger bottle of the stuff... at least
I think this is the same thing that I used...
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."

If you do send me unsolicited e-mail I will
proof-read each individual piece at a rate
of $100 per hour (4 hour minimum).