Diatoms

[KurtG]

My diatoms are back. I replaced the material in my phosphate reactor
which knocked them back for a few days, but they rebounded again. My
nitrates and phosphates are both undetectable.

I'm thinking this is silicates although I'm still waiting the arrival of
my test kit. I thought my RO/DI unit would take care of this, but I
also heard that it only works on silicates for the first 100 gallons.
Is there a better DI media for this?

I'm doing 10 hours of lighting and I haven't changed this for a long
time. I'd hate to change it because my ritteri is finally looking good
after nearly 6 months of nursing it back to health.

Any ideas?

--Kurt

[Wayne Sallee]

The Kent Marine HiS is a good one.

But really, you should not have a problem with
diatoms other than the fact that it will grow on
your front glass, and your front glass has to be
cleaned off. I've even deliberately added potassium
silicate to my reef tanks, to encourage diatoms, and
never had any problems with diatoms. Things usually
balance out soon.

I'd say that there's something else wrong besides
silicates. Getting a good RO might help.

How long have you had your tank? Any recent moves or
major changes?


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


KurtG wrote on 5/14/2007 2:11 PM:
> My diatoms are back. I replaced the material in my phosphate reactor
> which knocked them back for a few days, but they rebounded again. My
> nitrates and phosphates are both undetectable.
>
> I'm thinking this is silicates although I'm still waiting the arrival of
> my test kit. I thought my RO/DI unit would take care of this, but I
> also heard that it only works on silicates for the first 100 gallons.
> Is there a better DI media for this?
>
> I'm doing 10 hours of lighting and I haven't changed this for a long
> time. I'd hate to change it because my ritteri is finally looking good
> after nearly 6 months of nursing it back to health.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> --Kurt

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:
> My diatoms are back. I replaced the material in my phosphate reactor
> which knocked them back for a few days, but they rebounded again. My
> nitrates and phosphates are both undetectable.

Well, my nitrates test at 0 and my phosphates are at the bottom of the scale,
but I've still got a tank full of hair algae. I'm thinking that things like
diatoms and algae that eat nitrates and phosphates must keep the levels low (by
eating them up). I've been using PhosBan and have some RowaPhos ordered, but I'm
almost ready to give up.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[KurtG]

George Patterson wrote:
> Well, my nitrates test at 0 and my phosphates are at the bottom of the
> scale, but I've still got a tank full of hair algae.

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=TL4111

Are you using this? It's far better then that ceramic crud. My hair
algae has been dying off and separating from the rock in big tufts. I
run two reactors and replace the oldest one once a month.

I still have plenty of hair algae left, but it's nice to have coraline
algae growing.

Are you dosing with kalkwasser? If not, I'd really recommend it. It's
also suppose to keep phosphates down and after the coraline algae starts
growing it will knock out the hair algae. That's been my experience.

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> But really, you should not have a problem with diatoms other than the
> fact that it will grow on your front glass, and your front glass has to
> be cleaned off.

Whenever diatoms kick up, my ritteri seems to become very unhappy
shortly after that. Perhaps it has more to do with something rotting in
the aquarium, but usually when I see diatoms, I hit the panic button and
start searching for the cause.

In the past, I've ignored the diatoms only to find a gelatinous filter
sponge in my pump or similar.


> I've even deliberately added potassium silicate to my
> reef tanks, to encourage diatoms, and never had any problems with
> diatoms. Things usually balance out soon.

Okay, I give up. Why do you encourage diatoms?


> I'd say that there's something else wrong besides silicates. Getting a
> good RO might help.

Yeah, the municipal water here really sucks and comes from a well. I've
been thinking about running a pre-filter RO just to take a first pass at
removing the crud. My TDS is still 0.

>
> How long have you had your tank? Any recent moves or major changes?

9 months, but only 6 months of that had decent lighting. No recent
changes other then to change the phosphate reactor media which knocked
out the diatoms for about a week. I did start doing a weekly 5 gallon
water change instead of the monthly 30.

Oh, and I did move some rocks around a week ago and again this morning.
My blenny has been tunneling underneath, so some of my rock
formations have become unstable. Maybe that's it.

--Kurt

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> The Kent Marine HiS is a good one.

Doh! Another $300 purchase.

Maybe I could use my current one for drinking water, ice machine, and
pre-filter and then use this baby to get finished aquarium water.

This hobby is eating my lunch.

--Kurt

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:

> Are you using this?

I tried one batch of that and then switched to PhosBan. I switched because the
store that sold my salt doesn't sell RowaPhos. Then it turned out that they quit
selling my salt, so I just ordered the RowaPhos from elsewhere. Should be here
in the next few days.

> Are you dosing with kalkwasser?

Nope. I'll have to check into that. Thanks for the tip.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[KurtG]

George Patterson wrote:
> KurtG wrote:
>
>> Are you using this?
>
> I tried one batch of that and then switched to PhosBan. I switched
> because the store that sold my salt doesn't sell RowaPhos.

Do you think RowaPhos works better? It seems like the same iron
hydroxide compound, but I may be mistaken.

Neither one is cheap, but it's lasts much longer then the ceramic stuff
which also isn't cheap.

--Kurt

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:

>> I tried one batch of that and then switched to PhosBan. I switched
>> because the store that sold my salt doesn't sell RowaPhos.
>
> Do you think RowaPhos works better? It seems like the same iron
> hydroxide compound, but I may be mistaken.

I don't know. The PhosBan gets the level down to about .2, and there it stays. I
would like to see about .1. We'll have to see what the RowaPhos can do this time.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

Pull the hair algae out. Hemostats are great for
this. Then the remainder hair algae, use a tooth
brush to keep it down. Use the tooth brush by
quickly moving it in a side to side motion, like
your trying to blow the hair algae off.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


George Patterson wrote on 5/14/2007 8:42 PM:
> KurtG wrote:
>> My diatoms are back. I replaced the material in my phosphate reactor
>> which knocked them back for a few days, but they rebounded again. My
>> nitrates and phosphates are both undetectable.
>
> Well, my nitrates test at 0 and my phosphates are at the bottom of the
> scale, but I've still got a tank full of hair algae. I'm thinking that
> things like diatoms and algae that eat nitrates and phosphates must keep
> the levels low (by eating them up). I've been using PhosBan and have
> some RowaPhos ordered, but I'm almost ready to give up.
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

KurtG wrote on 5/15/2007 8:07 AM:

>> I've even deliberately added potassium silicate to my
>> reef tanks, to encourage diatoms, and never had any problems with
>> diatoms. Things usually balance out soon.
>
> Okay, I give up. Why do you encourage diatoms?
>


It's a valuable part of the food chain.




>
>> I'd say that there's something else wrong besides silicates. Getting a
>> good RO might help.
>
> Yeah, the municipal water here really sucks and comes from a well. I've
> been thinking about running a pre-filter RO just to take a first pass at
> removing the crud. My TDS is still 0.
>
>> How long have you had your tank? Any recent moves or major changes?
>
> 9 months, but only 6 months of that had decent lighting. No recent
> changes other then to change the phosphate reactor media which knocked
> out the diatoms for about a week. I did start doing a weekly 5 gallon
> water change instead of the monthly 30.
>
> Oh, and I did move some rocks around a week ago and again this morning.
> My blenny has been tunneling underneath, so some of my rock
> formations have become unstable. Maybe that's it.
>
> --Kurt


Then you need to think of your tank as being 6
months old, and it takes 1 year to reach prime. The
more you move things around, the more it has to
readjust, depending on the nature of the move.

And yes, an increase in the stering up of the
substrate will cause an increase of nutrient laden
muck to fertilize the tank. Don't let the idea worry
you, but this change will cause other changes.

For every action, there is a reaction.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

[Wayne Sallee]

Depending on the unit you have, you might be able to
just change the membranes.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


KurtG wrote on 5/15/2007 8:38 AM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> The Kent Marine HiS is a good one.
>
> Doh! Another $300 purchase.
>
> Maybe I could use my current one for drinking water, ice machine, and
> pre-filter and then use this baby to get finished aquarium water.
>
> This hobby is eating my lunch.
>
> --Kurt

[George Patterson]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Pull the hair algae out. Hemostats are great for this. Then the
> remainder hair algae, use a tooth brush to keep it down. Use the tooth
> brush by quickly moving it in a side to side motion, like your trying to
> blow the hair algae off.

Every time I try doing something like that, some of my fish get stressed out and
die. If there isn't a better way, the tank will stay a jungle.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> KurtG wrote on 5/15/2007 8:07 AM:
>> Okay, I give up. Why do you encourage diatoms?
>>
> It's a valuable part of the food chain.
>


Could you elaborate? I'm curious.

I think I may have just panicked for nothing, but I do have all my
maintenance done w/ shiny clean powerheads, skimmer, and hoses. :-)

I really like muriatic acid for cleaning Ca carbonate. Much faster.

--Kurt

[Wayne Sallee]

Do they not have hiding places so that when you put
your hand in there, they have sufficient places to
feel safe?

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


George Patterson wrote on 5/16/2007 8:50 PM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> Pull the hair algae out. Hemostats are great for this. Then the
>> remainder hair algae, use a tooth brush to keep it down. Use the tooth
>> brush by quickly moving it in a side to side motion, like your trying
>> to blow the hair algae off.
>
> Every time I try doing something like that, some of my fish get stressed
> out and die. If there isn't a better way, the tank will stay a jungle.
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

It's a major part of the food chain in the ocean.

In the reef tank, snails eat it. Turbo snails will
starve to death if there is not enough diatoms to
eat. Many fish eat it, leaving kiss marks on the
glass. There are worms that eat it, and when it gets
stirred up, many kinds of filter feeders eat it.
Free phytoplankton.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


KurtG wrote on 5/17/2007 8:08 AM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>>> KurtG wrote on 5/15/2007 8:07 AM:
>>> Okay, I give up. Why do you encourage diatoms?
>>>
>> It's a valuable part of the food chain.
>>
>
>
> Could you elaborate? I'm curious.
>
> I think I may have just panicked for nothing, but I do have all my
> maintenance done w/ shiny clean powerheads, skimmer, and hoses. :-)
>
> I really like muriatic acid for cleaning Ca carbonate. Much faster.
>
> --Kurt

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Do they not have hiding places so that when you put your hand in there,
> they have sufficient places to feel safe?
>
> George Patterson wrote on 5/16/2007 8:50 PM:
>> Every time I try doing something like that, some of my fish get
>> stressed out and die. If there isn't a better way, the tank will stay
>> a jungle.

Hi George,

Can you post a pic and send a link? (Or, just email it to me.) I'm
curious because I've been battling hair algae for quite a while and I
think I'm starting to win (touch wood). I'll do the same.

About once a week, I've been using a soft bottle brush to clean my rocks
of the hair algae. I don't think my fish like it, but they don't seem
to suffer any harm. I have a floss filter in my sump return that
catches it, and I clean/replace it the next day.

It's funny when a stranger walks up to the tank because it goes from a
lively colorful show to an empty tank in a flash. There are lots of
caves and swim throughs in the rock work.

My coraline algae is really starting to grow, and it seems that once
it's established the hair algae doesn't grow back.

But, unless you hit zero phosphates, I think your hair algae will
continue to grow with abandon.

--Kurt

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Many fish eat it, leaving kiss marks
> on the glass.

My blenny does that. My kids named him "birdie" for his pecking motions.

Thanks for the answer. I'll just wait and see right now.

--Kurt

[KurtG]

George Patterson wrote:
> I don't know. The PhosBan gets the level down to about .2, and there it
> stays.

What does your test say on RO/DI water? It could be the test.

--Kurt

[George Patterson]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> Do they not have hiding places so that when you put your hand in there,
> they have sufficient places to feel safe?

They have tons of hidy-holes, but I have to hang a filter unit on the tank to
clear the trash out that gets stirred up during this. I suspect that some of
them make a break for it during this time. One time it will be a firefish; the
next time a chromis.

I've got about 120 pounds of live rock, plus a rats nest of dead elkhorn coral
for a small forest in a 125 gallon tank. When I put a scraper in to scrape the
glass, everybody disappears.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[George Patterson]

KurtG wrote:

> Can you post a pic and send a link? (Or, just email it to me.) I'm
> curious because I've been battling hair algae for quite a while and I
> think I'm starting to win (touch wood). I'll do the same.

I'll do some cleanup work this weekend and send you a shot or two. Right now,
most of the front glass is covered. We moved my mother-in-law into assisted
living two weeks ago, and we've been trying to empty out her condo. On top of
that, I started a new job last week. Anyway, I'll set up a canister filter up,
scrape the glass, and get a few shots when the water clears.

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> use a tooth brush to keep it down. Use the tooth
> brush by quickly moving it in a side to side motion, like your trying to
> blow the hair algae off.

Thanks for the tooth brush idea. I did that last night and it worked
great. I have some really nice coraline algae growing under the dying
hair algae. I still have more to do, but I'll let the tank settle again.

--Kurt

[Wayne Sallee]

Ok, sounds like you might be doing too much at a
time. Don't add the extra filter, just reach in and
pull out a little hair algae, and then remove some
more the next day, and so on.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


George Patterson wrote on 5/17/2007 8:37 PM:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>> Do they not have hiding places so that when you put your hand in
>> there, they have sufficient places to feel safe?
>
> They have tons of hidy-holes, but I have to hang a filter unit on the
> tank to clear the trash out that gets stirred up during this. I suspect
> that some of them make a break for it during this time. One time it will
> be a firefish; the next time a chromis.
>
> I've got about 120 pounds of live rock, plus a rats nest of dead elkhorn
> coral for a small forest in a 125 gallon tank. When I put a scraper in
> to scrape the glass, everybody disappears.
>
> George Patterson
> If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
> to anything.

[daneyalhardy]

I tried a batch of this, and then switch to PhosBan. I changed stores sell do not sell RowaPhos salt. Then, the original, they quit sell my salt, so I ordered the RowaPhos from other places. Should be here in the next few days.