Marineland contacted me Bio Spira

[TYNK 7]

I had contacted Marineland about their packaging on the Bio Spira, and the need
for some sort of "window" so you can see if the product has gone bad or not,
and why it's so many packs were being sold spoiled, etc.
Basically, I got the ol' I'll pass on your suggestion for the packaging routine
and the problems with the Bio Spira not being kept at proper temps were put off
on stupid pet shop employees.
I emailed the person back and explained (again!) it's much more than that. It's
also the shippers, it's mechanical malfunctions with the mini friges, it's
cutomers leaving it out on the shelves, and then it getting put back, ett, ect.
Oh well.
That really do have a wonder product here that could / will change our
wonderful hobby.
However, with the cost of it (it's not that cheap), and how many packs are
being sold that have spoiled...many hobbysists not even knowing it, it's going
to take a nose dive.
I really hope they take me seriously.
Maybe if more folks suggest the same thing, for the same reason...they may
figure out hey...maybe we should do something about the packaging.
http://marineland.com/

[Ali Day]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>

Hi Tynk, what is this wonder product?

Cheers

A

[Rick]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> Hi Tynk, what is this wonder product?
>
> Cheers
>
> A
>
basically instant cycling of your tank within reason. Set up your tank, add
the biospira and some fish and your in business no need to wait about 30
days for your tank to cycle. The last I heard about the product was that it
was selling faster than they could produce it so they took it off the market
and did not plan to reintroduce it until September. That was a month or two
ago. The problem with the product going bad was one of the reasons discussed
at that time so one would think that if it is once again commercially
available they would have improved it. Hard to blame the manufacturer of the
product for the stupidity of others though.

Rick

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
>From: "Ali Day"
>Date: 6/22/2004 11:38 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>>
>
>Hi Tynk, what is this wonder product?
>
>Cheers
>

It's the correct* live nitrifying bacteria that is in our tanks.
Bio Spira will cycle your tank in 24 hours.
NO new tank syndrome.
It's great stuff. It actually works, unlike all the other "cycling" products
which contain the wrong bacteria.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
>From: "Rick"
>Date: 6/22/2004 1:40 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>>
>> Hi Tynk, what is this wonder product?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> A
>>
>basically instant cycling of your tank within reason. Set up your tank, add
>the biospira and some fish and your in business no need to wait about 30
>days for your tank to cycle. The last I heard about the product was that it
>was selling faster than they could produce it so they took it off the market
>and did not plan to reintroduce it until September. That was a month or two
>ago. The problem with the product going bad was one of the reasons discussed
>at that time so one would think that if it is once again commercially
>available they would have improved it. Hard to blame the manufacturer of the
>product for the stupidity of others though.
>
>Rick
>

I agree Rick, but *because of the stupidity out there, the customer should be
able to see the product and be able to tell if it's viable or not.

[Rick]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
> >From: "Rick"
> >Date: 6/22/2004 1:40 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >"Ali Day" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >>
> >> Hi Tynk, what is this wonder product?
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> A
> >>
> >basically instant cycling of your tank within reason. Set up your tank,
add
> >the biospira and some fish and your in business no need to wait about 30
> >days for your tank to cycle. The last I heard about the product was that
it
> >was selling faster than they could produce it so they took it off the
market
> >and did not plan to reintroduce it until September. That was a month or
two
> >ago. The problem with the product going bad was one of the reasons
discussed
> >at that time so one would think that if it is once again commercially
> >available they would have improved it. Hard to blame the manufacturer of
the
> >product for the stupidity of others though.
> >
> >Rick
> >
>
> I agree Rick, but *because of the stupidity out there, the customer should
be
> able to see the product and be able to tell if it's viable or not.


yes, for sure. I have not seen the product but I assume it would come in a
bottle and likely the average person adding this stuff may have no idea
whether the bacteria is alive or dead which could be a costly mistake.

Rick

[Ali Day]

> It's the correct* live nitrifying bacteria that is in our tanks.
> Bio Spira will cycle your tank in 24 hours.
> NO new tank syndrome.
> It's great stuff. It actually works, unlike all the other "cycling"
products
> which contain the wrong bacteria.

This is the stuff I use, is it the same. I used it to start my new aquarium,
but it was seeded from the old one, so I don't know how effective this stuff
is on its own. I've also used it after a PH crash. Is it similar?

http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/biodigest.htm

Cheers

A

[Harry Muscle]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
>
> > It's the correct* live nitrifying bacteria that is in our tanks.
> > Bio Spira will cycle your tank in 24 hours.
> > NO new tank syndrome.
> > It's great stuff. It actually works, unlike all the other "cycling"
> products
> > which contain the wrong bacteria.
>
> This is the stuff I use, is it the same. I used it to start my new
aquarium,
> but it was seeded from the old one, so I don't know how effective this
stuff
> is on its own. I've also used it after a PH crash. Is it similar?
>
> http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/biodigest.htm
>
> s
>
> A
>
>

As far as I know only Marineland knows (and has the patent for) exactly
which bacteria are involved in the nitrogen cycle. It's also the only
product you'll ever read reviews about where people say it actually works.
So chances are what you're using is just another one of those non working
bottles of the wrong bacteria.

Harry

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
>From: "Ali Day"
>Date: 6/24/2004 1:38 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>> It's the correct* live nitrifying bacteria that is in our tanks.
>> Bio Spira will cycle your tank in 24 hours.
>> NO new tank syndrome.
>> It's great stuff. It actually works, unlike all the other "cycling"
>products
>> which contain the wrong bacteria.
>
>This is the stuff I use, is it the same. I used it to start my new aquarium,
>but it was seeded from the old one, so I don't know how effective this stuff
>is on its own. I've also used it after a PH crash. Is it similar?
>
>http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/biodigest.htm
>
>Cheers
>
>A

I read which bacteria the product you're using has in it, and according to
research, it's the wrong wrong.
Nitrosprira bacteria is the correct type, not nitrobactor (sp?),as in your
product.
The research says it does do some good, but not enough, and it's' not for fresh
water systems. Nitrospria is the correct type for freshwater.
What system are you? Fresh or marine (hopefully Marine in your case.)
Also, seeding from another tank also really helped you out. It would be too
hard to say if helped or not because of it too. = )
Here's the research I was refering to:
http://marineland.com/science/biospirarep/6Nitrobacter.asp
The freshwate

[McEve]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
> >Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
> >From: "Ali Day"
> >Date: 6/24/2004 1:38 AM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >
> >> It's the correct* live nitrifying bacteria that is in our tanks.
> >> Bio Spira will cycle your tank in 24 hours.
> >> NO new tank syndrome.
> >> It's great stuff. It actually works, unlike all the other "cycling"
> >products
> >> which contain the wrong bacteria.
> >
> >This is the stuff I use, is it the same. I used it to start my new
aquarium,
> >but it was seeded from the old one, so I don't know how effective this
stuff
> >is on its own. I've also used it after a PH crash. Is it similar?
> >
> >http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/biodigest.htm
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >A
>
> I read which bacteria the product you're using has in it, and according to
> research, it's the wrong wrong.
> Nitrosprira bacteria is the correct type, not nitrobactor (sp?),as in your
> product.
> The research says it does do some good, but not enough, and it's' not for
fresh
> water systems. Nitrospria is the correct type for freshwater.
> What system are you? Fresh or marine (hopefully Marine in your case.)
> Also, seeding from another tank also really helped you out. It would be
too
> hard to say if helped or not because of it too. = )
> Here's the research I was refering to:
> http://marineland.com/science/biospirarep/6Nitrobacter.asp
> The freshwate

This is not a tank cycling product, but it does claim to remove nitrite.
http://www.algone.com/ is this a product that's worth while using?

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
>From: "McEve"
>Date: 6/24/2004 2:12 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>> >Subject: Re: Marineland contacted me Bio Spira
>> >From: "Ali Day"
>> >Date: 6/24/2004 1:38 AM Central Daylight Time
>> >Message-id: >
>> >
>> >
>> >> It's the correct* live nitrifying bacteria that is in our tanks.
>> >> Bio Spira will cycle your tank in 24 hours.
>> >> NO new tank syndrome.
>> >> It's great stuff. It actually works, unlike all the other "cycling"
>> >products
>> >> which contain the wrong bacteria.
>> >
>> >This is the stuff I use, is it the same. I used it to start my new
>aquarium,
>> >but it was seeded from the old one, so I don't know how effective this
>stuff
>> >is on its own. I've also used it after a PH crash. Is it similar?
>> >
>> >http://www.prodibio.fr/anglais/biodigest.htm
>> >
>> >Cheers
>> >
>> >A
>>
>> I read which bacteria the product you're using has in it, and according to
>> research, it's the wrong wrong.
>> Nitrosprira bacteria is the correct type, not nitrobactor (sp?),as in your
>> product.
>> The research says it does do some good, but not enough, and it's' not for
>fresh
>> water systems. Nitrospria is the correct type for freshwater.
>> What system are you? Fresh or marine (hopefully Marine in your case.)
>> Also, seeding from another tank also really helped you out. It would be
>too
>> hard to say if helped or not because of it too. = )
>> Here's the research I was refering to:
>> http://marineland.com/science/biospirarep/6Nitrobacter.asp
>> The freshwate
>
>This is not a tank cycling product, but it does claim to remove nitrite.
>http://www.algone.com/ is this a product that's worth while using?

Personally, I would never use a chemical algae killer.
It usually does more harm than good.

[McEve]

"TYNK 7" > wrote in message
...
>
> Personally, I would never use a chemical algae killer.
> It usually does more harm than good.

I know, but what they say is that this is a bacterial product that helps
turning nitrite into nitrate. thereby controlling the algae that feed off
nitrite. Or have I misunderstood the concept behind this product...?

Just wondered if somebody had any experience with it, or if this is a
product that contains the wrong type of bacteria as well...

[NetMax]

"McEve" > wrote in message
...
>
> "TYNK 7" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Personally, I would never use a chemical algae killer.
> > It usually does more harm than good.
>
> I know, but what they say is that this is a bacterial product that
helps
> turning nitrite into nitrate. thereby controlling the algae that feed
off
> nitrite. Or have I misunderstood the concept behind this product...?
>
> Just wondered if somebody had any experience with it, or if this is a
> product that contains the wrong type of bacteria as well...

I've heard about BioSpira, but I'm not familiar with that other product,
however 2 considerations:

1) Most chemical & biological processes which you put into motion
(hardeners, softeners, bacteria, phosphate removers, pH up, down etc)
will create a temporary (usually) imbalance (not balance). The result
you are looking for is after the chemical process has completed itself
and often after the other water parameters have balanced back around to
reach some stability. This period of change is rarely good for fish,
only the stable results are desirable. This is why you should be very
leery of adding chemicals into a fish-tank. Also, whatever benefit (or
damage) they cause, is diluted by your water changes, creating more
changes for the fish.

In the case of the bacteria starters, *you* are creating the initial
imbalance (adding a source of ammonia *fish* where no ammonia processing
capability existed). Adding another imbalance (a chemical which by your
description nitrifies NO2 into NO3) may either cause a bacterial niche to
be empty (normally filled by nitrospira, nitrobacter and various other
cousins) or it might over-fill it (so you have a bacterial bloom). The
desired result is then waiting for the chemical to disappear or dissipate
(so the food niche can be properly filled), or for the bacteria groups to
adjust their species and populations up or down.

The bottom line is to be aware that chemicals will rarely do what you
want right away, and will often not do want you need in the manner you
(and your fish) would like it done. Definitely a case of ymmv. Use
judiciously with water changes at the ready ;~)

2) There is a level of testing which manufacturers apply to products
intended for human consumption. This level of diligence has almost *NO*
similarity to the level of testing done for products intended for
recreational fish *sorry*. They often have the disclaimer (to maintain
their loophole), 'not for use on fish intended for human consumption'.
If a product's use results in fish losses, the LFS feedback may cause the
manufacturer to either tweak the recipe or discontinue its production.
There is no lawsuits, media attention, compensation etc etc. There is
just hobbyists grumbling that product XYZ either did nothing or killed
their fish (and with all the other variables, both are hard to prove).
It would be nice to imagine big shiny testing labs where they have this
matrices to test their products on a) different species of fish, b)
different sizes of fish, c) different water acidities, temperatures,
hardness and d) in combination with other medicinal or water
parameter-changing products (theirs and from their competitors) - but it
just isn't so. Regardless of whatever best effort any manufacturer can
invest before the pressure of releasing a new product moves them, the
single best guardian of your fish's health is you, and a healthy
scepticism ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[McEve]

"NetMax" > wrote in message news:m1YCc.36647> I've
heard about BioSpira, but I'm not familiar with that other product,
> however 2 considerations:
>
> 1) Most chemical & biological processes which you put into motion
> (hardeners, softeners, bacteria, phosphate removers, pH up, down etc)
> will create a temporary (usually) imbalance (not balance). The result
> you are looking for is after the chemical process has completed itself
> and often after the other water parameters have balanced back around to
> reach some stability. This period of change is rarely good for fish,
> only the stable results are desirable. This is why you should be very
> leery of adding chemicals into a fish-tank. Also, whatever benefit (or
> damage) they cause, is diluted by your water changes, creating more
> changes for the fish.
>
> In the case of the bacteria starters, *you* are creating the initial
> imbalance (adding a source of ammonia *fish* where no ammonia processing
> capability existed). Adding another imbalance (a chemical which by your
> description nitrifies NO2 into NO3) may either cause a bacterial niche to
> be empty (normally filled by nitrospira, nitrobacter and various other
> cousins) or it might over-fill it (so you have a bacterial bloom). The
> desired result is then waiting for the chemical to disappear or dissipate
> (so the food niche can be properly filled), or for the bacteria groups to
> adjust their species and populations up or down.
>
> The bottom line is to be aware that chemicals will rarely do what you
> want right away, and will often not do want you need in the manner you
> (and your fish) would like it done. Definitely a case of ymmv. Use
> judiciously with water changes at the ready ;~)
>
> 2) There is a level of testing which manufacturers apply to products
> intended for human consumption. This level of diligence has almost *NO*
> similarity to the level of testing done for products intended for
> recreational fish *sorry*. They often have the disclaimer (to maintain
> their loophole), 'not for use on fish intended for human consumption'.
> If a product's use results in fish losses, the LFS feedback may cause the
> manufacturer to either tweak the recipe or discontinue its production.
> There is no lawsuits, media attention, compensation etc etc. There is
> just hobbyists grumbling that product XYZ either did nothing or killed
> their fish (and with all the other variables, both are hard to prove).
> It would be nice to imagine big shiny testing labs where they have this
> matrices to test their products on a) different species of fish, b)
> different sizes of fish, c) different water acidities, temperatures,
> hardness and d) in combination with other medicinal or water
> parameter-changing products (theirs and from their competitors) - but it
> just isn't so. Regardless of whatever best effort any manufacturer can
> invest before the pressure of releasing a new product moves them, the
> single best guardian of your fish's health is you, and a healthy
> scepticism ;~).
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

Bottom line is very often, as my grandmother used to say:

"if it sounds too good to be true - it probably is" :)

Thanks NetMax