Mystery disease

[Mean_Chlorine]

Background: a few days ago I saw that some of my fish had minute spots
on their fins and increased slime production _on one side of their
body_. On either left or right they had like long white "blisters",
and were sloughing off slime. The other side of their body looked
perfectly normal.
The attacked fish had problems swimming, they were "moving their
heads" while swimming, like they were partly paralyzed or had nerve
damage.

No fishes had died, but several looked like they were about to.

I've recently had what might have been Chilodonella in another
aquarium, and I figured this was probably it, too. So, I put in enough
formalin to reach 20 ppm (4 milliliters to 160 liters, should be
completely safe for fish), and overnight the spots disappeared, and
the swimming improved. The "blisters" and slime remained, but I
thought it just took a while to heal. I did a water change, thought
that that was that.

Well, during the night 20 fish died. Even fish which last night seemed
perfectly healthy and never showed any symptoms. And all the fish
which were sick (and are still alive) are having problems swimming
again.

Casualties: 10/12 neon tetras, 3/4 lamp eyes, 3/7) platy, 1/5
Pseudorasbora vaterifloris, 1/5 ricefish och 2/2 siamese algae eaters.

Surviving ricefish, pseudorasboras and platys are very poorly; the two
surviving neons look as healthy as their now dead mates did last
evening.

I also have a group of Microrasbora erythromicron in the tank. They
seem completely unaffected - no dead, no symptoms, happy as ever.

So - more than half of the stock killed in one night! What the heck is
going on here???

I've never, in 30 years of keeping aquaria, seen anything like this
before; and I have never lost this many fish in one night before.
What disease produces apparent nerve damage and causes blistering and
slime production on _one side_ of the body???

I'm stumped. Any ideas?

At the moment I'm doing large water changes, on the assumption it's a
poisoning of some sort.

[NetMax]

"Mean_Chlorine" > wrote in message
om...
> Background: a few days ago I saw that some of my fish had minute spots
> on their fins and increased slime production _on one side of their
> body_. On either left or right they had like long white "blisters",
> and were sloughing off slime. The other side of their body looked
> perfectly normal.
> The attacked fish had problems swimming, they were "moving their
> heads" while swimming, like they were partly paralyzed or had nerve
> damage.
>
> No fishes had died, but several looked like they were about to.
>
> I've recently had what might have been Chilodonella in another
> aquarium, and I figured this was probably it, too. So, I put in enough
> formalin to reach 20 ppm (4 milliliters to 160 liters, should be
> completely safe for fish), and overnight the spots disappeared, and
> the swimming improved. The "blisters" and slime remained, but I
> thought it just took a while to heal. I did a water change, thought
> that that was that.
>
> Well, during the night 20 fish died. Even fish which last night seemed
> perfectly healthy and never showed any symptoms. And all the fish
> which were sick (and are still alive) are having problems swimming
> again.
>
> Casualties: 10/12 neon tetras, 3/4 lamp eyes, 3/7) platy, 1/5
> Pseudorasbora vaterifloris, 1/5 ricefish och 2/2 siamese algae eaters.
>
> Surviving ricefish, pseudorasboras and platys are very poorly; the two
> surviving neons look as healthy as their now dead mates did last
> evening.
>
> I also have a group of Microrasbora erythromicron in the tank. They
> seem completely unaffected - no dead, no symptoms, happy as ever.
>
> So - more than half of the stock killed in one night! What the heck is
> going on here???
>
> I've never, in 30 years of keeping aquaria, seen anything like this
> before; and I have never lost this many fish in one night before.
> What disease produces apparent nerve damage and causes blistering and
> slime production on _one side_ of the body???
>
> I'm stumped. Any ideas?
>
> At the moment I'm doing large water changes, on the assumption it's a
> poisoning of some sort.

I've cross-posted you over to alt.aquaria in case Frank can offer some
advice. I know too little about fish diseases to do much more than give
you some of the links I use (below). Myself, I would not suspect poison,
but would instead be looking at sporazoans & flesh eating bacterias. I
have a few texts at work that I reference, and I've seen photos of
something similar, but I won't be back there till Monday. You're
probably going to have to give them a (salt) dip or rubdown, but I can't
recommend a medicine without my books.

http://www.angelfire.com/or2/cichlid102/Disease/symptoms_index.htm
http://www.cichlid.nl/Cichlids%20of%20Central%20America/diseasesEN.htm
http://animalatlas.com/encyclo/information/freshwater_fish/Diseases.htm
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/symptoms.html
http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/
http://www.fishesrus.com/disease.html
http://www.fish-disease.com/Diseases.htm
http://www.2cah.com/pandora/Disease.html#External
--
www.NetMax.tk

[NetMax]

Thanks Frank! Mike's a regular contributor. I hope this helps him out.
--
www.NetMax.tk

"Frankrkay" > wrote in message
...
> >"NetMax" wrote;
>
> > I would not suspect poison,
> >but would instead be looking at sporazoans & flesh eating bacterias.
>
> I agree, a poison strong enough to kill half the stock would have
killed, or
> had some kind of effect on *all* the fish in the tank, ie; gasping,
darting,
> hypeructivity, followed by sudden death.
>
> > At the moment I'm doing large water changes ......
>
> Unless you have been doing all along, 2 or 3, 20 to 30 % water changes
> *weekly*, _don't_ change any more than 20% daily, as any larger amount
changed,
> would also change the osmotic pressure to quickly, resulting in
unrepairable
> damage to the fishs gills, or death.
>
> I suspect the tank has hard, alkaline water, and/or it's temp. is on
the warm
> side (?) It sounds like Flexibacter Disease, brought on by stress. The
disease
> is highly contagious, kills fast in higher temps. and hard, alkaline
water. A
> stressed fish include the secretion of stress hormones, which will
stress the
> other fish, thus, an "advanced stress condition", which depress' immune
> systems, and, as with yours, secondary infections. Like NetMax, I would
dip the
> fish for 30 sec. in a 3% bath, striping their slime coat and any skin
fungi
> with it. Treat with QuickCure, days 1, 4, 7, and 10, changing 20% of
the water
> *before* each dose. The formaldehyde within this medication will keep
from a
> parasite infection - the malachite green within the medication takes
care of
> any fungus infection. For the flex. disease, being bacterial origin,
treat the
> tank with an antibiotic. Kanamycin, or Maracyn Two are not harmfull to
the
> bio-filter. You should also feed a medicated food for 10 days - _NOT_
Tetra's,
> as flex. disease is resistant - something with oxytetracycline or
erythromycin
> would work best. ......... Frank

[Mean_Chlorine]

Cheers!

Yes, it IS a tank with hard, alkaline, water, and yes the fish WERE
stressed (the suspected Chilodonella + the formalin).

I'll quarantine the tank and let the disease burn out.
Hopefully the microrasboras are immune, not carriers.


"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> Thanks Frank! Mike's a regular contributor. I hope this helps him out.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
> "Frankrkay" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >"NetMax" wrote;
>
> > > I would not suspect poison,
> > >but would instead be looking at sporazoans & flesh eating bacterias.
> >
> > I agree, a poison strong enough to kill half the stock would have
> killed, or
> > had some kind of effect on *all* the fish in the tank, ie; gasping,
> darting,
> > hypeructivity, followed by sudden death.
> >
> > > At the moment I'm doing large water changes ......
> >
> > Unless you have been doing all along, 2 or 3, 20 to 30 % water changes
> > *weekly*, _don't_ change any more than 20% daily, as any larger amount
> changed,
> > would also change the osmotic pressure to quickly, resulting in
> unrepairable
> > damage to the fishs gills, or death.
> >
> > I suspect the tank has hard, alkaline water, and/or it's temp. is on
> the warm
> > side (?) It sounds like Flexibacter Disease, brought on by stress. The
> disease
> > is highly contagious, kills fast in higher temps. and hard, alkaline
> water. A
> > stressed fish include the secretion of stress hormones, which will
> stress the
> > other fish, thus, an "advanced stress condition", which depress' immune
> > systems, and, as with yours, secondary infections. Like NetMax, I would
> dip the
> > fish for 30 sec. in a 3% bath, striping their slime coat and any skin
> fungi
> > with it. Treat with QuickCure, days 1, 4, 7, and 10, changing 20% of
> the water
> > *before* each dose. The formaldehyde within this medication will keep
> from a
> > parasite infection - the malachite green within the medication takes
> care of
> > any fungus infection. For the flex. disease, being bacterial origin,
> treat the
> > tank with an antibiotic. Kanamycin, or Maracyn Two are not harmfull to
> the
> > bio-filter. You should also feed a medicated food for 10 days - _NOT_
> Tetra's,
> > as flex. disease is resistant - something with oxytetracycline or
> erythromycin
> > would work best. ......... Frank