How much filtering will I need

[chas good]

I posted thisin the tech group but it seems to be a bit slow.

I have a 37gal with the Eclipse3 hood. Filter and bio-wheel built into
the hood. Rated at 250GPH. I think it is less. Pump riser tube is on
the left side of the tank. 2 water outlets on the right side of the
tank from the filter and you can direct the flow in any direction. I
like the fact that the inlet and discharge are far apart.
The down side is the filter cartridge is small and the coarse blue
poly fiber wasn't doing the job. So I cut out the fiber media from the
plactic frame and replaced it with white floss and put it in a net
bag. This helped. Water is clearer. Then I purchased a coarse foam
media made for the AquaClear filters. Cut a slit in it and placed it
over the inlet of the riser tube in place of the plastic strainer.
This acts as a pre filter and I hope a place for bacteria to thrive.

It is a new tank. Been out of the hobby for several years. First fish
on the 9th of June. Cycling right now with 6 Tiger Barbs. Put a
package of Aponogeton bulbs in at the same time so have 9 plants
growing.
Plan to put 5 or 6 tetras in next. Maybe Serpae. Would like to place
a pair of dwarf cichlids in the tank too.
I am thinking of adding more filtration before the tank is full of
fish. Thinking a canister might be overkill. HOB or HOT power filters
will not work with this hood.
I was thinking a sponge filter should do the trick. Just to help out
the built in filter.
Will this be enough or should I give a canister more thought?
Any suggestions?

Chasgood

[NetMax]

"chas good" > wrote in message
...
> I posted thisin the tech group but it seems to be a bit slow.
>
> I have a 37gal with the Eclipse3 hood. Filter and bio-wheel built into
> the hood. Rated at 250GPH. I think it is less. Pump riser tube is on
> the left side of the tank. 2 water outlets on the right side of the
> tank from the filter and you can direct the flow in any direction. I
> like the fact that the inlet and discharge are far apart.
> The down side is the filter cartridge is small and the coarse blue
> poly fiber wasn't doing the job. So I cut out the fiber media from the
> plactic frame and replaced it with white floss and put it in a net
> bag. This helped. Water is clearer. Then I purchased a coarse foam
> media made for the AquaClear filters. Cut a slit in it and placed it
> over the inlet of the riser tube in place of the plastic strainer.
> This acts as a pre filter and I hope a place for bacteria to thrive.
>
> It is a new tank. Been out of the hobby for several years. First fish
> on the 9th of June. Cycling right now with 6 Tiger Barbs. Put a
> package of Aponogeton bulbs in at the same time so have 9 plants
> growing.
> Plan to put 5 or 6 tetras in next. Maybe Serpae. Would like to place
> a pair of dwarf cichlids in the tank too.
> I am thinking of adding more filtration before the tank is full of
> fish. Thinking a canister might be overkill. HOB or HOT power filters
> will not work with this hood.
> I was thinking a sponge filter should do the trick. Just to help out
> the built in filter.
> Will this be enough or should I give a canister more thought?
> Any suggestions?
>
> Chasgood

Yours is a common concern. Note that your bio-wheel should be carrying a
significant portion of the biological filtration, so your concerns would
be turbulence (which seems high enough), and mechanical (which is
probably your biggest weakness). A sponge filter's forte is biological,
so you would not be targeting your weakness. Typically, the solution is
a combination of a low stocking of smaller types of fish, doing a bit
more gravel vacuuming, and adding more plant ground cover (do you know
how big Aponogeton usually get?!?). If you were strapped for space and
only had the one tank, adding a small internal canister is another option
sometimes used. Although is steals precious internal space, these
canisters do a good mechanical job (requiring more effort to keep them
cleaned out), they are very flexible in placement, easy to hide and
silent. More info here
http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/filters/filters.shtml#spog . In
particular, a fluval internal canister uses a very similar sponge media
as the AquaClear, which you are already familiar with in terms of
coarseness, for high flow mechanical pickup.

A canister would not be overkill (my own 40g runs off a 304 canister),
but weighing your current system with the type of fish you are
considering, I'd approach this without an external canister.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[chas good]

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 11:03:38 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"chas good" > wrote in message
...
>> I posted thisin the tech group but it seems to be a bit slow.
>>
>> I have a 37gal with the Eclipse3 hood. Filter and bio-wheel built into
>> the hood. Rated at 250GPH. I think it is less. Pump riser tube is on
>> the left side of the tank. 2 water outlets on the right side of the
>> tank from the filter and you can direct the flow in any direction. I
>> like the fact that the inlet and discharge are far apart.
>> The down side is the filter cartridge is small and the coarse blue
>> poly fiber wasn't doing the job. So I cut out the fiber media from the
>> plactic frame and replaced it with white floss and put it in a net
>> bag. This helped. Water is clearer. Then I purchased a coarse foam
>> media made for the AquaClear filters. Cut a slit in it and placed it
>> over the inlet of the riser tube in place of the plastic strainer.
>> This acts as a pre filter and I hope a place for bacteria to thrive.
>>
>> It is a new tank. Been out of the hobby for several years. First fish
>> on the 9th of June. Cycling right now with 6 Tiger Barbs. Put a
>> package of Aponogeton bulbs in at the same time so have 9 plants
>> growing.
>> Plan to put 5 or 6 tetras in next. Maybe Serpae. Would like to place
>> a pair of dwarf cichlids in the tank too.
>> I am thinking of adding more filtration before the tank is full of
>> fish. Thinking a canister might be overkill. HOB or HOT power filters
>> will not work with this hood.
>> I was thinking a sponge filter should do the trick. Just to help out
>> the built in filter.
>> Will this be enough or should I give a canister more thought?
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> Chasgood
>
>Yours is a common concern. Note that your bio-wheel should be carrying a
>significant portion of the biological filtration, so your concerns would
>be turbulence (which seems high enough), and mechanical (which is
>probably your biggest weakness). A sponge filter's forte is biological,
>so you would not be targeting your weakness. Typically, the solution is
>a combination of a low stocking of smaller types of fish, doing a bit
>more gravel vacuuming, and adding more plant ground cover (do you know
>how big Aponogeton usually get?!?). If you were strapped for space and
>only had the one tank, adding a small internal canister is another option
>sometimes used. Although is steals precious internal space, these
>canisters do a good mechanical job (requiring more effort to keep them
>cleaned out), they are very flexible in placement, easy to hide and
>silent. More info here
>http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/filters/filters.shtml#spog . In
>particular, a fluval internal canister uses a very similar sponge media
>as the AquaClear, which you are already familiar with in terms of
>coarseness, for high flow mechanical pickup.
>
>A canister would not be overkill (my own 40g runs off a 304 canister),
>but weighing your current system with the type of fish you are
>considering, I'd approach this without an external canister.

I was afraid of that. Don't really care to put a bulky internal filter
in the tank.
For twice the price of the internal I can have a real canister. Then I
can just take the filter cartridge out of the Eclipse but run the pump
for the bio-wheel.
The smallest ViaAqua the 230 is $45 online. About the same price as
the smallest Fluval the 104.

[chas good]

Well I was looking at filters at the lfs and the AquaClear "Quick
filter" for powerheads caught my eye. It seems to have good mechanical
filtering media (down to 1 micron the box says). So I bought it and a
AquaClear 20 (used to be called the 201) powerhead. Think I can get by
without name brand replacement media using the polyfiber floss.
The box shows 2 or more of these filters can be stacked together
Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built in.

[AAA]

"chas good" > wrote in message
...
> Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built in.
>
airpump & stone do nothing for the fish. It is 100% decorative for you.

[nunya]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:13:55 -0700, AAA wrote:

>
> "chas good" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built in.
>>
> airpump & stone do nothing for the fish. It is 100% decorative for you.
Airpump and stone DO something FOR the fish. Will not add oxygen to water
directly to speak of. But DOES provide movement which DOES benefit the
fish greatly in aeration by replacing the surface constantly, which DOES
allow for oxygen exchange to take place.
FAR from being 100% decorative, actually not in the least.

[NetMax]

"nunya" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:13:55 -0700, AAA wrote:
>
> >
> > "chas good" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built in.
> >>
> > airpump & stone do nothing for the fish. It is 100% decorative for
you.

> Airpump and stone DO something FOR the fish. Will not add oxygen to
water
> directly to speak of. But DOES provide movement which DOES benefit the
> fish greatly in aeration by replacing the surface constantly, which
DOES
> allow for oxygen exchange to take place.
> FAR from being 100% decorative, actually not in the least.

I think it's a matter of degrees. Airstones *do* add O2 to the water
directly. Assuming there is less O2 in the water than in the air bubble,
then the amount of O2 released into the water is approximately the bubble
surface area x contact time (small slow moving bubbles release more O2
than big fast bubbles).

Is the amount of O2 released by airstones significant in a properly
filtered normally stocked tank? Probably not, (though adding an airstone
will sometimes produce some behavioural changes, such as increased
appetite and activity levels, which could be attributed to a slightly
higher O2 level).

Is the amount of O2 released by airstones significant in an over-stocked
tank. Absolutely.

I think the biggest O2 benefit from airstones comes from their ability to
pick up water from depths with no exposure to the air, and carry the
water across the surface, where they become re-oxygenated. A proper
filter system should do the same thing.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[AAA]

"nunya" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:13:55 -0700, AAA wrote:
>
> >
> > "chas good" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built
in.
> >>
> > airpump & stone do nothing for the fish. It is 100% decorative for
you.
> Airpump and stone DO something FOR the fish. Will not add oxygen to
water
> directly to speak of. But DOES provide movement which DOES benefit the
> fish greatly in aeration by replacing the surface constantly, which
DOES
> allow for oxygen exchange to take place.
> FAR from being 100% decorative, actually not in the least.

Yeah, your right. Petco employee?

[AAA]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> "nunya" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:13:55 -0700, AAA wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "chas good" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >> Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built
in.
> > >>
> > > airpump & stone do nothing for the fish. It is 100% decorative for
> you.
>
> > Airpump and stone DO something FOR the fish. Will not add oxygen to
> water
> > directly to speak of. But DOES provide movement which DOES benefit
the
> > fish greatly in aeration by replacing the surface constantly, which
> DOES
> > allow for oxygen exchange to take place.
> > FAR from being 100% decorative, actually not in the least.
>
> I think it's a matter of degrees. Airstones *do* add O2 to the water
> directly. Assuming there is less O2 in the water than in the air
bubble,
> then the amount of O2 released into the water is approximately the
bubble
> surface area x contact time (small slow moving bubbles release more O2
> than big fast bubbles).
>
> Is the amount of O2 released by airstones significant in a properly
> filtered normally stocked tank? Probably not, (though adding an
airstone
> will sometimes produce some behavioural changes, such as increased
> appetite and activity levels, which could be attributed to a slightly
> higher O2 level).
>
> Is the amount of O2 released by airstones significant in an
over-stocked
> tank. Absolutely.
>
> I think the biggest O2 benefit from airstones comes from their ability
to
> pick up water from depths with no exposure to the air, and carry the
> water across the surface, where they become re-oxygenated. A proper
> filter system should do the same thing.
> --
> www.NetMax.tk
>
>

You must be his boss.

[chas good]

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:40:58 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>"nunya" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:13:55 -0700, AAA wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "chas good" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Was going to buy a airpump and stone but this has aeration built in.
>> >>
>> > airpump & stone do nothing for the fish. It is 100% decorative for
>you.
>
>> Airpump and stone DO something FOR the fish. Will not add oxygen to
>water
>> directly to speak of. But DOES provide movement which DOES benefit the
>> fish greatly in aeration by replacing the surface constantly, which
>DOES
>> allow for oxygen exchange to take place.
>> FAR from being 100% decorative, actually not in the least.
>
>I think it's a matter of degrees. Airstones *do* add O2 to the water
>directly. Assuming there is less O2 in the water than in the air bubble,
>then the amount of O2 released into the water is approximately the bubble
>surface area x contact time (small slow moving bubbles release more O2
>than big fast bubbles).
>
>Is the amount of O2 released by airstones significant in a properly
>filtered normally stocked tank? Probably not, (though adding an airstone
>will sometimes produce some behavioural changes, such as increased
>appetite and activity levels, which could be attributed to a slightly
>higher O2 level).
>
>Is the amount of O2 released by airstones significant in an over-stocked
>tank. Absolutely.
>
>I think the biggest O2 benefit from airstones comes from their ability to
>pick up water from depths with no exposure to the air, and carry the
>water across the surface, where they become re-oxygenated. A proper
>filter system should do the same thing.

Also when the air bubble breaks thru the surface tension of the water
and pops. This agitates the water helping surface gas exchange. Like
what a wave does on a lake or ocean only smaller in scale.

[NetMax]

"chas good" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:40:58 -0400, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
> >"nunya" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 12:13:55 -0700, AAA wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "chas good" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
<snip>

> >I think the biggest O2 benefit from airstones comes from their ability
to
> >pick up water from depths with no exposure to the air, and carry the
> >water across the surface, where they become re-oxygenated. A proper
> >filter system should do the same thing.
>
> Also when the air bubble breaks thru the surface tension of the water
> and pops. This agitates the water helping surface gas exchange. Like
> what a wave does on a lake or ocean only smaller in scale.

Good point. Periodically there is speculation on whether the surface
skim (a protein layer) interferes with the re-oxygenation. I've never
seen supporting data one way or another. In swamp environments, I've
seen very thick skim with air bubbles trapped in it, but I think most
hobbyists assume that a minimal amount will not interfere with a normally
operating tank, though bubbles breaking that tension would removes the
skim as a consideration.
--
www.NetMax.tk