my freshwater moray eel ate my african cichlid!

[Michael Gu]

I have a 10 gal. freshwater tank. It was initially occupied with 12 feeder
minnows. After about 2 weeks, 8 have died and 4 survived. I put it a 2"
African cichlid, the aggressive type. The cichlid doesn't seem to be too
interested in the minnows and they lived together for about 2 weeks.

One day I found freshwater moray eels for sale at Petco for $5. I couldn't
resist the temptation. After all, the eels have always fascinated me. So I
brought one home and put it in. It's about 12" long. The eel immediately
settled down at the cichlid's home - poor cichlid, it has worked quite a
while on its home and now it has to find another place. The eels doesn't
seems to be interested in the cichlid and the cichlid doesn't bother the eel
either - they seems to be quite at peace with each other, at least when the
light is on...

Then comes the next morning. At first, I was a bit puzzled when I couldn't
locate the cichlid. It doesn't take long to point all the suspicion toward
the eel. It's still curling under the rock, as usual, but breathing a little
more frequently than before. When I take a closer lock, I can see in the
middle of its body, there is a section that is bloated, and doesn't curl as
well as the rest - It's instantly obvious where the cichlid is!

This really came as a shock to me. I remember at the shop, I was talking
with others about how to feed the eel. One thing people seems to agree is
that eels are slow and shy, and the cichlids are fast and aggressive! I
never dreamed that the eel will ate its tank mates for dinner.

After that incident, the eel spent couple of days resting and enjoying its
dinner. The tank became peaceful again. Until one day, a minnow was missing.
In the 2 days following that, all the minnows were gone. Well, the shy, slow
eel has accomplished something the famously aggressive cichlid hasn't. Now I
know who the real hunter is.

It's been 2 weeks after that and the eel seems to be doing fine. It just ate
half of a prawn, which I dangled in front of its mouth.

Most people seems to agree that freshwater moray won't last long in
freshwater. Well, my eel is doing well so far. I'd like to point out one
thing, however, a lot of fish can survive and live well in both freshwater
and sal****er, and eel is certainly a very hardy fish! I'll continue my
experiment.

I wonder whether anyone has seen anything like that? Any experience with how
long freshwater moray eels can survive in freshwater?

Michael Gu

[JazzyB]

Did you say 10 gallon tank? That's a pretty small tank for the occupants
you HAD in that tank. Perhaps if you had all of those fish in a 40 or 55
they might have lasted.
"Michael Gu" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 10 gal. freshwater tank. It was initially occupied with 12 feeder
> minnows. After about 2 weeks, 8 have died and 4 survived. I put it a 2"
> African cichlid, the aggressive type. The cichlid doesn't seem to be too
> interested in the minnows and they lived together for about 2 weeks.
>
> One day I found freshwater moray eels for sale at Petco for $5. I couldn't
> resist the temptation. After all, the eels have always fascinated me. So I
> brought one home and put it in. It's about 12" long. The eel immediately
> settled down at the cichlid's home - poor cichlid, it has worked quite a
> while on its home and now it has to find another place. The eels doesn't
> seems to be interested in the cichlid and the cichlid doesn't bother the
eel
> either - they seems to be quite at peace with each other, at least when
the
> light is on...
>
> Then comes the next morning. At first, I was a bit puzzled when I couldn't
> locate the cichlid. It doesn't take long to point all the suspicion toward
> the eel. It's still curling under the rock, as usual, but breathing a
little
> more frequently than before. When I take a closer lock, I can see in the
> middle of its body, there is a section that is bloated, and doesn't curl
as
> well as the rest - It's instantly obvious where the cichlid is!
>
> This really came as a shock to me. I remember at the shop, I was talking
> with others about how to feed the eel. One thing people seems to agree is
> that eels are slow and shy, and the cichlids are fast and aggressive! I
> never dreamed that the eel will ate its tank mates for dinner.
>
> After that incident, the eel spent couple of days resting and enjoying its
> dinner. The tank became peaceful again. Until one day, a minnow was
missing.
> In the 2 days following that, all the minnows were gone. Well, the shy,
slow
> eel has accomplished something the famously aggressive cichlid hasn't. Now
I
> know who the real hunter is.
>
> It's been 2 weeks after that and the eel seems to be doing fine. It just
ate
> half of a prawn, which I dangled in front of its mouth.
>
> Most people seems to agree that freshwater moray won't last long in
> freshwater. Well, my eel is doing well so far. I'd like to point out one
> thing, however, a lot of fish can survive and live well in both freshwater
> and sal****er, and eel is certainly a very hardy fish! I'll continue my
> experiment.
>
> I wonder whether anyone has seen anything like that? Any experience with
how
> long freshwater moray eels can survive in freshwater?
>
> Michael Gu
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Geezer From The Freezer]

JazzyB wrote:
>
> Did you say 10 gallon tank? That's a pretty small tank for the occupants
> you HAD in that tank. Perhaps if you had all of those fish in a 40 or 55
> they might have lasted.

I was thinking the same thing!

[Happy'Cam'per]

I was thinking " wOW, what a complete ****** :o
--
**So long, and thanks for all the fish!**

"Geezer From The Freezer" > wrote in message
...

>
> I was thinking the same thing!

[RedForeman ©®]

|| I'll continue my experiment.

I worry about ppl like you....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
|| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>

is that better??

[Cookie]

I'll continue my
> experiment.


It's very sad that people like you own fish. Like someone mentioned,
your fish would have lasted longer if you would have had a bigger
tank. Since you now have the eel, for the eel's happiness and
longevitity, buy a tank of AT LEAST 30 gallons (long)and make it at
least a brackish water tank - ideally being salt water. But, from what
you have written, you obviously must be ignorant about fish and their
welfare, so I wouldn't recommend you have a salt water tank or a
brackish water tank, but since you have a MARINE fish, you need some
set-up with salt (NOT table salt - pet store sea salt.) And, don't
just dump salt in your tank, you need to read lots and lots of books
and web pages and ask your LFS for advice.

All I can say is that I wouldn't want to be your eel. Sad sad sad!


Saddened by ignorant people,

---Cookie

[McEve]

"Cookie" > wrote in message
om...
> I'll continue my
> > experiment.
>
>
> It's very sad that people like you own fish. Like someone mentioned,
> your fish would have lasted longer if you would have had a bigger
> tank. Since you now have the eel, for the eel's happiness and
> longevitity, buy a tank of AT LEAST 30 gallons (long)and make it at
> least a brackish water tank - ideally being salt water. But, from what
> you have written, you obviously must be ignorant about fish and their
> welfare, so I wouldn't recommend you have a salt water tank or a
> brackish water tank, but since you have a MARINE fish, you need some
> set-up with salt (NOT table salt - pet store sea salt.) And, don't
> just dump salt in your tank, you need to read lots and lots of books
> and web pages and ask your LFS for advice.
>
> All I can say is that I wouldn't want to be your eel. Sad sad sad!
>
>
> Saddened by ignorant people,
>
> ---Cookie

But Petco also has a responsibility for giving information when selling the
fish. If a customer doesn't know, then the retailer should enlighten the
customer of the fish's need. Why would they sell a moray as a freshwater
fish in the first place?

I just thought the OP was getting a lot of pepper, when he might just be
unknowing and a bit too enthusiastic...... Maybe he didn't mean "experiment"
in a mean way, it's easy to see a lab with animals being subjected to cruel
experiments from the way it was said, but maybe he meant "I'll keep trying
to find the best way to keep this eel happy"?

Maybe..... :-)

[RedForeman ©®]

||| All I can say is that I wouldn't want to be your eel. Sad sad sad!
|||
|||
||| Saddened by ignorant people,
|||
||| ---Cookie
||
|| But Petco also has a responsibility for giving information when
|| selling the fish. If a customer doesn't know, then the retailer
|| should enlighten the customer of the fish's need. Why would they
|| sell a moray as a freshwater fish in the first place?
||
|| I just thought the OP was getting a lot of pepper, when he might
|| just be unknowing and a bit too enthusiastic...... Maybe he didn't
|| mean "experiment" in a mean way, it's easy to see a lab with animals
|| being subjected to cruel experiments from the way it was said, but
|| maybe he meant "I'll keep trying to find the best way to keep this
|| eel happy"?
||
|| Maybe..... :-)

You have to know Chip.... Chip, is a dip... plain and simple..

Things Chip has said before.... ( I apologize upfront for this...)
" I **** in the tank, it's got ammonia, that's how I start a new tank..."
" I put my semen in the tank, it's full of protein and the fish really love
it "

So maybe now, you understand why we "act the way we do" toward Chip.. he's
just not that bright.... troll? maybe...

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
|| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
is that better??

[McEve]

"RedForeman ©®" > wrote in message
...
>
> You have to know Chip.... Chip, is a dip... plain and simple..
>
> Things Chip has said before.... ( I apologize upfront for this...)
> " I **** in the tank, it's got ammonia, that's how I start a new tank..."
> " I put my semen in the tank, it's full of protein and the fish really
love
> it "
>
> So maybe now, you understand why we "act the way we do" toward Chip.. he's
> just not that bright.... troll? maybe...
>

Ah.. IC. I didn't know he was well known. My goodness, I do hope people are
joking ( or trolling) when making statements like the ones you were quoting!
:-O

[RedForeman ©®]

|| Ah.. IC. I didn't know he was well known. My goodness, I do hope
|| people are joking ( or trolling) when making statements like the
|| ones you were quoting! :-O

MaddHatter, a well known but less frequent contributor... once went off so
hard that we thought the computers were going to break... you could see that
MH was at his wits end trying to get over those statements... I think we
all kinda became sick when Chip started posting.... I wouldn't miss 'em at
all...

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
|| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
is that better??

[Cichlidiot]

In sci.aquaria "RedForeman" > wrote:
> You have to know Chip.... Chip, is a dip... plain and simple..

That would be nice if the OP were Chip, but the OP tag isn't Chip and
isn't posting through Google either like Chip's latest r.a.f.c bit. Sure,
Chip's latest r.a.f.c bit also includes a 'freshwater moral eel', but that
is rather flimsy to base assumptions off just that one point. So, seeing
as you like to track Chip, other than the same fish being mentioned, why
do you think the OP is Chip?

Assuming the OP is legit (and there is much about the post to be
suspecious about, but I've seen worse that are real setups and it's far
more subtle than Chip has ever been), I'd have to question if the eel is a
moray eel or not. There are several varieties of freshwater eels. I
wouldn't trust chain stores to label fish properly as the local one once
sold obvious blue eye/convict hybrids as pure convicts. In fact, that
label is a common misnomer. Positive identification would be key to
continued husbandry for the eel.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwmorayeels.htm
http://www.infochembio.ethz.ch/links/en/zool_fische_muraenen.html

[RedForeman ©®]

|| That would be nice if the OP were Chip, but the OP tag isn't Chip and
|| isn't posting through Google either like Chip's latest r.a.f.c bit.
|| Sure, Chip's latest r.a.f.c bit also includes a 'freshwater moral
|| eel', but that is rather flimsy to base assumptions off just that
|| one point. So, seeing as you like to track Chip, other than the same
|| fish being mentioned, why do you think the OP is Chip?
||
|| Assuming the OP is legit (and there is much about the post to be
|| suspecious about, but I've seen worse that are real setups and it's
|| far more subtle than Chip has ever been), I'd have to question if
|| the eel is a moray eel or not. There are several varieties of
|| freshwater eels. I wouldn't trust chain stores to label fish
|| properly as the local one once sold obvious blue eye/convict hybrids
|| as pure convicts. In fact, that label is a common misnomer. Positive
|| identification would be key to continued husbandry for the eel.
||
|| http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwmorayeels.htm
|| http://www.infochembio.ethz.ch/links/en/zool_fische_muraenen.html

I stand corrected... that the OP isn't chip... my apologies... to the OP,
not chip....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
|| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
is that better??

[nuchumYussel]

> > Saddened by ignorant people,
> >
> > ---Cookie
>
> But Petco also has a responsibility for giving information when selling the
> fish. If a customer doesn't know, then the retailer should enlighten the
> customer of the fish's need. Why would they sell a moray as a freshwater
> fish in the first place?
>
> I just thought the OP was getting a lot of pepper, when he might just be
> unknowing and a bit too enthusiastic...... Maybe he didn't mean "experiment"
> in a mean way, it's easy to see a lab with animals being subjected to cruel
> experiments from the way it was said, but maybe he meant "I'll keep trying
> to find the best way to keep this eel happy"?
>
> Maybe..... :-)




Petco is not the only terrible place, an LFS near tried to sell me a
peacock eel for my full stocked 20g community, they also knew I was a
14 year old with limited money. Thankfully I knew what would happen if
I introduced the eel. I shudder when I think of how many fish that
store has sent to their death.

Evan Davis

[luminos]

"Cookie" > wrote in message
om...
> I'll continue my
> > experiment.
>
>
> It's very sad that people like you own fish. Like someone mentioned,
> your fish would have lasted longer if you would have had a bigger
> tank. Since you now have the eel, for the eel's happiness and
> longevitity, buy a tank of AT LEAST 30 gallons (long)and make it at
> least a brackish water tank - ideally being salt water.

WRONG. Find out something about the different species before you make such
arrogant and totally wrong statements.

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: my freshwater moray eel ate my african cichlid!
>From: "luminos"
>Date: 7/1/2004 10:39 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>
>"Cookie" > wrote in message
om...
>> I'll continue my
>> > experiment.
>>
>>
>> It's very sad that people like you own fish. Like someone mentioned,
>> your fish would have lasted longer if you would have had a bigger
>> tank. Since you now have the eel, for the eel's happiness and
>> longevitity, buy a tank of AT LEAST 30 gallons (long)and make it at
>> least a brackish water tank - ideally being salt water.
>
>WRONG. Find out something about the different species before you make such
>arrogant and totally wrong statements.
>

Out of curiosity, I did a search for "freshwater moray eel" and came up with
several sites on them. = /

http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0580&
view_records=1

[Johnny]

Are you sure it''s a moray eel? Or is it some kind of freshwater spinny eel.
Just curious.


"Michael Gu" > wrote in message
...
> I have a 10 gal. freshwater tank. It was initially occupied with 12 feeder
> minnows. After about 2 weeks, 8 have died and 4 survived. I put it a 2"
> African cichlid, the aggressive type. The cichlid doesn't seem to be too
> interested in the minnows and they lived together for about 2 weeks.
>
> One day I found freshwater moray eels for sale at Petco for $5. I couldn't
> resist the temptation. After all, the eels have always fascinated me. So I
> brought one home and put it in. It's about 12" long. The eel immediately
> settled down at the cichlid's home - poor cichlid, it has worked quite a
> while on its home and now it has to find another place. The eels doesn't
> seems to be interested in the cichlid and the cichlid doesn't bother the
eel
> either - they seems to be quite at peace with each other, at least when
the
> light is on...
>
> Then comes the next morning. At first, I was a bit puzzled when I couldn't
> locate the cichlid. It doesn't take long to point all the suspicion toward
> the eel. It's still curling under the rock, as usual, but breathing a
little
> more frequently than before. When I take a closer lock, I can see in the
> middle of its body, there is a section that is bloated, and doesn't curl
as
> well as the rest - It's instantly obvious where the cichlid is!
>
> This really came as a shock to me. I remember at the shop, I was talking
> with others about how to feed the eel. One thing people seems to agree is
> that eels are slow and shy, and the cichlids are fast and aggressive! I
> never dreamed that the eel will ate its tank mates for dinner.
>
> After that incident, the eel spent couple of days resting and enjoying its
> dinner. The tank became peaceful again. Until one day, a minnow was
missing.
> In the 2 days following that, all the minnows were gone. Well, the shy,
slow
> eel has accomplished something the famously aggressive cichlid hasn't. Now
I
> know who the real hunter is.
>
> It's been 2 weeks after that and the eel seems to be doing fine. It just
ate
> half of a prawn, which I dangled in front of its mouth.
>
> Most people seems to agree that freshwater moray won't last long in
> freshwater. Well, my eel is doing well so far. I'd like to point out one
> thing, however, a lot of fish can survive and live well in both freshwater
> and sal****er, and eel is certainly a very hardy fish! I'll continue my
> experiment.
>
> I wonder whether anyone has seen anything like that? Any experience with
how
> long freshwater moray eels can survive in freshwater?
>
> Michael Gu
>
>
>
>
>
>

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: Re: my freshwater moray eel ate my african cichlid!
>From: "Johnny"
>Date: 7/5/2004 8:06 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Are you sure it''s a moray eel? Or is it some kind of freshwater spinny eel.
>Just curious.
>

Do a search for "Freshwater Morray Eel" and you will come up with a few
different types. Basically, they're brackish, and some need to eventually go to
pure marine water, but (I think I'm remembering this right), but one could stay
in brackish water. None are actually "frreshwater", meaning it's kind of ok to
keep them in it for a short time, but need to be in brackish soon after.

[Dances With Ferrets]

Tirade # 533, or was it # 478? I really should keep track.

Speaking of Petco, they aren't the only chain filled with ignorant
fish salesmen..... I was at Wal-Mart the other day, buying kitty
litter, and I overheard a salesman say "Yeah, just pick one with
pretty colors, all the pretty ones get along together. " I was at a
loss whether to laugh or scream. "Pretty" could have meant African
cichlids, goldfish, bettas, angelfish, etc. At work, we are always
fixing customers' problems that Wal-Mart has caused. Thus the reason
that we joke about their fish section providing no competition. They
mess up people's tanks, which drives them to us to fix the problem
after they realize how badly they've been buggered. The extra
business is nice, but it's a pity that it has to come at the expense
of many lost fish and the deep-seated ignorance that my coworkers and
I have to (sometimes tediously) reverse. There is literally not a day
that goes by without hearing "But the people at Wal-Mart told me that
a few goldfish would go fine with a Betta in this (1 pint) container"
or the ever-classic "They told me I could put 12 fish in my 5-gallon
tank, (which were added all at once) so why am I having ammonia
problems?".

Is this not the equivalent of employing a blind person to drive a bus?
Of course it can't all be blamed on misdirected employees, a lot of
people want to be told only what they want to hear. (Arguments with
folks like this are interesting to say the least).

Happy Fish-keeping!

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

McEve wrote:


> I just thought the OP was getting a lot of pepper, when he might just be
> unknowing and a bit too enthusiastic...... Maybe he didn't mean "experiment"
> in a mean way, it's easy to see a lab with animals being subjected to cruel
> experiments

As a trained biologist I should point out that properly conducted animal
experiments are rarely "cruel". This is in the nature of
experimentation: any pain or suffering would affect the outcome of the
experiment in an uncontrolled way. Such results would be useles.

In my entire carreer I have never personally met a collegue who would
abuse animals, and I have heared of only one such case. The witness came
to me for advice and I asked her to inform authorities.

[McEve]

"Dr Engelbert Buxbaum" > wrote in message
...
> McEve wrote:
>
>
> > I just thought the OP was getting a lot of pepper, when he might just be
> > unknowing and a bit too enthusiastic...... Maybe he didn't mean
"experiment"
> > in a mean way, it's easy to see a lab with animals being subjected to
cruel
> > experiments
>
> As a trained biologist I should point out that properly conducted animal
> experiments are rarely "cruel". This is in the nature of
> experimentation: any pain or suffering would affect the outcome of the
> experiment in an uncontrolled way. Such results would be useles.
>
> In my entire carreer I have never personally met a collegue who would
> abuse animals, and I have heared of only one such case. The witness came
> to me for advice and I asked her to inform authorities.
>
>

Thank you for pointing that out. I know this, and didn't mean it to sound
"all experiments on animals are cruel experiments". It was merely meant as
aknowledging that this image can easily be conjured as it's what often is
put forward in media. I know this image is not representative.

I apologize if I have put biologists in a bad light, as this was not what I
intended. :)