Why would nitrite and or pH go up? What to do about algea & snails?

[Dave Peck]

Please be gentle if this is bad etiquette to cover so many issue in one
post, but it is a biosystem and may all be related, right?

Testing the parameters today I was very surprised that the nitrites were not
zero. The ammonia was not clear, but then again the water is very green,
and the ammonia test definitely was not yellow, if anything just a bit not
clear. The nitrite was just on the edge of purple, not even deep into the
first range past 0. I did a water change anyway because the kids were out
of the house and I was going to do it in 4 days anyway. I have noticed alot
more algae, the water is distinctly green and there are hairy kinds growing
for the first time, and more snails over the past 2 weeks. I am new to the
hobby and we've had the tank since just before Christmas. I thought the
longer days might contribute to the algae, but actually with the sun higher
in the sky, it is not that much extra sun. Also, every now and then when I
test the pH is up to 7.6 from usually 7.0 to 7.2. I add something I got
from my LFS during water change that lowers the pH from the tap.

My tank is a 37g tall with a Penguin 330 and a heater, and one light bulb,
about 2 feet long.

I have
4 tiger barbs (almost 8 inches of fish)
5 blue flame tetras (aka Columbian?) (about 10 inches of fish)
4 assorted cories (about 7 inches of fish)
1 red-tailed black shark (a fat 6 inches of fish)
1 scarletti shrimp (almost 3 inches of creature)
1 mystery snail (plum sized)
1 mystery snail (acorn sized, I used to think it was a small apple but now I
think it may be a nuisance snail)
x nuisance snails (used to only see them in the filters but now I see many
roaming the tank)

1 sword plant, always had some algae on it but now it is getting brown hairy
algae growing on it
2 good sized clumps of ananchris
1 spindly wisteria but it seems to have new growth
2 grassy kinds of things that has white fuzzy algae just starting to grow on
it
1 clump of a reddish green plant that has roundish leaves.


1. What caused the nitrite to go up?
2. Can I get clown loaches to eat the snails? Will it bother the bigger
snails, or just keep the little buggers under control?
3. What about CAEs or SAEs?
4. How to get the water back to clear. My wife isn't as happy with my
hobby now that it looks more like pond water than drinking water. I got a
free sample of something, but I can't use it because of the shrimp.

Thanks for your time,
Dave

[NetMax]

" Dave Peck" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> Please be gentle if this is bad etiquette to cover so many issue in one
> post, but it is a biosystem and may all be related, right?

Naturally, our bill will reflect the number of questions answered, plus a
convenience fee for having them all grouped together ;~)

> Testing the parameters today I was very surprised that the nitrites
were not
> zero. The ammonia was not clear, but then again the water is very
green,
> and the ammonia test definitely was not yellow, if anything just a bit
not
> clear. The nitrite was just on the edge of purple, not even deep into
the
> first range past 0. I did a water change anyway because the kids were
out
> of the house and I was going to do it in 4 days anyway. I have noticed
alot
> more algae, the water is distinctly green and there are hairy kinds
growing
> for the first time, and more snails over the past 2 weeks. I am new to
the
> hobby and we've had the tank since just before Christmas. I thought
the
> longer days might contribute to the algae, but actually with the sun
higher
> in the sky, it is not that much extra sun. Also, every now and then
when I
> test the pH is up to 7.6 from usually 7.0 to 7.2. I add something I
got
> from my LFS during water change that lowers the pH from the tap.

OK, to start, colours don't help us as different manufactures have
different colour charts. The good news is that a tinge of ammonia might
actually be a tinge of algae bloom (green water) messing up your
measurement. The bad news is any nitrites are indicative of a bacterial
imbalance which has and is occuring.

For your pH to increase means one of 2 things. It is returning to its
normal state (and is artificially low when it comes out of the tap due to
dissolved gases), or you have materials in the tank which are leeching
calcium carbonates into your water (limestone, coral, seashells,
aragonite, marble, tufa, dolomite etc etc).

I strongly suggest that you do NOT add pH altering chemicals until you
understand what is causing the change. A slow rise to 7.6 from 7.2 is
inconsequential in the majority of cases, however a fast chemical drop
back to 7.2 would be stressful in most cases.

> My tank is a 37g tall with a Penguin 330 and a heater, and one light
bulb,
> about 2 feet long.
>
> I have
> 4 tiger barbs (almost 8 inches of fish)
> 5 blue flame tetras (aka Columbian?) (about 10 inches of fish)
> 4 assorted cories (about 7 inches of fish)
> 1 red-tailed black shark (a fat 6 inches of fish)
> 1 scarletti shrimp (almost 3 inches of creature)
> 1 mystery snail (plum sized)
> 1 mystery snail (acorn sized, I used to think it was a small apple but
now I
> think it may be a nuisance snail)
> x nuisance snails (used to only see them in the filters but now I see
many
> roaming the tank)
>
> 1 sword plant, always had some algae on it but now it is getting brown
hairy
> algae growing on it
> 2 good sized clumps of ananchris
> 1 spindly wisteria but it seems to have new growth
> 2 grassy kinds of things that has white fuzzy algae just starting to
grow on
> it
> 1 clump of a reddish green plant that has roundish leaves.
>
>
> 1. What caused the nitrite to go up?

Filter material was changed or too well cleaned?

> 2. Can I get clown loaches to eat the snails? Will it bother the
bigger
> snails, or just keep the little buggers under control?

Depends on the loach. Some only eat snail eggs. Some only eat small
snails and harass larger snails. lots of ymmv.

> 3. What about CAEs or SAEs?

SAE will eat hair algae. Both fish can be problematic when larger, CAE
worst I think.

> 4. How to get the water back to clear. My wife isn't as happy with my
> hobby now that it looks more like pond water than drinking water. I
got a
> free sample of something, but I can't use it because of the shrimp.

Flocculants will temporarily remove the algae bloom, though there are
other considerations. I suggest you pop into my site for some light
reading. I cover water parameters, algae blooms, filter maintenance and
algae eaters in far better detail there, than I could do justice here
from memory.
--
www.NetMax.tk

> Thanks for your time,
> Dave
>
>

[Dick]

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:37:07 GMT, " Dave Peck"
> wrote:

>Please be gentle if this is bad etiquette to cover so many issue in one
>post, but it is a biosystem and may all be related, right?
>
>Testing the parameters today I was very surprised that the nitrites were not
>zero. The ammonia was not clear, but then again the water is very green,
>and the ammonia test definitely was not yellow, if anything just a bit not
>clear. The nitrite was just on the edge of purple, not even deep into the
>first range past 0. I did a water change anyway because the kids were out
>of the house and I was going to do it in 4 days anyway. I have noticed alot
>more algae, the water is distinctly green and there are hairy kinds growing
>for the first time, and more snails over the past 2 weeks. I am new to the
>hobby and we've had the tank since just before Christmas. I thought the
>longer days might contribute to the algae, but actually with the sun higher
>in the sky, it is not that much extra sun. Also, every now and then when I
>test the pH is up to 7.6 from usually 7.0 to 7.2. I add something I got
>from my LFS during water change that lowers the pH from the tap.
>
>My tank is a 37g tall with a Penguin 330 and a heater, and one light bulb,
>about 2 feet long.
>
>I have
>4 tiger barbs (almost 8 inches of fish)
>5 blue flame tetras (aka Columbian?) (about 10 inches of fish)
>4 assorted cories (about 7 inches of fish)
>1 red-tailed black shark (a fat 6 inches of fish)
>1 scarletti shrimp (almost 3 inches of creature)
>1 mystery snail (plum sized)
>1 mystery snail (acorn sized, I used to think it was a small apple but now I
>think it may be a nuisance snail)
>x nuisance snails (used to only see them in the filters but now I see many
>roaming the tank)
>
>1 sword plant, always had some algae on it but now it is getting brown hairy
>algae growing on it
>2 good sized clumps of ananchris
>1 spindly wisteria but it seems to have new growth
>2 grassy kinds of things that has white fuzzy algae just starting to grow on
>it
>1 clump of a reddish green plant that has roundish leaves.
>
>
>1. What caused the nitrite to go up?
>2. Can I get clown loaches to eat the snails? Will it bother the bigger
>snails, or just keep the little buggers under control?
>3. What about CAEs or SAEs?
>4. How to get the water back to clear. My wife isn't as happy with my
>hobby now that it looks more like pond water than drinking water. I got a
>free sample of something, but I can't use it because of the shrimp.
>
>Thanks for your time,
>Dave
>

No comment about nitrite, I have no experience with chemistry, but
have measured my tanks and tap water for pH: steady at 7.8. I made
the choice to not control my tanks with chemicals and rely on
"survival" to weed out what can't make it.

I have 20 Clown Loaches in 4 tanks, 3 in two 10 gallon tanks. I have
had them for about a year. They have grown, but slowed down about 6
months ago. I really like the Clowns, but they do enjoy snails, small
and large. Strangely, in my 75 gallon tank I have 6 Clowns, but 3
dime size snails (and growing) have survived. That is fine by me, but
strange.

I fought algae for a couple of months when I first set up my tank,
rather several months after setting up my 75 gallon tank. I am not
sure that anything I did was a silver bullet, I think it was the
combination.

I removed any plants and gravel with hair algae. The new plants are
all "low light" more suited to my lighting condition. Check the
"wattage" of your light. Divide the watts by tank size in gallons and
you will have a ratio. If the ratio is less than 2.5 watts per gallon
you have "low light" and need to get plants rated for low light. I
also put my tanks on timers and kept light down to 13 hours.

I cleaned ornaments with bleach. Became religious about weekly water
changes of 20%. Added more live bearers as I had noted them pecking
at young algae growth and added 3 Plecos and 6 Siamese Algae Eaters.
(I like the SAEs so much I bought more just because of their looks).

I became more cautious about over feeding.

Today the tank is clear of all but some small green spots on the glass
which I clean off maybe once a month.

Good luck, the battle can be won.

dick

[E.Otter]

The nitrite problem is basically your bio-filter can't keep up with the amount
of waste in the tank. If the bio-filter is working properly it should be
converting the ammonia to nitrites to nitrates fast enough so that ammonia and
nitrites never register in a test, only the nitrates do. In your case, that
ain't happening and that's bad, real bad.

You mention that you have lots and lots of unwanted snails in the tank and they
are adding to the bio-load. Unless you can get rid of them quickly you should
seriously consider adding another filter to your tank. You could add another
penguin filter (a mini or 170) onto the back of that tank. I have a 29g tank --
30 inches wide -- and have both a penguin 330 and 170 on it.

Personally, I've had algae blooms and in my case they are always caused by me
not adhering to my water change schedule. Nitrates build up + light = algae
bloom (green water). The cure is to do drastic 50% water changes several days
in a row until you have crystal clear water, then do it a couple more days just
to be sure. That gets rid of the green water. Normally I would turn off the
tank-light too, but you have live plants so that might kill them. I think that
the drastic water changes alone should be enough to remove the green water. Do
not buy chemicals to kill the algae. You have plants and shrimp and I've never
heard of a algae-killer chemical that didn't pose a serious risk to one or both.

You'll still have algae on your tank decorations and the only way to get rid of
that is to take them out of the tank and clean them. When I want to clean my
decorations I do it with hot tap water (my town's water is very fish friendly)
and I use filter floss as a scrubber. Filter-floss is guaranteed tank friendly
and you can usually buy some that's as rough and tough as the scrubbing pad on a
normal sponge. I don't use soap because it can make the fish sick or die. You
may want to rinse your tank decorations really well in dechlorinated water
before putting them back into the tank. You won't be able to get all the stuff
off your decorations no matter how hard you try but you can get the nastiest
stuff off.

I've never had snails in my tank so I have no recommendation there. I've read
that clown loaches will eat snails. I don't know if they could eat a snail the
size of a plumb. Then again, a snail that big should be easy to catch with a
net or by hand.

I can't answer the other question on algae eaters. Never owned one. I do know
that you should identify the algae you regularly have and match the algae eater
you buy to it. Then make sure whatever you buy is compatible with the other
fish in the tank. I doubt that an algae eater will be the silver bullet to your
algae problem though.

Hope that helps,
E.Otter