reality check: moving cross country

[Jess Van Tassell]

My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
with the chance that it will kill them.

I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
with ~16 fish.

1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare it
to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the tap...
have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
sell/give away the fish and start over out there?

2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
for what this container could be are welcome : )

2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of Homeland
Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.

3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.

4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.

5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.


Thanks for reading,
-Jess

--
To email me directly, replace nospam with net.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the
truth has a chance to get its pants on.
--Sir Winston Churchill

[NetMax]

"Jess Van Tassell" > wrote in message
...
> My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
> this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
> it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
> life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
> with the chance that it will kill them.

It is *easier* to leave them, but moves like this only require a bit of
planning, and advance preparation. What to do depends on your financial
& emotional investment in this tank.

> I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
> with ~16 fish.
>
> 1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare
it
> to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the
tap...
> have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
> different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
> just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
> other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
> sell/give away the fish and start over out there?

It would depend on the degree of difference and direction. I'm told that
moving to harder water is easier than moving to softer water. It's also
easier to temporarily harden water which is much softer.

> 2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
> for what this container could be are welcome : )

Depends on the size and quantity. Maybe something here will help you
decide http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/moving/moving.shtml

> 2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
> truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
> tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of
Homeland
> Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.

Sounds like a good plan.

> 3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
> the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.

With the filter running, this should work very well.

> 4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
> August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.
>
> 5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.

I think your bases are covered. Check out the main differences in water,
plan accordingly, keep the fish load low in the transport containers etc
etc. Personally, I always gave them away, as it gave me more time to
settle into my new place, and it was an opportunity to start with new
fish.
--
www.NetMax.tk

>
> Thanks for reading,
> -Jess
>
> --
> To email me directly, replace nospam with net.
>
> A lie gets halfway around the world before the
> truth has a chance to get its pants on.
> --Sir Winston Churchill

[Aidan Grey]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:11:52 -0400, Jess Van Tassell wrote:

>My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
>this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
>it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
>life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
>with the chance that it will kill them.
>
>I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
>with ~16 fish.
>
>1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare it
>to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the tap...
>have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
>different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
>just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
>other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
>sell/give away the fish and start over out there?
>
>2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
>for what this container could be are welcome : )
>
>2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
>truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
>tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of Homeland
>Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.
>
>3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
>the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.
>
>4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
>August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.
>
>5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.
>
>
>Thanks for reading,
>-Jess
>
>--
>To email me directly, replace nospam with net.
>
>A lie gets halfway around the world before the
>truth has a chance to get its pants on.
>--Sir Winston Churchill

I strongly recommend that you give your fish away, and buy new ones when
you
have arrived at your destination.

There are a lot of problems with transporting fish over such a long
distance. The
first is that you would want to tear down the tank a few days before the
move. A tank
cannot be moved unless it is empty. Anything loose in the tank will damage
it. The
moving company is almost certain to refuse to pack the the tank unless it is
empty
and dry. Also, the movers will not guarantee that the tank will be
transported "right side
up".

The second point is that transporting fish is very stressful for them.
They are not
able to understand what is going on, and are terrified. You can't feed them
while they
are stressed, so they will have to go a day or more without food.

At the end of this trip they get put into a tank that is essentially
restarting. There will be
some kind of spike in nitrogen products for a few days until the tank reaches
a new
equilibrium.

So, the fish have to spend several days in a cramped temporary tank. Then
they
are stressed by the trip, and then stressed again by any problems with the
tank. I
think you will loose at least some of them.

In addition, it is possible that you will not be allowed to board the
aircraft with live fish.
There seem to be a number of horror stories about people being hassled if
they are
carrying anything unusual.

Aidan Grey

[Dick]

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:03:28 -0400 (EDT), "Aidan Grey"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:11:52 -0400, Jess Van Tassell wrote:
>
>>My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
>>this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
>>it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
>>life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
>>with the chance that it will kill them.
>>
>>I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
>>with ~16 fish.
>>
>>1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare it
>>to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the tap...
>>have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
>>different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
>>just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
>>other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
>>sell/give away the fish and start over out there?
>>
>>2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
>>for what this container could be are welcome : )
>>
>>2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
>>truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
>>tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of Homeland
>>Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.
>>
>>3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
>>the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.
>>
>>4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
>>August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.
>>
>>5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.
>>
>>
>>Thanks for reading,
>>-Jess
>>
>>--
>>To email me directly, replace nospam with net.
>>
>>A lie gets halfway around the world before the
>>truth has a chance to get its pants on.
>>--Sir Winston Churchill
>
> I strongly recommend that you give your fish away, and buy new ones when
>you
>have arrived at your destination.
>
> There are a lot of problems with transporting fish over such a long
>distance. The
>first is that you would want to tear down the tank a few days before the
>move. A tank
>cannot be moved unless it is empty. Anything loose in the tank will damage
>it. The
>moving company is almost certain to refuse to pack the the tank unless it is
>empty
>and dry. Also, the movers will not guarantee that the tank will be
>transported "right side
>up".
>
> The second point is that transporting fish is very stressful for them.
>They are not
>able to understand what is going on, and are terrified. You can't feed them
>while they
>are stressed, so they will have to go a day or more without food.
>
> At the end of this trip they get put into a tank that is essentially
>restarting. There will be
>some kind of spike in nitrogen products for a few days until the tank reaches
>a new
>equilibrium.
>
> So, the fish have to spend several days in a cramped temporary tank. Then
>they
>are stressed by the trip, and then stressed again by any problems with the
>tank. I
>think you will loose at least some of them.
>
> In addition, it is possible that you will not be allowed to board the
>aircraft with live fish.
>There seem to be a number of horror stories about people being hassled if
>they are
>carrying anything unusual.
>
>Aidan Grey
>
>
>
It is a long move and will take several days. However, I don't see
why the fish would care about what causes the water motion. Most of
the 130 fish I own were delivered by post. I buy everything via the
internet. There is no personal concern as you are giving to your
fish.

I would be more concerned about having your tank ready when the fish
arrive. Have you considered buying a new tank and setting it up in
advance? Bring any special plants (expensive), they travel well, but
may not like being uprooted. Getting the tank cycled would be my main
consideration.

I hope you will let us know how the move turns out? Why don't you and
your boy friend get married? You sound very compatible to worry about
fish while moving. So many other things to arrange and worry about.
Sounds promising for your futures.

dick

[Lady Samsara]

Dick > wrote in message >...
> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:03:28 -0400 (EDT), "Aidan Grey"
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:11:52 -0400, Jess Van Tassell wrote:
> >
> >>My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
> >>this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
> >>it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
> >>life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
> >>with the chance that it will kill them.
> >>
> >>I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
> >>with ~16 fish.
> >>
> >>1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare it
> >>to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the tap...
> >>have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
> >>different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
> >>just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
> >>other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
> >>sell/give away the fish and start over out there?
> >>
> >>2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
> >>for what this container could be are welcome : )
> >>
> >>2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
> >>truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
> >>tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of Homeland
> >>Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.
> >>
> >>3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
> >>the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.
> >>
> >>4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
> >>August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.
> >>
> >>5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.
> >>
> >>
> >>Thanks for reading,
> >>-Jess
> >>
> >>--
> >>To email me directly, replace nospam with net.
> >>
> >>A lie gets halfway around the world before the
> >>truth has a chance to get its pants on.
> >>--Sir Winston Churchill
> >
> > I strongly recommend that you give your fish away, and buy new ones when
> >you
> >have arrived at your destination.
> >
> > There are a lot of problems with transporting fish over such a long
> >distance. The
> >first is that you would want to tear down the tank a few days before the
> >move. A tank
> >cannot be moved unless it is empty. Anything loose in the tank will damage
> >it. The
> >moving company is almost certain to refuse to pack the the tank unless it is
> >empty
> >and dry. Also, the movers will not guarantee that the tank will be
> >transported "right side
> >up".
> >
> > The second point is that transporting fish is very stressful for them.
> >They are not
> >able to understand what is going on, and are terrified. You can't feed them
> >while they
> >are stressed, so they will have to go a day or more without food.
> >
> > At the end of this trip they get put into a tank that is essentially
> >restarting. There will be
> >some kind of spike in nitrogen products for a few days until the tank reaches
> >a new
> >equilibrium.
> >
> > So, the fish have to spend several days in a cramped temporary tank. Then
> >they
> >are stressed by the trip, and then stressed again by any problems with the
> >tank. I
> >think you will loose at least some of them.
> >
> > In addition, it is possible that you will not be allowed to board the
> >aircraft with live fish.
> >There seem to be a number of horror stories about people being hassled if
> >they are
> >carrying anything unusual.
> >
> >Aidan Grey
> >
> >
> >
> It is a long move and will take several days. However, I don't see
> why the fish would care about what causes the water motion. Most of
> the 130 fish I own were delivered by post. I buy everything via the
> internet. There is no personal concern as you are giving to your
> fish.
>
> I would be more concerned about having your tank ready when the fish
> arrive. Have you considered buying a new tank and setting it up in
> advance? Bring any special plants (expensive), they travel well, but
> may not like being uprooted. Getting the tank cycled would be my main
> consideration.
>
> I hope you will let us know how the move turns out? Why don't you and
> your boy friend get married? You sound very compatible to worry about
> fish while moving. So many other things to arrange and worry about.
> Sounds promising for your futures.
>
> dick

Hello Jess...The experts here have responded to your questions and I
really can't add anything on that subject. But, on a more personal
note, I recently drove 1,300 miles with 2 Betta fish and 3 snails
(along with my dog and cat). The consensus was that I should give
them away as well, and I did find homes for 4 fish with very good
friends. I was attached to the rest and didn't want to leave them
behind and risk them finding a good home. All made it fine, although
I did lose one fish 2 weeks later due to (what I think was) gill
disease. That was very hard. My biowheel and other filter material
made it intact and I did not have any mini-cycle to speak of, though I
did monitor water very carefully at the beginning. I brought along
plenty of old water and acclimated them slowly to the new. Over a
month and all are fine...the older Betta has done suprisingly well, I
expected him to be the one to have problems. It can be done.

I wish you the best of luck on your move...Please let us know how
things go for you!

[Dick]

On 5 Jul 2004 12:17:36 -0700, (Lady Samsara)
wrote:

>Dick > wrote in message >...
>> On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:03:28 -0400 (EDT), "Aidan Grey"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 16:11:52 -0400, Jess Van Tassell wrote:
>> >
>> >>My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
>> >>this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
>> >>it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
>> >>life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
>> >>with the chance that it will kill them.
>> >>
>> >>I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
>> >>with ~16 fish.
>> >>
>> >>1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare it
>> >>to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the tap...
>> >>have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
>> >>different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
>> >>just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
>> >>other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
>> >>sell/give away the fish and start over out there?
>> >>
>> >>2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
>> >>for what this container could be are welcome : )
>> >>
>> >>2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
>> >>truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
>> >>tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of Homeland
>> >>Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.
>> >>
>> >>3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
>> >>the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.
>> >>
>> >>4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
>> >>August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.
>> >>
>> >>5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Thanks for reading,
>> >>-Jess
>> >>
>> >>--
>> >>To email me directly, replace nospam with net.
>> >>
>> >>A lie gets halfway around the world before the
>> >>truth has a chance to get its pants on.
>> >>--Sir Winston Churchill
>> >
>> > I strongly recommend that you give your fish away, and buy new ones when
>> >you
>> >have arrived at your destination.
>> >
>> > There are a lot of problems with transporting fish over such a long
>> >distance. The
>> >first is that you would want to tear down the tank a few days before the
>> >move. A tank
>> >cannot be moved unless it is empty. Anything loose in the tank will damage
>> >it. The
>> >moving company is almost certain to refuse to pack the the tank unless it is
>> >empty
>> >and dry. Also, the movers will not guarantee that the tank will be
>> >transported "right side
>> >up".
>> >
>> > The second point is that transporting fish is very stressful for them.
>> >They are not
>> >able to understand what is going on, and are terrified. You can't feed them
>> >while they
>> >are stressed, so they will have to go a day or more without food.
>> >
>> > At the end of this trip they get put into a tank that is essentially
>> >restarting. There will be
>> >some kind of spike in nitrogen products for a few days until the tank reaches
>> >a new
>> >equilibrium.
>> >
>> > So, the fish have to spend several days in a cramped temporary tank. Then
>> >they
>> >are stressed by the trip, and then stressed again by any problems with the
>> >tank. I
>> >think you will loose at least some of them.
>> >
>> > In addition, it is possible that you will not be allowed to board the
>> >aircraft with live fish.
>> >There seem to be a number of horror stories about people being hassled if
>> >they are
>> >carrying anything unusual.
>> >
>> >Aidan Grey
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> It is a long move and will take several days. However, I don't see
>> why the fish would care about what causes the water motion. Most of
>> the 130 fish I own were delivered by post. I buy everything via the
>> internet. There is no personal concern as you are giving to your
>> fish.
>>
>> I would be more concerned about having your tank ready when the fish
>> arrive. Have you considered buying a new tank and setting it up in
>> advance? Bring any special plants (expensive), they travel well, but
>> may not like being uprooted. Getting the tank cycled would be my main
>> consideration.
>>
>> I hope you will let us know how the move turns out? Why don't you and
>> your boy friend get married? You sound very compatible to worry about
>> fish while moving. So many other things to arrange and worry about.
>> Sounds promising for your futures.
>>
>> dick
>
>Hello Jess...The experts here have responded to your questions and I
>really can't add anything on that subject. But, on a more personal
>note, I recently drove 1,300 miles with 2 Betta fish and 3 snails
>(along with my dog and cat). The consensus was that I should give
>them away as well, and I did find homes for 4 fish with very good
>friends. I was attached to the rest and didn't want to leave them
>behind and risk them finding a good home. All made it fine, although
>I did lose one fish 2 weeks later due to (what I think was) gill
>disease. That was very hard. My biowheel and other filter material
>made it intact and I did not have any mini-cycle to speak of, though I
>did monitor water very carefully at the beginning. I brought along
>plenty of old water and acclimated them slowly to the new. Over a
>month and all are fine...the older Betta has done suprisingly well, I
>expected him to be the one to have problems. It can be done.
>
>I wish you the best of luck on your move...Please let us know how
>things go for you!


After my first reply I recalled an experience which supports the
notion that fish can be moved safely. As I have said I get all my
fish through the internet. One time my shipment was mixed with that
to another customer; 20 Lemon Chiclids as I recall. I called the
fish store, they arranged for a pickup of the fish. I later got a
call. The Chiclids had reached their destination and were fine. The
store had stock on hand for my fish so I received a replacement
shipment overnight, no story in that, but the Lemon Chiclids sure did
a lot of traveling!

dick

[Jess Van Tassell]

In article >,
"NetMax" > wrote:

> "Jess Van Tassell" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My boyfriend and I are moving from New York to California at the end of
> > this month. We are very attached to our fish, but I'm wondering now if
> > it's easier to give them up and know they'll have a chance at a good
> > life with new owners, or to be selfish and try to bring them with us,
> > with the chance that it will kill them.
>
> It is *easier* to leave them, but moves like this only require a bit of
> planning, and advance preparation. What to do depends on your financial
> & emotional investment in this tank.
>
> > I'm looking for feedback on my plan. This is a 30g tank I'm speaking of
> > with ~16 fish.
> >
> > 1) Get water quality report from the city we're moving to and compare
> it
> > to our current water. As it is, I fill the tank directly from the
> tap...
> > have for three years, with city water as well as well water from very
> > different water tables. If the water is significantly different, not
> > just chlorine but hardness, ph, flourine addition (and all kinds of
> > other things I can't even imagine) should I kill this entire plan and
> > sell/give away the fish and start over out there?
>
> It would depend on the degree of difference and direction. I'm told that
> moving to harder water is easier than moving to softer water. It's also
> easier to temporarily harden water which is much softer.
>
> > 2) Move the fish into a temporary container with a filter. Suggestions
> > for what this container could be are welcome : )
>
> Depends on the size and quantity. Maybe something here will help you
> decide http://www.2cah.com/netmax/basics/moving/moving.shtml
>
> > 2) Pack the tank on the moving van on the 26th. Fly out to meet the
> > truck with all the plants and a couple of gallons of water from the
> > tank, as well as a dirty filter sponge. Explain to the Dept. of
> Homeland
> > Security a few times why I am transporting water across the US.
>
> Sounds like a good plan.
>
> > 3) Set up the tank on arrival, feed the bacteria I hopefully brought on
> > the plants and in the water and on the sponge with ammonia.
>
> With the filter running, this should work very well.
>
> > 4) Boyfriend will bring the fish with him as carry-on on the 4th of
> > August, or if the airline doesn't permit this, ship them overnight.
> >
> > 5) Hope we didn't make a mistake.
>
> I think your bases are covered. Check out the main differences in water,
> plan accordingly, keep the fish load low in the transport containers etc
> etc. Personally, I always gave them away, as it gave me more time to
> settle into my new place, and it was an opportunity to start with new
> fish.

Thank you for all your suggestions! I learned that the moving company
will get our stuff to our new place (including the tank) in five to
fifteen days!!!! We don't have a big enough time window to accomodate a
late moving truck.

Thank you for your encouragement, NetMax and Lady Samsara. I appreciate
your skepticism Aidan.

I'm hoping a friend will adopt the tank and inhabitants.

blue skies, and happy water changes,
-Jess

--
To email me directly, replace nospam with net.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the
truth has a chance to get its pants on.
--Sir Winston Churchill