is this a bad way to treat fish?

[sophie]

this afternoon we visited the new branch of an aquatics shop with a good
reputation (the previous and before this only branch certainly had,
anyway) while we were at the garden centre. The pond fish all looked
healthy and well filtered etc, and the tropical tanks *looked* fine, but
I was really concerned about two things:

1) all the goldfish for aquariums rather than ponds were almost entirely
torpid; fancies sitting on the bottom motionless, the others just
hanging there. some of these were good sized fish, too. "busy weekend
afternoon" is no excuse for poor water quality, is it?

2) male bettas were being kept in tanks with other male bettas on the
side of a glass divider; some of them were obviously worn out with
posturing at each other - resting nose down on the bottom in the corner,
then coming back up to resume the displaying etc once they were a little
rested. Is this a decent way to treat bettas? it struck me as being
horrible. I don't know much about tropicals and still less about bettas,
but it made me very uneasy.

I'm inclined to think these would be good reasons to avoid the shop - am
I right, or am I paranoid?
--
sophie

[TYNK 7]

>Subject: is this a bad way to treat fish?
>From: sophie
>Date: 7/11/2004 5:00 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>this afternoon we visited the new branch of an aquatics shop with a good
>reputation (the previous and before this only branch certainly had,
>anyway) while we were at the garden centre. The pond fish all looked
>healthy and well filtered etc, and the tropical tanks *looked* fine, but
>I was really concerned about two things:
>
>1) all the goldfish for aquariums rather than ponds were almost entirely
>torpid; fancies sitting on the bottom motionless, the others just
>hanging there. some of these were good sized fish, too. "busy weekend
>afternoon" is no excuse for poor water quality, is it?
>
>2) male bettas were being kept in tanks with other male bettas on the
>side of a glass divider; some of them were obviously worn out with
>posturing at each other - resting nose down on the bottom in the corner,
>then coming back up to resume the displaying etc once they were a little
>rested. Is this a decent way to treat bettas? it struck me as being
>horrible. I don't know much about tropicals and still less about bettas,
>but it made me very uneasy.
>
>I'm inclined to think these would be good reasons to avoid the shop - am
>I right, or am I paranoid?
>--
>sophie
>

The Goldies don't sound like they're too well....possibly and the most common
culprit, would be poor water quality.

As for male Bettas....actually be thankful they are in tanks and not tiny cups.
It's actually good exercise for male Bettas to have a "flare buddy". many
become quite depressed without one.
A Betta won't ware it's self out flaring...well maybe one in a gazillion
*might*, but after a few days...they won't even notice each other anymore.
I have to switch my boys around so they don't become bored with their flare
buddy.

[sophie]

In message >, TYNK 7
> writes
>>Subject: is this a bad way to treat fish?
>>From: sophie
>>Date: 7/11/2004 5:00 PM Central Daylight Time
>>Message-id: >
>>
>>this afternoon we visited the new branch of an aquatics shop with a good
>>reputation (the previous and before this only branch certainly had,
>>anyway) while we were at the garden centre. The pond fish all looked
>>healthy and well filtered etc, and the tropical tanks *looked* fine, but
>>I was really concerned about two things:
>>
>>1) all the goldfish for aquariums rather than ponds were almost entirely
>>torpid; fancies sitting on the bottom motionless, the others just
>>hanging there. some of these were good sized fish, too. "busy weekend
>>afternoon" is no excuse for poor water quality, is it?
>>
>>2) male bettas were being kept in tanks with other male bettas on the
>>side of a glass divider; some of them were obviously worn out with
>>posturing at each other - resting nose down on the bottom in the corner,
>>then coming back up to resume the displaying etc once they were a little
>>rested. Is this a decent way to treat bettas? it struck me as being
>>horrible. I don't know much about tropicals and still less about bettas,
>>but it made me very uneasy.
>>
>>I'm inclined to think these would be good reasons to avoid the shop - am
>>I right, or am I paranoid?
>>--
>>sophie
>>
>
>The Goldies don't sound like they're too well....possibly and the most common
>culprit, would be poor water quality.
>
>As for male Bettas....actually be thankful they are in tanks and not tiny cups.
>It's actually good exercise for male Bettas to have a "flare buddy". many
>become quite depressed without one.
>A Betta won't ware it's self out flaring...well maybe one in a gazillion
>*might*, but after a few days...they won't even notice each other anymore.
>I have to switch my boys around so they don't become bored with their flare
>buddy.

I'm happy about the bettas, anyway! they were very, very sweet. I have a
spare tank and if I can find somewhere to put it I would love to keep
some tropicals. bettas look lovely - I must find out more about them.
but not even if they're within my fishkeeping abilities I won't get them
from that shop, the goldfish made me cross.

the female bettas are nice too, in a more minimalist kind of way.

hmmmmm.
--
sophie

[IDzine01]

> As for male Bettas....actually be thankful they are in tanks and not tiny >cups.
> It's actually good exercise for male Bettas to have a "flare buddy". many
> become quite depressed without one.
> A Betta won't ware it's self out flaring...well maybe one in a gazillion
> *might*, but after a few days...they won't even notice each other anymore.
> I have to switch my boys around so they don't become bored with their flare
> buddy.

In the past, TYNK and I have agreed to respectfully disagree on the
topic of flare buddies. So, just to make sure the topic is covered
from both sides I'll toss in my two cents. I subscribe to notion that
male bettas should not be housed along with other males. Instincts
tell them to flare and nip at each other in attempt to defend their
territory. The term "flare buddy" wrongly implies that the betta
enjoys sharing the space with another betta. Bettas don't have friends
they only understand that their space has been invaded and they must
flare up in an attempt to scare the other male away. Flaring, on
occasion, toward a reflection or adjoining betta is fine so long as
they are...

1. healthy and
2. able to get away and hide when either betta is frightened.

Sick or stressed bettas, like those in fish store conditions, can
become more stressed by being put into defensive mode constantly when
faced with other aggressive males. This stress can cause the weakening
of their immune system and eventually open them up to illness. (This
is why we don't force our bettas to flare when they are ill. It only
adds extra stress) When kept in the same tank without a divider the
situation becomes more grave. Males may nip at each others fins
causing surface ulcers and bacterial infections.

I couldn't tell in your post if you were saying they were on the same
side of a divider or on opposite sides. For their sake, I hope they
were on opposite sides of a divider. I agree with TYNK, that it's a
good thing to hear they weren't kept in tiny cups like so many other
shelved bettas.

If you're planning on keeping bettas in a divided tank, it helps to
place live or silk plants along the divider so the bettas can see
their neighbor only on occasion. Also, providing plenty of hidey-holes
and caves will give them a stronger sense of security.

I commend your shopping methods. I tend to look a fish store over,
determin if they meet my standards of care and then decide to buy from
them or not.

[Geezer From The Freezer]

Sophie,

Why don't you mention something to them. If they know you are unhappy they may
realise they are potentially losing customers and *might* do something
about it.

[sophie]

In message >, Geezer From The Freezer
> writes
>Sophie,
>
>Why don't you mention something to them. If they know you are unhappy they may
>realise they are potentially losing customers and *might* do something
>about it.

not a bad idea. The shop was stuffed with people and kids at the time,
and I didn't want to say anything that would annoy them and get ignored
by the sales staff, but a polite letter wouldn't be a problem, I don't
think.

--
sophie

[nuchumYussel]

Just out of curiosity, what store is this that you speak of?

Evan Davis