conversation piece?

[johnhuddleston]

http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm

--

[NetMax]

"johnhuddleston" > wrote in message
...
> http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm


'conversation piece' might be an understatement ;~). Very interesting
article. It's unfortunate that ARG has sponsors which have products
which can be used as substitutes for some of the functions traditionally
associated with salt. I'm looking forward to hearing input from others,
especially regarding the article's conversions of mg/l to teaspoons per
gallon. Something looked odd there to me, but I'm always a sceptic.
--
www.NetMax.tk

[The Outcaste]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:30:32 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

>"johnhuddleston" > wrote in message
...
>> http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm
>
>
>'conversation piece' might be an understatement ;~). Very interesting
>article. It's unfortunate that ARG has sponsors which have products
>which can be used as substitutes for some of the functions traditionally
>associated with salt. I'm looking forward to hearing input from others,
>especially regarding the article's conversions of mg/l to teaspoons per
>gallon. Something looked odd there to me, but I'm always a sceptic.
Here's their mistake I think. They say "Typically, nitrite becomes
toxic at about 0.1 mg/L" .1 mg/liter is .1 ppm. IIRC, nitrate can
cause stress at .5 ppm, and is lethal over time at 10-20 ppm (i.e.,
10-20 mg/liter), so their levels for salt as regards nitrite poisoning
are off by a factor of 100. So 1 tsp of salt would treat 2.94 gallons
of water, not 294.

I can't comment on the salt levels for the 30 minute dip as I have not
read the book quoted

The rest of the math seems accurate -- biggest factor will be deciding
on the weight of a tablespoon of salt. Here's what I came up with:

Conversions done using Google Calculator

One cup of Table salt is 10.2 oz (per Morton Salt Co {see email from
Morton on this page: http://www.cbbqa.com/articles/Salt/SaltStory.html
})
Morton Kosher Salt weighs 8.1 oz/cup

1 US cup = 48 US teaspoons, so:
1 teaspoon table salt weighs 0.2125 oz
0.2125 ounces = 6,024.27366 milligrams
This jives with my box of salt that says 1 tsp = 6 g

1 teaspoon Kosher salt weighs 0.16875 oz
0.16875 oz = 4,783.98203 milligrams

The articles weight of 5500 mg/teaspoon is roughly in the middle of
this range

1 (mg / gal) = 0.264172051 mg / liter

so:
1 teaspoon table salt per gallon equals 6024.27366 mg.
So this works out to 1 tsp/gal = 1591.44473 mg / liter

1 teaspoon Kosher salt per gallon equals 4783.98203 mg/gal, or
1263.79435 mg / liter

Calculating the weight of 1 teaspoon of solid salt by using it's
density from the above web site (note that they actually list specific
gravity, which is density / 1000), we get the following

1 US teaspoon = 4.92892161 ml
Density 2165 mg / cc (kg/m^3 = mg/cc)
so by density, 1 teaspoon of solid salt would weigh:
4.92892161 ml * 2165 mg / cc = 10.6711153 g

As table or kosher salt is not a solid block, it's weight would be
considerably less. The same web site listed above shows the Bulk
Density of salt to be 1154 mg / cc -- I'm assuming this is an average
for granulated salt. Using this number we get:
(4.92892161 ml) * 1154 (kg / (m^3)) = 5.68797554 grams -- roughly the
same as the article's 5.5 g/tsp

[NetMax]

"The Outcaste" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:30:32 -0400, "NetMax"
> > bubbled forth the following:
>
> >"johnhuddleston" > wrote in
message
> ...
> >> http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Salt.htm
> >
> >
> >'conversation piece' might be an understatement ;~). Very interesting
> >article. It's unfortunate that ARG has sponsors which have products
> >which can be used as substitutes for some of the functions
traditionally
> >associated with salt. I'm looking forward to hearing input from
others,
> >especially regarding the article's conversions of mg/l to teaspoons
per
> >gallon. Something looked odd there to me, but I'm always a sceptic.

> Here's their mistake I think. They say "Typically, nitrite becomes
> toxic at about 0.1 mg/L" .1 mg/liter is .1 ppm. IIRC, nitrate can
> cause stress at .5 ppm, and is lethal over time at 10-20 ppm (i.e.,
> 10-20 mg/liter), so their levels for salt as regards nitrite poisoning
> are off by a factor of 100. So 1 tsp of salt would treat 2.94 gallons
> of water, not 294.

I'm not sure I can make your connection between the NO2 and NO3
comparison, but my gut feel is to I agree that their math was off. You
should contact them. They are at j f k @ c o m p u s e r v e . c o m

> The rest of the math seems accurate -- biggest factor will be deciding
> on the weight of a tablespoon of salt. Here's what I came up with:

<snipped the rest of Outcaste's detailed response>
...and filed the post into my 'keepers' file for future reference.

Thanks Outcaste !
--
www.NetMax.tk

[The Outcaste]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:14:56 -0400, "NetMax"
> bubbled forth the following:

>> Here's their mistake I think. They say "Typically, nitrite becomes
>> toxic at about 0.1 mg/L" .1 mg/liter is .1 ppm. IIRC, nitrate can
>> cause stress at .5 ppm, and is lethal over time at 10-20 ppm (i.e.,
>> 10-20 mg/liter), so their levels for salt as regards nitrite poisoning
>> are off by a factor of 100. So 1 tsp of salt would treat 2.94 gallons
>> of water, not 294.
Just noticed a typo in the above paragraph, I meant it to read as
follows:
"IIRC, nitrite can cause stress at .5 ppm"
didn't mean to bring nitrate into the discussion, only nitrite. Wasn't
trying to make a connection. Sure would be nice (and less confusing)
if they weren't spelled so similarly. Sorry for any confusion.

I was pointing out their statement that "nitrite becomes toxic at
about 0.1 mg/L". To me, toxic means lethal, at least over time,
whereas a quick google finds several sites that say it is lethal over
time at 10-20 mg/L, a 100-200 times higher level. At 0.5 mg/L, it
"can" cause stress -- so a 0.1 mg/L level might not even cause stress,
let alone be considered toxic.

Checking my TetraTest NO2 leaflet, it states "Most species of
freshwater fish can tolerate a nitrite content of 1.6 mg per liter",
and also says "Ideally, nitrite levels should be kept below 0.8 mg/L".
While I think these levels are too high to be considered ideal, it
does imply that 0.1 mg/L would not be considered toxic.
>
>I'm not sure I can make your connection between the NO2 and NO3
>comparison, but my gut feel is to I agree that their math was off. You
>should contact them. They are at j f k @ c o m p u s e r v e . c o m
>
>> The rest of the math seems accurate -- biggest factor will be deciding
>> on the weight of a tablespoon of salt. Here's what I came up with:
>
><snipped the rest of Outcaste's detailed response>
>..and filed the post into my 'keepers' file for future reference.
>
>Thanks Outcaste !
>--
>www.NetMax.tk
>