Tank: Time to strip it down and clean it out questions

[Sam]

I am a newbie but advancing.

After Nine months of 23 fish in a 50 gallon tank, and about 7 assorted
plants, it is time to give it a good strip down and clean out. I had a
small UGF in the tank but it did not cover the entire bottom, and I always
do weekly water changes and gravel vacs. But I still have a large amount
of muck that needs to be cleaned out.

1. I purchased a new UGF plate that covers my tank bottom completely, and it
has 3 locations for "pillar" tubing. I also purchased a reverse flow
powerhead to add to it. The only reverse flow powerhead that I could find at
my LFS was rated at 170GPH. My current forward flow powerhead is rated at
300 GPH. As my primary filter I have a biowheel rated for a 60 gallon tank.
a. Should I close off two of the pillar plugs? <<< Cheap cost and plugs will
be covered over by the substrate.
b. Or add a bubble column pillar? <<< Cheap cost (I have one installed now
on my old UGF.), some added noise, and less visual appeal.
c. OR add a second reverse flow powerhead at the far end? <<<about $40.00,
lots more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
d. OR add my current forward flow powerhead at the far end? <<<Cheap cost,
and may cause water not to cycle thru substrate and bypass the UGF plate,
also more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
So in other words the I would like less hardware in the tank and also lower
the muck rating as well. But I need to find a happy median for the two.
What would you do?

2. When I first setup the tank, I used Bio-Spira bacteria to cycle, and my
ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been excellent at every weekly check.
But I inquired about Bio-Spira again at my LFS and been told it's on
backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle perhaps I
would retain about 15 gallons of tank water (3 brand new 5-gallon buckets
from Home Depot), keep the same plants, do not scrub the decorative rocks,
re-use the old filter media without rinsing it out for an extended period,
filter the substrate through an old pillow case, and add a dose of
Stress-Zyme. Should all these measures be good enough not to throw me out
of cycle too much?

I would welcome any suggestions.
--

This message was written on 100% recycled spam.

SAM >>

[Justin Boucher]

I have my powerheads pulling their intake through the UGF uprights which in
turn will force the water through the substrate, so I don't know what you
mean in your point "d" about water bypassing the UGF.

I had a friend in college who used a biowheel and a powerhead in is 29.
Both of which had their intake connected to the uprights from the UGF (one
at each end). It worked amazingly well and cleared up his tanks real fast!
You may want to consider that as an option. I know the biowheel after the
UGF is rather redundant, but one advantage would be a quick and easy way to
cycle through other filter media types like activated charcoal. Just use
the biowheel compartment.

Justin

"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> I am a newbie but advancing.
>
> After Nine months of 23 fish in a 50 gallon tank, and about 7 assorted
> plants, it is time to give it a good strip down and clean out. I had a
> small UGF in the tank but it did not cover the entire bottom, and I always
> do weekly water changes and gravel vacs. But I still have a large amount
> of muck that needs to be cleaned out.
>
> 1. I purchased a new UGF plate that covers my tank bottom completely, and
it
> has 3 locations for "pillar" tubing. I also purchased a reverse flow
> powerhead to add to it. The only reverse flow powerhead that I could find
at
> my LFS was rated at 170GPH. My current forward flow powerhead is rated at
> 300 GPH. As my primary filter I have a biowheel rated for a 60 gallon
tank.
> a. Should I close off two of the pillar plugs? <<< Cheap cost and plugs
will
> be covered over by the substrate.
> b. Or add a bubble column pillar? <<< Cheap cost (I have one installed now
> on my old UGF.), some added noise, and less visual appeal.
> c. OR add a second reverse flow powerhead at the far end? <<<about
$40.00,
> lots more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> d. OR add my current forward flow powerhead at the far end? <<<Cheap cost,
> and may cause water not to cycle thru substrate and bypass the UGF plate,
> also more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> So in other words the I would like less hardware in the tank and also
lower
> the muck rating as well. But I need to find a happy median for the two.
> What would you do?
>
> 2. When I first setup the tank, I used Bio-Spira bacteria to cycle, and
my
> ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been excellent at every weekly check.
> But I inquired about Bio-Spira again at my LFS and been told it's on
> backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle perhaps I
> would retain about 15 gallons of tank water (3 brand new 5-gallon buckets
> from Home Depot), keep the same plants, do not scrub the decorative rocks,
> re-use the old filter media without rinsing it out for an extended period,
> filter the substrate through an old pillow case, and add a dose of
> Stress-Zyme. Should all these measures be good enough not to throw me out
> of cycle too much?
>
> I would welcome any suggestions.
> --
>
> This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
>
> SAM >>
>
>

[Sam]

What I was meaning about point D was:
A forward flow head on one end of the UGF and a reverse flow head on the
other end of the UGF. I was thinking this may not be a good idea because
the water would form a current from one end of the UGF and over to other
end. Thus the water current would be traveling under the plates, being
forced down from the output of one pump, and up into the input of the other
pump, with little or no pressure to force it thru the slits.

As for the story of your friend. I could connect my biowheel filter to the
UGF riser, and my other forward powerhead to the other end of the UGF. That
is a good hardware issue idea. So I would not need the Reverse flow
powerhead? But one of the reasons I got the reverse flow was to keep some
of them muck from getting trapped in the substrate. But if i use my reverse
flow head and not the forward flow I may be back to the current issue
mentioned above. So I am not sure what to do here.

Does anyone else have any ideas? I am considering any ideas at this point.

This message was written on 100% recycled spam.

SAM >>
"Justin Boucher" > wrote in message
...
> I have my powerheads pulling their intake through the UGF uprights which
in
> turn will force the water through the substrate, so I don't know what you
> mean in your point "d" about water bypassing the UGF.
>
> I had a friend in college who used a biowheel and a powerhead in is 29.
> Both of which had their intake connected to the uprights from the UGF (one
> at each end). It worked amazingly well and cleared up his tanks real
fast!
> You may want to consider that as an option. I know the biowheel after the
> UGF is rather redundant, but one advantage would be a quick and easy way
to
> cycle through other filter media types like activated charcoal. Just use
> the biowheel compartment.
>
> Justin
>
> "Sam" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I am a newbie but advancing.
> >
> > After Nine months of 23 fish in a 50 gallon tank, and about 7 assorted
> > plants, it is time to give it a good strip down and clean out. I had a
> > small UGF in the tank but it did not cover the entire bottom, and I
always
> > do weekly water changes and gravel vacs. But I still have a large
amount
> > of muck that needs to be cleaned out.
> >
> > 1. I purchased a new UGF plate that covers my tank bottom completely,
and
> it
> > has 3 locations for "pillar" tubing. I also purchased a reverse flow
> > powerhead to add to it. The only reverse flow powerhead that I could
find
> at
> > my LFS was rated at 170GPH. My current forward flow powerhead is rated
at
> > 300 GPH. As my primary filter I have a biowheel rated for a 60 gallon
> tank.
> > a. Should I close off two of the pillar plugs? <<< Cheap cost and plugs
> will
> > be covered over by the substrate.
> > b. Or add a bubble column pillar? <<< Cheap cost (I have one installed
now
> > on my old UGF.), some added noise, and less visual appeal.
> > c. OR add a second reverse flow powerhead at the far end? <<<about
> $40.00,
> > lots more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> > d. OR add my current forward flow powerhead at the far end? <<<Cheap
cost,
> > and may cause water not to cycle thru substrate and bypass the UGF
plate,
> > also more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> > So in other words the I would like less hardware in the tank and also
> lower
> > the muck rating as well. But I need to find a happy median for the two.
> > What would you do?
> >
> > 2. When I first setup the tank, I used Bio-Spira bacteria to cycle, and
> my
> > ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been excellent at every weekly
check.
> > But I inquired about Bio-Spira again at my LFS and been told it's on
> > backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle perhaps
I
> > would retain about 15 gallons of tank water (3 brand new 5-gallon
buckets
> > from Home Depot), keep the same plants, do not scrub the decorative
rocks,
> > re-use the old filter media without rinsing it out for an extended
period,
> > filter the substrate through an old pillow case, and add a dose of
> > Stress-Zyme. Should all these measures be good enough not to throw me
out
> > of cycle too much?
> >
> > I would welcome any suggestions.
> > --
> >
> > This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
> >
> > SAM >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Justin Boucher]

Thanks for clearing it up. I agree, a reverse on one end and a forward on
the other wouldn't produce much through the UGF filter.

I currently have a 100g on a UGF for over 7 years now and have never worried
about the "muck" under the plate. When I shut down my 40 (lack of space due
to a new baby) with a UGF running for several years, there was barely any
muck under that plate. I believe that the muck is a result of inadequate
flow. I target my systems flow rate to be a full tank turnover in 10
minutes or less. This would mean that I have enough powerheads to push 20
gals of water in 10 minutes for my 20 gal tank. Once I chose to do this vs
the airstone route, my tanks were clearer, healthier and cleaner.

I have also used live plants in a system without a UGF (the 20 was set up
this way) and notice a huge improvement in fish health and activity. I
fully intend to converty my 100 to the non-UGF small canister filter planted
system when financing makes it available.

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

Justin

"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> What I was meaning about point D was:
> A forward flow head on one end of the UGF and a reverse flow head on the
> other end of the UGF. I was thinking this may not be a good idea because
> the water would form a current from one end of the UGF and over to other
> end. Thus the water current would be traveling under the plates, being
> forced down from the output of one pump, and up into the input of the
other
> pump, with little or no pressure to force it thru the slits.
>
> As for the story of your friend. I could connect my biowheel filter to
the
> UGF riser, and my other forward powerhead to the other end of the UGF.
That
> is a good hardware issue idea. So I would not need the Reverse flow
> powerhead? But one of the reasons I got the reverse flow was to keep some
> of them muck from getting trapped in the substrate. But if i use my
reverse
> flow head and not the forward flow I may be back to the current issue
> mentioned above. So I am not sure what to do here.
>
> Does anyone else have any ideas? I am considering any ideas at this
point.
>
> This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
>
> SAM >>
> "Justin Boucher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have my powerheads pulling their intake through the UGF uprights which
> in
> > turn will force the water through the substrate, so I don't know what
you
> > mean in your point "d" about water bypassing the UGF.
> >
> > I had a friend in college who used a biowheel and a powerhead in is 29.
> > Both of which had their intake connected to the uprights from the UGF
(one
> > at each end). It worked amazingly well and cleared up his tanks real
> fast!
> > You may want to consider that as an option. I know the biowheel after
the
> > UGF is rather redundant, but one advantage would be a quick and easy way
> to
> > cycle through other filter media types like activated charcoal. Just
use
> > the biowheel compartment.
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > "Sam" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am a newbie but advancing.
> > >
> > > After Nine months of 23 fish in a 50 gallon tank, and about 7 assorted
> > > plants, it is time to give it a good strip down and clean out. I had
a
> > > small UGF in the tank but it did not cover the entire bottom, and I
> always
> > > do weekly water changes and gravel vacs. But I still have a large
> amount
> > > of muck that needs to be cleaned out.
> > >
> > > 1. I purchased a new UGF plate that covers my tank bottom completely,
> and
> > it
> > > has 3 locations for "pillar" tubing. I also purchased a reverse flow
> > > powerhead to add to it. The only reverse flow powerhead that I could
> find
> > at
> > > my LFS was rated at 170GPH. My current forward flow powerhead is
rated
> at
> > > 300 GPH. As my primary filter I have a biowheel rated for a 60 gallon
> > tank.
> > > a. Should I close off two of the pillar plugs? <<< Cheap cost and
plugs
> > will
> > > be covered over by the substrate.
> > > b. Or add a bubble column pillar? <<< Cheap cost (I have one installed
> now
> > > on my old UGF.), some added noise, and less visual appeal.
> > > c. OR add a second reverse flow powerhead at the far end? <<<about
> > $40.00,
> > > lots more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> > > d. OR add my current forward flow powerhead at the far end? <<<Cheap
> cost,
> > > and may cause water not to cycle thru substrate and bypass the UGF
> plate,
> > > also more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> > > So in other words the I would like less hardware in the tank and also
> > lower
> > > the muck rating as well. But I need to find a happy median for the
two.
> > > What would you do?
> > >
> > > 2. When I first setup the tank, I used Bio-Spira bacteria to cycle,
and
> > my
> > > ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been excellent at every weekly
> check.
> > > But I inquired about Bio-Spira again at my LFS and been told it's on
> > > backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle
perhaps
> I
> > > would retain about 15 gallons of tank water (3 brand new 5-gallon
> buckets
> > > from Home Depot), keep the same plants, do not scrub the decorative
> rocks,
> > > re-use the old filter media without rinsing it out for an extended
> period,
> > > filter the substrate through an old pillow case, and add a dose of
> > > Stress-Zyme. Should all these measures be good enough not to throw me
> out
> > > of cycle too much?
> > >
> > > I would welcome any suggestions.
> > > --
> > >
> > > This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
> > >
> > > SAM >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[MarAzul]

I personally would get rid of the UGF all together. The subject has been
discussed frequently here and it's the general consenus that UGF are nowhere
near as effective as other methods of filtration. The only filters I use
with my tanks are penguin power filters with biowheels.. I have never had a
problem with the water quality..

-Mar
--------------------------------------------------
If the poodle got loose, I figured I could take it. I was armed.
- Laurell K. Hamilton from the Anita Blake series


"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> What I was meaning about point D was:
> A forward flow head on one end of the UGF and a reverse flow head on the
> other end of the UGF. I was thinking this may not be a good idea because
> the water would form a current from one end of the UGF and over to other
> end. Thus the water current would be traveling under the plates, being
> forced down from the output of one pump, and up into the input of the
other
> pump, with little or no pressure to force it thru the slits.
>
> As for the story of your friend. I could connect my biowheel filter to
the
> UGF riser, and my other forward powerhead to the other end of the UGF.
That
> is a good hardware issue idea. So I would not need the Reverse flow
> powerhead? But one of the reasons I got the reverse flow was to keep some
> of them muck from getting trapped in the substrate. But if i use my
reverse
> flow head and not the forward flow I may be back to the current issue
> mentioned above. So I am not sure what to do here.
>
> Does anyone else have any ideas? I am considering any ideas at this
point.
>
> This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
>
> SAM >>
> "Justin Boucher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have my powerheads pulling their intake through the UGF uprights which
> in
> > turn will force the water through the substrate, so I don't know what
you
> > mean in your point "d" about water bypassing the UGF.
> >
> > I had a friend in college who used a biowheel and a powerhead in is 29.
> > Both of which had their intake connected to the uprights from the UGF
(one
> > at each end). It worked amazingly well and cleared up his tanks real
> fast!
> > You may want to consider that as an option. I know the biowheel after
the
> > UGF is rather redundant, but one advantage would be a quick and easy way
> to
> > cycle through other filter media types like activated charcoal. Just
use
> > the biowheel compartment.
> >
> > Justin
> >
> > "Sam" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I am a newbie but advancing.
> > >
> > > After Nine months of 23 fish in a 50 gallon tank, and about 7 assorted
> > > plants, it is time to give it a good strip down and clean out. I had
a
> > > small UGF in the tank but it did not cover the entire bottom, and I
> always
> > > do weekly water changes and gravel vacs. But I still have a large
> amount
> > > of muck that needs to be cleaned out.
> > >
> > > 1. I purchased a new UGF plate that covers my tank bottom completely,
> and
> > it
> > > has 3 locations for "pillar" tubing. I also purchased a reverse flow
> > > powerhead to add to it. The only reverse flow powerhead that I could
> find
> > at
> > > my LFS was rated at 170GPH. My current forward flow powerhead is
rated
> at
> > > 300 GPH. As my primary filter I have a biowheel rated for a 60 gallon
> > tank.
> > > a. Should I close off two of the pillar plugs? <<< Cheap cost and
plugs
> > will
> > > be covered over by the substrate.
> > > b. Or add a bubble column pillar? <<< Cheap cost (I have one installed
> now
> > > on my old UGF.), some added noise, and less visual appeal.
> > > c. OR add a second reverse flow powerhead at the far end? <<<about
> > $40.00,
> > > lots more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> > > d. OR add my current forward flow powerhead at the far end? <<<Cheap
> cost,
> > > and may cause water not to cycle thru substrate and bypass the UGF
> plate,
> > > also more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> > > So in other words the I would like less hardware in the tank and also
> > lower
> > > the muck rating as well. But I need to find a happy median for the
two.
> > > What would you do?
> > >
> > > 2. When I first setup the tank, I used Bio-Spira bacteria to cycle,
and
> > my
> > > ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been excellent at every weekly
> check.
> > > But I inquired about Bio-Spira again at my LFS and been told it's on
> > > backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle
perhaps
> I
> > > would retain about 15 gallons of tank water (3 brand new 5-gallon
> buckets
> > > from Home Depot), keep the same plants, do not scrub the decorative
> rocks,
> > > re-use the old filter media without rinsing it out for an extended
> period,
> > > filter the substrate through an old pillow case, and add a dose of
> > > Stress-Zyme. Should all these measures be good enough not to throw me
> out
> > > of cycle too much?
> > >
> > > I would welcome any suggestions.
> > > --
> > >
> > > This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
> > >
> > > SAM >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[nanoreef]

Sam wrote:

> backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle perhaps I
> would retain about 15 gallons of tank water

The bacteria does not live in the water so there really isn't a need
to keep any water. It coats every other surface though. So keep some
substrate, filter media, plants etc. It is very important that you do
not leave the substrate in stagnent water. You must keep the water
arated or the good bacteria will be killed by anerobic
bacteria. Anerobic bacteria can take over in a matter of
hours. Anerobic bacteria will kill your fish. You can also let the
media dry out as the bacteria will go dormant for a while. It is much
better that the bacteria go dormant and, or die off, then have
anerobic bacteria.

As you have a biowheel I would just set that up on the side of a
bucket and let it run. Dump you plants and other stuff in that bucket
too. Your biowheel probably contains more bacteria then a bottle of
bio-spira.

No need for the stresszyme or any of that other stuff.

[Sam]

Since it takes time for house water to de-chlorinate, could I rinse the
substrate out with the old tank water? Of course assuming I don't make the
wife unhappy by getting to much water on the floor. I still thought I would
re-cycle as much tank water as I could, so the fish would not get shocked by
the chlorine in the water that was not yet rendered safe by the Stress Coat,
that I use.

I also forgot to mention that the wife wants to re-paint the room. So it
would be a good time to get to the area behind the tank for the 6-8 hours I
have it tore down. She will most likely paint the area that was
inaccessible, and finish the paint job later in the week. What precautions
should i take, besides keeping the temporary quarters of the fish far away
from the paint materials?

--

This message was written on 100% recycled spam.

SAM >>
"nanoreef" > wrote in message
able.rogers.com...
> Sam wrote:
>
> > backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle perhaps
I
> > would retain about 15 gallons of tank water
>
> The bacteria does not live in the water so there really isn't a need
> to keep any water. It coats every other surface though. So keep some
> substrate, filter media, plants etc. It is very important that you do
> not leave the substrate in stagnent water. You must keep the water
> arated or the good bacteria will be killed by anerobic
> bacteria. Anerobic bacteria can take over in a matter of
> hours. Anerobic bacteria will kill your fish. You can also let the
> media dry out as the bacteria will go dormant for a while. It is much
> better that the bacteria go dormant and, or die off, then have
> anerobic bacteria.
>
> As you have a biowheel I would just set that up on the side of a
> bucket and let it run. Dump you plants and other stuff in that bucket
> too. Your biowheel probably contains more bacteria then a bottle of
> bio-spira.
>
> No need for the stresszyme or any of that other stuff.
>

[NetMax]

"Sam" > wrote in message
...
> I am a newbie but advancing.
>
> After Nine months of 23 fish in a 50 gallon tank, and about 7 assorted
> plants, it is time to give it a good strip down and clean out. I had a
> small UGF in the tank but it did not cover the entire bottom, and I
always
> do weekly water changes and gravel vacs. But I still have a large
amount
> of muck that needs to be cleaned out.
>
> 1. I purchased a new UGF plate that covers my tank bottom completely,
and it
> has 3 locations for "pillar" tubing. I also purchased a reverse flow
> powerhead to add to it. The only reverse flow powerhead that I could
find at
> my LFS was rated at 170GPH. My current forward flow powerhead is rated
at
> 300 GPH. As my primary filter I have a biowheel rated for a 60 gallon
tank.
> a. Should I close off two of the pillar plugs? <<< Cheap cost and plugs
will
> be covered over by the substrate.

That works fine. Select the plug which is the most central location.

> b. Or add a bubble column pillar? <<< Cheap cost (I have one installed
now
> on my old UGF.), some added noise, and less visual appeal.

Adding an airstone to a riser (pillar) is generally not a good idea. It
would compete with the powerhead (in UGF), and you might find airbubbles
travelling downwards (defeating the filtration). It is possible to use
multiple powerheads, which are similarly rated (ideally identical).

> c. OR add a second reverse flow powerhead at the far end? <<<about
$40.00,
> lots more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.
> d. OR add my current forward flow powerhead at the far end? <<<Cheap
cost,
> and may cause water not to cycle thru substrate and bypass the UGF
plate,
> also more hardware, wire routing, and even less visual appeal.

This works as well, but the UGF plates must be seperate, otherwise the
water will flow under the gravel and up/down the risers. With 2 plates,
the UGF will work as normal, drawing water down from the substrate, and
the RUGF will drive water up through the substrate. In this
configuration, you only need 1 powerhead connecting the 2 plates together
(your most powerful powerhead).

> So in other words the I would like less hardware in the tank and also
lower
> the muck rating as well. But I need to find a happy median for the
two.

Ideally, the 'muck' is just a brown dust which builds up. More than that
and you might have too much gravel, which is difficult to clean properly.

> What would you do?
>
> 2. When I first setup the tank, I used Bio-Spira bacteria to cycle,
and my
> ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates have been excellent at every weekly
check.
> But I inquired about Bio-Spira again at my LFS and been told it's on
> backorder until December. So I thought to keep some of a cycle perhaps
I
> would retain about 15 gallons of tank water (3 brand new 5-gallon
buckets
> from Home Depot), keep the same plants, do not scrub the decorative
rocks,
> re-use the old filter media without rinsing it out for an extended
period,
> filter the substrate through an old pillow case, and add a dose of
> Stress-Zyme. Should all these measures be good enough not to throw me
out
> of cycle too much?

I think so. The old water doesn't hold much bacteria, but lessens the
shock on the fish. The bacteria from the substrate multiplies fairly
quickly. I'd be most concerned about the nitrifying bacteria in the
filter media and keeping that alive. When newly set up, feed sparingly
and monitor your NH3/4 and NO2 for a few days.
cheers
--
www.NetMax.tk

> I would welcome any suggestions.
> --
>
> This message was written on 100% recycled spam.
>
> SAM >>
>
>

[nanoreef]

Sam wrote:
> Since it takes time for house water to de-chlorinate, could I rinse the
> substrate out with the old tank water?

You are going to want to use a lot of water to rince the new rock.

If your tap water contains regular chlorine then I would not worry
about it. If your tap water contains chloramine then you should be
using a dechlorinator. Dechlorinators work instantly. When you fill
the tank up after rinsing the gravel there should be dechlorinator in
the new water to take care of any traces.