Dieing fish

[mario]

Hi.
I am new to fish keeping Only about three months now.
I have a 180 litre / about 30gallon tank of freshwater tropicals.
The temperature is being maintained in the range 24.0 to 24.8 degrees C.
I set up the tank and let it run for 7 days.
The water was tested at a pet shop and found to be ok to start stocking.
I placed 2 mollies 1 platy 1 marbled angel and 1 Silver shark in the tank.
They were there for about a month when I introduced 5 crimson sucking
catfish, about 3/4 inch long each.
I did this because I started to get some brown algae.
They cleaned the tank up in a few days.
About a week later I introduced 7 neon tetras, 2 more Platys 1 molly and 1
more angel.
I have about a dozen plants like water wisteria, anubias, some reed like
plants etc.
I have lighting which is on a timer for 14 hours per day.
Their are three fluro tubes in the tank of two different colour
temperatures.

I have been changing 25% of the water every two weeks.
The water is dechlorinated before putting it in the tank.

1. First death occurred around 2 weeks ago, I noticed one of the mollies
gills were moving rapidly.
I noticed one of the other mollies seem to harass it often particularly when
being fed. I separated the aggressive molly into a floating breeding tank
to see if the other mollie calmed down, after three days it had no sign of
calming down so I let the aggressive molly back in.
Finally the molly died one morning.

2. A neon tetra died about 2 days after it was introduced to the tank.

3. A second molly started to behave strangely. It became lethargic. Spent
most of the time resting on the bottom of tank.
Then it stared to swim strangely i.e bump into things, twist around, drop to
bottom rapidly.
I could not see any spots or lesions on its body. It died a few days ago.

4. One of the crimson sucker fish was found dead on the bottom yesterday.
The suckers don't seem to be as active as before.
The brown algae is starting to return. It looks like the suckers have little
red dots near their gills and some on the top of their mouths.

I have test kits for PH, Ammonia and nitrites.
Ph is about 7.2
Ammonia is 0 ppm
Nitrites are 0 ppm.
Since I am new at this I confirmed these values at the local pet shop who
tested the water also.

I had a high Nitrite reading before the introduction of the tetras and extra
platys etc.
I stopped feeding for three days and added a purigen filter to the filter
tray the nitrites where back to 0 ppm within 2 days after being at least
5ppm before hand.
This filter is power head which sucks water into a tray the length of the
tank at the back and drops the water back into the tank at the opposite end.
It has mechanical filtration in the form of filter sponge, it has biological
filtration in the form of some noodle like material and the purigen bag, and
has some charcoal bags.

Some pet store staff say the fish may be stressed but cannot say from what.
They test the water and say its fine.

The only thing they seem to say may be it is the water changes.
I told them I did not know how much temperature change was acceptable when
changing the water.
I know last time it dropped from 24.7 to 22.2 during the water change.
Now I have bought two 20 litre drums and intend to fill them the night
before the change and keep them in the house and measure the temperature
before putting it in the tank.

I thought fish keeping would ease stress and I admit that they look
beautiful and you can drift off looking at them but I don't want them all to
die.

What can I do.
Please Help.

[Dick]

n Mon, 26 Jul 2004 09:58:34 GMT, "mario" >
wrote:

>Hi.
>I am new to fish keeping Only about three months now.
>I have a 180 litre / about 30gallon tank of freshwater tropicals.
>The temperature is being maintained in the range 24.0 to 24.8 degrees C.
>I set up the tank and let it run for 7 days.
>The water was tested at a pet shop and found to be ok to start stocking.
>I placed 2 mollies 1 platy 1 marbled angel and 1 Silver shark in the tank.
>They were there for about a month when I introduced 5 crimson sucking
>catfish, about 3/4 inch long each.
>I did this because I started to get some brown algae.
>They cleaned the tank up in a few days.
>About a week later I introduced 7 neon tetras, 2 more Platys 1 molly and 1
>more angel.
>I have about a dozen plants like water wisteria, anubias, some reed like
>plants etc.
>I have lighting which is on a timer for 14 hours per day.
>Their are three fluro tubes in the tank of two different colour
>temperatures.
>
>I have been changing 25% of the water every two weeks.
>The water is dechlorinated before putting it in the tank.
>
>1. First death occurred around 2 weeks ago, I noticed one of the mollies
>gills were moving rapidly.
>I noticed one of the other mollies seem to harass it often particularly when
>being fed. I separated the aggressive molly into a floating breeding tank
>to see if the other mollie calmed down, after three days it had no sign of
>calming down so I let the aggressive molly back in.
>Finally the molly died one morning.
>
>2. A neon tetra died about 2 days after it was introduced to the tank.
>
>3. A second molly started to behave strangely. It became lethargic. Spent
>most of the time resting on the bottom of tank.
>Then it stared to swim strangely i.e bump into things, twist around, drop to
>bottom rapidly.
>I could not see any spots or lesions on its body. It died a few days ago.
>
>4. One of the crimson sucker fish was found dead on the bottom yesterday.
>The suckers don't seem to be as active as before.
>The brown algae is starting to return. It looks like the suckers have little
>red dots near their gills and some on the top of their mouths.
>
>I have test kits for PH, Ammonia and nitrites.
>Ph is about 7.2
>Ammonia is 0 ppm
>Nitrites are 0 ppm.
>Since I am new at this I confirmed these values at the local pet shop who
>tested the water also.
>
>I had a high Nitrite reading before the introduction of the tetras and extra
>platys etc.
>I stopped feeding for three days and added a purigen filter to the filter
>tray the nitrites where back to 0 ppm within 2 days after being at least
>5ppm before hand.
>This filter is power head which sucks water into a tray the length of the
>tank at the back and drops the water back into the tank at the opposite end.
>It has mechanical filtration in the form of filter sponge, it has biological
>filtration in the form of some noodle like material and the purigen bag, and
>has some charcoal bags.
>
>Some pet store staff say the fish may be stressed but cannot say from what.
>They test the water and say its fine.
>
>The only thing they seem to say may be it is the water changes.
>I told them I did not know how much temperature change was acceptable when
>changing the water.
>I know last time it dropped from 24.7 to 22.2 during the water change.
>Now I have bought two 20 litre drums and intend to fill them the night
>before the change and keep them in the house and measure the temperature
>before putting it in the tank.
>
>I thought fish keeping would ease stress and I admit that they look
>beautiful and you can drift off looking at them but I don't want them all to
>die.
>
>What can I do.
>Please Help.
>
>

As I read your story, all sounds well. Personally, I prefer weekly
water changes. In my opinion, Mollies are a weak fish and I would not
put them into a new tank.

It could be the fish store has bad stock. I would try a different
store when you add more fish. Be sure and mention your problems.

I hope someone can come up with a better notion than mine. Fish can
be a bother and having them die when you are just starting is a
bummer! Fish do die, but if you have had your tank up and running
well for a few months you could trust what you are doing, but to lose
the fish in the first month must be discouraging.

I got back into fish last December with a 75 gallon tank. I had
numerous problems the first 6 months. Now I have 5 tanks and all are
pretty stable. I have had a few fish get sick and/or die, but I can
look at the other 130 fish and see that they are well. That is
reassuring.

Good luck.

[Dr Engelbert Buxbaum]

mario wrote:


> This filter is power head which sucks water into a tray the length of the
> tank at the back and drops the water back into the tank at the opposite end.
> It has mechanical filtration in the form of filter sponge, it has biological
> filtration in the form of some noodle like material and the purigen bag, and
> has some charcoal bags.

I would remove the charcoal and replace it with peat. Charcoal has
little function in a normal tank, but the humic acids released from the
peat can have a beneficial effect on tropical fish.

> Some pet store staff say the fish may be stressed but cannot say from what.
> They test the water and say its fine.

The fish had a lot of stress lately. They were kept in the crowded
conditions of the fish shops tank, transported several times and had to
get used to new tank conditions each time.

This stress can affect the immune system of fish and make them
susceptible to opportunistic infections. Unfortunately, if one fish gets
such an infection, there is a considerable likelyhood that it will
spread.

You could try to feed them medicated food, containing an antibiotic like
tetracyclin, for 10 days. In my experience, TetraMedica can
significantly reduce the death rate when getting new fish. You may
additionally try an addition of oil from the Australian tea tree to the
water, although I am not sure how effective that really is.

Also, when adding fish to your tank, make sure they have the opportunity
to get used to the water slowly. Let the bag float in the tank for 10'
for the temperature to get the same, then add about 50% tank water into
the bag. After further 10 min, add the same volume and wait another 10
min. Then discard most of the water in the bag and add the fish into
your tank.

> The only thing they seem to say may be it is the water changes.
> I told them I did not know how much temperature change was acceptable when
> changing the water.
> I know last time it dropped from 24.7 to 22.2 during the water change.
> Now I have bought two 20 litre drums and intend to fill them the night
> before the change and keep them in the house and measure the temperature
> before putting it in the tank.

Allow the water to stand over night (after adding antichlor), then add
it slowly to the tank. The easiest way is to put the bucket on a high
point (cupboard, ladder or something) and let the water enter the tank
through a thin hose. That way, rapid changes in water params are
avoided.