Guppies Dying - Think it's My Water

[Lady Samsara]

I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
with my tap to get a more desirable water?

Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Charles]

On 26 Jul 2004 09:48:37 -0700, (Lady
Samsara) wrote:

>I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
>in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
>from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
>nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
>one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
>later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
>she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
>guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
>quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
>the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
>harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
>bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
>within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
>at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
>eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
>on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
>reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
>know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
>greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
>involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
>live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
>water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
>with my tap to get a more desirable water?
>
>Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.


I don't see anything in the water qualities you posted that is bad.
RO water would be worse for guppies, I got into trouble with that.

You may have gotten some bad guppies from the store, they are overbred
in questionable conditions before they reach the store. I'd complain
to the store, see if they come up with any suggestions.


--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

[Dick]

On 26 Jul 2004 09:48:37 -0700, (Lady
Samsara) wrote:

>I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
>in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
>from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
>nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
>one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
>later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
>she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
>guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
>quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
>the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
>harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
>bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
>within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
>at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
>eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
>on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
>reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
>know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
>greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
>involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
>live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
>water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
>with my tap to get a more desirable water?
>
>Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.


You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a sign
of low temperature.

I would try a different store when you add new fish.

dick

[Lady Samsara]

Dick > wrote in message >...
> On 26 Jul 2004 09:48:37 -0700, (Lady
> Samsara) wrote:
>
> >I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
> >in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
> >from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
> >nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
> >one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
> >later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
> >she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
> >guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
> >quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
> >the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
> >harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
> >bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
> >within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
> >at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
> >eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
> >on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
> >reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
> >know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
> >greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
> >involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
> >live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
> >water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
> >with my tap to get a more desirable water?
> >
> >Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
>
> You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a sign
> of low temperature.
>
> I would try a different store when you add new fish.
>
> dick

I am not sure how water with 20 ppm nitrates straight from the tap is
considered allright. That means I am starting my water changes with a
nitrate reading of 20, which is higher than my tanks ever were. I
have snails and a ghost shrimp, isn't a high nitrate dangerous for
them as well? I also thought the ph of 8 was on the very high end and
severely limits what fish I can have.

Temperature in the tank stayed at about 76-78.

These guppies seemed very healthy in the store and here for the first
few days. That is why I thought the water shock was to blame for
their distress.

[Dick]

On 27 Jul 2004 09:54:19 -0700, (Lady
Samsara) wrote:

>Dick > wrote in message >...
>> On 26 Jul 2004 09:48:37 -0700, (Lady
>> Samsara) wrote:
>>
>> >I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
>> >in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
>> >from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
>> >nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
>> >one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
>> >later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
>> >she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
>> >guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
>> >quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
>> >the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
>> >harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
>> >bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
>> >within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
>> >at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
>> >eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
>> >on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
>> >reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
>> >know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
>> >greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
>> >involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
>> >live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
>> >water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
>> >with my tap to get a more desirable water?
>> >
>> >Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a sign
>> of low temperature.
>>
>> I would try a different store when you add new fish.
>>
>> dick
>
>I am not sure how water with 20 ppm nitrates straight from the tap is
>considered allright. That means I am starting my water changes with a
>nitrate reading of 20, which is higher than my tanks ever were. I
>have snails and a ghost shrimp, isn't a high nitrate dangerous for
>them as well? I also thought the ph of 8 was on the very high end and
>severely limits what fish I can have.
>
>Temperature in the tank stayed at about 76-78.
>
>These guppies seemed very healthy in the store and here for the first
>few days. That is why I thought the water shock was to blame for
>their distress.


I hope one of our "chemists" will comment on the nitrate level, your
tap water sure sounds odd. I understand 8 to be high, my tap water is
about 7.8.

I think all fish have stress when coming into a new tank. I even see
some stress when I move fish to my quarantine tank. In the Q tank the
adjustment if a matter of hours, whereas a new fish to my heavily
populate community tanks may take days.

Do you have any place for your fish to take cover such as plants or
cave like ornaments? Lots of my fish go into the heavy vegetation for
awhile. I think they like to "rest" from the busy community life.
Older fish especially seem to find a place to call their own. I have
3 Blue Gouramis that I have had for close to two years that use to
stake out places at the top of my 75 gallon tank but now tend to stay
at the bottom in the vegetation more.

dick

[RedForeman ©®]

|||| I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and
|||| reads 8 in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20
|||| ppm!(right from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help
|||| with the nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though
|||| I did lose one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail
|||| about a month later). Another snail has been very inactive lately
|||| and I am hoping she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I
|||| chose 3 male fancy guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store
|||| and they seemed fine in quarantine the first couple of days. Then
|||| the smallest just stayed at the bottom of the tank, I thought it
|||| was because the bigger one was harrasing it. I moved the bigger
|||| one but the smaller one never did bounce back and I euthanized it
|||| 2 days later. Another seemed fine but within a day or so started
|||| shimmying, not eating as much, also laying at the bottom. He died
|||| yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not eating and I've
|||| noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him on BettaMax
|||| in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water reads 0
|||| for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't know
|||| where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
|||| greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
|||| involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot
|||| have live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I
|||| put into water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix
|||| bottled water with my tap to get a more desirable water?
||||
|||| Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
|||
|||
||| You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a
||| sign of low temperature.
|||
||| I would try a different store when you add new fish.
|||
||| dick
||
|| I am not sure how water with 20 ppm nitrates straight from the tap is
|| considered allright. That means I am starting my water changes with
|| a
|| nitrate reading of 20, which is higher than my tanks ever were. I
|| have snails and a ghost shrimp, isn't a high nitrate dangerous for
|| them as well? I also thought the ph of 8 was on the very high end
|| and
|| severely limits what fish I can have.
||
|| Temperature in the tank stayed at about 76-78.
||
|| These guppies seemed very healthy in the store and here for the first
|| few days. That is why I thought the water shock was to blame for
|| their distress.

with 20ppm of nitrAtes, I'd start up a planted tank real quick... I've never
learned a way to offset nitrates from the tap... They make phos-zorb, and
similar, but not sure what would absorb the nitrates besides a big flat of
java fern or anubias....

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

[sophie]

In message >, RedForeman ©®
> writes
>|||| I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and
>|||| reads 8 in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20
>|||| ppm!(right from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help
>|||| with the nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though
>|||| I did lose one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail
>|||| about a month later). Another snail has been very inactive lately
>|||| and I am hoping she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I
>|||| chose 3 male fancy guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store
>|||| and they seemed fine in quarantine the first couple of days. Then
>|||| the smallest just stayed at the bottom of the tank, I thought it
>|||| was because the bigger one was harrasing it. I moved the bigger
>|||| one but the smaller one never did bounce back and I euthanized it
>|||| 2 days later. Another seemed fine but within a day or so started
>|||| shimmying, not eating as much, also laying at the bottom. He died
>|||| yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not eating and I've
>|||| noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him on BettaMax
>|||| in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water reads 0
>|||| for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't know
>|||| where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
>|||| greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
>|||| involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot
>|||| have live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I
>|||| put into water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix
>|||| bottled water with my tap to get a more desirable water?
>||||
>|||| Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>|||
>|||
>||| You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a
>||| sign of low temperature.
>|||
>||| I would try a different store when you add new fish.
>|||
>||| dick
>||
>|| I am not sure how water with 20 ppm nitrates straight from the tap is
>|| considered allright. That means I am starting my water changes with
>|| a
>|| nitrate reading of 20, which is higher than my tanks ever were. I
>|| have snails and a ghost shrimp, isn't a high nitrate dangerous for
>|| them as well? I also thought the ph of 8 was on the very high end
>|| and
>|| severely limits what fish I can have.
>||
>|| Temperature in the tank stayed at about 76-78.
>||
>|| These guppies seemed very healthy in the store and here for the first
>|| few days. That is why I thought the water shock was to blame for
>|| their distress.
>
>with 20ppm of nitrAtes, I'd start up a planted tank real quick... I've never
>learned a way to offset nitrates from the tap... They make phos-zorb, and
>similar, but not sure what would absorb the nitrates besides a big flat of
>java fern or anubias....

I got an ad for this:

http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/uk/en/product/m13230/1

in my inbox. I have never used aquarium products from them, but their
seeds and plants are good. I was vaguely suspicious of it as a useful
product - any opinions? I wouldn't need anything like that myself, but
if it works, might it be useful for Lady S - or is it snake oil?
--
sophie

[RedForeman ©®]

||RedForeman ©® writes
||| with 20ppm of nitrAtes, I'd start up a planted tank real quick...
||| I've never learned a way to offset nitrates from the tap... They
||| make phos-zorb, and similar, but not sure what would absorb the
||| nitrates besides a big flat of java fern or anubias....
||
|| I got an ad for this:
||
|| http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/uk/en/product/m13230/1
||
|| in my inbox. I have never used aquarium products from them, but their
|| seeds and plants are good. I was vaguely suspicious of it as a useful
|| product - any opinions? I wouldn't need anything like that myself,
|| but if it works, might it be useful for Lady S - or is it snake oil?
|| --
|| sophie

I'm like you, suspicious of anything that works wonders... I did however
come across some NitrAzorb....

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=24499;category_id=2267

--
| RedForeman ©® fabricator and creator of the ratbike streetfighter!!!
| ==========================
| 2003 TRX450ES
| 1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
| '98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
| ==========================
| ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

[Charles]

On 27 Jul 2004 09:54:19 -0700, (Lady
Samsara) wrote:

>Dick > wrote in message >...
>> On 26 Jul 2004 09:48:37 -0700, (Lady
>> Samsara) wrote:
>>
>> >I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
>> >in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
>> >from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
>> >nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
>> >one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
>> >later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
>> >she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
>> >guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
>> >quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
>> >the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
>> >harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
>> >bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
>> >within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
>> >at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
>> >eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
>> >on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
>> >reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
>> >know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
>> >greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
>> >involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
>> >live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
>> >water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
>> >with my tap to get a more desirable water?
>> >
>> >Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>> You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a sign
>> of low temperature.
>>
>> I would try a different store when you add new fish.
>>
>> dick
>
>I am not sure how water with 20 ppm nitrates straight from the tap is
>considered allright. That means I am starting my water changes with a
>nitrate reading of 20, which is higher than my tanks ever were. I
>have snails and a ghost shrimp, isn't a high nitrate dangerous for
>them as well? I also thought the ph of 8 was on the very high end and
>severely limits what fish I can have.
>
>Temperature in the tank stayed at about 76-78.
>
>These guppies seemed very healthy in the store and here for the first
>few days. That is why I thought the water shock was to blame for
>their distress.


I am accustomed to think of Nitrate limits at 50 ppm, that is the
limit for human consumption. Higher than that can cause neurological
development problems in infants, although it appears harmless to
adults.

Baench says 150 ppm may be harmful.

The pH is high, but it seems in line with what people are getting from
their water companies. You could try to adjust it, or let the fish
tolerate it.

One book I just looked at says that sodium phosphate is used to reduce
pH. That wouldn't work well on my water, the water company uses
sodium hydroxide to raise the pH. I think I( would need to add a
mineral acid, hydrochloric probably, to affect the pH of my water.
You might check with your water company to see what they add. If you
can get past the PR people, most employees I have met are more than
willing to tell you more than you want to know.

What are the water conditions at the store? A couple stores near me,
one independent, one a chain, use RO to prepare their water, their
fish are being kept in extremely soft water.

I'm still thinking you got bad fish to start with. I hang out
sometimes at a water garden shop, they sell koi and goldfish. We have
received bad batches from the wholesaler, high disease rates and
mortality, other batches have been just fine. the wholesaler has
changed his sources at times, based on complaints. Guppies are not
treated very well in the trade, I have read of 50% mortality in
shipment, this is made up for by putting more in the bag.


Slightly off topic, I ran onto this site while looking for
information. It looks good.

http://home.comcast.net/~chimbolo/bulletin.htm


--

- Charles
-
-does not play well with others

[Lady Samsara]

Charles > wrote in message >...
> On 27 Jul 2004 09:54:19 -0700, (Lady
> Samsara) wrote:
>
> >Dick > wrote in message >...
> >> On 26 Jul 2004 09:48:37 -0700, (Lady
> >> Samsara) wrote:
> >>
> >> >I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
> >> >in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
> >> >from the tap). I have started using Amquel Plus to help with the
> >> >nitrates along with NovAqua. My Betta seems fine (though I did lose
> >> >one Betta right after arriving, as well as a snail about a month
> >> >later). Another snail has been very inactive lately and I am hoping
> >> >she's allright. To start restocking my 10 gallon I chose 3 male fancy
> >> >guppies. The tank looked healthy in the store and they seemed fine in
> >> >quarantine the first couple of days. Then the smallest just stayed at
> >> >the bottom of the tank, I thought it was because the bigger one was
> >> >harrasing it. I moved the bigger one but the smaller one never did
> >> >bounce back and I euthanized it 2 days later. Another seemed fine but
> >> >within a day or so started shimmying, not eating as much, also laying
> >> >at the bottom. He died yesterday. The last one is now shimmying, not
> >> >eating and I've noticed a hole in his dorsal fin. I have started him
> >> >on BettaMax in hopes it will help. Aside from the readings above water
> >> >reads 0 for ammonia and nitrites. I am sure it's my water and don't
> >> >know where to go from here. Am I missing something? I am not the
> >> >greatest with understanding water qualities. I don't want to get
> >> >involved with R.O. water or pH adjustors, and right now cannot have
> >> >live plants as the lighting is inadequate. What fish can I put into
> >> >water of this conditon which will do well? Can I mix bottled water
> >> >with my tap to get a more desirable water?
> >> >
> >> >Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> >>
> >>
> >> You don't mention your tank temperature. Shimmying fish can be a sign
> >> of low temperature.
> >>
> >> I would try a different store when you add new fish.
> >>
> >> dick
> >
> >I am not sure how water with 20 ppm nitrates straight from the tap is
> >considered allright. That means I am starting my water changes with a
> >nitrate reading of 20, which is higher than my tanks ever were. I
> >have snails and a ghost shrimp, isn't a high nitrate dangerous for
> >them as well? I also thought the ph of 8 was on the very high end and
> >severely limits what fish I can have.
> >
> >Temperature in the tank stayed at about 76-78.
> >
> >These guppies seemed very healthy in the store and here for the first
> >few days. That is why I thought the water shock was to blame for
> >their distress.
>
>
> I am accustomed to think of Nitrate limits at 50 ppm, that is the
> limit for human consumption. Higher than that can cause neurological
> development problems in infants, although it appears harmless to
> adults.
>
> Baench says 150 ppm may be harmful.
>
> The pH is high, but it seems in line with what people are getting from
> their water companies. You could try to adjust it, or let the fish
> tolerate it.
>
> One book I just looked at says that sodium phosphate is used to reduce
> pH. That wouldn't work well on my water, the water company uses
> sodium hydroxide to raise the pH. I think I( would need to add a
> mineral acid, hydrochloric probably, to affect the pH of my water.
> You might check with your water company to see what they add. If you
> can get past the PR people, most employees I have met are more than
> willing to tell you more than you want to know.
>
> What are the water conditions at the store? A couple stores near me,
> one independent, one a chain, use RO to prepare their water, their
> fish are being kept in extremely soft water.
>
> I'm still thinking you got bad fish to start with. I hang out
> sometimes at a water garden shop, they sell koi and goldfish. We have
> received bad batches from the wholesaler, high disease rates and
> mortality, other batches have been just fine. the wholesaler has
> changed his sources at times, based on complaints. Guppies are not
> treated very well in the trade, I have read of 50% mortality in
> shipment, this is made up for by putting more in the bag.
>
>
> Slightly off topic, I ran onto this site while looking for
> information. It looks good.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~chimbolo/bulletin.htm

Hello all...Thanks for the input! Has anyone used this Nitra-zorb?
Is it a container that you just place in the tank? I am presently
using Amquel Plus which purports to remove 13ppm nitrate. The wierd
part is the nitrate still reads on test results. I called Kordon and
the Doctor in charge (a Doctor at Kordon?) said they are trying to
figure out why the nitrate still registers on the tests, to keep
watching their website as they are trying to iron it out. I know
plants are my best option but have incandesant (sp) lighting and know
it is not adequate for live plants. Maybe once I get working I can
buy a flourescent top and start with some easy ones. In the meantime
all new fish are on hold. I know they could have been bad guppies but
they were so healthy in the store and when I first got them home and
they all showed symptoms of distress that seemed to be directly
related to bad water quality.

[RedForeman ©®]

|| Hello all...Thanks for the input! Has anyone used this Nitra-zorb?
|| Is it a container that you just place in the tank? I am presently
|| using Amquel Plus which purports to remove 13ppm nitrate. The wierd
|| part is the nitrate still reads on test results. I called Kordon and
|| the Doctor in charge (a Doctor at Kordon?) said they are trying to
|| figure out why the nitrate still registers on the tests, to keep
|| watching their website as they are trying to iron it out. I know
|| plants are my best option but have incandesant (sp) lighting and know
|| it is not adequate for live plants. Maybe once I get working I can
|| buy a flourescent top and start with some easy ones. In the meantime
|| all new fish are on hold. I know they could have been bad guppies
|| but
|| they were so healthy in the store and when I first got them home and
|| they all showed symptoms of distress that seemed to be directly
|| related to bad water quality.

I've used the water softeners, they're just like the Nitrazorb pillows...
you put the pillow in your HOB filter, leave it there for a week, and to
recharge it, you'll put it back into it's container with some aquarium salt.
That is, if the NitraZorb is the same as the water softener....

Also, I'd almost test your tap water out of tank, to see if it is your test
kit that is bad too.... just in case, I'd test Amquels ability to remove
nitrate... sounds um.... fishy...


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| ==========================
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| ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·.¸. ><((((º> ·´¯`·. , .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>
| for any questions you may have....
| www.gmail.com

[NetMax]

"Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
m...
> I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
> in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
> from the tap).

I think your problem might be shock. The tanks the Guppies came from
might be significantly different, so the change would be stressful. I
currently have Guppies in 8.4pH, >200 hardness, >200 alkalinity. These
are not great conditions for Guppies, but they maintain their population
base. Each generation is more adapted, though I think I'm at the limits
of their adaptability. Your 20ppm nitrate is the limit I usually go to
for small fish as a change. Once acclimated to the 20ppm, I'm sure they
would be fine in 40-50ppm, as long as the transition was gradual.
However, your Guppies were faced with the 20ppm delta and possibly a big
change in hardness, and pH. Probably too much for a small fish which is
often in less that ideal conditions anyways.

y are not what I would consider to be particularly hardy.

Can I mix bottled water
> with my tap to get a more desirable water?

Yes. Set up your quarantine tank with water from the shop (or similar).
Then after a week, start doing small daily water changes to acclimate
them to your source water (20% every 2-3 days?). During the acclimation,
try to keep any fry alive as each Guppy generation is much more
adaptable, but fry born in one condition and then moved to a very
different condition will probably perish, so ymmv. hth
--
www.NetMax.tk


> Thank you...any and all help/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Lady Samsara]

"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> "Lady Samsara" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I recently moved and now have well water. The pH runs 7.6 (and reads 8
> > in the tank), hardness 150, alkalinity 120 and nitrates 20 ppm!(right
> > from the tap).
>
> I think your problem might be shock. The tanks the Guppies came from
> might be significantly different, so the change would be stressful. I
> currently have Guppies in 8.4pH, >200 hardness, >200 alkalinity. These
> are not great conditions for Guppies, but they maintain their population
> base. Each generation is more adapted, though I think I'm at the limits
> of their adaptability. Your 20ppm nitrate is the limit I usually go to
> for small fish as a change. Once acclimated to the 20ppm, I'm sure they
> would be fine in 40-50ppm, as long as the transition was gradual.
> However, your Guppies were faced with the 20ppm delta and possibly a big
> change in hardness, and pH. Probably too much for a small fish which is
> often in less that ideal conditions anyways.
>
> y are not what I would consider to be particularly hardy.
>
> Can I mix bottled water
> > with my tap to get a more desirable water?
>
> Yes. Set up your quarantine tank with water from the shop (or similar).
> Then after a week, start doing small daily water changes to acclimate
> them to your source water (20% every 2-3 days?). During the acclimation,
> try to keep any fry alive as each Guppy generation is much more
> adaptable, but fry born in one condition and then moved to a very
> different condition will probably perish, so ymmv. hth

Thank you for the insight, NetMax. My final fish, my Betta is now
ill...I give up for a while. Too many too fast, and I feel helpless.
Thank you for the help.