Clown Loach

[GloFish]

Good Morning! (afternoon/evening)

Got a quick one, I hope.

45 gallon real and fake plants, tropical freshwater community, mostly
livebearers, a few cories, danios, 2 clown loaches and 1 common pl*co.

I have read tons on the clowns, I know they often appear dead, just to
get up and swim away, I've read about them swimming in barrel rolls,
and other wise looking like they were about to die. These symptoms
describe one of our loaches.

This tanks is filtered by a Magnum 350, gets a gravel vac every other
week, has had stable water for for ever.... like 6 months since we had
an issue. Temp is steady aroun 76F

PH 7.2
Am 0
Nitrite 0
nitrate < 10

10 -15% water change every week.


Now, the question. This is the first time we have seen any of the
loaches do this. The only recent change was the removal of 4 medium
(>2inches) two weeks ago.

How do you tell if the loach is sick, or just "hanging out"


TIA


--Tony

[david]

"GloFish" > wrote in message
...
> Good Morning! (afternoon/evening)
>
> Got a quick one, I hope.
>
> 45 gallon real and fake plants, tropical freshwater community, mostly
> livebearers, a few cories, danios, 2 clown loaches and 1 common pl*co.
>
> I have read tons on the clowns, I know they often appear dead, just to
> get up and swim away, I've read about them swimming in barrel rolls,
> and other wise looking like they were about to die. These symptoms
> describe one of our loaches.
>
> This tanks is filtered by a Magnum 350, gets a gravel vac every other
> week, has had stable water for for ever.... like 6 months since we had
> an issue. Temp is steady aroun 76F
>
> PH 7.2
> Am 0
> Nitrite 0
> nitrate < 10
>
> 10 -15% water change every week.
>
>
> Now, the question. This is the first time we have seen any of the
> loaches do this. The only recent change was the removal of 4 medium
> (>2inches) two weeks ago.
>
> How do you tell if the loach is sick, or just "hanging out"
>
>
> TIA
>
>
> --Tony

Tony what is 4 medium ?

[NetMax]

"GloFish" > wrote in message
...
> Good Morning! (afternoon/evening)
>
> Got a quick one, I hope.
>
> 45 gallon real and fake plants, tropical freshwater community, mostly
> livebearers, a few cories, danios, 2 clown loaches and 1 common pl*co.
>
> I have read tons on the clowns, I know they often appear dead, just to
> get up and swim away, I've read about them swimming in barrel rolls,
> and other wise looking like they were about to die. These symptoms
> describe one of our loaches.
>
> This tanks is filtered by a Magnum 350, gets a gravel vac every other
> week, has had stable water for for ever.... like 6 months since we had
> an issue. Temp is steady aroun 76F
>
> PH 7.2
> Am 0
> Nitrite 0
> nitrate < 10
>
> 10 -15% water change every week.
>
>
> Now, the question. This is the first time we have seen any of the
> loaches do this. The only recent change was the removal of 4 medium
> (>2inches) two weeks ago.
>
> How do you tell if the loach is sick, or just "hanging out"

I look at their colour, their markings and their stomach. Skin should be
more towards orange than pale rose. Bands should be dark and not faded
at their edges. Stomach should be flat or protrude slightly. Of these
symptoms, the concave stomach is the most serious, as the others can be
triggered by stress. AFAIK, barrel rolls are not normal for any fish.
hth
--
www.NetMax.tk


> TIA
>
>
> --Tony

[Ali Day]

> I look at their colour, their markings and their stomach. Skin should be
> more towards orange than pale rose. Bands should be dark and not faded
> at their edges. Stomach should be flat or protrude slightly. Of these
> symptoms, the concave stomach is the most serious, as the others can be
> triggered by stress. AFAIK, barrel rolls are not normal for any fish.
> hth

I've found that clown loaches can do all sorts of weird things. I've already
said before when I moved them into the new tank I took away their favorite
hiding place (it was filthy, and there were loads of other cubby holes) and
they spent all the time swimming up and down the full height of the tank in
a corner, to the point they wore the sand away. This started to stress the
discus so I bought an identical cubby hole, and now I only see them for an
hour after the lights go off and before I go to bed.

They also fight with each other alot, still trying to work out the colouring
but sometimes the dominanate one, all his bands go grey whilst they're
fighting. But they all live in loach motel and fake wooden branch with holes
all over it, in perfect peace.

If it is lying on it's side when you go near the tank they usually dart off.
If it's still listless when you start to disturb the tank then you have a
problem.

Barrel rolls and swimming backwards are only some of the their stunts.

Cheers

A

[GloFish]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 12:20:47 +0000 (UTC), "david" >
wrote:

+++
+++"GloFish" > wrote in message
...
+++> Good Morning! (afternoon/evening)

+++> Now, the question. This is the first time we have seen any of
the
+++> loaches do this. The only recent change was the removal of 4
medium
+++> (>2inches) two weeks ago.
+++>
+++> How do you tell if the loach is sick, or just "hanging out"
+++>
+++>
+++> TIA
+++>
+++>
+++> --Tony
+++
+++Tony what is 4 medium ?
+++


Whoops... that is what I get for trying to rush this out and not be
late..... I had four medium Angel fish.... the largest was closer to
three inches than two, and the other three were closer to two inches.


--Tony

[GloFish]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:35:50 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

+++"GloFish" > wrote in message
...

+++>
+++> How do you tell if the loach is sick, or just "hanging out"
+++
+++I look at their colour, their markings and their stomach. Skin
should be
+++more towards orange than pale rose. Bands should be dark and not
faded
+++at their edges. Stomach should be flat or protrude slightly. Of
these
+++symptoms, the concave stomach is the most serious, as the others
can be
+++triggered by stress. AFAIK, barrel rolls are not normal for any
fish.
+++hth

I didn't actualy see that.. my wife described that.... The poor guy
has been moved to the hospital/frye tank. His color is good, more
orange for sure... but he still doesn't look good... very lethargic
lays on the gravel, in a curved shape, usually to his right... in fact
this morning, he was on his right side, with just his head and tail
touching....

Honestly, other than his behaviour, he looks normal... we noticed him
last night at dinner time.. curled under the in take for the filter.
After about 5minutes he hadn't moved, I stuck a hose into the tank,
and sucked him out. He landed in the bucket, and started swimming, so
I introduced him into the hospital tank.

I'd hate to loose him... we went through hell saving these two from
the Angels... those fish managed to kill off soo many other fish.

Thanks everyone. Mr Max especially....


--Tony

[GloFish]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:10:39 +0200, "Ali Day"
> wrote:


+++I've found that clown loaches can do all sorts of weird things.
I've already
+++said before when I moved them into the new tank I took away their
favorite
+++hiding place (it was filthy, and there were loads of other cubby
holes) and
+++they spent all the time swimming up and down the full height of the
tank in
+++a corner, to the point they wore the sand away. This started to
stress the
+++discus so I bought an identical cubby hole, and now I only see them
for an
+++hour after the lights go off and before I go to bed.
+++
+++They also fight with each other alot, still trying to work out the
colouring
+++but sometimes the dominanate one, all his bands go grey whilst
they're
+++fighting. But they all live in loach motel and fake wooden branch
with holes
+++all over it, in perfect peace.
+++
+++If it is lying on it's side when you go near the tank they usually
dart off.
+++If it's still listless when you start to disturb the tank then you
have a
+++problem.
+++
+++Barrel rolls and swimming backwards are only some of the their
stunts.


Ali,

Like NetMax, I've never seen a healthy fish do barrel rolls, but have
heard of it with clown loaches.... These guys have never ones to
swim backwards.... even when I had three of them....

Thanks


--Tony

[NetMax]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
> > I look at their colour, their markings and their stomach. Skin
should be
> > more towards orange than pale rose. Bands should be dark and not
faded
> > at their edges. Stomach should be flat or protrude slightly. Of
these
> > symptoms, the concave stomach is the most serious, as the others can
be
> > triggered by stress. AFAIK, barrel rolls are not normal for any
fish.
> > hth
>
> I've found that clown loaches can do all sorts of weird things. I've
already
> said before when I moved them into the new tank I took away their
favorite
> hiding place (it was filthy, and there were loads of other cubby holes)
and
> they spent all the time swimming up and down the full height of the
tank in
> a corner, to the point they wore the sand away. This started to stress
the
> discus so I bought an identical cubby hole, and now I only see them for
an
> hour after the lights go off and before I go to bed.
>
> They also fight with each other alot, still trying to work out the
colouring
> but sometimes the dominanate one, all his bands go grey whilst they're
> fighting. But they all live in loach motel and fake wooden branch with
holes
> all over it, in perfect peace.
>
> If it is lying on it's side when you go near the tank they usually dart
off.
> If it's still listless when you start to disturb the tank then you have
a
> problem.
>
> Barrel rolls and swimming backwards are only some of the their stunts.
>
> Cheers
>
> A


Thanks for the correction. They are real characters. The only thing I
haven't seen is their barrel rolls. I just put some Monos in a tank with
Clown loaches and I don't know who is more excited, the Monos for all the
extra space they have, or the Clowns for all the new shiny things
swimming around for them to check out ;~).
--
www.NetMax.tk

[Ali Day]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Ali Day" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > I look at their colour, their markings and their stomach. Skin
> should be
> > > more towards orange than pale rose. Bands should be dark and not
> faded
> > > at their edges. Stomach should be flat or protrude slightly. Of
> these
> > > symptoms, the concave stomach is the most serious, as the others can
> be
> > > triggered by stress. AFAIK, barrel rolls are not normal for any
> fish.
> > > hth
> >
> > I've found that clown loaches can do all sorts of weird things. I've
> already
> > said before when I moved them into the new tank I took away their
> favorite
> > hiding place (it was filthy, and there were loads of other cubby holes)
> and
> > they spent all the time swimming up and down the full height of the
> tank in
> > a corner, to the point they wore the sand away. This started to stress
> the
> > discus so I bought an identical cubby hole, and now I only see them for
> an
> > hour after the lights go off and before I go to bed.
> >
> > They also fight with each other alot, still trying to work out the
> colouring
> > but sometimes the dominanate one, all his bands go grey whilst they're
> > fighting. But they all live in loach motel and fake wooden branch with
> holes
> > all over it, in perfect peace.
> >
> > If it is lying on it's side when you go near the tank they usually dart
> off.
> > If it's still listless when you start to disturb the tank then you have
> a
> > problem.
> >
> > Barrel rolls and swimming backwards are only some of the their stunts.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > A
>
>
> Thanks for the correction.

I would never dream of correcting anybody in here as they know a damn sight
more about fish than I do ;)

> They are real characters. The only thing I
> haven't seen is their barrel rolls. I just put some Monos in a tank with
> Clown loaches and I don't know who is more excited, the Monos for all the
> extra space they have, or the Clowns for all the new shiny things
> swimming around for them to check out ;~).

Characters they are, with all the fish I have I think the only other fish
with more 'personality' or should that be individual traits are the SAE's.
I'll never forget the first time my better half thought one was dead lying
on its side. She has a particular fondness for the clown loaches and I had
to drag her to the compuiter and show that other people have seen exactly
the same thing before she would believe there was not something drastically
wrong with it. Even now she throws a suspicion glance at an offending fish.

They also try to copy the SAE's who sit on delicate leaves rather
gracefully. Then a big fat clown loaches tries to do the same, with the fins
moving frantically to keep it in place, it's almost comical to watch.
To see a big fat clown loach be chased of it's food by a tetra, I also find
quite amusing.

After the last post had a look for grey bands and found this
http://www.loaches.com/markings.html but some think it could be the weaker
fish who goes grey. I'm not sure so I'll keep an eye out when I switch the
lights off.

cheers

A

[McEve]

"Ali Day" > wrote in message
...
>
> After the last post had a look for grey bands and found this
> http://www.loaches.com/markings.html but some think it could be the weaker
> fish who goes grey. I'm not sure so I'll keep an eye out when I switch the
> lights off.
>

Two of my five clowns are constantly trying to figure who's the bigger and
stronger, and they both get pale while trying to decide. If that means
they're both feeling insecure about who the bigger one is, or if they both
feel confident they are in fact the biggest I don't know though.

Definately the fish with the most personality in my tank though :-)

[GloFish]

Well... it wasn't unexpected, but less than 24 hours after finding him
listless at the bottom of the tank, the poor guy is no longer......

We got home tonight and he did not move, his gills were no longer
working...

This was my first experience with clown loaches, we got the trio 6
months ago, lost one to badgering by the angel fish, actually saw them
kill the first loach one night... no doubt jealous of the color. That
was the smallest loach.

Tonight we lost #2, this is two weeks after removing the angel's....
you don't think this loach was lonely, do you?

This was the first loss since we gave the angels to a friend with a
much bigger, emptier tank. Can't count how many other smaller guys
they ate.

At any rate.. .thanks for the replies... I'm gonna wait a couple of
weeks to see if anyone else shows any kind of symptoms, and then, only
if we seem to be still clean, will I consider getting some more for
the last remaining loach....


Thanks again.......


--Tony

[Dick]

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 13:48:00 GMT, GloFish >
wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:35:50 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:
>
>+++"GloFish" > wrote in message
...
>
>+++>
>+++> How do you tell if the loach is sick, or just "hanging out"
>+++
>+++I look at their colour, their markings and their stomach. Skin
>should be
>+++more towards orange than pale rose. Bands should be dark and not
>faded
>+++at their edges. Stomach should be flat or protrude slightly. Of
>these
>+++symptoms, the concave stomach is the most serious, as the others
>can be
>+++triggered by stress. AFAIK, barrel rolls are not normal for any
>fish.
>+++hth
>
>I didn't actualy see that.. my wife described that.... The poor guy
>has been moved to the hospital/frye tank. His color is good, more
>orange for sure... but he still doesn't look good... very lethargic
>lays on the gravel, in a curved shape, usually to his right... in fact
>this morning, he was on his right side, with just his head and tail
>touching....
>
>Honestly, other than his behaviour, he looks normal... we noticed him
>last night at dinner time.. curled under the in take for the filter.
>After about 5minutes he hadn't moved, I stuck a hose into the tank,
>and sucked him out. He landed in the bucket, and started swimming, so
>I introduced him into the hospital tank.
>
>I'd hate to loose him... we went through hell saving these two from
>the Angels... those fish managed to kill off soo many other fish.
>
>Thanks everyone. Mr Max especially....
>
>
>--Tony

I always like to read the Clown Loach threads, but yours is sad. It
is so hard to know when these fish are sick or just 'pretending'. I
have them in 4 of my tanks and in each tank their behavior is
different. In my 75 gallon I have six that often hang out in the
heavy low vegetation, but will lead a community schoal. In one ten
gallon tank the pair have an ornament with caves and they have
selected one of the caves for their own. Of the two, one is
definitely shyer and it will stay in the cave long after the larger
one has left its shelter to get food. In my 29 gallon the 3 stay
"stage front" most of the time and in another ten gallon I have a runt
that stays in a cave I built with wood and stones. I rarely get to
see him, but the snail population is under control so he is doing his
job. As a runt he didn't get along well with other Clowns, so he is
my "loner."

dick

[D&M]

Just to add my 2 bits...
My school of 12 clowns that I've had for a while, have yet to see them
barrel roll. I'd be worried if I seen any on mine do that. Infamous for
passing out for a snooze, not uncommon for a pile of them to call over on
eachother. There was a person on here that had posted photos, probably a
year ago, his clowns slept "out" of the water on lily pads. Didn't believe
it until I seen the photos. Only fish I got that hangs out of the water is
my weather loach.

Anyways, if you're ever in Ontario, go to the Toronto zoo, good example of
unhealthy / sick clown loaches. Faded bands with a whitish tinge to them.
Look almost "moldy" they're so faded. A happy healthy clown usually is full
in color with distinct / sharp bands. When upset, the bands fade in mine,
like first light in the morning, or during tank maintenance. Quick feeding
of frozen brine shrimp brings the color back ;)

Cheers

[axemanchris]

> Anyways, if you're ever in Ontario, go to the Toronto zoo, good example of
> unhealthy / sick clown loaches. Faded bands with a whitish tinge to them.
> Look almost "moldy" they're so faded. A happy healthy clown usually is
full
> in color with distinct / sharp bands. When upset, the bands fade in mine,
> like first light in the morning, or during tank maintenance. Quick feeding
> of frozen brine shrimp brings the color back ;)
>
> Cheers
>
>
Oh dear... when were you at the Toronto Zoo last? When I've been I've
always been amazed (and jealous!) at how gorgeous and how large their clown
loaches were. I'm taking the kids next week so I'll be sure to check them
out. Hopefully you just caught them on a bad day.

Jacqui

[D&M]

"axemanchris" > wrote in message
...
>
> > Anyways, if you're ever in Ontario, go to the Toronto zoo, good example
of
> > unhealthy / sick clown loaches. Faded bands with a whitish tinge to
them.
> > Look almost "moldy" they're so faded. A happy healthy clown usually is
> full
> > in color with distinct / sharp bands. When upset, the bands fade in
mine,
> > like first light in the morning, or during tank maintenance. Quick
feeding
> > of frozen brine shrimp brings the color back ;)
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> >
> Oh dear... when were you at the Toronto Zoo last? When I've been I've
> always been amazed (and jealous!) at how gorgeous and how large their
clown
> loaches were. I'm taking the kids next week so I'll be sure to check them
> out. Hopefully you just caught them on a bad day.
>
> Jacqui


We were there about a month and 1/2 ago. Maybe I was just expecting to much,
when I read they had Bala sharks and Clown loaches, I beelined to the tanks
expecting to see behemoth sized fish, happy as can be in monster tanks. My
Bala's are larger than theirs were, and I got a couple clowns about as long
as theirs, just mine are a bit chubbier and healthier looking. I just got a
new 135g tank for them. Think the fish are taking over the place, lol.

I think that one big pond in the middle with the huge ID sharks should be
labled a bit better, so people can see what these cute little fish turn out
to be. There were a couple people there while I was that didn't believe
those 2-3' fish were ID Sharks.

Hopefully you get a better day there than we did, it was so crowded there
when we were there, it was crazy. Could tell where an animal was, just look
for the swarm of people. Was as bad as Wonderland. Got nice for us a couple
hours before it closed, most the people cleared the park late in the day,
nice and quiet.

[Dick]

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 20:09:51 -0400, "D&M" > wrote:

>"axemanchris" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> > Anyways, if you're ever in Ontario, go to the Toronto zoo, good example
>of
>> > unhealthy / sick clown loaches. Faded bands with a whitish tinge to
>them.
>> > Look almost "moldy" they're so faded. A happy healthy clown usually is
>> full
>> > in color with distinct / sharp bands. When upset, the bands fade in
>mine,
>> > like first light in the morning, or during tank maintenance. Quick
>feeding
>> > of frozen brine shrimp brings the color back ;)
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> >
>> Oh dear... when were you at the Toronto Zoo last? When I've been I've
>> always been amazed (and jealous!) at how gorgeous and how large their
>clown
>> loaches were. I'm taking the kids next week so I'll be sure to check them
>> out. Hopefully you just caught them on a bad day.
>>
>> Jacqui
>
>
>We were there about a month and 1/2 ago. Maybe I was just expecting to much,
>when I read they had Bala sharks and Clown loaches, I beelined to the tanks
>expecting to see behemoth sized fish, happy as can be in monster tanks. My
>Bala's are larger than theirs were, and I got a couple clowns about as long
>as theirs, just mine are a bit chubbier and healthier looking. I just got a
>new 135g tank for them. Think the fish are taking over the place, lol.
>
>I think that one big pond in the middle with the huge ID sharks should be
>labled a bit better, so people can see what these cute little fish turn out
>to be. There were a couple people there while I was that didn't believe
>those 2-3' fish were ID Sharks.
>
>Hopefully you get a better day there than we did, it was so crowded there
>when we were there, it was crazy. Could tell where an animal was, just look
>for the swarm of people. Was as bad as Wonderland. Got nice for us a couple
>hours before it closed, most the people cleared the park late in the day,
>nice and quiet.
>

I have 12 Clown Loaches. I have had them about one year. In that
time I have discovered mention of how large the Clowns get. However,
in that same year my Clowns have not grown much and are now under 3".
I have worried, but then wondered if their are different varieties of
Clowns. It is not the tank size, 3 are in 10 gallon tanks whereas the
other 9 are in 29 and 75 gallon tanks. Do they grow in stages? I
would think they would have been growing steadily, but most of their
change in length happened in the first 6 months.

I am becoming hopeful that I have some variety that don't become
monster fish. I like them a lot and have a small home with no chance
of getting a monster tank.

dick

[Victor Martinez]

Dick wrote:
> I am becoming hopeful that I have some variety that don't become
> monster fish. I like them a lot and have a small home with no chance
> of getting a monster tank.

No such thing, they will outgrow your tanks. However, it might take some
time. They are very long lived fish.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[D&M]

> I have 12 Clown Loaches. I have had them about one year. In that
> time I have discovered mention of how large the Clowns get. However,
> in that same year my Clowns have not grown much and are now under 3".
> I have worried, but then wondered if their are different varieties of
> Clowns. It is not the tank size, 3 are in 10 gallon tanks whereas the
> other 9 are in 29 and 75 gallon tanks. Do they grow in stages? I
> would think they would have been growing steadily, but most of their
> change in length happened in the first 6 months.
>
> I am becoming hopeful that I have some variety that don't become
> monster fish. I like them a lot and have a small home with no chance
> of getting a monster tank.
>
> dick

Couple things I've learned, you can keep a big fish small by keeping it in a
small tank. Think it's refered to as stunting. Never tried it to see if it
actually does.

My fish are spoiled, they get a large variety of frozen foods such as beef
heart, brine shrimp, krill, along with various fruits and veggies. I found
the improved diet drastically increased their growth rate and health.
Injuries heal faster I noticed as well. They also get the staple food, high
quality flake and pellets. If you take a look at color enhancing flake, look
at the ingredients. Loaded with veggies and other essentials, so I just
emulate that with natural foods when possible, works great.

[Victor Martinez]

D&M wrote:
> Couple things I've learned, you can keep a big fish small by keeping it in a
> small tank. Think it's refered to as stunting. Never tried it to see if it
> actually does.

It's a myth. And a very cruel thing to do, IMO.

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[Dick]

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 18:19:55 GMT, Victor Martinez >
wrote:

>Dick wrote:
>> I am becoming hopeful that I have some variety that don't become
>> monster fish. I like them a lot and have a small home with no chance
>> of getting a monster tank.
>
>No such thing, they will outgrow your tanks. However, it might take some
>time. They are very long lived fish.

Apparently not everyone agrees to size:

6 inches
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/loaches1/p/clownloach.htm
"Once they are established, Clown Loaches live for several years in an
aquarium, where they grow slowly, but seldom reach the size recorded
for wild specimens (About one foot)."
http://www.loaches.com/species_pages/botia_macracanthus.html
up to 12 inches
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=873
"smaller in aquaria - about 6 inches"
http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/clown.htm

[Victor Martinez]

Dick wrote:
> Apparently not everyone agrees to size:

I have seen plenty of 6"+ clowns in aquaria to be able to speak from
experience. :)

--
Victor Martinez
Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)
Send your spam here:
Email me here:

[NetMax]

"D&M" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> > I have 12 Clown Loaches. I have had them about one year. In that
> > time I have discovered mention of how large the Clowns get. However,
> > in that same year my Clowns have not grown much and are now under 3".
> > I have worried, but then wondered if their are different varieties of
> > Clowns. It is not the tank size, 3 are in 10 gallon tanks whereas
the
> > other 9 are in 29 and 75 gallon tanks. Do they grow in stages? I
> > would think they would have been growing steadily, but most of their
> > change in length happened in the first 6 months.
> >
> > I am becoming hopeful that I have some variety that don't become
> > monster fish. I like them a lot and have a small home with no chance
> > of getting a monster tank.
> >
> > dick
>
> Couple things I've learned, you can keep a big fish small by keeping it
in a
> small tank. Think it's refered to as stunting. Never tried it to see if
it
> actually does.
>
> My fish are spoiled, they get a large variety of frozen foods such as
beef
> heart, brine shrimp, krill, along with various fruits and veggies. I
found
> the improved diet drastically increased their growth rate and health.
> Injuries heal faster I noticed as well. They also get the staple food,
high
> quality flake and pellets. If you take a look at color enhancing flake,
look
> at the ingredients. Loaded with veggies and other essentials, so I just
> emulate that with natural foods when possible, works great.


The topic of growth rates was covered here in detail a couple of years
ago. Participants included biologists, breeders, hobbyists and a fellow
who worked at a fish farm (among many others). IIRC, the factors which
most influenced growth were determined to be water quality, food quality,
number of meals per day, total food quantity per day, temperature, light
duration and a few others. What I clearly remember was that water
quality was by far the greatest influencing variable once the fish
received more calories than absolutely essential for survival (and they
really don't need much). Keeping the water clean (fresh, highly diluted
TDS, nitrates etc) would result in the highest growth rates and largest
eventual size (I pictured connecting a continuously running water change
system to a 5g and watching a 'square' Goldfish grow to the size of the
tank ;~).

There has been much speculation on exactly what element it is which
builds up in the water to slow their growth (ie: hormones, DOCs etc) but
the general consensus is that water changes remove the growth constraint,
(which manifests itself as the 'stunting' characteristic sometimes seen).

Note that the more spoiled your fish are (more food and higher protein
mixtures), the more comes out their 'tail-pipe' ;~), so you should really
be doing even more water changes to really get the full benefit of the
varied diet. Basically, if you think you're feeding double what you
could be, then your filtration and water change routine should be
increased by a similar amount. For example, if you are running a 100g
and your filtration is 50% utilized, then doubling your feeding would
cause your biological load to go to 100%. To keep a safe operating
margin, you would need to filter the tank as a 150g. I've seen tanks
which needed to be filtered at 3 times their volume to keep up with the
biological filtering alone, so you can imagine how much more water
changes they needed. jmo
--
www.NetMax.tk

[axemanchris]

"D&M" > wrote in message
...
> "axemanchris" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > Anyways, if you're ever in Ontario, go to the Toronto zoo, good
example
> of
> > > unhealthy / sick clown loaches. Faded bands with a whitish tinge to
> them.
> > > Look almost "moldy" they're so faded. A happy healthy clown usually is
> > full
> > > in color with distinct / sharp bands. When upset, the bands fade in
> mine,
> > > like first light in the morning, or during tank maintenance. Quick
> feeding
> > > of frozen brine shrimp brings the color back ;)
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > >
> > Oh dear... when were you at the Toronto Zoo last? When I've been I've
> > always been amazed (and jealous!) at how gorgeous and how large their
> clown
> > loaches were. I'm taking the kids next week so I'll be sure to check
them
> > out. Hopefully you just caught them on a bad day.
> >
> > Jacqui
>
>
> We were there about a month and 1/2 ago. Maybe I was just expecting to
much,
> when I read they had Bala sharks and Clown loaches, I beelined to the
tanks
> expecting to see behemoth sized fish, happy as can be in monster tanks. My
> Bala's are larger than theirs were, and I got a couple clowns about as
long
> as theirs, just mine are a bit chubbier and healthier looking. I just got
a
> new 135g tank for them. Think the fish are taking over the place, lol.
>
> I think that one big pond in the middle with the huge ID sharks should be
> labled a bit better, so people can see what these cute little fish turn
out
> to be. There were a couple people there while I was that didn't believe
> those 2-3' fish were ID Sharks.
>
> Hopefully you get a better day there than we did, it was so crowded there
> when we were there, it was crazy. Could tell where an animal was, just
look
> for the swarm of people. Was as bad as Wonderland. Got nice for us a
couple
> hours before it closed, most the people cleared the park late in the day,
> nice and quiet.

Crowded just doesn't describe it, does it. It took us 45 minutes from
Sheppard to the parking lot & then another 45 to stand in line to pay to get
into the zoo itself. I didnt' make it to the Clown Loach tank I'm afraid.
We're going again in September, so I'll make a point of seeking it out then.
The kids think it's cool that we have "zoo animals" at home. :-)

Jacqui