First fish suggestions...

[Aroon]

Hi,

I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
to add to my sal****er tank.

This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.

The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
add fish soon.

My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
1 six line wrasse.

I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
hardy fish to start.

I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
stable, and where they should be.

Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.

If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
you.

Thanks, Aroon

[Pszemol]

"Aroon" > wrote in message ups.com...
> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish,

Only one? I would get two and have a pair. Pairing is tricky...
Buy two small ones, from a tank where they swim in a group.
Singled out fish for a while turns into (aggressive) female...

> 1 goby, and 1 six line wrasse.

That is it for a 58 gallon?

Do you plan this to be a fish-only tank or reef (w/corals)?

[A. Paul. Ing]

Broiled snapper is good! But then again so is Grilled Skamp or
Grouper.........batter dipped shrimp, boiled lobster and a ton of
butter.......my god dude just look at a menu and decide!

IMNSHO snapper is always good unless someone by the name of TYNK is
connected to the other side of it! Then its best to stick to ho's
devores.......



On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:58:40 -0000, Aroon >
wrote:

<<>>Hi,
<<>>
<<>>I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
<<>>to add to my sal****er tank.
<<>>
<<>>This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
<<>>life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
<<>>
<<>>The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
<<>>turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
<<>>I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
<<>>trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
<<>>add fish soon.
<<>>
<<>>My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
<<>>1 six line wrasse.
<<>>
<<>>I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
<<>>hardy fish to start.
<<>>
<<>>I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
<<>>stable, and where they should be.
<<>>
<<>>Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
<<>>
<<>>If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
<<>>you.
<<>>
<<>>Thanks, Aroon

[KurtG]

Aroon wrote:
> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
> to add to my sal****er tank.

I'd go for a lawnmower blenny. He'll help with algae control and what
he lacks in beauty he'll make up for with lots of personality.

I also have 3 neon blue damsels that have been with me from day 1. They
are hardy and fun to watch. After 9 months, they still haven't been
very aggressive, but that may be the result of larger more aggressive fish.

--Kurt

[Pszemol]

"KurtG" > wrote in message .. .
> Aroon wrote:
>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>
> I'd go for a lawnmower blenny. He'll help with algae control and what
> he lacks in beauty he'll make up for with lots of personality.

I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.

> I also have 3 neon blue damsels that have been with me from day 1.
> They are hardy and fun to watch. After 9 months, they still haven't been
> very aggressive, but that may be the result of larger more aggressive fish.

I would not advice damsels to a person who did not indicate wish to have one.
These are very misunderstood fish and many people waste them as a cycle fish.
Having a problem then, when fish matures and becomes heighly territorial.

He is thinking about clownfish - this is hardy, beginner fish, good for a start.
Plan the fish you want to keep ahead of time and do not impulse-buy fish
which might be imcompatible to others.

[A. Paul. Ing]

Damsels are place on earth to be sacrificed for cycling a tank to the
benefit of the human race.nothing more, they are considered expendable
just like 99% of the members of this and the other aquaria forums are,
and virtually all of the rpm forum......**** a god dam clown
fish.......you chech dumbass.............

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:35:34 -0500, "Pszemol" >
wrote:

<<>>"KurtG" > wrote in message .. .
<<>>> Aroon wrote:
<<>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
<<>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
<<>>>
<<>>> I'd go for a lawnmower blenny. He'll help with algae control and what
<<>>> he lacks in beauty he'll make up for with lots of personality.
<<>>
<<>>I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.
<<>>
<<>>> I also have 3 neon blue damsels that have been with me from day 1.
<<>>> They are hardy and fun to watch. After 9 months, they still haven't been
<<>>> very aggressive, but that may be the result of larger more aggressive fish.
<<>>
<<>>I would not advice damsels to a person who did not indicate wish to have one.
<<>>These are very misunderstood fish and many people waste them as a cycle fish.
<<>>Having a problem then, when fish matures and becomes heighly territorial.
<<>>
<<>>He is thinking about clownfish - this is hardy, beginner fish, good for a start.
<<>>Plan the fish you want to keep ahead of time and do not impulse-buy fish
<<>>which might be imcompatible to others.

[KurtG]

Pszemol wrote:
> I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.

Mine is fairly tame although I've seen it chase a blue damsel out of his
rabbit hole. He roams the entire 110g tank, but seems mostly content to
sit and watch happenings both inside and outside of the tank. I wonder
what goes on in its little head sometimes. I've seen my tang and
blenny feed on the nori simultaneously. No fireworks.

But, Pszemol is right. Definitely think about what you want and plan
accordingly to avoid aggression.

--Kurt

[Aroon]

On Jun 25, 1:45 pm, KurtG > wrote:
> Pszemol wrote:
> > I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.
>
> Mine is fairly tame although I've seen it chase a blue damsel out of his
> rabbit hole. He roams the entire 110g tank, but seems mostly content to
> sit and watch happenings both inside and outside of the tank. I wonder
> what goes on in its little head sometimes. I've seen my tang and
> blenny feed on the nori simultaneously. No fireworks.
>
> But, Pszemol is right. Definitely think about what you want and plan
> accordingly to avoid aggression.
>
> --Kurt

thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.
Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.

are there any issues you've heard about keeping blennies and gobies
together? i expect that have similar habitat needs. and gobies can get
alot bigger (in my field experience, anyway).

[KurtG]

Besides the blenny, I have a gobie. It's easily the most unobtrusive
fish that I have.




Aroon wrote:
> On Jun 25, 1:45 pm, KurtG > wrote:
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.
>> Mine is fairly tame although I've seen it chase a blue damsel out of his
>> rabbit hole. He roams the entire 110g tank, but seems mostly content to
>> sit and watch happenings both inside and outside of the tank. I wonder
>> what goes on in its little head sometimes. I've seen my tang and
>> blenny feed on the nori simultaneously. No fireworks.
>>
>> But, Pszemol is right. Definitely think about what you want and plan
>> accordingly to avoid aggression.
>>
>> --Kurt
>
> thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
> as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.
> Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
> damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.
>
> are there any issues you've heard about keeping blennies and gobies
> together? i expect that have similar habitat needs. and gobies can get
> alot bigger (in my field experience, anyway).
>
>
>
>
>

[Wayne Sallee]

Pszemol wrote on 6/25/2007 3:35 PM:
> "KurtG" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Aroon wrote:
>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>
>> I'd go for a lawnmower blenny. He'll help with algae control and what
>> he lacks in beauty he'll make up for with lots of personality.
>
> I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.
>

This usually is not a problem, but one thing that is
more of a problem is that they like to bury the
corals in sand sometimes.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

[Inabón Yunes]

The first fish should be a very sturdy species such as the Neopomacentrus
cyanomos, the Regal Demoiselle, they are adapted to survive in a wide range
of parameters fluctuations. Any damselfish is fine but I found this species
to tolerate better than any other.
For starter they are great.
In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
nitrates in your tank.
You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic, then
the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when nitrogen is
less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to eat the algae,
it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts again. The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle.
Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to keep
a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.

iy
"Aroon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
> to add to my sal****er tank.
>
> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
>
> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
> add fish soon.
>
> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
> 1 six line wrasse.
>
> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
> hardy fish to start.
>
> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
> stable, and where they should be.
>
> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>
> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
> you.
>
> Thanks, Aroon
>

[Pszemol]

"Aroon" > wrote in message ups.com...
> thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
> as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.
> Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
> damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.

The cycle in your tank is over, so you do not need to worry about
elevated ammonia levels and pick a "hardy fish" because of ammonia...

Start stocking your tank with the overal picture in mind.

Think of the idea that the fish you buy will stay with you for long years.
Unless fish dies, it is very hard to catch it and remove from the reef tank
without demolishing the rock-work and probably ruin your corals first.

I got all four fish to my tank in 2002 and they are with me today...
They are kind of part of the family now :-)

Go with a pair of clownfish. The kind you plan on having.
After a month or two, get the other two-three fish you've planned for.

Damsel is not a very good choice... Very Mean *******s!
Especially when they are getting older and bigger.
They can destroy all fun from having a fish tank.
Read online alot about damsels before you decide to buy.
There are a lot of stories of people buying damsels out of
an impulse or because of stupid advice and then having hard
time geting rid of an unwanted fish. Save yourself a hassle
and donot buy damsel unless you really, really like these fish
and really want to keep them.

[Aroon]

On Jun 25, 6:58 pm, "Pszemol" > wrote:
> "Aroon" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
> > thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
> > as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.
> > Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
> > damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.
>
> The cycle in your tank is over, so you do not need to worry about
> elevated ammonia levels and pick a "hardy fish" because of ammonia...
>
> Start stocking your tank with the overal picture in mind.
>
> Think of the idea that the fish you buy will stay with you for long years.
> Unless fish dies, it is very hard to catch it and remove from the reef tank
> without demolishing the rock-work and probably ruin your corals first.
>
> I got all four fish to my tank in 2002 and they are with me today...
> They are kind of part of the family now :-)
>
> Go with a pair of clownfish. The kind you plan on having.
> After a month or two, get the other two-three fish you've planned for.
>
> Damsel is not a very good choice... Very Mean *******s!
> Especially when they are getting older and bigger.
> They can destroy all fun from having a fish tank.
> Read online alot about damsels before you decide to buy.
> There are a lot of stories of people buying damsels out of
> an impulse or because of stupid advice and then having hard
> time geting rid of an unwanted fish. Save yourself a hassle
> and donot buy damsel unless you really, really like these fish
> and really want to keep them.

thanks for your advice, Pszemol.
that was a very well thought out response to my inquiry.

i am now convinced that a damselfish may be a good starter, but not
for the right reasons. i would not want to get a fish that in the long-
term wouldn't work with the rest of the inhabitants. i have only
started in this hobby, but I would like to be as eco-conscious as
possible. i.e. no wasted fish. (its in my job description-not
kidding). and damsels aren't really what i am going for. so, i will
start with the clownfish. i would like ocellaris clowns. would they be
ok as a pair? you mentioned in an earlier reponse that they should be
small. how small?

[George Patterson]

Aroon wrote:

> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
> 1 six line wrasse.

I would put the goby in first, since they tend to be friendly fish. Something
like an orange diamond goby would be a nice one, but perhaps a bit large for
your tank. I like firefish, but you would want several of those if you go that
route. I would add the wrasse last. Note that the six-line may be aggressive and
may munch on some corals.

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fish--gobies.html
http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fish--clowns.html
http://www.marinedepotlive.com/fish--wrasses.html

George Patterson
If you torture the data long enough, eventually it will confess
to anything.

[Wayne Sallee]

Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The
more you can make the aquarium work for you, the
better. The idea of not putting algae eaters in an
aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself
is absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set
that up for the purpose of algae extract, that's
find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the
reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae
is absurd.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
> after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
> tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
> nitrates in your tank.
> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic, then
> the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when nitrogen is
> less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to eat the algae,
> it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts again. The best
> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle.
> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to keep
> a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>
> iy
> "Aroon" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>
>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
>>
>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
>> add fish soon.
>>
>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>
>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>> hardy fish to start.
>>
>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>> stable, and where they should be.
>>
>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>
>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>> you.
>>
>> Thanks, Aroon
>>
>
>

[Wayne Sallee]

Aroon wrote on 6/25/2007 10:47 PM:
> i would like ocellaris clowns. would they be
> ok as a pair? you mentioned in an earlier reponse that they should be
> small. how small?
>

Yes, they would be good. Just don't mix one species
of clown with another. Yes two ocellaris will be
good. Most of what you see for sale are small
enough. The reason that you want two small ones is
because they are all males at a young age. If you
get two, one will grow faster than the other, and it
will become a female, and boss the mail around, but
it will be a stable arangement. Having two females
(larger ones) is not a good pair.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

[Pszemol]

"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message ...
> Aroon wrote on 6/25/2007 10:47 PM:
>> i would like ocellaris clowns. would they be
>> ok as a pair? you mentioned in an earlier reponse
>> that they should be small. how small?
>
> Yes, they would be good. Just don't mix one species
> of clown with another. Yes two ocellaris will be
> good. Most of what you see for sale are small
> enough. The reason that you want two small ones is
> because they are all males at a young age. If you
> get two, one will grow faster than the other, and it
> will become a female, and boss the mail around, but
> it will be a stable arangement. Having two females
> (larger ones) is not a good pair.

Aroon, if you like clownfish and really want to read about
their interesting behaviour and unusual pairing process
borrow a very good book about them from the public library
or get your copy at Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/Clownfishes-Joyce-D-Wilkerson/dp/1890087041/
I have my copy and I love this book. Everything you want
to know about clownfish is there in very plain English :-)

Preferable get the book BEFORE you start buying your fish.
You will make better choices this way...

[Inabón Yunes]

You misunderstood my post, as usual...
Read again his question and my answer.
I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters in
> an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If one
> wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae extract,
> that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef tank so
> that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
>> after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
>> tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
>> nitrates in your tank.
>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
>> eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts
>> again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to
>> harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into
>> the cycle.
>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
>> keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>
>> iy
>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>
>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
>>>
>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
>>> add fish soon.
>>>
>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>
>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>
>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>
>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>
>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>> you.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>
>>

[Wayne Sallee]

I understood your post perfectly. You said

"The best
way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is
to harvest algae
manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back
into the cycle."

It's too bad that you have not realized that the
algae grazers' poop helps encourage denitrification
in the sand bed. And helps to feed the fauna in the
sand bed.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
> Read again his question and my answer.
> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
> iy
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
>> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters in
>> an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If one
>> wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae extract,
>> that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef tank so
>> that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>>
>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested but
>>> after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly in my
>>> tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels of
>>> nitrates in your tank.
>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
>>> eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle starts
>>> again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to
>>> harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into
>>> the cycle.
>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
>>> keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>
>>> iy
>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>
>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
>>>>
>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>
>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>
>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>
>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>
>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>
>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>
>

[Dr. Thompson]

On Jun 25, 3:21 pm, Aroon > wrote:
> On Jun 25, 1:45 pm, KurtG > wrote:
>
> > Pszemol wrote:
> > > I have heard stories about this blenny being aggressive towards other fish.
>
> > Mine is fairly tame although I've seen it chase a blue damsel out of his
> > rabbit hole. He roams the entire 110g tank, but seems mostly content to
> > sit and watch happenings both inside and outside of the tank. I wonder
> > what goes on in its little head sometimes. I've seen my tang and
> > blenny feed on the nori simultaneously. No fireworks.
>
> > But, Pszemol is right. Definitely think about what you want and plan
> > accordingly to avoid aggression.
>
> > --Kurt
>
> thanks for the comments. i only plan on having 4 or 5 fish in my 58g
> as i would like to get anemones and coral when the time is right.

anemone ... singular, not plural, and you might want to reconsider
even putting that many in there if this is your first SW tank. They
can be can be problematic and difficult to keep in the long term,
exceedingly so when you mix them with other cnidarians (eg. corals or
even other anemone species/genera). Too many people give up on this
hobby due to early catastrophic failures, and I'd hate to see another
one - I'm sure most other hobbyists would agree.

> Sounds like I shoould start with the clownfish i want, or go with a
> damsel? i have been considering a talbot damsel.

Honestly, since this is your first SW tank, a clownfish or lesser
aggressive damsel is an excellent choice. Down the road when your tank
is matured and you're ready for a new challenge you can always swap
the clownfish out for something more exotic and put it in a small,
dedicated 20g or 30g tank with your first anemone (they are much
easier to keep in a species-only or dedicated system)

> are there any issues you've heard about keeping blennies and gobies
> together? i expect that have similar habitat needs. and gobies can get
> alot bigger (in my field experience, anyway).

In a tank that size I'd say you'd stand a good chance of seeing some
aggression if you add a blenny and a goby (or even 2 blennies/ 2
gobies) so do some careful research before purchasing and careful
monitoring after adding the fish. Also be aware that many benthic
dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
from under them.

Good luck and welcome to the hobby - and my condolences to your
wallet! :)

[Wayne Sallee]

Dr. Thompson wrote on 6/27/2007 1:02 PM:
> anemone ... singular, not plural, and you might want to reconsider
> even putting that many in there if this is your first SW tank. They
> can be can be problematic and difficult to keep in the long term,
> exceedingly so when you mix them with other cnidarians (eg. corals or
> even other anemone species/genera). Too many people give up on this
> hobby due to early catastrophic failures, and I'd hate to see another
> one - I'm sure most other hobbyists would agree.

Anemone are not what a person should start out with,
but the main reason most people fail with them, is
because they don't give them enough light. Often
Aquarium stores will mislead customers into thinking
that they don't need much light in order to make
more sales.

> Honestly, since this is your first SW tank, a clownfish or lesser
> aggressive damsel is an excellent choice. Down the road when your tank
> is matured and you're ready for a new challenge you can always swap
> the clownfish out for something more exotic

People setting up a reef tank, don't swap clown fish
out for something more exotic. About the only time
people swap clown fish out, is if they get one of
the more aggressive clowns, like tomato, or maroon.
About the only time people swap an ocellaris out is
if they are going with bigger fish, but such bigger
fish don't fit well in a reef tank.

> Also be aware that many benthic
> dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
> also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
> from under them.

Yep, so many people don't think about this when they
set up a reef tank. Before you stack rock, you
should always put base rock on the glass with the
sand around it, and then stack the rock on top of
the base rock, because many fish and things will dig
the sand out of under the rock, and it's not a
matter of if, but a matter of when.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets

[Gill Passman]

Wayne Sallee wrote:

>
> Anemone are not what a person should start out with, but the main reason
> most people fail with them, is because they don't give them enough
> light. Often Aquarium stores will mislead customers into thinking that
> they don't need much light in order to make more sales.
>

Well I'm happy to report that my LFS is one of those that advises
against buying anenomes without sufficient light.....although my T5s on
the current tank could well be enough I am still cautious....I have some
hard corals doing really well but.....well.....if I lose an anenome it
will be bad for my water quality....

>
>
> People setting up a reef tank, don't swap clown fish out for something
> more exotic. About the only time people swap clown fish out, is if they
> get one of the more aggressive clowns, like tomato, or maroon. About the
> only time people swap an ocellaris out is if they are going with bigger
> fish, but such bigger fish don't fit well in a reef tank.
>

My common clowns are great but I haven't mixed them with other fish
yet....they did decapitate my tube worm though.....I'm in the process of
moving them into the bigger tank and I am still thinking anenome in
spite of the above reservations....



>> Also be aware that many benthic
>> dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
>> also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
>> from under them.
>
>
> Yep, so many people don't think about this when they set up a reef tank.
> Before you stack rock, you should always put base rock on the glass with
> the sand around it, and then stack the rock on top of the base rock,
> because many fish and things will dig the sand out of under the rock,
> and it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when.

I agree with you here.....not too much reef experience but my Mbunas are
certainly good at destabilising rock structures....I took the lessons
learnt onto my reef tank....

FWIW my new tank started with 6 green chromis (pretty hardy) - since
then I have added 2 bengaii cardinals and will be moving my clowns
across......I'm also planning on a coral beauty and also a yellow tang
to munch on the algae.....

I'm new to reef (since last Sept) but have kept freshwater for a number
of years....my philosophy is to tackle problems naturally so if I have
algae I buy an algae eater.......the clean up crew do a great job on
some of the stuff but a fish will do it better IMO

Gill

>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>

[Aroon]

On Jun 27, 3:47 pm, Gill Passman > wrote:
> Wayne Sallee wrote:
>
> > Anemone are not what a person should start out with, but the main reason
> > most people fail with them, is because they don't give them enough
> > light. Often Aquarium stores will mislead customers into thinking that
> > they don't need much light in order to make more sales.
>
> Well I'm happy to report that my LFS is one of those that advises
> against buying anenomes without sufficient light.....although my T5s on
> the current tank could well be enough I am still cautious....I have some
> hard corals doing really well but.....well.....if I lose an anenome it
> will be bad for my water quality....
>
>
>
> > People setting up a reef tank, don't swap clown fish out for something
> > more exotic. About the only time people swap clown fish out, is if they
> > get one of the more aggressive clowns, like tomato, or maroon. About the
> > only time people swap an ocellaris out is if they are going with bigger
> > fish, but such bigger fish don't fit well in a reef tank.
>
> My common clowns are great but I haven't mixed them with other fish
> yet....they did decapitate my tube worm though.....I'm in the process of
> moving them into the bigger tank and I am still thinking anenome in
> spite of the above reservations....
>
> >> Also be aware that many benthic
> >> dwelling (sand-dwelling) fish have specific substrate needs and can
> >> also topple rocks that aren't secured properly by digging the sand out
> >> from under them.
>
> > Yep, so many people don't think about this when they set up a reef tank.
> > Before you stack rock, you should always put base rock on the glass with
> > the sand around it, and then stack the rock on top of the base rock,
> > because many fish and things will dig the sand out of under the rock,
> > and it's not a matter of if, but a matter of when.
>
> I agree with you here.....not too much reef experience but my Mbunas are
> certainly good at destabilising rock structures....I took the lessons
> learnt onto my reef tank....
>
> FWIW my new tank started with 6 green chromis (pretty hardy) - since
> then I have added 2 bengaii cardinals and will be moving my clowns
> across......I'm also planning on a coral beauty and also a yellow tang
> to munch on the algae.....
>
> I'm new to reef (since last Sept) but have kept freshwater for a number
> of years....my philosophy is to tackle problems naturally so if I have
> algae I buy an algae eater.......the clean up crew do a great job on
> some of the stuff but a fish will do it better IMO
>
> Gill
>
>
>
>
>
> > Wayne Sallee
> > Wayne's Pets
> > - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

i was not planning on adding anemones untill my tank has matured a
little. maybe after 6 months-a year.
but, out of curiosity would T5 HO lights be good enough.
george patterson seems skeptical.

i have 2x 10,00k daylights and 2x 460nm actinics.

if they are not good enough, or only good for certain types or
species, it would be good to know.

as an aside, wayne, you mentioned the comment about base rock on my
first post on here over a month ago, and i heeded that advice.
base rock, then live rock, then sand. hope it works!!

i am not planning on switching out any fish. whatever i add should
live its natural course i hope.

[Wayne Sallee]

Basically you want to aim 3 to 6 watts of light per
gallon. 3 being ok to and extent for anemones, but I
would aim closer to 5 watts per gallon. A little
more light does not hurt, and it gives them more
vigor. Also keep in mind that some anemones like
more light than others. A lot of anemones like to
put their foot in the shade, and bloom out into the
light.

You also count actinics as part of the watts per gallon.

Yes T5 HO lights are good lights.


Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Aroon wrote on 6/27/2007 7:08 PM:
> i was not planning on adding anemones untill my tank has matured a
> little. maybe after 6 months-a year.
> but, out of curiosity would T5 HO lights be good enough.
> george patterson seems skeptical.
>
> i have 2x 10,00k daylights and 2x 460nm actinics.
>
> if they are not good enough, or only good for certain types or
> species, it would be good to know.
>
> as an aside, wayne, you mentioned the comment about base rock on my
> first post on here over a month ago, and i heeded that advice.
> base rock, then live rock, then sand. hope it works!!
>
> i am not planning on switching out any fish. whatever i add should
> live its natural course i hope.
>

[Inabón Yunes]

Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in this
forum.
I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you the
necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge people
for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
iy
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
>I understood your post perfectly. You said
>
> "The best
> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."
>
> It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop helps
> encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the fauna in
> the sand bed.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
>> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
>> Read again his question and my answer.
>> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
>> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
>> iy
>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
>>> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters
>>> in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If
>>> one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae
>>> extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef
>>> tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>>>
>>> Wayne Sallee
>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>
>>>
>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
>>>> but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
>>>> in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels
>>>> of nitrates in your tank.
>>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>>>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>>>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
>>>> eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
>>>> starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
>>>> tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them
>>>> back into the cycle.
>>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
>>>> keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>>
>>>> iy
>>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
>>>>>
>>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
>>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
>>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>>
>>

[Wayne Sallee]

You'r an idiot.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
> Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in this
> forum.
> I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you the
> necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge people
> for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
> iy
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I understood your post perfectly. You said
>>
>> "The best
>> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
>> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."
>>
>> It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop helps
>> encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the fauna in
>> the sand bed.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>>
>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
>>> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
>>> Read again his question and my answer.
>>> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
>>> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
>>> iy
>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
>>>> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae eaters
>>>> in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is absurd. If
>>>> one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose of algae
>>>> extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters in the reef
>>>> tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
>>>>> but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
>>>>> in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase levels
>>>>> of nitrates in your tank.
>>>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>>>>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>>>>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is to
>>>>> eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
>>>>> starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
>>>>> tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn them
>>>>> back into the cycle.
>>>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have to
>>>>> keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>>>
>>>>> iy
>>>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first fish
>>>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like to
>>>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby, and
>>>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>>>
>
>

[Inabón Yunes]

Stop talking to the man in the mirror!
iy
"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> You'r an idiot.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
>> Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
>> this forum.
>> I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
>> the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
>> people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
>> iy
>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I understood your post perfectly. You said
>>>
>>> "The best
>>> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
>>> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."
>>>
>>> It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
>>> helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
>>> fauna in the sand bed.
>>>
>>> Wayne Sallee
>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>
>>>
>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
>>>> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
>>>> Read again his question and my answer.
>>>> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
>>>> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
>>>> iy
>>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
>>>>> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
>>>>> eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
>>>>> absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose
>>>>> of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters
>>>>> in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>>>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
>>>>>> but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
>>>>>> in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase
>>>>>> levels of nitrates in your tank.
>>>>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>>>>>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>>>>>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is
>>>>>> to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
>>>>>> starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
>>>>>> tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn
>>>>>> them back into the cycle.
>>>>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
>>>>>> to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>>>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> iy
>>>>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
>>>>>>> fish
>>>>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>>>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>>>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>>>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>>>>
>>

[A. Paul Ing]

Subject says it all

[swarvegorilla]

yep he is.
That sed though
the suggestion of chromis was a good one.
I like the blues myself
lose the odd one to other fish eating them
But they are nice and subtle and compared to damsels they are gents!


"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> You'r an idiot.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
>> Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
>> this forum.
>> I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
>> the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
>> people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
>> iy
>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I understood your post perfectly. You said
>>>
>>> "The best
>>> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
>>> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."
>>>
>>> It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
>>> helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
>>> fauna in the sand bed.
>>>
>>> Wayne Sallee
>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>
>>>
>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
>>>> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
>>>> Read again his question and my answer.
>>>> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
>>>> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
>>>> iy
>>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
>>>>> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
>>>>> eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
>>>>> absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose
>>>>> of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters
>>>>> in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>>>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
>>>>>> but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
>>>>>> in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase
>>>>>> levels of nitrates in your tank.
>>>>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>>>>>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>>>>>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is
>>>>>> to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
>>>>>> starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
>>>>>> tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn
>>>>>> them back into the cycle.
>>>>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
>>>>>> to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>>>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> iy
>>>>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
>>>>>>> fish
>>>>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>>>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>>>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>>>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>>>>
>>

[Wayne Sallee]

Yea, I like the chromis too. They are a lower
aggressive damsel.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


swarvegorilla wrote on 7/2/2007 11:37 AM:
> yep he is.
> That sed though
> the suggestion of chromis was a good one.
> I like the blues myself
> lose the odd one to other fish eating them
> But they are nice and subtle and compared to damsels they are gents!
>
>
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You'r an idiot.
>>
>> Wayne Sallee
>> Wayne's Pets
>>
>>
>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
>>> Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
>>> this forum.
>>> I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
>>> the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
>>> people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
>>> iy
>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> I understood your post perfectly. You said
>>>>
>>>> "The best
>>>> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
>>>> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."
>>>>
>>>> It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
>>>> helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
>>>> fauna in the sand bed.
>>>>
>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
>>>>> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
>>>>> Read again his question and my answer.
>>>>> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
>>>>> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
>>>>> iy
>>>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make the
>>>>>> aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
>>>>>> eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
>>>>>> absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the purpose
>>>>>> of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting algae eaters
>>>>>> in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the algae is absurd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>>>>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was suggested
>>>>>>> but after a few years experimenting with controling nitrates naturaly
>>>>>>> in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute more to increase
>>>>>>> levels of nitrates in your tank.
>>>>>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both toxic,
>>>>>>> then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this stage is when
>>>>>>> nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae. If a Blenny is
>>>>>>> to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to Ammonnia and the cycle
>>>>>>> starts again. The best way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your
>>>>>>> tank is to harvest algae manually not to have the vegetarians turn
>>>>>>> them back into the cycle.
>>>>>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
>>>>>>> to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>>>>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> iy
>>>>>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
>>>>>>>> fish
>>>>>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all my
>>>>>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>>>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>>>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and am
>>>>>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably priced,
>>>>>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>>>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing friom
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>>>>>
>

[Peter Pan]

Chromis are aggrssive towards other fish with similar body styles. I have
one, he leaves my other fish alone, but when I had damels in there my
Chromis killed him, he also killed my blemmy and just about everything else
he could beat up. He does fine in a tank with bigger fish, no so good when
he's the bigger fish


"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> Yea, I like the chromis too. They are a lower aggressive damsel.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> swarvegorilla wrote on 7/2/2007 11:37 AM:
>> yep he is.
>> That sed though
>> the suggestion of chromis was a good one.
>> I like the blues myself
>> lose the odd one to other fish eating them
>> But they are nice and subtle and compared to damsels they are gents!
>>
>>
>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You'r an idiot.
>>>
>>> Wayne Sallee
>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>
>>>
>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/27/2007 10:40 PM:
>>>> Your lack of knowledge on how the Nitrogen cycle works is legendary in
>>>> this forum.
>>>> I am not going to argue with such a person. I felt tempted to give you
>>>> the necessary information to answer your ignorance but, heck, I charge
>>>> people for that. Read more and get out of Wayne's World for a change.
>>>> iy
>>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> I understood your post perfectly. You said
>>>>>
>>>>> "The best
>>>>> way to get rid of unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae
>>>>> manually not to have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle."
>>>>>
>>>>> It's too bad that you have not realized that the algae grazers' poop
>>>>> helps encourage denitrification in the sand bed. And helps to feed the
>>>>> fauna in the sand bed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/26/2007 8:20 PM:
>>>>>> You misunderstood my post, as usual...
>>>>>> Read again his question and my answer.
>>>>>> I know, I know, you are slow but, what can we do?
>>>>>> Actually, read the subject of this post, poor Wayne.
>>>>>> iy
>>>>>> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Having algae eaters in the aquarium is good. The more you can make
>>>>>>> the aquarium work for you, the better. The idea of not putting algae
>>>>>>> eaters in an aquarium so that you can remove the algae yourself is
>>>>>>> absurd. If one wants to set up a refugium set that up for the
>>>>>>> purpose of algae extract, that's find and dandy, but not putting
>>>>>>> algae eaters in the reef tank so that you can manually remove the
>>>>>>> algae is absurd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wayne Sallee
>>>>>>> Wayne's Pets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Inabón Yunes wrote on 6/25/2007 9:29 PM:
>>>>>>>> In following replies to your post the Lawnmower Blenny was
>>>>>>>> suggested but after a few years experimenting with controling
>>>>>>>> nitrates naturaly in my tank, I found that vegetarians contribute
>>>>>>>> more to increase levels of nitrates in your tank.
>>>>>>>> You see, the nitrogen cycle changes ammonnia to nitrites, both
>>>>>>>> toxic, then the nitrites get transformed to nitrates. On this
>>>>>>>> stage is when nitrogen is less toxic and easily absorbed by algae.
>>>>>>>> If a Blenny is to eat the algae, it gets transformed again to
>>>>>>>> Ammonnia and the cycle starts again. The best way to get rid of
>>>>>>>> unwanted nitrogen in your tank is to harvest algae manually not to
>>>>>>>> have the vegetarians turn them back into the cycle.
>>>>>>>> Blennies are great fish and will eat almost any flake food. I have
>>>>>>>> to keep a refugium where I extract the algae myself.
>>>>>>>> Another sturdy species is the Clarks Clownfish.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> iy
>>>>>>>> "Aroon" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ups.com...
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was wondering whether anyone has a suggestion for a cool first
>>>>>>>>> fish
>>>>>>>>> to add to my sal****er tank.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is my first SW tank, having kept small and big fw tanks all
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> life. Tank cycled for a month, and i started added critters last
>>>>>>>>> week.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The current inhabitats are hermit crabs (10 red legged), snails (1
>>>>>>>>> turbo and 5 bumble bee), and an Emerald crab.
>>>>>>>>> I had a surge of algae a week after my tank finished cycling, and
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>> trying to get this under control with these cleaners. I would like
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> add fish soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My near-term goal (next 6-months) is to add 1 clown fish, 1 goby,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> 1 six line wrasse.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be a good idea to start with a reasonably
>>>>>>>>> priced,
>>>>>>>>> hardy fish to start.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have 50 lbs of live rock in a 58g. all my nitrogen params are
>>>>>>>>> stable, and where they should be.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Temp is 82, ph 8.4, alk 2.6, calcium 450.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you have any suggestions, I would be interested in hearing
>>>>>>>>> friom
>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Aroon
>>>>>>>>>
>>

[Gill Passman]

Peter Pan wrote:
> Chromis are aggrssive towards other fish with similar body styles. I have
> one, he leaves my other fish alone, but when I had damels in there my
> Chromis killed him, he also killed my blemmy and just about everything else
> he could beat up. He does fine in a tank with bigger fish, no so good when
> he's the bigger fish
>
>
Interesting as all my research indicated that they are a peaceful fish
but did say best kept in a school of at least 3 - I've got 6. The only
other occupants are 2 Benggai Cardinals and they pretty much ignore
eachother. I wonder if yours was aggressive as he is solitary? Of course
mine may become more aggressive as I add more fish.

Just a thought
Gill

[A. Paul Ing]

Peter pan the peter licker has his ****ing head up his ass as usual.
Don't have a ****ing clue about what the hell he is talking about,
Just like ****y Pants Pszemol and Mr. Reef Wayne Salle the
dumb****........On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:33:25 +0100, Gill Passman
> wrote:

<<>>Peter Pan wrote:
<<>>> Chromis are aggrssive towards other fish with similar body styles. I have
<<>>> one, he leaves my other fish alone, but when I had damels in there my
<<>>> Chromis killed him, he also killed my blemmy and just about everything else
<<>>> he could beat up. He does fine in a tank with bigger fish, no so good when
<<>>> he's the bigger fish
<<>>>
<<>>>
<<>>Interesting as all my research indicated that they are a peaceful fish
<<>>but did say best kept in a school of at least 3 - I've got 6. The only
<<>>other occupants are 2 Benggai Cardinals and they pretty much ignore
<<>>eachother. I wonder if yours was aggressive as he is solitary? Of course
<<>>mine may become more aggressive as I add more fish.
<<>>
<<>>Just a thought
<<>>Gill

[A. Paul Ing]

Who really cares Kurt.Your as much of a dumbass as the rest of the
idiots in this group.......I bet yu belong to yet another of Gills
hate groups huh? Your probably second in command to Peter who is the
head pecker checker.


On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:41:14 -0400, KurtG
> wrote:

<<>>Gill Passman of Hate Groups INC. , LLC wrote:
<<>>> a peaceful fish
<<>>> but did say best kept in a school of at least 3 - I've got 6.
<<>>
<<>>I think it's hit or miss on the peaceful schooling fish story. Some
<<>>people get along with them, but others have their chromis dwindle to
<<>>only one or two, and they can be aggressive with tank mates. It seems
<<>>to help if there are semi-aggressive fish in the tank which forces them
<<>>to huddle together and not go into annihilation mode.
<<>>
<<>>The only thing they have going for them is that they are cheap. I know
<<>>a wholesaler that sells them for $1/piece.

[KurtG]

Gill Passman wrote:
> a peaceful fish
> but did say best kept in a school of at least 3 - I've got 6.

I think it's hit or miss on the peaceful schooling fish story. Some
people get along with them, but others have their chromis dwindle to
only one or two, and they can be aggressive with tank mates. It seems
to help if there are semi-aggressive fish in the tank which forces them
to huddle together and not go into annihilation mode.

The only thing they have going for them is that they are cheap. I know
a wholesaler that sells them for $1/piece.

[Gill Passman]

KurtG wrote:

>
> I think it's hit or miss on the peaceful schooling fish story. Some
> people get along with them, but others have their chromis dwindle to
> only one or two, and they can be aggressive with tank mates. It seems
> to help if there are semi-aggressive fish in the tank which forces them
> to huddle together and not go into annihilation mode.
>
> The only thing they have going for them is that they are cheap. I know
> a wholesaler that sells them for $1/piece.

I might be being simplistic here but why not replace the losses and
maintain the school as presumably they have already been factored into
the stocking equation? I can see how a solitary fish might turn on it's
tank mates. Obviously, introducing adult chromis into the mix might end
in tears with a potential competition to be alpha fish but surely there
wouldn't be so much of an issue with adding smaller fish into the school
that will naturally take their place at the bottom of the pecking order?

But just me making a supposition based on keeping freshwater fish
(cichlids in particular) rather than being based on my limited
experience with chromis.

Gill

[Wayne Sallee]

Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.

Aint fish psychology fun :-)

I had a pair of clarky clowns. I decided to add a
smaller one. Then there was the bigger one, medium
one, and the smaller one (just added). The medium
one did not like the smaller one at all, and was
very agressive to it. The bigger one (female) did
not have any problem with the smaller one. As time
went on, the big one started liking the smaller one,
and the medium one was getting more and more
agressive towards the smaller one, then the bigger
one started really liking the smaller one, and was
chasing the medium one away, and then eventualy
killed the medium one, and paired up with the
smaller one.

I like blue fined damsels, they get big and dark
dark blue. People that have two of them in a tank
will usually have problems with them picking on each
other, and the other tank mates, but often when they
remove one of them, everything is fine.

There are just so many factors that determine how
well fish will get along, including individual
temperament.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne's Pets


Gill Passman wrote on 7/3/2007 2:19 PM:
> I might be being simplistic here but why not replace the losses and
> maintain the school as presumably they have already been factored into
> the stocking equation? I can see how a solitary fish might turn on it's
> tank mates. Obviously, introducing adult chromis into the mix might end
> in tears with a potential competition to be alpha fish but surely there
> wouldn't be so much of an issue with adding smaller fish into the school
> that will naturally take their place at the bottom of the pecking order?

[swarvegorilla]

All that aside.
I have plenty of damsel and wrasse and surgeon and blenny etc
My chromis are the best behaved fish of all.
All reef animals have a mean streak, it's how they survive such a hostile
environment.
With plenty of room and territory to school around, chromis are peaceful eye
candy.
keeping them solo is kinda cruel and at the very least means ya miss out on
watching the school interact.
fish compat sure is confusing sometimes.....





"Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
...
> Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.
>
> Aint fish psychology fun :-)
>
> I had a pair of clarky clowns. I decided to add a smaller one. Then there
> was the bigger one, medium one, and the smaller one (just added). The
> medium one did not like the smaller one at all, and was very agressive to
> it. The bigger one (female) did not have any problem with the smaller one.
> As time went on, the big one started liking the smaller one, and the
> medium one was getting more and more agressive towards the smaller one,
> then the bigger one started really liking the smaller one, and was chasing
> the medium one away, and then eventualy killed the medium one, and paired
> up with the smaller one.
>
> I like blue fined damsels, they get big and dark dark blue. People that
> have two of them in a tank will usually have problems with them picking on
> each other, and the other tank mates, but often when they remove one of
> them, everything is fine.
>
> There are just so many factors that determine how well fish will get
> along, including individual temperament.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne's Pets
>
>
> Gill Passman wrote on 7/3/2007 2:19 PM:
>> I might be being simplistic here but why not replace the losses and
>> maintain the school as presumably they have already been factored into
>> the stocking equation? I can see how a solitary fish might turn on it's
>> tank mates. Obviously, introducing adult chromis into the mix might end
>> in tears with a potential competition to be alpha fish but surely there
>> wouldn't be so much of an issue with adding smaller fish into the school
>> that will naturally take their place at the bottom of the pecking order?

[RubenD]

I like damsels, they are very energetic, however the manage to kill
anything they could in my first tank. Even bite coral.

If you plan to have aggressive fish, it is a great option. If not,
anything else must be bigger than them.

I had a coral beauty which was twice the size of my meanest damsell, he
still managed to fatally hurt the CB.
Not to mention the Pajama Cardinal which ended up with no fins and half of
his body.

FYI, I got another CB put it in a plastic bottle as bait. The damsell when
in and the CB out.

Damsel is no longer in the tank, I released him to the ocean and pull the
chain....gargle...gargle...

At leat that's what they say/did in NEMO, lol.

My advise, get pretty not aggresive fish.

Ruben


"swarvegorilla" > wrote in message
u...
> All that aside.
> I have plenty of damsel and wrasse and surgeon and blenny etc
> My chromis are the best behaved fish of all.
> All reef animals have a mean streak, it's how they survive such a hostile
> environment.
> With plenty of room and territory to school around, chromis are peaceful
eye
> candy.
> keeping them solo is kinda cruel and at the very least means ya miss out
on
> watching the school interact.
> fish compat sure is confusing sometimes.....
>
>
>
>
>
> "Wayne Sallee" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.
> >
> > Aint fish psychology fun :-)
> >
> > I had a pair of clarky clowns. I decided to add a smaller one. Then
there
> > was the bigger one, medium one, and the smaller one (just added). The
> > medium one did not like the smaller one at all, and was very agressive
to
> > it. The bigger one (female) did not have any problem with the smaller
one.
> > As time went on, the big one started liking the smaller one, and the
> > medium one was getting more and more agressive towards the smaller one,
> > then the bigger one started really liking the smaller one, and was
chasing
> > the medium one away, and then eventualy killed the medium one, and
paired
> > up with the smaller one.
> >
> > I like blue fined damsels, they get big and dark dark blue. People that
> > have two of them in a tank will usually have problems with them picking
on
> > each other, and the other tank mates, but often when they remove one of
> > them, everything is fine.
> >
> > There are just so many factors that determine how well fish will get
> > along, including individual temperament.
> >
> > Wayne Sallee
> > Wayne's Pets
> >
> >
> > Gill Passman wrote on 7/3/2007 2:19 PM:
> >> I might be being simplistic here but why not replace the losses and
> >> maintain the school as presumably they have already been factored into
> >> the stocking equation? I can see how a solitary fish might turn on it's
> >> tank mates. Obviously, introducing adult chromis into the mix might end
> >> in tears with a potential competition to be alpha fish but surely there
> >> wouldn't be so much of an issue with adding smaller fish into the
school
> >> that will naturally take their place at the bottom of the pecking
order?
>
>

[KurtG]

Wayne Sallee wrote:
> I like blue fined damsels, they get big and dark dark blue.

I had to remove one. It was beating up my mandarin on a daily basis.
After a month, I put him back in and he settled down.

As you say, midnight blue. It's amazing that it will turn back to a
silver color when in a tank with white base rock.

--Kurt