Re: how long before severum eggs hatch?

[rmc]

"Ukyou Kuonji" > wrote in message
...
> my severums spawned about 5 days ago and 2 days ago they seemed to
have
> moved the eggs elsewhere, out of my sight. the couple still is very
> territorial about the spot, they dug a large pit nearby, but I can't
> discover any eggs or fry... I'm afraid to lift the wood to take a
look, so
> I wondered if any of you guys had a clue of what's going on.
>

--
If the parents are still guarding an area, the chances are you already
have fry, and lots of them. They would be extremely hard to see
unless they move. Give it a few more days and the fry should start to
become adventurous and move around.

Mark
http://www.cichliddomain.com

[Mephistopheles]

Actually, it was discovered in the last several years that Severums are,
in fact, larvophile mouthbrooders. (See "American Cichlids II: Large
Cichlids", by Wolfgang Staeck and Horst Linke, p. 123 (1995)). They had
been previously assumed to be pure substrate spawners. Hence, I would
surmise that the "wrigglers", as Jim calls them, are in the mouths of one
of the parents. I believe they would be released as soon as they become
free swimming.

Meph

"Ukyou Kuonji" > wrote in
:

> ah, thanks, this is the first time for me to be breeding fish that
> spawn on open substrates (is this the english word for it) instead of
> in holes. with eg kribs I'd just see a cloud of fry swimming all of a
> sudden :) !
>
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:19:53 -0400, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> They wouldn't have moved the eggs, but they will move the fry as they
>> hatch. That pit (there may be others) is the first area they would
>> place the fry.
>
>> The fry will be up and swimming in another 4-5 days. The cloud will
>> be very visible and subject to predation by tankmates.
>

[Jim Brown]

I don't have that reference material, so I can't read up further at this
time.
I do remember reading several articles about this mouthbrooding behaviour,
with the end presumption being that this fish is possibly in the
transitional stage between substrate spawner and mouthbrooder.
Of the numerous spawns of them I have witnessed, read about, and discussed
over the years, not one has supported that mouthbrooding behaviour. I am
not saying it doesn't happen, just that it may be a bit of a 'lost art' in
aquarium raised fish.
The original poster may give us more insight in how that particular pair is
doing.

Jim

Mephistopheles > wrote in message
rthlink.net...
> Actually, it was discovered in the last several years that Severums are,
> in fact, larvophile mouthbrooders. (See "American Cichlids II: Large
> Cichlids", by Wolfgang Staeck and Horst Linke, p. 123 (1995)). They had
> been previously assumed to be pure substrate spawners. Hence, I would
> surmise that the "wrigglers", as Jim calls them, are in the mouths of one
> of the parents. I believe they would be released as soon as they become
> free swimming.
>
> Meph
>
> "Ukyou Kuonji" > wrote in
> :
>
> > ah, thanks, this is the first time for me to be breeding fish that
> > spawn on open substrates (is this the english word for it) instead of
> > in holes. with eg kribs I'd just see a cloud of fry swimming all of a
> > sudden :) !
> >
> > On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:19:53 -0400, Jim Brown wrote:
> >
> >> They wouldn't have moved the eggs, but they will move the fry as they
> >> hatch. That pit (there may be others) is the first area they would
> >> place the fry.
> >
> >> The fry will be up and swimming in another 4-5 days. The cloud will
> >> be very visible and subject to predation by tankmates.
> >
>

[rmc]

"Ukyou Kuonji" > wrote in message
...
> still haven't seen any fry, neither have I noticed any clue that the
> parents are carrying them in their mouths. I'll take a good look
tomorrow
> (lights are out now), I do know that they change shifts once in a
while
> and that only one parent at a time goes eating when I feed them
(they don't
> trade places during feeding). the pit's getting larger.
>
> my camera is horrible, but these are some pics:
> http://www.seeraamuun.net/fish/PIC0012.JPG <= the pair on the left
side
> (female in the back)
> http://www.seeraamuun.net/fish/PIC0059.JPG <= the spot (pit is
deeper and
> slightly more back/right now, eggs were on the shade side of the
wood)
>
> I haven't taken pictures since spawning yet as I wasn't able to
shoot the
> eggs properly, perhaps I should make one of the current situation.
>
> as someone said it might be something uncommon to aquarium raised
> specimens, so what do you think about mine? I detest aquarium bred
races
> (like gold severums), but my cousin's look quite different and some
I
> spotted in a store nearby looked much lighter than mine, with an
orange
> anal fin. I've got a book of Pierre Brichard about all Tanganyika
cichlids
> known at that time ('92 I believe), it contained an interesting
section
> about tropheus and the whereabouts of its local varieties. is
something
> like that available for severums too? I'm getting curious about how
> natural my fish are and which kind they belong to :) !


--

There are a number of Severum-type fish in the Heros genus. Heros
Appendiculatus has bright orange fins and is often times mistaken for
a Severum. There is a new Severum featured on the cover of the latest
TFH magazine. I believe they call it sp. Red Shoulder. I have a wild
pair and they are a very nice looking fish.

Mark
http://www.cichliddomain.com

[Ukyou Kuonji]

any clue what type mine are :) ?

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 21:45:00 +0000, rmc wrote:

>
> There are a number of Severum-type fish in the Heros genus. Heros
> Appendiculatus has bright orange fins and is often times mistaken for
> a Severum.

[rmc]

"Ukyou Kuonji" > wrote in message
...
> any clue what type mine are :) ?

--
The links to your photos did not work.

Mark
http://www.cichliddomain.com

[Mephistopheles]

"Jim Brown" > wrote in
:

> I don't have that reference material, so I can't read up further at
> this time.
> I do remember reading several articles about this mouthbrooding
> behaviour, with the end presumption being that this fish is possibly
> in the transitional stage between substrate spawner and mouthbrooder.
> Of the numerous spawns of them I have witnessed, read about, and
> discussed over the years, not one has supported that mouthbrooding
> behaviour.

I have had many severum spawns and have seen nothing to rule it out OR
in. I think it is the kind of thing that is harder to observe than you
would expect--which is why it took so long to discover. Did you see
anything that would tend to rule it out? E.g. a mass of "wrigglers" in a
pit for an extended period? (By the way, my text says the phenomenon was
discovered by very close observation of fish in aquarium conditions.)
This whole thread would seem to support the mouthbrooding hypothesis to
the extent that the eggs/fry seem to be mysteriously "missing".

Meph

> I am not saying it doesn't happen, just that it may be a
> bit of a 'lost art' in aquarium raised fish.
> The original poster may give us more insight in how that particular
> pair is doing.
>
> Jim
>
> Mephistopheles > wrote in
> message
> rthlink.net...
>> Actually, it was discovered in the last several years that Severums
>> are, in fact, larvophile mouthbrooders. (See "American Cichlids II:
>> Large Cichlids", by Wolfgang Staeck and Horst Linke, p. 123 (1995)).
>> They had been previously assumed to be pure substrate spawners.
>> Hence, I would surmise that the "wrigglers", as Jim calls them, are
>> in the mouths of one of the parents. I believe they would be
>> released as soon as they become free swimming.
>>
>> Meph
>>
>> "Ukyou Kuonji" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> > ah, thanks, this is the first time for me to be breeding fish that
>> > spawn on open substrates (is this the english word for it) instead
>> > of in holes. with eg kribs I'd just see a cloud of fry swimming all
>> > of a sudden :) !
>> >
>> > On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:19:53 -0400, Jim Brown wrote:
>> >
>> >> They wouldn't have moved the eggs, but they will move the fry as
>> >> they hatch. That pit (there may be others) is the first area they
>> >> would place the fry.
>> >
>> >> The fry will be up and swimming in another 4-5 days. The cloud
>> >> will be very visible and subject to predation by tankmates.
>> >
>>
>
>

[Ukyou Kuonji]

the fry is there :) ! and the parents are SO protective now :) !