Using a linear air pump in a wet dry sump system for return...

[The Madd Hatter]

Ok, the title sucks....

I am working on my multiple tank system (6 tanks on a rack)... I just
bought a Medo AC0602 Linear piston pump to run my sponge filters and
everything else in 6 to 8 tanks that are between 14" to 18" in depth..
This pump is powerful enough that even if I ran 15-20 outlets at those
depths, I'd have to bleed air off to avoid turning my tanks into mini
hurricanes. Here is my idea... The tanks are all drilled w/
overflows.. I was planning to filter them with a common trickle style
sump system. This type of system usually has a water pump to return
the water back to the tanks.. I want to use my air pump. I plan to
make the return pipe a vertical pvc pipe (around 2" ID) w/ a hole near
the bottom to attach my air line... I figure this will function
similar to a lift tube in an undergravel filtration system, whereas
the water will get pulled up the tube, right to the top where I will
have a connecter routing it through another pipe w/ ball valves to
dump water back into the tanks... I realize this wouldn't work w/ a
conventional air pump, but i tested the lift tube idea in my buddy's
180GAL tank by standing up a 5' piece of 2" ID piping in his tank,
with my air pump output tube (1/2") shoved through it... As soon as we
turned the pump on, the water gysered a good 3' into the air... We
only left it plugged in for a split second.... though I think it would
have gone over 5' if left longer...

I figure the pressure will be there.... What I want to know is, will
this work? Does anyone know of anyone using a system like this? Good
idea, bad idea? Any ideas welcome at this point!\

thanx

[Jim Brown]

The Madd Hatter > wrote in message
...
> Ok, the title sucks....
>
> I am working on my multiple tank system (6 tanks on a rack)... I just
> bought a Medo AC0602 Linear piston pump to run my sponge filters and
> everything else in 6 to 8 tanks that are between 14" to 18" in depth..
> This pump is powerful enough that even if I ran 15-20 outlets at those
> depths, I'd have to bleed air off to avoid turning my tanks into mini
> hurricanes. Here is my idea... The tanks are all drilled w/
> overflows.. I was planning to filter them with a common trickle style
> sump system. This type of system usually has a water pump to return
> the water back to the tanks.. I want to use my air pump. I plan to
> make the return pipe a vertical pvc pipe (around 2" ID) w/ a hole near
> the bottom to attach my air line... I figure this will function
> similar to a lift tube in an undergravel filtration system, whereas
> the water will get pulled up the tube, right to the top where I will
> have a connecter routing it through another pipe w/ ball valves to
> dump water back into the tanks... I realize this wouldn't work w/ a
> conventional air pump, but i tested the lift tube idea in my buddy's
> 180GAL tank by standing up a 5' piece of 2" ID piping in his tank,
> with my air pump output tube (1/2") shoved through it... As soon as we
> turned the pump on, the water gysered a good 3' into the air... We
> only left it plugged in for a split second.... though I think it would
> have gone over 5' if left longer...
>
> I figure the pressure will be there.... What I want to know is, will
> this work? Does anyone know of anyone using a system like this? Good
> idea, bad idea? Any ideas welcome at this point!\
>
> thanx
>

Obviously, a pump with that much pressure was probably a bit of overkill,
but you seem to know that now.
Provided the air will do all your tanks, the option should work. The
downsides:
cost of pump and electricity are high when compared to water pumps
adequately sized.
There may be a lot of splash at the return, so consider an elbow or 'U'
fitting to minimize.
To get full benefit of the air volumes, you might want to consider larger
tubing. Even then, I would consider rigid piping to better handle the
pressure. You might also want a side pipe higher than the tank's surface to
eliminate any overflow problems if a power outage or pipe separation occurs.
What you are doing is just a very large version of the old HOT air driven
filters that were fairly popular a number of years ago.
Just think it out, maximize the air supply tubing, and consider damage
control.

Jim

[Racf]

"The Madd Hatter" > wrote in message
...
> Ok, the title sucks....
>
> I am working on my multiple tank system (6 tanks on a rack)... I just
> bought a Medo AC0602 Linear piston pump to run my sponge filters and
> everything else in 6 to 8 tanks that are between 14" to 18" in depth..
> This pump is powerful enough that even if I ran 15-20 outlets at those
> depths, I'd have to bleed air off to avoid turning my tanks into mini
> hurricanes. Here is my idea... The tanks are all drilled w/
> overflows.. I was planning to filter them with a common trickle style
> sump system. This type of system usually has a water pump to return
> the water back to the tanks.. I want to use my air pump. I plan to
> make the return pipe a vertical pvc pipe (around 2" ID) w/ a hole near
> the bottom to attach my air line... I figure this will function
> similar to a lift tube in an undergravel filtration system, whereas
> the water will get pulled up the tube, right to the top where I will
> have a connecter routing it through another pipe w/ ball valves to
> dump water back into the tanks... I realize this wouldn't work w/ a
> conventional air pump, but i tested the lift tube idea in my buddy's
> 180GAL tank by standing up a 5' piece of 2" ID piping in his tank,
> with my air pump output tube (1/2") shoved through it... As soon as we
> turned the pump on, the water gysered a good 3' into the air... We
> only left it plugged in for a split second.... though I think it would
> have gone over 5' if left longer...
>
> I figure the pressure will be there.... What I want to know is, will
> this work? Does anyone know of anyone using a system like this? Good
> idea, bad idea? Any ideas welcome at this point!\
>
> thanx
>

Sure it will work....you already have the pump and its going to pump
your water or you bleed off all the extra....

It would of course be in your interest to have a spare....
These new linear air pumps are cool......

[The Madd Hatter]

Mid posted......

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 12:24:20 -0400, "Jim Brown" >
wrote:

>
>The Madd Hatter > wrote in message
...
>> Ok, the title sucks....
>>
>> I am working on my multiple tank system (6 tanks on a rack)... I just
>> bought a Medo AC0602 Linear piston pump to run my sponge filters and
>> everything else in 6 to 8 tanks that are between 14" to 18" in depth..
>> This pump is powerful enough that even if I ran 15-20 outlets at those
>> depths, I'd have to bleed air off to avoid turning my tanks into mini
>> hurricanes. Here is my idea... The tanks are all drilled w/
>> overflows.. I was planning to filter them with a common trickle style
>> sump system. This type of system usually has a water pump to return
>> the water back to the tanks.. I want to use my air pump. I plan to
>> make the return pipe a vertical pvc pipe (around 2" ID) w/ a hole near
>> the bottom to attach my air line... I figure this will function
>> similar to a lift tube in an undergravel filtration system, whereas
>> the water will get pulled up the tube, right to the top where I will
>> have a connecter routing it through another pipe w/ ball valves to
>> dump water back into the tanks... I realize this wouldn't work w/ a
>> conventional air pump, but i tested the lift tube idea in my buddy's
>> 180GAL tank by standing up a 5' piece of 2" ID piping in his tank,
>> with my air pump output tube (1/2") shoved through it... As soon as we
>> turned the pump on, the water gysered a good 3' into the air... We
>> only left it plugged in for a split second.... though I think it would
>> have gone over 5' if left longer...
>>
>> I figure the pressure will be there.... What I want to know is, will
>> this work? Does anyone know of anyone using a system like this? Good
>> idea, bad idea? Any ideas welcome at this point!\
>>
>> thanx
>>
>
>Obviously, a pump with that much pressure was probably a bit of overkill,
>but you seem to know that now.

The guy told me but I had "Tim the Tool Man" syndrome.... He offered
me a smaller one, but I couldn't resist....

>Provided the air will do all your tanks, the option should work. The
>downsides:
>cost of pump and electricity are high when compared to water pumps
>adequately sized.

I had a feeling it would be... On the other hand, I would have been
running the smaller piston pump + a water pump of atleast 900GPH to
1000gph (the top tanks are pretty high so I have to compensate for the
head)... I'm hoping this will be cheaper then that combination, but I
might be mistaken since I've no idea how much power the water pump
would require... This pump is rated at around 54 Watts I think...

>There may be a lot of splash at the return, so consider an elbow or 'U'
>fitting to minimize.

I plan to have an elbow at the top leading to a horizontal pipe w/
ball valves or check valves over each of the three top tanks to
facilitate return..

>To get full benefit of the air volumes, you might want to consider larger
>tubing. Even then, I would consider rigid piping to better handle the
>pressure.

The output on the pump is pretty wide... (i think its 1/4" or more but
i'm too lazy to go to the garage to check)... The guy I bought it from
have an identical one w/ the appropriate sized flex tube leading
directly to a wall mounted pvc conduit pipe approx. 6 to 7' long... He
had it drilled at regular intervals w/ air valves inserted. From this
point he had regular airlines from the LFS leading to his various
UGF's and sponge filters. ( I think he had like 15-18 things running
and he still had to bleed it off)... Even he admitted that he did a
fairly sloppy job w/ a lot of the connections, but despite enough
leaks to qualify as a Ford, it was pushing his 180 GAL and atleast 5
other tanks quite well... Should I use wider airlines all the way in,
or can I use the regular stuff after the pvc?


You might also want a side pipe higher than the tank's surface to
>eliminate any overflow problems if a power outage or pipe separation occurs.

I can't picture that... Could you elaborate please :-)

>What you are doing is just a very large version of the old HOT air driven
>filters that were fairly popular a number of years ago.

I'll look them up... I'm, a fairly recent addict.... er.... I meant
HOBBYIST!!!!

>Just think it out, maximize the air supply tubing, and consider damage
>control.

I'm puttin it all in the garage!!! (Next project is to insulate around
the whole system!

Thanx Jim! As always, you are a veritable font of wisdom! How are you
faring these days? Have you got your systems up to snuff again?
Cheers!

Madd Hatter

>
>Jim
>

[The Madd Hatter]

This project keeps getting bigger and bigger! Now my Dad and I are
thinking about walling and insulating about 8' of the garage.. This
way I can move the majority of my tanks out there (that brings it to
16).. This will make water changes alot easier, and I can eliminate
alot of the extra air pumps that are running around the house, and
free up some living space...

In this case we will only wall in the portion of the garage that falls
upder the room upstairs, so we know the ceiling will be insulated. My
biggest concern w/ regards to insulation would be the floor... Would
rubber matting help?

This is in the shoot the **** stage, so please shoot it to **** if it
looks unfeasible, cuz I only like seeing frozen fish at the grocery
store...

hang in there Jim, recovery is a painful process, but we're all here
for you if you need us...



On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:40 -0400, "Jim Brown" >
wrote:

>
>> Mid posted......
>>
>>
>> I had a feeling it would be... On the other hand, I would have been
>> running the smaller piston pump + a water pump of atleast 900GPH to
>> 1000gph (the top tanks are pretty high so I have to compensate for the
>> head)... I'm hoping this will be cheaper then that combination, but I
>> might be mistaken since I've no idea how much power the water pump
>> would require... This pump is rated at around 54 Watts I think...
>
>I am a fan of the MagDrive pumps. They push the water well and are low
>watt. But at 54 watts, your pump is not too bad.
>
>>
>> >There may be a lot of splash at the return, so consider an elbow or 'U'
>> >fitting to minimize.
>>
>> I plan to have an elbow at the top leading to a horizontal pipe w/
>> ball valves or check valves over each of the three top tanks to
>> facilitate return..
>>
>> >To get full benefit of the air volumes, you might want to consider larger
>> >tubing. Even then, I would consider rigid piping to better handle the
>> >pressure.
>>
>> The output on the pump is pretty wide... (i think its 1/4" or more but
>> i'm too lazy to go to the garage to check)... The guy I bought it from
>> have an identical one w/ the appropriate sized flex tube leading
>> directly to a wall mounted pvc conduit pipe approx. 6 to 7' long... He
>> had it drilled at regular intervals w/ air valves inserted. From this
>> point he had regular airlines from the LFS leading to his various
>> UGF's and sponge filters. ( I think he had like 15-18 things running
>> and he still had to bleed it off)... Even he admitted that he did a
>> fairly sloppy job w/ a lot of the connections, but despite enough
>> leaks to qualify as a Ford, it was pushing his 180 GAL and atleast 5
>> other tanks quite well... Should I use wider airlines all the way in,
>> or can I use the regular stuff after the pvc?
>>
>>
>> You might also want a side pipe higher than the tank's surface to
>> >eliminate any overflow problems if a power outage or pipe separation
>occurs.
>>
>> I can't picture that... Could you elaborate please :-)
>
>I was thinking that instead of drilling the airline attachment to the uplift
>tube, make the riser a 'U' shape. Attach the air to a nipple on the cap,
>and the capped air pipe will provide some buffer if the air hose pops off.
>Just a quick thought on my part. As I said, think it out and consider
>problems before they happen.
>
>>
>> >What you are doing is just a very large version of the old HOT air driven
>> >filters that were fairly popular a number of years ago.
>>
>> I'll look them up... I'm, a fairly recent addict.... er.... I meant
>> HOBBYIST!!!!
>>
>> >Just think it out, maximize the air supply tubing, and consider damage
>> >control.
>>
>> I'm puttin it all in the garage!!! (Next project is to insulate around
>> the whole system!
>
>In the garage?? You will need a lot of insulation to run it any length into
>the house. It's not that warm in Mississauga.
>
>>
>> Thanx Jim! As always, you are a veritable font of wisdom! How are you
>> faring these days? Have you got your systems up to snuff again?
>> Cheers!
>
>Thanks. Still struggling to get back at it. Still doing guppy shows, and
>have a speaking engagement in Kitchener in September. Would be nice if they
>could get my medications sorted out. Not easy coming back.
>
>Jim
>
>

[The Madd Hatter]

Mid Posted

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:41:14 -0400, "Jim Brown" >
wrote:

>
>The Madd Hatter > wrote in message
...
>> This project keeps getting bigger and bigger! Now my Dad and I are
>> thinking about walling and insulating about 8' of the garage.. This
>> way I can move the majority of my tanks out there (that brings it to
>> 16).. This will make water changes alot easier, and I can eliminate
>> alot of the extra air pumps that are running around the house, and
>> free up some living space...
>>
>> In this case we will only wall in the portion of the garage that falls
>> upder the room upstairs, so we know the ceiling will be insulated. My
>> biggest concern w/ regards to insulation would be the floor... Would
>> rubber matting help?
>>
>> This is in the shoot the **** stage, so please shoot it to **** if it
>> looks unfeasible, cuz I only like seeing frozen fish at the grocery
>> store...
>>
>
>A few things to consider:
>Is there a dedicated circuit for the electricity you will be using? Might
>be worth having another circuit or two strung out for the fish room.

I'm not sure... there are 3 or 4 outlets in there... The one closest
to where the fish will go is also shared by the Central Vac.. the
other major electronic item in there is the Garage Door opener. I'll
ask my Dad, since he is an Industrial Electrician..

>Is the floor level? I imagine it has a concrete floor, sloped so winter
>melt will run out. There may be a need for a levelled sub-floor with
>insulation.

The Floor slopes towards the driveway.. How would I go about making
this sub-floor w/ insulation? would it be easier to level the rack
using wood or some other material?


>Water supply and drain? You probably have a tap in the garage, but where
>will the waste water go?

The tap in the garage is right next to the tanks... it is cold only
though.. I don't thin there'll be a probem because I have a door
leading into my laundry close by and I can hook up a hose from there.
Waste water can be siphoned through the side door onto the grass or
right onto the driveway, i guess.


>What about heat? You might be best with a very well insulated room with a
>space heater. I tried an aquarium one winter in an unheated garage, to
>winterize some native fish. Even with a good heater, it barely kept the
>water from freezing.

I was planning to use a space heater in there.. I figured it will be a
very small room, and if itas sufficiently insulated, a regular space
heater should keep it heated quite welll. Would I still need to heat
the tanks too?

>All things considered, it might be easier to build a fishroom behind the
>garage, so at least there will be some sun to help warm it up.

Behind the garage?? What do you mean?

>Definitely a project that could be done once all the bugs are worked out.
>

ALot of bugs at this stage!


Thanx Jim!

>Jim
>
>
>

[Racf]

"The Madd Hatter" > wrote in message
...
> This project keeps getting bigger and bigger! Now my Dad and I are
> thinking about walling and insulating about 8' of the garage.. This
> way I can move the majority of my tanks out there (that brings it to
> 16).. This will make water changes alot easier, and I can eliminate
> alot of the extra air pumps that are running around the house, and
> free up some living space...
>
> In this case we will only wall in the portion of the garage that falls
> upder the room upstairs, so we know the ceiling will be insulated. My
> biggest concern w/ regards to insulation would be the floor... Would
> rubber matting help?
>
> This is in the shoot the **** stage, so please shoot it to **** if it
> looks unfeasible, cuz I only like seeing frozen fish at the grocery
> store...
>
> hang in there Jim, recovery is a painful process, but we're all here
> for you if you need us...
>
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 12:46:40 -0400, "Jim Brown" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Mid posted......
> >>
> >>
> >> I had a feeling it would be... On the other hand, I would have been
> >> running the smaller piston pump + a water pump of atleast 900GPH to
> >> 1000gph (the top tanks are pretty high so I have to compensate for
the
> >> head)... I'm hoping this will be cheaper then that combination, but
I
> >> might be mistaken since I've no idea how much power the water pump
> >> would require... This pump is rated at around 54 Watts I think...
> >
> >I am a fan of the MagDrive pumps. They push the water well and are
low
> >watt. But at 54 watts, your pump is not too bad.
> >
> >>
> >> >There may be a lot of splash at the return, so consider an elbow
or 'U'
> >> >fitting to minimize.
> >>
> >> I plan to have an elbow at the top leading to a horizontal pipe w/
> >> ball valves or check valves over each of the three top tanks to
> >> facilitate return..
> >>
> >> >To get full benefit of the air volumes, you might want to consider
larger
> >> >tubing. Even then, I would consider rigid piping to better handle
the
> >> >pressure.
> >>
> >> The output on the pump is pretty wide... (i think its 1/4" or more
but
> >> i'm too lazy to go to the garage to check)... The guy I bought it
from
> >> have an identical one w/ the appropriate sized flex tube leading
> >> directly to a wall mounted pvc conduit pipe approx. 6 to 7' long...
He
> >> had it drilled at regular intervals w/ air valves inserted. From
this
> >> point he had regular airlines from the LFS leading to his various
> >> UGF's and sponge filters. ( I think he had like 15-18 things
running
> >> and he still had to bleed it off)... Even he admitted that he did a
> >> fairly sloppy job w/ a lot of the connections, but despite enough
> >> leaks to qualify as a Ford, it was pushing his 180 GAL and atleast
5
> >> other tanks quite well... Should I use wider airlines all the way
in,
> >> or can I use the regular stuff after the pvc?
> >>
> >>
> >> You might also want a side pipe higher than the tank's surface to
> >> >eliminate any overflow problems if a power outage or pipe
separation
> >occurs.
> >>
> >> I can't picture that... Could you elaborate please :-)
> >
> >I was thinking that instead of drilling the airline attachment to the
uplift
> >tube, make the riser a 'U' shape. Attach the air to a nipple on the
cap,
> >and the capped air pipe will provide some buffer if the air hose pops
off.
> >Just a quick thought on my part. As I said, think it out and
consider
> >problems before they happen.
> >
> >>
> >> >What you are doing is just a very large version of the old HOT air
driven
> >> >filters that were fairly popular a number of years ago.
> >>
> >> I'll look them up... I'm, a fairly recent addict.... er.... I meant
> >> HOBBYIST!!!!
> >>
> >> >Just think it out, maximize the air supply tubing, and consider
damage
> >> >control.
> >>
> >> I'm puttin it all in the garage!!! (Next project is to insulate
around
> >> the whole system!
> >
> >In the garage?? You will need a lot of insulation to run it any
length into
> >the house. It's not that warm in Mississauga.
> >
> >>
> >> Thanx Jim! As always, you are a veritable font of wisdom! How are
you
> >> faring these days? Have you got your systems up to snuff again?
> >> Cheers!
> >
> >Thanks. Still struggling to get back at it. Still doing guppy shows,
and
> >have a speaking engagement in Kitchener in September. Would be nice
if they
> >could get my medications sorted out. Not easy coming back.
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
>
I suggest leaving the floor as is.....perhaps adding a mat to the
walkway to avoid slipping. When you do build your racks make sure the
posts are not sitting on the concrete. Some put hockey pucks under
them. This action keeps water (which will spill) from wicking up the
structure. For heating and air conditioning....try and find an old unit
like they use in cheap hotels that does both functions and mounts in a
hole cut in the wall. This will cool, heat, and also provide plain fan
air. Paint with a paint containing a anti-fungal/mildew agent since
that will naturally want to grow in a moist environment. You may want
to invest in some type of aux power. Either a generator or battery
backup for the main pump. If you invest a lot of money in fish, an
automatic start generator and fail over circuits may be in the cards....

If your tanks are drilled already......common filtration could make a
lot of sense....with auto water changes being easier to do.

good luck... If only money was no object..

[The Madd Hatter]

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 05:50:09 -0400, "Jim Brown" >
wrote:

>midposted
>The Madd Hatter > wrote in message
...
>> Mid Posted
>>
>> On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:41:14 -0400, "Jim Brown" >
>> wrote:
>>

>> I'm not sure... there are 3 or 4 outlets in there... The one closest
>> to where the fish will go is also shared by the Central Vac.. the
>> other major electronic item in there is the Garage Door opener. I'll
>> ask my Dad, since he is an Industrial Electrician..
>
>You are going to be running air and heat as well as lights. I am sure you
>will understand the need for extra circuits. Two or three things clicking
>in at the same time can trip a breaker.
>
That's why I'm worried bout the central vac and the garage door..
>>
>> >Is the floor level? I imagine it has a concrete floor, sloped so winter
>> >melt will run out. There may be a need for a levelled sub-floor with
>> >insulation.
>>
>> The Floor slopes towards the driveway.. How would I go about making
>> this sub-floor w/ insulation? would it be easier to level the rack
>> using wood or some other material?
>
>That would make the fish room floor an elevated one. This would allow room
>for decent insulation. On the other hand, simple shims could level the
>tanks. I prefer nickels (cheap and strong) or solid plastic to get around
>the wood's ability to compress and deteriorate.

Elevating the floor is gonna be tough.. There is a permanent rack
built over the section the tanks will be in... I barely have enough
clearance to comfortably maintain the tanks on the top rack right
now.. I thin its beyond my skill level anyway. I can use plastic or
metal for the shims though...
>
>>
>>
>> >Water supply and drain? You probably have a tap in the garage, but where
>> >will the waste water go?
>>
>> The tap in the garage is right next to the tanks... it is cold only
>> though.. I don't thin there'll be a probem because I have a door
>> leading into my laundry close by and I can hook up a hose from there.
>> Waste water can be siphoned through the side door onto the grass or
>> right onto the driveway, i guess.
>
>All I can say about this is think about the heat loss when filling the
>tanks, and think about the skating rink you will have with the drained
>water.
>

When filling the tanks, I can compensate for heat loss by using warmer
water... Hadn't though about the skating rink! (I can't skate).. I
suppose a python would solve that.. I could drain them right into the
laundry tub..
>>
>>
>> >What about heat? You might be best with a very well insulated room with
>a
>> >space heater. I tried an aquarium one winter in an unheated garage, to
>> >winterize some native fish. Even with a good heater, it barely kept the
>> >water from freezing.
>>
>> I was planning to use a space heater in there.. I figured it will be a
>> very small room, and if itas sufficiently insulated, a regular space
>> heater should keep it heated quite welll. Would I still need to heat
>> the tanks too?
>
>I use a space heater in a well insulated room built in the basement just for
>the aquariums. Some tanks get heaters to accommodate warmth loving fish,
>like discus, zebra plecos, and spawning Betta's. There are wall mounted gas
>heaters if you are on gas-not cheap but better in the long run. I wanted
>one but didn't have the space for the venting.
>
>>
>> >All things considered, it might be easier to build a fishroom behind the
>> >garage, so at least there will be some sun to help warm it up.
>>
>> Behind the garage?? What do you mean?
>
>A free standing insulated room like a garden shed. I know a number of multi
>tank keepers in the UK do this but their weather is much less severe.
>

You mean, a shed in my backyard?? I think it might be even tougher to
keep warm... I don't think my folks would let me do it anyway...
>>
>> >Definitely a project that could be done once all the bugs are worked out.
>> >
>>
>> ALot of bugs at this stage!
>>
>

Wow, this project is pretty broad in scope... I really gotta think it
through.. I though I was gonna slap on a couple of walls, stick a
heater in, and Voila!

>Jim
>
PS: I got some questions re: Discus, but I'll create a new post..
Thanx!

[The Madd Hatter]

Mid Posted

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 23:47:25 -0500, "Racf"
> wrote:

>> >
>> >
>>
>I suggest leaving the floor as is.....perhaps adding a mat to the
>walkway to avoid slipping.

Thats what I'd pretty much have to do... I don't have the skill
required to buld a subfloor. The rack itself was my first attempt at
carpentry. It came out well, mainly because I took 3 months to do it,
one piece at a time...


When you do build your racks make sure the
>posts are not sitting on the concrete. Some put hockey pucks under
>them. This action keeps water (which will spill) from wicking up the
>structure.

Thats what I was thinking about too.. I was thinking about those
rubber shock mats you see in industrial applications... 1/2" thick
usually, and they have big holes in them.. .I figure the water won't
collect, and I can just cover the whole area in it, including the
walkways.. it might even help w/ minute leveling adjustments.

For heating and air conditioning....try and find an old unit
>like they use in cheap hotels that does both functions and mounts in a
>hole cut in the wall. This will cool, heat, and also provide plain fan
>air.

I can't cut any holes in the wall there because it would lead into my
front foyer. I know the ones you mean though..

Paint with a paint containing a anti-fungal/mildew agent since
>that will naturally want to grow in a moist environment.

I stained the rack w/ a hardwood floor stain (red cedar).. Looks very
nice, but I think I should have gone w/ something designed for decks
and fences.

You may want
>to invest in some type of aux power. Either a generator or battery
>backup for the main pump. If you invest a lot of money in fish, an
>automatic start generator and fail over circuits may be in the cards....

I will look at some sort of APC battery backup, but we've never had
anby power outages here. A back up generator is way out of my budget.

>
>If your tanks are drilled already......common filtration could make a
>lot of sense....with auto water changes being easier to do.

The 6 tanks that will go on the rack are drilled w/ bulkheads and over
flow guards. These are from an aquarium store that went out of
business I think. I plan to have a sump system to filter them
eventually. I actually have a 35 gal sump running on my 100 gallon
right now w/ like 10 gallons of bioballs. I might bring that out to
the rack and just use a fluval and aquaclear on the 100 gal..

I will have quite a bit of filtration from the linear air pump.. I'm
going to put 2 sponges in each tank.

>
>good luck... If only money was no object..

I wish... there would be human living tanks in my underwater home...
>

[Racf]

Last but not least, you should plan for adequate ventilation. A wall or
ceiling mounted exhaust fan of suitable size, and also, corresponding
vents to allow in fresh air. In a tight room the humidity will be high
and everything will be wet....and spills would never dissipate. I
forgot this on the earlier post... For vents I like the little cheap
plastic ones intended for the end of a central air duct, that allow you
to adjust how open or closed it is...
Perhaps a bathroom type vent could suck enough air, some of those have
heaters in them...but I wonder if there is a thermostat. Of course then
the question of where it would be vented to arises. I have two
bathrooms in my house. One is vented out a duct and out through the
roof, while the other is simply vented to the attic.

I guess your local weather pattern will help decide what if anything you
will need to do.

[Paul Irwin]

The ventilation is important. I run a small window size exhaust fan spring,
summer and fall in my basement fish room and a dehumidifier the rest of the
year. I have considered a heat exchanger, but I haven't purchased one at
this point.


"Racf" > wrote in message
...
> Last but not least, you should plan for adequate ventilation. A wall or
> ceiling mounted exhaust fan of suitable size, and also, corresponding
> vents to allow in fresh air. In a tight room the humidity will be high
> and everything will be wet....and spills would never dissipate. I
> forgot this on the earlier post... For vents I like the little cheap
> plastic ones intended for the end of a central air duct, that allow you
> to adjust how open or closed it is...
> Perhaps a bathroom type vent could suck enough air, some of those have
> heaters in them...but I wonder if there is a thermostat. Of course then
> the question of where it would be vented to arises. I have two
> bathrooms in my house. One is vented out a duct and out through the
> roof, while the other is simply vented to the attic.
>
> I guess your local weather pattern will help decide what if anything you
> will need to do.
>
>
>

[The Madd Hatter]

I've got one of those industrial window exhaust unit. I could build it
into the wall i'm putting in to separate the room from the rest ofthe
garage. I can use a hose to route the intake for the linear air pump
from outside the room, to ensure that the air supply into the tanks is
always fresh and dry.. I'm in Brampton Ontario, just north west of
Toronto.. Winters are pretty cold...

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 13:42:00 -0500, "Racf"
> wrote:

>Last but not least, you should plan for adequate ventilation. A wall or
>ceiling mounted exhaust fan of suitable size, and also, corresponding
>vents to allow in fresh air. In a tight room the humidity will be high
>and everything will be wet....and spills would never dissipate. I
>forgot this on the earlier post... For vents I like the little cheap
>plastic ones intended for the end of a central air duct, that allow you
>to adjust how open or closed it is...
>Perhaps a bathroom type vent could suck enough air, some of those have
>heaters in them...but I wonder if there is a thermostat. Of course then
>the question of where it would be vented to arises. I have two
>bathrooms in my house. One is vented out a duct and out through the
>roof, while the other is simply vented to the attic.
>
>I guess your local weather pattern will help decide what if anything you
>will need to do.
>
>

[Racf]

"The Madd Hatter" > wrote in message
...
> I've got one of those industrial window exhaust unit. I could build it
> into the wall i'm putting in to separate the room from the rest ofthe
> garage. I can use a hose to route the intake for the linear air pump
> from outside the room, to ensure that the air supply into the tanks is
> always fresh and dry.. I'm in Brampton Ontario, just north west of
> Toronto.. Winters are pretty cold...
>

I didn't even guess you were in that part of the hemisphere, especially
when you said there was a cold water faucet in the garage. I guess cold
water faucet is a good description. Well, the good news is the slab
floor will keep the room nice and cool year round....

I'm down in Champlin MN near Minneapolis, where the winters are a bit
more tropical... I guess your garage faucet stem is also a foot long
like ours here...

[fentorydekson]

I use a space heater in a well insulated room built in the basement only the aquarium. Some tanks have heaters to meet the warm love of fish, Like a discus, zebra plecos, and paradise fish spawning. A wall-mounted gas gas water heater if you are not cheap, but better long-term goal. I would like to once is not enough space for the vent.

[nelssoncraigg]

I advance abrogation the attic as is perhaps abacus a mat to th aisle to abstain slipping. When you do body your racks accomplish abiding th posts are not sitting on the concrete. Some put hockey pucks beneath them. This activity keeps baptize (which will spill) from wicking up th structure.