Agression Problems - What to do

[Indiana Jones]

Preamble:
77 gallons, lots filtration, water conditions all great. Crushed coral
substrate with lots of caves/rockwork.

1 Frontosa - 4-5"
1 Frontosa - 1.5"
2 Blue Dolphins - 5.5"
3 Blue Dolphins - 1.5"
1 Tetracanthus - 5"
1 Male Fuelleborni - 3"
2 Haplichromis species 44 - 3"
1 Aulnocara "red shoulder" - 3.5"
1 Lemon Yellow Hybrid (bought before i knew any better) - 3.5"
1 Tiger Tilapia - 3"
2 Julidochromis reganni - 2.5"
1 telmatochromis vittatus - 2.5"

2 Syndontis cats
1 bushynose pleco

Whats happening:

One problem I have been finding as my fish have been growing from juveniles
to adults, their tolerance for eachother, but more importantly rearraging of
tank decoration has been greatly reduced. In the past 3 months I have lost a
Flameback, the female tetracanthus (i was going to get more females, but
couldnt find any), female fuelleborni. Last night one of the juvy blue
dolphins jumped out of the tank, but luckily i noticed in time and saved it.

2 days ago I rearranged the tank decorations for the first time in about 3
months (i find the decorations have to be moved every few months in order to
do a proper gravel vacuum). Ever since, the hierarchy of the tank has
shifted, and the tetracanthus is getting down half of the tank, including my
prize front, which used to be the tank head. now the front is banished to
the top corner of the tank with his mouth keeping slightly above water.

I turned lights off that day, and fed before and after to try and minimize
agression.

I always heard people accounts of how difficult keeping africans can be, and
now (despite relative success over the past 1.5 years)am am finding out for
myself.

A few issues

1. i expect the tiger tilapia to get banished when he is bigger and more of
a jackass.. but my wife is in love with him
2. i also expected tetracanthus might become a jackass too.... he is so
gorgeous though.

So what do i do? Should i wait a few days and see if the front can find his
way back in?
If i have to get rid of one (i would think the front or the tetracanthus),
the decision will be tough. IS there anything i might try to avoid this
eventuality. As well.. i am worried that when i get rid of one, a new one
becomes the tank jackass... how can i end the cycle? Or should i just let
them be, and let the front learn to fend for himself?

Maybe try overstocking my tank with some new fish to take the heat off the
others?

I am at a loss for how to solve my problems... and advice would be
appreciated.

Thanks

Jeremy

[The Madd Hatter]

Remove the rocks and the agressive fish... Put the rocks back and add the
aggresive fish back a while later... Might work, but a better solution
would be to add more fish and leave less rockwork... That way they don't
have as much territory to latch on to. The size differences in your fish are
pretty high, so eventually you will have problems, no matter what you do..
Best thing would be to start a new tank and sort the fish by size....
"Indiana Jones" > wrote in message
. ca...
> Preamble:
> 77 gallons, lots filtration, water conditions all great. Crushed coral
> substrate with lots of caves/rockwork.
>
> 1 Frontosa - 4-5"
> 1 Frontosa - 1.5"
> 2 Blue Dolphins - 5.5"
> 3 Blue Dolphins - 1.5"
> 1 Tetracanthus - 5"
> 1 Male Fuelleborni - 3"
> 2 Haplichromis species 44 - 3"
> 1 Aulnocara "red shoulder" - 3.5"
> 1 Lemon Yellow Hybrid (bought before i knew any better) - 3.5"
> 1 Tiger Tilapia - 3"
> 2 Julidochromis reganni - 2.5"
> 1 telmatochromis vittatus - 2.5"
>
> 2 Syndontis cats
> 1 bushynose pleco
>
> Whats happening:
>
> One problem I have been finding as my fish have been growing from
juveniles
> to adults, their tolerance for eachother, but more importantly rearraging
of
> tank decoration has been greatly reduced. In the past 3 months I have lost
a
> Flameback, the female tetracanthus (i was going to get more females, but
> couldnt find any), female fuelleborni. Last night one of the juvy blue
> dolphins jumped out of the tank, but luckily i noticed in time and saved
it.
>
> 2 days ago I rearranged the tank decorations for the first time in about 3
> months (i find the decorations have to be moved every few months in order
to
> do a proper gravel vacuum). Ever since, the hierarchy of the tank has
> shifted, and the tetracanthus is getting down half of the tank, including
my
> prize front, which used to be the tank head. now the front is banished to
> the top corner of the tank with his mouth keeping slightly above water.
>
> I turned lights off that day, and fed before and after to try and minimize
> agression.
>
> I always heard people accounts of how difficult keeping africans can be,
and
> now (despite relative success over the past 1.5 years)am am finding out
for
> myself.
>
> A few issues
>
> 1. i expect the tiger tilapia to get banished when he is bigger and more
of
> a jackass.. but my wife is in love with him
> 2. i also expected tetracanthus might become a jackass too.... he is so
> gorgeous though.
>
> So what do i do? Should i wait a few days and see if the front can find
his
> way back in?
> If i have to get rid of one (i would think the front or the tetracanthus),
> the decision will be tough. IS there anything i might try to avoid this
> eventuality. As well.. i am worried that when i get rid of one, a new one
> becomes the tank jackass... how can i end the cycle? Or should i just let
> them be, and let the front learn to fend for himself?
>
> Maybe try overstocking my tank with some new fish to take the heat off the
> others?
>
> I am at a loss for how to solve my problems... and advice would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>

[Mephistopheles]

"Indiana Jones" > wrote in
. ca:

> Preamble:
> 77 gallons, lots filtration, water conditions all great. Crushed coral
> substrate with lots of caves/rockwork.
>
> 1 Frontosa - 4-5"
> 1 Frontosa - 1.5"
> 2 Blue Dolphins - 5.5"
> 3 Blue Dolphins - 1.5"
> 1 Tetracanthus - 5"
> 1 Male Fuelleborni - 3"
> 2 Haplichromis species 44 - 3"
> 1 Aulnocara "red shoulder" - 3.5"
> 1 Lemon Yellow Hybrid (bought before i knew any better) - 3.5"
> 1 Tiger Tilapia - 3"
> 2 Julidochromis reganni - 2.5"
> 1 telmatochromis vittatus - 2.5"
>
> 2 Syndontis cats
> 1 bushynose pleco
>
> Whats happening:
>
> One problem I have been finding as my fish have been growing from
> juveniles to adults, their tolerance for eachother, but more
> importantly rearraging of tank decoration has been greatly reduced. In
> the past 3 months I have lost a Flameback, the female tetracanthus (i
> was going to get more females, but couldnt find any), female
> fuelleborni. Last night one of the juvy blue dolphins jumped out of
> the tank, but luckily i noticed in time and saved it.
>
> 2 days ago I rearranged the tank decorations for the first time in
> about 3 months (i find the decorations have to be moved every few
> months in order to do a proper gravel vacuum). Ever since, the
> hierarchy of the tank has shifted, and the tetracanthus is getting
> down half of the tank, including my prize front, which used to be the
> tank head. now the front is banished to the top corner of the tank
> with his mouth keeping slightly above water.
>
> I turned lights off that day, and fed before and after to try and
> minimize agression.
>
> I always heard people accounts of how difficult keeping africans can
> be, and now (despite relative success over the past 1.5 years)am am
> finding out for myself.
>
> A few issues
>
> 1. i expect the tiger tilapia to get banished when he is bigger and
> more of a jackass.. but my wife is in love with him
> 2. i also expected tetracanthus might become a jackass too.... he is
> so gorgeous though.
>
> So what do i do? Should i wait a few days and see if the front can
> find his way back in?
> If i have to get rid of one (i would think the front or the
> tetracanthus), the decision will be tough. IS there anything i might
> try to avoid this eventuality. As well.. i am worried that when i get
> rid of one, a new one becomes the tank jackass... how can i end the
> cycle? Or should i just let them be, and let the front learn to fend
> for himself?
>
> Maybe try overstocking my tank with some new fish to take the heat off
> the others?
>
> I am at a loss for how to solve my problems... and advice would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeremy
>
When you mix fish from different habitats and different geographic
regions, you increase the chances of compatibility problems. Here, you
are mixing deepwater Tanganyikan fish (frontosa) with rock dwelling
Tanganyikans (Julidichromis, Telmatochromis, tetracanthus), open water
Malawi cichlids (blue Dolphins) with rock dwelling Malawi cichlids
(fuelleborni), together with various other fish, including non-rift lake
African cichlids. If I were fish, I would probably get confused and
aggressive in such a mix. I would recommend concentrating on one
category of fish and either get additional tanks for the rest or return
them, if possible.

Meph