Re: flower horns

[rmc]

There are many Central American cichlids that are every bit as
attractive as the hybrid "Flowerhorn".....At least with pure breeds
you know what you're getting and if they spawn you'll know what you're
going to get.

--

Mark
http://www.cichliddomain.com


"Paul" > wrote in message
...
> I was reading in a British magazine, Practical Fish keeping, that
flower
> horns are a bad idea and will contribute to the degradation of
chichlid
> species.
>
> it says marketing hype has helped to over-inflate the price.
>
> my LFS has certainly fallen for it, they have heaps of them and are
selling
> them for A$300 for a 4 inch fish. they are nowhere near as colourful
as the
> brochure that he showed me, but he is selling quite a few of them he
> reckons.
>
> comments??
>
>

[liv2padl]

The intentional creation of hybrids has a number of negative aspects:

1. "Money" is more important than the fish's health. Sadly with the
immense pressure on marketers to create "something new" for the insatiable
flowerhorn demand by consumers, many have resorted to cosmetic/surgical
mutilation of fishes. The removal of the fishes fins or tail is not
uncommon, from the minimal amount of scar tissue surrounding the removed
appendage it must be assumed that this is undertaken when the fish are still
developing (under 1 cm). This process must, by its nature, be devastating on
the fishes health, and it is reasonable to assume that many fishes do not
survive to adulthood. Good flowerhorns are judged not only by color or
whether markings on the side of the body resemble Chinese characters for
luck - but also on the roundness of the body. This has led to many people
causing intentional damage to the fishes spine in order to stunt its growth
elongate growth. There is also an issue of "quality of life" to be
considered - hybrid cichlids, such as the red blood parrot, have deformed
jaws and swim bladder problems. Cichlids are renowned for high intelligence
and complex behavioral patterns, such that gross anatomical deformities,
impinge on the normal behaviors of the fish.

Philosophical and ethical concerns. Many hobbyists, the authors included,
dislike hybrids because their deliberate creation demonstrates a certain
amount arrogance regarding the idea that we can improve upon natural beauty.
There are currently over 1500 species of cichlids in the wild - this is a
large amount of naturally occurring diversity and it seems unnecessary to go
creating hybrids just because it can be done. This natural diversity is
fundamental to the attraction most people have for the cichlid keeping
hobby, the creation of designer cichlids, or as Ron Coleman calls them
"Franken-fish", detract from the natural diversity present in this
assemblage of fishes.

Identification.
The diversity of cichlid species is such that identification is a
fundamentally difficult thing at the best of times. The example to the right
features two pictures, the first is the midas cichlid (red devil) A.
citrinellus, the second picture shows a flowerhorn known to the flowerhorn
keepers as the "jing kang". It is undoubtedly a hybrid as some jing kang
have body patterning similar to A. trimaculatus. The similarity between the
two fish is remarkable and it illustrates how flowerhorns could be mistaken
for species cichlids. Of some concern to those keeping flowerhorns should
also be the higher price tag associated with a "jing kang". While a midas
cichlid juvenile costs $5 - 15 (AUD), the "jing kang" fetches very high
prices in excess of $50 (AUD), this illustrates the great effect of the
flowerhorn marketing machine.

Dangers of hybridization:
Perhaps of most concern is the way hybrid cichlids like the flowerhorn could
be mistakenly identified as "pure" cichlid species. It is conceivable that
poor quality flowerhorns, could be mistaken for cichlids such as A.
trimaculatus or A. citrinellus and bred back with the original species. This
has already occurred in cichlids such as V. synspilus, V. maculicauda and V.
bimaculatus and this only due to accidental hybridisation by hobbyists, with
the deliberate large scale production of hundreds of thousands of hybrids
the risk to the hobby is increased many times over.

Re-introduction of cichlids in the hobby into natural settings. Although
the re-introduction of cichlids from the cichlid keeping hobby into the wild
is not standard practice at the present time with the threat to many
ecosystems globally the cichlid hobby may provide future sources of
endangered fish for re-introduction into the wild. It is therefore important
that all cichlid keepers are aware that the fish we maintain in our aquaria
are potentially endangered in the wild, due to a variety of factors eg:
competition from other species such as the Nile Perch and urban development.
In this awareness it is important to strive - wherever possible, to maintain
cichlids in our aquariums as they exist in the wild.

So why do people keep hybrid fish?

A one word answer applies here: marketing.

The marketers pushing the flowerhorn will tell you: The value of the
Flower Horn is from the "nuchal hump" on its head, the pearl dots on its
body, the redness of its fins and body and the roundness of the body on the
whole.

There is a suggestion that a good quality flowerhorn will bring luck and
prosperity to the owner via feng shui.

It is noteworthy though that many pure species have nuchal humps, many of
these "hump-headed" pure species also have dots on the body and red/bright
colouration. In reality, flowerhorns offer very little extra in terms of
the aesthetic qualities over the "pure species" fish and seem to offer very
many more negative aspects.

Q: So why do the marketers want you to buy a flowerhorn?

A: So it can bring luck and fortune to them - at your monetary loss. Pure
species cichlasomines are much less expensive and have all the luck &
prosperity bringing power of the flowerhorn.

So what can we do?

Don't buy flowerhorns, red blood parrots or other hybrid cichlids. When you
buy these fish are making the unscrupulous marketers of these fish - richer
and the cichlid hobby poorer.

Don't buy any African cichlids from tanks that read: Assorted cichlids,
assorted peacocks, assorted mbuna etc.

When you do buy a cichlid, any cichlid - make sure you know what you are
buying before you buy it. Do a bit of reading on the net or in the
literature on the requirements of the fish you are thinking of purchasing.


--
You're never too old to have a happy childhood.

[RedForeman ©®]

get rid of the html, it made your small post 4 times larger than the book
that was written before you....

and how elegant you type... oh wait... those aren't your words, you copied
that from

http://www.sydneycichlid.com/flowerhorn.html

and took credit for it.. hmmm... sounds fishy to me....

Atleast you could have credited the original author, Andy Miller and David
Midgley 2002.

I think we've all learned a bit from this....

[agnusDei666]

this is call evolution simply.
got a pure" trimaculatus cichlid" and a female flower horn, can`t wait to
see the babies.
this fish are awsome, mine are already around 13 cm long and growth to 30
cam/35cm, lucky i got a huge tank!
i am the devil and think evolution is great....
breed and hybrid...
after all this has been done since thousand of years!!!!
wake up!
best regards.
H
--
""please mommy can i go out and kill tonight i feel like taking a life
please i wanna
silver kitchen knive and feel, feel like taking a life daddy, can i go out
and hunt tonight like u do on sunday mornings...."
miss Kitten.
"liv2padl" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> i didn't say i wrote it and i didn't ask for credit for writing it. yes,
i
> should have said "hey .. i took this from ....". i simply posted it
> informationally. i'm not sure what you learned from it ... hopefully, not
> to buy hybrids. if you learned anything else, i don't take credit for it.
> ;-)
>
> --
> You're never too old to have a happy childhood.
>

[Sarotherodon]

"agnusDei666" <feeel@so good.cum> wrote in message
...
> this is call evolution simply.
> got a pure" trimaculatus cichlid" and a female flower horn, can`t wait to
> see the babies.
> this fish are awsome, mine are already around 13 cm long and growth to 30
> cam/35cm, lucky i got a huge tank!
> i am the devil and think evolution is great....
> breed and hybrid...
> after all this has been done since thousand of years!!!!
> wake up!
> best regards.
> H
Hmm, if the Devil loves evolution, perhaps you are the Levid, since what you
describe is pretty much the reverse of what is generally considred to be
evolution. :-)

[The Madd Hatter]

You are exactly what I pictured a hybrid to be... A mongrel cross between a
baboon and a homo sapiens. You are ignorant. Pick up a book, and instead of
trying to eat it this time, try reading it instead. If not, then kindly go
to Hell (you'll be right at home I'm sure)


"agnusDei666" <feeel@so good.cum> wrote in message
...
> this is call evolution simply.
> got a pure" trimaculatus cichlid" and a female flower horn, can`t wait to
> see the babies.
> this fish are awsome, mine are already around 13 cm long and growth to 30
> cam/35cm, lucky i got a huge tank!
> i am the devil and think evolution is great....
> breed and hybrid...
> after all this has been done since thousand of years!!!!
> wake up!
> best regards.
> H
> --
> ""please mommy can i go out and kill tonight i feel like taking a life
> please i wanna
> silver kitchen knive and feel, feel like taking a life daddy, can i go out
> and hunt tonight like u do on sunday mornings...."
> miss Kitten.
> "liv2padl" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> > i didn't say i wrote it and i didn't ask for credit for writing it.
yes,
> i
> > should have said "hey .. i took this from ....". i simply posted it
> > informationally. i'm not sure what you learned from it ... hopefully,
not
> > to buy hybrids. if you learned anything else, i don't take credit for
it.
> > ;-)
> >
> > --
> > You're never too old to have a happy childhood.
> >
>
>

[agnusDei666]

"The Madd Hatter" > wrote in message
ogers.com...
> You are exactly what I pictured a hybrid to be... A mongrel cross between
a
> baboon and a homo sapiens. You are ignorant. Pick up a book, and instead
of
> trying to eat it this time, try reading it instead. If not, then kindly
go
> to Hell (you'll be right at home I'm sure)

that a nice combination, coming from a cross breed between a guinea-pig
brain DNA and a bullsmattif, big with small cock/balls! never mind man, i
am sure u wife as plenty with her lover to compensate u lack of physical and
mental abilities!
now, to the point, EVOLUTION as far as my little cross breed brain like to
think is about change, but most of all, progressing towards better...
that the ideal in general.
as i say, look around u, instead of spending u time reading too many boring
books, to find some sad replied to newsgroups! try a **** u wife instead,
much better to let go of the pressure...(obviously, i assume, it come from a
small genetalia disorder), just a guess?!
ok when off track, evolution, yes , look at u dogs/cats/birds/plants/
etc....the list is endless. no need for books.
all of this has beed cross--breeed/hybrid.
but eh,man, one of this day, they might be able to REALLY MAKE SMAL DICK TO
BIG ONE in the mid time, **** u barby dolls and **** off.
as for replying to my delicious email, comparating to u crude one, don`t
bother, i won`t even take time to reply or reads it.
H.
hell is fine u should try it, lot of sex...

--
""please mommy can i go out and kill tonight i feel like taking a life
please i wanna
silver kitchen knive and feel, feel like taking a life daddy, can i go out
and hunt tonight like u do on sunday mornings...."
miss Kitten.
"The Madd Hatter" > wrote in message
ogers.com...
> You are exactly what I pictured a hybrid to be... A mongrel cross between
a
> baboon and a homo sapiens. You are ignorant. Pick up a book, and instead
of
> trying to eat it this time, try reading it instead. If not, then kindly
go
> to Hell (you'll be right at home I'm sure)
>
>
> "agnusDei666" <feeel@so good.cum> wrote in message
> ...
> > this is call evolution simply.
> > got a pure" trimaculatus cichlid" and a female flower horn, can`t wait
to
> > see the babies.
> > this fish are awsome, mine are already around 13 cm long and growth to
30
> > cam/35cm, lucky i got a huge tank!
> > i am the devil and think evolution is great....
> > breed and hybrid...
> > after all this has been done since thousand of years!!!!
> > wake up!
> > best regards.
> > H
> > --
> > ""please mommy can i go out and kill tonight i feel like taking a life
> > please i wanna
> > silver kitchen knive and feel, feel like taking a life daddy, can i go
out
> > and hunt tonight like u do on sunday mornings...."
> > miss Kitten.
> > "liv2padl" > wrote in message
> > hlink.net...
> > > i didn't say i wrote it and i didn't ask for credit for writing it.
> yes,
> > i
> > > should have said "hey .. i took this from ....". i simply posted it
> > > informationally. i'm not sure what you learned from it ... hopefully,
> not
> > > to buy hybrids. if you learned anything else, i don't take credit for
> it.
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > --
> > > You're never too old to have a happy childhood.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[The Madd Hatter]

"agnusDei666" <feeel@so good.cum> wrote in message
...
> "The Madd Hatter" > wrote in message
> ogers.com...
> > You are exactly what I pictured a hybrid to be... A mongrel cross
between
> a
> > baboon and a homo sapiens. You are ignorant. Pick up a book, and instead
> of
> > trying to eat it this time, try reading it instead. If not, then kindly
> go
> > to Hell (you'll be right at home I'm sure)
>
> that a nice combination, coming from a cross breed between a guinea-pig
> brain DNA and a bullsmattif, big with small cock/balls! never mind man, i
> am sure u wife as plenty with her lover to compensate u lack of physical
and
> mental abilities!
> now, to the point, EVOLUTION as far as my little cross breed brain like to
> think is about change, but most of all, progressing towards better...
> that the ideal in general.
> as i say, look around u, instead of spending u time reading too many
boring
> books, to find some sad replied to newsgroups! try a **** u wife instead,
> much better to let go of the pressure...(obviously, i assume, it come from
a
> small genetalia disorder), just a guess?!
> ok when off track, evolution, yes , look at u dogs/cats/birds/plants/
> etc....the list is endless. no need for books.
> all of this has beed cross--breeed/hybrid.
> but eh,man, one of this day, they might be able to REALLY MAKE SMAL DICK
TO
> BIG ONE in the mid time, **** u barby dolls and **** off.
> as for replying to my delicious email, comparating to u crude one, don`t
> bother, i won`t even take time to reply or reads it.
> H.
> hell is fine u should try it, lot of sex...

A fine display of grammatical excellence.... for a baboon/human cross... I
rest my case.

PS: You're related to chip aren't you? (on the baboon side, no doubt)

[CKight8988]

>hell is fine u should try it, lot of sex..

What makes you so arrogant to think that Satan will let you have sex with any
of the women he controls??? ....Cary

[levittd]

"agnusDei666" <feeel@so good.cum> wrote in message
...
<snip>)
>
> that a nice combination, coming from a cross breed between a guinea-pig
> brain DNA and a bullsmattif, big with small cock/balls! never mind man, i
> am sure u wife as plenty with her lover to compensate u lack of physical
and
> mental abilities!
> now, to the point, EVOLUTION as far as my little cross breed brain like to
> think is about change, but most of all, progressing towards better...
> that the ideal in general.
> as i say, look around u, instead of spending u time reading too many
boring
> books, to find some sad replied to newsgroups! try a **** u wife instead,
> much better to let go of the pressure...(obviously, i assume, it come from
a
> small genetalia disorder), just a guess?!
> ok when off track, evolution, yes , look at u dogs/cats/birds/plants/
> etc....the list is endless. no need for books.
> all of this has beed cross--breeed/hybrid.
> but eh,man, one of this day, they might be able to REALLY MAKE SMAL DICK
TO
> BIG ONE in the mid time, **** u barby dolls and **** off.
> as for replying to my delicious email, comparating to u crude one, don`t
> bother, i won`t even take time to reply or reads it.
> H.
> hell is fine u should try it, lot of sex...
>

agnusDei666-

Please see my post in the thread "flower Horn fish". I'm only posting this
note to point out that this idiotic rant is second only to that idiotic rant
you call a signature. I wish Jim Brown was still around, he had a talent for
putting people like you in their place. However, I fear that anything that
could be said to you would fall on deaf ears (blind eyes in this case). Let
me put it to you this way - if one were to breed dogs that could not, by
their very "nature", close their mouths (like blood parrots), the SPCA
would be shutting you down before you knew it, as these dogs would not be
able to feed themselves. It's no different for fish. The bloodlines of some,
if not all, cichlids are quite fragile and do not need people like you
breeding fish like these - you spoke of evolution, but evolution generally
works only to improve a species' design, for that is the point of it. You
seek only to destroy it - in just a few generations you could undo millions
of years worth of nature's genetic "tinkering" - like fixing a computer with
a sledgehammer. Open your eyes, "agnus", and perhaps you will see yourself
for the fool you are.

Hoping you never reproduce,
levittd

[RedForeman ©®]

Well now, it's obvious as to how old you are, your grammar and logic show it
all too well...

now take the tittie out of your mouth, and tell mommy to put you down for
your nap....

and get a life loser troll....

<plonk>