Help with First Aquarium (Species Selection & Stocking Rate)

[Ersatz Anarchist]

After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish. I
want to include a catfish of some sort.

1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths and
Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for such
a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?

2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several others).

3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?


Thanks for any and all input you may have!

Mark Cornell

[NetMax]

"Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
...
> After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
> aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
> plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
> slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
> strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish. I
> want to include a catfish of some sort.

Some 55g and 75g are almost identical except for the front to back width.
Some 55g are 12" wide, which I think you will find too narrow for the
fish you are considering and any significant amount of rocks and
driftwood. JMO

> 1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
> to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths and
> Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for such
> a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
> Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?

Until the Convicts and/or Firemouths breed (and it will be the Convicts
first), the mix is ok. After they breed, you will have new and very
predictable challenges ;~) You could start with 4 juveniles of each as
an example. That should get interesting in about 9 months.

> 2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
> catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
> acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several others).

For brutal efficiency, I like Pictus catfish. They also grow large with
your cichlids, and don't generally stay still long enough for the
cichlids to bother them.

> 3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?

Not offhand. Be sure to cycle the tank properly. Overfilter. Do lots
of waterchanges. Feed a wide variety of foods (smaller feedings but
often, is best). Raise the water temperture for growth & nice colour.
Lower the temperature if things get too agressive. Give them lots of
shelters. If they fight too much, take away all their shelters ;~)
....just the usual comments :o)

NetMax

> Thanks for any and all input you may have!
>
> Mark Cornell
>

[The Madd Hatter]

Also consider some form of target fish, that is super fast, tough, and
annoying. They'll spend more time chasing it then they will fighting each
other. I think Danio's or rainbows might be options.
"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
> ...
> > After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
> > aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
> > plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
> > slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
> > strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish. I
> > want to include a catfish of some sort.
>
> Some 55g and 75g are almost identical except for the front to back width.
> Some 55g are 12" wide, which I think you will find too narrow for the
> fish you are considering and any significant amount of rocks and
> driftwood. JMO
>
> > 1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
> > to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths and
> > Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for such
> > a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
> > Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?
>
> Until the Convicts and/or Firemouths breed (and it will be the Convicts
> first), the mix is ok. After they breed, you will have new and very
> predictable challenges ;~) You could start with 4 juveniles of each as
> an example. That should get interesting in about 9 months.
>
> > 2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
> > catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
> > acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several others).
>
> For brutal efficiency, I like Pictus catfish. They also grow large with
> your cichlids, and don't generally stay still long enough for the
> cichlids to bother them.
>
> > 3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?
>
> Not offhand. Be sure to cycle the tank properly. Overfilter. Do lots
> of waterchanges. Feed a wide variety of foods (smaller feedings but
> often, is best). Raise the water temperture for growth & nice colour.
> Lower the temperature if things get too agressive. Give them lots of
> shelters. If they fight too much, take away all their shelters ;~)
> ...just the usual comments :o)
>
> NetMax
>
> > Thanks for any and all input you may have!
> >
> > Mark Cornell
> >
>
>

[The Madd Hatter]

Also consider some form of target fish, that is super fast, tough, and
annoying. They'll spend more time chasing it then they will fighting each
other. I think Danio's or rainbows might be options.
"NetMax" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> "Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
> ...
> > After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
> > aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
> > plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
> > slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
> > strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish. I
> > want to include a catfish of some sort.
>
> Some 55g and 75g are almost identical except for the front to back width.
> Some 55g are 12" wide, which I think you will find too narrow for the
> fish you are considering and any significant amount of rocks and
> driftwood. JMO
>
> > 1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
> > to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths and
> > Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for such
> > a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
> > Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?
>
> Until the Convicts and/or Firemouths breed (and it will be the Convicts
> first), the mix is ok. After they breed, you will have new and very
> predictable challenges ;~) You could start with 4 juveniles of each as
> an example. That should get interesting in about 9 months.
>
> > 2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
> > catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
> > acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several others).
>
> For brutal efficiency, I like Pictus catfish. They also grow large with
> your cichlids, and don't generally stay still long enough for the
> cichlids to bother them.
>
> > 3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?
>
> Not offhand. Be sure to cycle the tank properly. Overfilter. Do lots
> of waterchanges. Feed a wide variety of foods (smaller feedings but
> often, is best). Raise the water temperture for growth & nice colour.
> Lower the temperature if things get too agressive. Give them lots of
> shelters. If they fight too much, take away all their shelters ;~)
> ...just the usual comments :o)
>
> NetMax
>
> > Thanks for any and all input you may have!
> >
> > Mark Cornell
> >
>
>

[Rich Conley]

I tottally agree with netmax on the tank. I have a 55 and really wish that it
was a 75...(got it at a yardsale with 2 powerheads, a 29 gal, and a 20
gal...and a whole bunch of old whisper filters for like 50 buck...so no
complaints...) but the extra with would seriously help. Its real hard to
aquascape something that tall when you only have 12" of width. Makes building
rockpiles difficult.

NetMax wrote:

> "Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
> ...
> > After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
> > aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
> > plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
> > slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
> > strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish. I
> > want to include a catfish of some sort.
>
> Some 55g and 75g are almost identical except for the front to back width.
> Some 55g are 12" wide, which I think you will find too narrow for the
> fish you are considering and any significant amount of rocks and
> driftwood. JMO
>
> > 1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
> > to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths and
> > Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for such
> > a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
> > Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?
>
> Until the Convicts and/or Firemouths breed (and it will be the Convicts
> first), the mix is ok. After they breed, you will have new and very
> predictable challenges ;~) You could start with 4 juveniles of each as
> an example. That should get interesting in about 9 months.
>
> > 2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
> > catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
> > acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several others).
>
> For brutal efficiency, I like Pictus catfish. They also grow large with
> your cichlids, and don't generally stay still long enough for the
> cichlids to bother them.
>
> > 3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?
>
> Not offhand. Be sure to cycle the tank properly. Overfilter. Do lots
> of waterchanges. Feed a wide variety of foods (smaller feedings but
> often, is best). Raise the water temperture for growth & nice colour.
> Lower the temperature if things get too agressive. Give them lots of
> shelters. If they fight too much, take away all their shelters ;~)
> ...just the usual comments :o)
>
> NetMax
>
> > Thanks for any and all input you may have!
> >
> > Mark Cornell
> >

[Ersatz Anarchist]

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:48:32 -0400, "NetMax"
> wrote:

>
>"Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
...
>> After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
>> aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
>> plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
>> slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
>> strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish. I
>> want to include a catfish of some sort.
>
>Some 55g and 75g are almost identical except for the front to back width.
>Some 55g are 12" wide, which I think you will find too narrow for the
>fish you are considering and any significant amount of rocks and
>driftwood. JMO

I decided on the 75 Gallon tank today. While the cost is higher, I
like the added depth of the tank.


>> 1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
>> to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths and
>> Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for such
>> a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
>> Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?
>
>Until the Convicts and/or Firemouths breed (and it will be the Convicts
>first), the mix is ok. After they breed, you will have new and very
>predictable challenges ;~) You could start with 4 juveniles of each as
>an example. That should get interesting in about 9 months.

Pardon me for being dense, but can I take from your response that once
the Convicts or Firemouths begin breeding that the tank will turn into
a war zone?

>> 2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
>> catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
>> acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several others).
>
>For brutal efficiency, I like Pictus catfish. They also grow large with
>your cichlids, and don't generally stay still long enough for the
>cichlids to bother them.

Any thoughts on a Striped Rafael? I saw one in the LFS last night and
thought it was pretty cool looking. They are South American and mostly
nocturnal. Since I was planning on having a fair bit of "structure" in
the tank, I thought it would be a nice addition.

Can I mix Pictus and a Striped Rafael? The LFS indicated that Pictus
catfish do best in small groups. How many would you recommend to keep
them a happy group?

>
>> 3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?
>
>Not offhand. Be sure to cycle the tank properly. Overfilter. Do lots
>of waterchanges. Feed a wide variety of foods (smaller feedings but
>often, is best). Raise the water temperture for growth & nice colour.
>Lower the temperature if things get too agressive. Give them lots of
>shelters. If they fight too much, take away all their shelters ;~)
>...just the usual comments :o)
>
>NetMax
>
>> Thanks for any and all input you may have!
>>
>> Mark Cornell
>>
>


Thank you again for all advice!

Mark

[NetMax]

"Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:48:32 -0400, "NetMax"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Ersatz Anarchist" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> After some research, I have decided to put together a cichlid
> >> aquarium. I will probably get a 55 gallon tank, but may take the
> >> plunge and get a 75 gallon tank. According to the LFS, my water is
> >> slightly soft and has a ph of 7.1 (at least according to their test
> >> strips). I was recommended to include 6 tiger barbs as dither fish.
I
> >> want to include a catfish of some sort.
> >
> >Some 55g and 75g are almost identical except for the front to back
width.
> >Some 55g are 12" wide, which I think you will find too narrow for the
> >fish you are considering and any significant amount of rocks and
> >driftwood. JMO
>
> I decided on the 75 Gallon tank today. While the cost is higher, I
> like the added depth of the tank.
>
>
> >> 1) I am interested in Firemouth and Convict Cichlids. They seem
> >> to be hardy and relatively beginner friendly. Is a mix Firemouths
and
> >> Convicts appropriate? What sort of stocking rate should I use for
such
> >> a mixed tank (if appropriate), or if not, how many Firemouths or
> >> Convicts should I put in a 55 gallon tank (or a 75 gallon tank)?
> >
> >Until the Convicts and/or Firemouths breed (and it will be the
Convicts
> >first), the mix is ok. After they breed, you will have new and very
> >predictable challenges ;~) You could start with 4 juveniles of each
as
> >an example. That should get interesting in about 9 months.
>
> Pardon me for being dense, but can I take from your response that once
> the Convicts or Firemouths begin breeding that the tank will turn into
> a war zone?

Perhaps not a war zone, but any understandings and alliances previously
established between the different fish will be changed. A spawning pair
will need to secure a site for their fry (including several inches around
it). Tank-mates need to respect that zone. There is sometimes a
disagreement as to whether this zone will be allowed and respected.
Failure to respect a Convict's 'fry zone' can & will lead to death, even
for larger fish. Convicts pair work very well as a team, either taking
turns at attacking intruders, or even attacking together like 2
side-by-side torpedoes. I've seen 2.5" Convicts secure a fry zone in a
tank of 6 to 8" Oscars & Acaras, and raise the fry. The Oscars were
_not_ pleased with the reduction in their allowed swimming area, so I
eventually pulled the Convict pair out to give the Oscars their tank
back.

> >> 2) Any recommendations as to a catfish choice? I assume that any
> >> catfish that will be too large for the Cichlids to eat would be an
> >> acceptable choice. Banjo cats look interesting (as do several
others).
> >
> >For brutal efficiency, I like Pictus catfish. They also grow large
with
> >your cichlids, and don't generally stay still long enough for the
> >cichlids to bother them.
>
> Any thoughts on a Striped Rafael? I saw one in the LFS last night and
> thought it was pretty cool looking. They are South American and mostly
> nocturnal. Since I was planning on having a fair bit of "structure" in
> the tank, I thought it would be a nice addition.

I've got striped & spotted Rafaels and I'm not overly impressed with
them. All I ever see is their tails sticking out of shelters during the
day.

> Can I mix Pictus and a Striped Rafael? The LFS indicated that Pictus
> catfish do best in small groups. How many would you recommend to keep
> them a happy group?

I usually keep only 1 Pictus at a time, because of their eventual size.
I currently have 2 in a 120g with cichlids. Initially they did not
tolerate each other's company graciously, but have now grown more
tolerant. IME, Pictus are solitary catfish, and are at the extreme of
what I'd call an aquarium-suitable fish. One IMHO would be plenty for a
75g, 3 would be 'two' much ;~)

NetMax

> >
> >> 3) Any other thoughts for a newbie?
> >
> >Not offhand. Be sure to cycle the tank properly. Overfilter. Do
lots
> >of waterchanges. Feed a wide variety of foods (smaller feedings but
> >often, is best). Raise the water temperture for growth & nice colour.
> >Lower the temperature if things get too agressive. Give them lots of
> >shelters. If they fight too much, take away all their shelters ;~)
> >...just the usual comments :o)
> >
> >NetMax
> >
> >> Thanks for any and all input you may have!
> >>
> >> Mark Cornell
> >>
> >
>
>
> Thank you again for all advice!
>
> Mark

[Rich Conley]

>
>
> I usually keep only 1 Pictus at a time, because of their eventual size.
> I currently have 2 in a 120g with cichlids. Initially they did not
> tolerate each other's company graciously, but have now grown more
> tolerant. IME, Pictus are solitary catfish, and are at the extreme of
> what I'd call an aquarium-suitable fish. One IMHO would be plenty for a
> 75g, 3 would be 'two' much ;~)
>
> NetMax

Have you heard something I havent...I thought 4.5" was max size for them....

[OttoDeFe]

Raphaels are nicely armored - and hide well. You might want to try and find
some Sajica - pretty and a bit less aggressive than convicts. I had a male
convict that would jump out of the tank at me! Pimelodella gracilis might be
a good choice as well as pictus - both can give a painful stick...

[NetMax]

"Rich Conley" > wrote in message
...
> >
> >
> > I usually keep only 1 Pictus at a time, because of their eventual
size.
> > I currently have 2 in a 120g with cichlids. Initially they did not
> > tolerate each other's company graciously, but have now grown more
> > tolerant. IME, Pictus are solitary catfish, and are at the extreme
of
> > what I'd call an aquarium-suitable fish. One IMHO would be plenty
for a
> > 75g, 3 would be 'two' much ;~)
> >
> > NetMax
>
> Have you heard something I havent...I thought 4.5" was max size for
them....

There is some variation in size reports, (though not as bad as ID sharks
;~). Pictus can get larger than the usual 4 to 5" often mentioned.
Perhaps the difference is whether it's the Peruvian or the Columbian
sub-species. I take web info with some scepticism, but here is a
sampling I found.

4.3"
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=13115&genusname=Pim
elodus&speciesname=pictus
4.3"
http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?id=Pimelodus+pictus

4.8" http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/pimelodi/pimelodu/276_f.htm

5" http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/Fishindx/pictus.htm

6"
http://www.aquariacentral.com/species/db.cgi?db=fresh&uid=default&ID=0134
&view_records=1

8-9"
http://species.fishindex.com/species_2863pimelodus_pictus_pictus_catfish.
html

10" http://www.users.bigpond.com/rjeb/pictus.html

I have a couple which are 4" and 4.5" now, and they haven't given any
indication that their very rapid growth rate will be slowing anytime
soon. They are in a 120g cichlid tank so they are *cough* well fed.
Previously I've had Pictus (then the were Angelica Pimoladella) in
smaller tanks, and they typically reached about 3-3.5", so ymmv.

NetMax

[~Vicki ~]

I tottally agree with netmax on the tank. I have a 55 and really wish
that it was a 75...(got it at a yardsale with 2 powerheads, a 29 gal,
and a 20 gal...and a whole bunch of old whisper filters for like 50
buck...so no complaints...) but the extra with would seriously help. Its
real hard to aquascape something that tall when you only have 12" of
width. Makes building rockpiles difficult.


I agree too. My 55g is a pain to mess with, but it was free so I can't
complain about it to much. If I were to buy a new 4 ft tank I would get
the 75 or even a 90. Even a 40g has better surface area for oxygen
exchange.

Vicki