Sand on the bottom..........

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
the sand? Or is that not a problem?
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Natsirt]

On Oct 8, 3:27 pm, "Jeffrey St. Clair, Ph.D." <info@REMOVE*THIScichlid-
world.com> wrote:
> Are you referring to play type sand? I'd avoid it as it has clay and really
> hard to rinse out. You could do just sand and then you just shake your
> python an inch from it and it will suck up the mulm. I wouldn't mix the two
> substrates as they will mix into a sand/gravel mess. Sand is great though,
> because of it's density, nothing sinks in like with gravel, etc.
>
> "Reel McKoi" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
> > heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
> > gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
> > the sand? Or is that not a problem?
> > --
>
> > RM....
> > ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Builders sand is commonly used for masonary work and should not have
any kind of clay in it. Of course what is called builders sand here
may not be what they call builders sand in other areas. You can buy
the play sand from Lowes or Home Depot inthe bags and it is cleaned
and free of such junk, and very cheap. I use the sugar white play
sand which is very fine and does great for plants.....I have seen the
same exact (suitable) sand sold as lawn leveling sand, builders sand,.
play sand, traction sand, masonary sand,paver leveling
sand...........all of which were identical......Just watch yu do not
get a calcium based sand such as old castle or southdown as it will
alter your ph. But if your gonna keep African cichlids then the
calcium based sand would be ideal.

[Larry Blanchard]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:00:51 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:

> I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
> heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
> gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
> the sand? Or is that not a problem?

If the tank will be heavily planted you won't be doing much vacuuming
anyway :-).

And I know I've said it before, but the best homemade substrate I've found
is the coarse "tube sand" or "traction sand" with the really fine
particles sifted out. More like fine gravel than sand. My plants seem to
love it. And it's cheap :-).

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Jeffrey St. Clair, Ph.D." > wrote in
message ...
> Are you referring to play type sand?

No, not the play sand. It's too fine. I'm thinking about builders sand which
is a little more coarse, cheaper, darker in color and used to mix to make
concrete.

I'd avoid it as it has clay and really
> hard to rinse out. You could do just sand and then you just shake your
> python an inch from it and it will suck up the mulm. I wouldn't mix the
> two substrates as they will mix into a sand/gravel mess. Sand is great
> though, because of it's density, nothing sinks in like with gravel, etc.

I was afraid it would go anaerobic from fine mulm if I used just sand or a
sand mix and didn't or couldn't vac it.
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Natsirt" > wrote in message
ups.com...

Builders sand is commonly used for masonary work and should not have
any kind of clay in it. Of course what is called builders sand here
may not be what they call builders sand in other areas.

Where I live the builders sand from Lowe's is courser and a darker color. I
buy it to mix with potting soil for my cacti and succulents. The white play
sand it too powdery although I've used that one in potting mixes as well.

You can buy
the play sand from Lowes or Home Depot inthe bags and it is cleaned
and free of such junk, and very cheap.

Yep! :-) Not expensive at all and I like the darker color of the
builder's sand.

I use the sugar white play
sand which is very fine and does great for plants.....I have seen the
same exact (suitable) sand sold as lawn leveling sand, builders sand,.
play sand, traction sand, masonary sand,paver leveling
sand...........all of which were identical......Just watch yu do not
get a calcium based sand such as old castle or southdown as it will
alter your ph. But if your gonna keep African cichlids then the
calcium based sand would be ideal.

Thanks for the warning. I'm not sure what kind of fish are going in the 2nd
tank yet.
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:00:51 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:
>
>> I'm about to set up the other 55g tank in the sunroom. Because it'll be
>> heavily planted I was wondering about adding rough builders sand to the
>> gravel. The question is.... how do you vac the gravel without sucking up
>> the sand? Or is that not a problem?
>
> If the tank will be heavily planted you won't be doing much vacuuming
> anyway :-).
>
> And I know I've said it before, but the best homemade substrate I've found
> is the coarse "tube sand" or "traction sand" with the really fine
> particles sifted out. More like fine gravel than sand. My plants seem to
> love it. And it's cheap :-).
==========================
Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to mix
concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may be
the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming the
bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
vacc'ed at all.
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Larry Blanchard]

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:04 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:

>> And I know I've said it before, but the best homemade substrate I've found
>> is the coarse "tube sand" or "traction sand" with the really fine
>> particles sifted out. More like fine gravel than sand. My plants seem to
>> love it. And it's cheap :-).
> ==========================
> Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to mix
> concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may be
> the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming the
> bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
> vacc'ed at all.

No, traction sand is what you carry in the winter to put under your wheels
if you get stuck in the snow and ice. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is fine
gravel in the 1/16" to 1/8" range. I sift out the finer stuff and throw
it away.

It may be different in your area - I live in eastern Washington state.

I haven't had any problems yet with gunk on the bottom, but I have a herd
of Maylasian trumpet snails in each tank :-).

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
oups.com...

The *tube sand* that I know about (and use for traction during the
winter) is a larger grit than play sand, that's for sure. = /
Found that out when one of the tubes got a hole poked in it (sharp
metal), which isn't easy to do with tube sand. The bags are really
tuff.
The sand for concrete is a bit smaller than tube sand.
Is "builder's" and the sand for mixing concrete the same stuff?

Yes. It's much coarser than play sand which is a step above powder at the
Lowe's and HD where I live.

Roy
mentioned it, as well as you RM. I just know about the concrete type
and the tube (or traction) sand.
Right now I've got 4 tubes of it on the garage floor waiting until
winter. = )

Tubes? What do you mean "tubes" of it? Here it's sold in 50lb bags like
the play sand.

I didn't know that sand like these would be safe for aquariums.
I knew some folks get their gravel from building supply places, but
had no idea about the types of sand that can be used too.
Is it prepared the same way, just rinse and use?

That's also what I'm trying to find out. I would think even this coarse
builder's sand would be hard to rinse. I don't mind cloudy water in the
tank for a few days but wouldn't want it all the time.
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:04 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:
>> Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to
>> mix
>> concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may
>> be
>> the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming
>> the
>> bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
>> vacc'ed at all.
> ~~~~~
> No, traction sand is what you carry in the winter to put under your wheels
> if you get stuck in the snow and ice. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is fine
> gravel in the 1/16" to 1/8" range. I sift out the finer stuff and throw
> it away.
>
> It may be different in your area - I live in eastern Washington state.
>
> I haven't had any problems yet with gunk on the bottom, but I have a herd
> of Maylasian trumpet snails in each tank :-).

OK, I'm not familiar with traction sand. We don't get a lot of snow and ice
here but will ask for it the next time I hit Lowe's, ACE or HD. Only
mystery snails are available here and they die in less than a month. I have
no idea why.
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[eekamouse]

On Oct 9, 1:45 pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:04 -0500, Reel McKoi wrote:
> >> Are you talking about the stuff in bags called "builders sand" used to
> >> mix
> >> concrete? I haven't heard of it called traction or tube sand. They may
> >> be
> >> the same product. Where did you buy it? True, plants do make vacuuming
> >> the
> >> bottom difficult but fear the bottom will become a nitrate factory if not
> >> vacc'ed at all.
> > ~~~~~
> > No, traction sand is what you carry in the winter to put under your wheels
> > if you get stuck in the snow and ice. About 2/3 to 3/4 of it is fine
> > gravel in the 1/16" to 1/8" range. I sift out the finer stuff and throw
> > it away.
>
> > It may be different in your area - I live in eastern Washington state.
>
> > I haven't had any problems yet with gunk on the bottom, but I have a herd
> > of Maylasian trumpet snails in each tank :-).
>
> OK, I'm not familiar with traction sand. We don't get a lot of snow and ice
> here but will ask for it the next time I hit Lowe's, ACE or HD. Only
> mystery snails are available here and they die in less than a month. I have
> no idea why.
> --
>
> RM....
> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Too bad most FW enthusiasts do not pasy as much attention to "cleanup"
crews as SW folks do. There is all kinds of suitable clean up critters
out there but they are pretty drab looking as compared to sal****er
critters, so therefore they tend to be ignored. Thats one reason they
are hard to find in most LFS as no one is gonna buy that drabold
critter when they can get a flashy pictus cat or a golden nugget
pleco..........

RM.any of the sand with the exception of calcium based (old castle or
southdown) is fine. So just look for grain size that suits you. If
in doubt if its calcium (limestone based) take a smallbottle of
vinegar with you and apply a couple of drops to the sand or gravel and
if it fizzes its limestone or calcium based...........which would not
b e good unless its used in a african cichlid environment. You'll
find the calcium / limestone based sands moreinthe paver section as
they tend to quarry rocks and grind it and its limestone they usually
use for that.........and it can be usually a grey or white in color.
Silica or quartz based looks like sugar and is uniformin grain size
(about like sugar|) and plain silica based masonary is a tan to yellow
color and is commonly used in m,asonary work / concrete etc. I wold
not pay any attention to tube, traction or what have you as it matters
not. Its just a packaging and nameing game so do not let the package
name sway you one way or the other. Look for color and grain size and
what type of sand it is.not its intended use. If its stated for
masonary or concrete or playsand you can pretty well guaraantee its
free of mud and mica particles, and only needs a good washing. They
also sell a sand called river run which is commonly sucked form river
bottoms and is a brown in color. It is usually washed by the dredge
company prior to it being marketed and it too is used in masonary and
is perfectly suitable, but I have never seen it in bagged packs, only
huge outdoor piles.

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"eekamouse" > wrote in message
ups.com...
Too bad most FW enthusiasts do not pasy as much attention to "cleanup"
crews as SW folks do. There is all kinds of suitable clean up critters
out there but they are pretty drab looking as compared to sal****er
critters, so therefore they tend to be ignored. Thats one reason they
are hard to find in most LFS as no one is gonna buy that drabold
critter when they can get a flashy pictus cat or a golden nugget
pleco..........

This may be true. I have 3 albino corys, a rubberlip pleco and 2 clown
plecos which I almost never see. The clown loaches also seem to like
checking out the gravel.

RM.any of the sand with the exception of calcium based (old castle or
southdown) is fine. So just look for grain size that suits you. If
in doubt if its calcium (limestone based) take a smallbottle of
vinegar with you and apply a couple of drops to the sand or gravel and
if it fizzes its limestone or calcium based...........which would not
b e good unless its used in a african cichlid environment. You'll
find the calcium / limestone based sands moreinthe paver section as
they tend to quarry rocks and grind it and its limestone they usually
use for that.........and it can be usually a grey or white in color.
Silica or quartz based looks like sugar and is uniformin grain size
(about like sugar|)

That's one of the sands I use to mix with potting soil for for my cacti and
succulents.

and plain silica based masonary is a tan to yellow
color and is commonly used in m,asonary work / concrete etc.

This is the other sand I have, the one I was thinking on putting in the 55g,
nixed with a fine brown gravel from Lowe's.

I wold
not pay any attention to tube, traction or what have you as it matters
not. Its just a packaging and nameing game so do not let the package
name sway you one way or the other. Look for color and grain size and
what type of sand it is.not its intended use. If its stated for
masonary or concrete or playsand you can pretty well guaraantee its
free of mud and mica particles, and only needs a good washing. They
also sell a sand called river run which is commonly sucked form river
bottoms and is a brown in color. It is usually washed by the dredge
company prior to it being marketed and it too is used in masonary and
is perfectly suitable, but I have never seen it in bagged packs, only
huge outdoor piles.

Thanks for this information. I have plenty of time to check around the
different stores. I'm kind of busy this time of year repotting and working
with all my houseplants so this tank wont be filled until maybe the end of
the month. :-)
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[eekamouse]

On Oct 10, 9:59 am, Tynk > wrote:
> On Oct 9, 1:42?pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
>
> > I just know about the concrete type
> > and the tube (or traction) sand.
> > Right now I've got 4 tubes of it on the garage floor waiting until
> > winter. = )
>
> > Tubes? ?What do you mean "tubes" of it? ?Here it's sold in 50lb bags like
> > the play sand.
>
> I know exactly what you mean. The paper bagged ones...same as the
> concrete mix bags.
> Tube sand is basically how the bag it comes in is shaped. It's a long
> tube form. The bag is some type of really tuff plastic, and they're
> about maybe 2 1/2 feet long or so. Mine are 60 pounds each.
> They're great for a little added weight over the rear axle of vehicles
> that tend to slide around in the winter (vans, trucks, little hotrods
> like mine, hehe).

The only thing that slides around on TY|NK is her new dick in her
panties and her tiny brain in that big ****ing head of hers!

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
I know exactly what you mean. The paper bagged ones...same as the
concrete mix bags.
Tube sand is basically how the bag it comes in is shaped. It's a long
tube form. The bag is some type of really tuff plastic, and they're
about maybe 2 1/2 feet long or so. Mine are 60 pounds each.
They're great for a little added weight over the rear axle of vehicles
that tend to slide around in the winter (vans, trucks, little hotrods
like mine, hehe).
=========================
Gotcha! ;-)
--
RM....

~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Richard Sexton]

I've used fine beach sand for over a decade. And builders sand which
needs to be rinsed well.

You always end up siphoning some out when you chnage water. Maybe a tablespoon
or so per 5 gal bucket. Every few years I add maybe a handful of new sand.

It's not a big deal.

The nice thing is nothing can get stuck in gaps like what happens
with courser grained gravels.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Reel McKoi > wrote:
>
>"Jeffrey St. Clair, Ph.D." > wrote in
>message ...
>> Are you referring to play type sand?
>
>No, not the play sand. It's too fine.
>

Works ok for me:

http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2000/Mar26/

>I was afraid it would go anaerobic from fine mulm if I used just sand or a
>sand mix and didn't or couldn't vac it.

I count on it being anaerobic at the bottom of 4-5" of sand. I put a half inch
layer of manure under there plus some washers and steel wool. Under anaerobic
conditions the iron is reduced to a state usable by plants.

I've found roots just utterly tangled around washes like they were sucking
the iron right of if like a life-saver (UK: polo mint).

I also notife on crypt roots that the top 2-3" of root will be white
while the bottom half will look like it has rust on it. Which is pretty
much whats happening.

I dunno if you folks have ever pulled plants in nature but aquatic
substrates are frequently anaerobic.

I've kept shrimp in these tanks long term, which meand no ammonia
and no metal ions getting into the water column. Either even in the
smallest amounts would kill shrimp in short order.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Reel McKoi > wrote:
>>
>>"Jeffrey St. Clair, Ph.D." > wrote in
>>message ...
>>> Are you referring to play type sand?
>>
>>No, not the play sand. It's too fine.
>>
>
> Works ok for me:
>
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2000/Mar26/
>
>>I was afraid it would go anaerobic from fine mulm if I used just sand or a
>>sand mix and didn't or couldn't vac it.
>
> I count on it being anaerobic at the bottom of 4-5" of sand. I put a half
> inch
> layer of manure under there plus some washers and steel wool. Under
> anaerobic
> conditions the iron is reduced to a state usable by plants.
>
> I've found roots just utterly tangled around washes like they were sucking
> the iron right of if like a life-saver (UK: polo mint).
>
> I also notife on crypt roots that the top 2-3" of root will be white
> while the bottom half will look like it has rust on it. Which is pretty
> much whats happening.
>
> I dunno if you folks have ever pulled plants in nature but aquatic
> substrates are frequently anaerobic.
>
> I've kept shrimp in these tanks long term, which meand no ammonia
> and no metal ions getting into the water column. Either even in the
> smallest amounts would kill shrimp in short order.
=========================================
I don't think that would work too well in an aquariumn containing fish.
What fish are in your aquariums?
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>
> The nice thing is nothing can get stuck in gaps like what happens
> with courser grained gravels.
============================
At this time I'm using the finest gravel I could find and vac it on a
regular basis.
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Reel McKoi > wrote:
>I don't think that would work too well in an aquariumn containing fish.
>What fish are in your aquariums?

http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image39x.jpg
http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image19s.jpg
http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Oct/
http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/1999/Dec28/
http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image25.jpg
http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image29a.jpg
http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image31.jpg

Over the years there have been "a few killifish", "a few dozen tetras"
and at one point over 300 endlers. It's a 25 gallon tank.

I had puffers in there once too to get rid of the snails.


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Reel McKoi > wrote:
>>I don't think that would work too well in an aquariumn containing fish.
>>What fish are in your aquariums?
>
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image39x.jpg
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image19s.jpg
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Oct/
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/1999/Dec28/
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image25.jpg
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image29a.jpg
> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image31.jpg
>
> Over the years there have been "a few killifish", "a few dozen tetras"
> and at one point over 300 endlers. It's a 25 gallon tank.
>
> I had puffers in there once too to get rid of the snails.
=============================
Beautiful plants. Is Aquanet your website?
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Richard Sexton]

In article >,
Reel McKoi > wrote:
>
>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> Reel McKoi > wrote:
>>>I don't think that would work too well in an aquariumn containing fish.
>>>What fish are in your aquariums?
>>
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image39x.jpg
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image19s.jpg
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Oct/
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/1999/Dec28/
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image25.jpg
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image29a.jpg
>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image31.jpg
>>
>> Over the years there have been "a few killifish", "a few dozen tetras"
>> and at one point over 300 endlers. It's a 25 gallon tank.
>>
>> I had puffers in there once too to get rid of the snails.
>=============================
>Beautiful plants. Is Aquanet your website?

I'm not sure what "aquanet" is but aquaria.net is mine and has been since about 93 or so.
It says that on the front page of http://aquaria.net


--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

[NetMax]

On Oct 26, 3:39 pm, (Richard Sexton) wrote:
> In article >,
>
>
>
>
>
> Reel McKoi > wrote:
>
> >"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> In article >,
> >> Reel McKoi > wrote:
> >>>I don't think that would work too well in an aquariumn containing fish.
> >>>What fish are in your aquariums?
>
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image39x.jpg
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image19s.jpg
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Oct/
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/1999/Dec28/
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image25.jpg
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image29a.jpg
> >>http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image31.jpg
>
> >> Over the years there have been "a few killifish", "a few dozen tetras"
> >> and at one point over 300 endlers. It's a 25 gallon tank.
>
> >> I had puffers in there once too to get rid of the snails.
> >=============================
> >Beautiful plants. Is Aquanet your website?
>
> I'm not sure what "aquanet" is but aquaria.net is mine and has been since about 93 or so.
> It says that on the front page ofhttp://aquaria.net
>
> --
> Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
> Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff:http://mbz.org
> 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages:http://rs79.vrx.net
> 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD |http://aquaria.nethttp://killi.net- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've had mixed results with sand. If it's too fine in an unplanted
tank, it can compact. Forgetting the name (what is "play" sand will
vary store to store), avoid really fine sands and look for coarse.
Malaysian Trumpet snails can be useful to churn sand. I've got a 120g
with Profile brand sand. The plants love it but I find it's a little
too light for my liking. I can live with the losses during vacuuming,
but I'll need to reduce the water's turbulence, so it should work very
well in many applications.

I'm not keen on white sand as it shows debris too quickly and seems to
foster more algae (more reflected light at the sand's surface?). I
personally don't think that fish are very comfortable with too much
light coming UP at them. Highlights their presence to airborn
predators (try explaining to them there are no birds in your house ;~)

NetMax

[Marco Schwarz]

Hi..

NetMax wrote:

@ Richard:
>> I'm not sure what "aquanet" is but aquaria.net is
>> mine and has been since about 93 or so.
>> It says that on the front page ofhttp://aquaria.net

;-)

@ NM:
> I've had mixed results with sand. If it's too fine in an unplanted
> tank, it can compact.

Well but compact sand won't be a prob for the most useful aquarium plants..

> Forgetting the name (what is "play" sand will vary store to store)

ACK..

> , avoid really fine sands and look for coarse.

ACK..

Tried out filter sand - pool supply..?

> Malaysian Trumpet snails can be useful to churn sand.

Hm.., have had several cold water tanks with fine sand but no MTS (never had
any probs)..

> The plants love it but I find it's a little
> too light for my liking.

River sands weren't too bride..

> I'm not keen on white sand as it shows debris too quickly

Hm.., no prob for fine to coarse sand..

> and seems to
> foster more algae (more reflected light at the sand's surface?).

In the beginning - and until some floating plants might reduce this effect
to an acceptable limit..

> I
> personally don't think that fish are very comfortable with too much
> light coming UP at them. Highlights their presence to airborn
> predators

Jein..

> (try explaining to them there are no birds in your house ;~)

NM, you're a real pet fish whisperer..! :-)

--
cu
Marco

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Reel McKoi > wrote:
>>
>>"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article >,
>>> Reel McKoi > wrote:
>>>>I don't think that would work too well in an aquariumn containing fish.
>>>>What fish are in your aquariums?
>>>
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image39x.jpg
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Sep/29/Image19s.jpg
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2004/Oct/
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/1999/Dec28/
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image25.jpg
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image29a.jpg
>>> http://images.aquaria.net/tanks/rjs/tk-1/2003/Oct10/Image31.jpg
>>>
>>> Over the years there have been "a few killifish", "a few dozen tetras"
>>> and at one point over 300 endlers. It's a 25 gallon tank.
>>>
>>> I had puffers in there once too to get rid of the snails.
>>=============================
>>Beautiful plants. Is Aquanet your website?
>
> I'm not sure what "aquanet" is but aquaria.net is mine and has been since
> about 93 or so.
> It says that on the front page of http://aquaria.net
=============
Sorry, that's the site I meant. I'm planning to spend some time there right
now. :-)
--

RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"NetMax" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm not keen on white sand as it shows debris too quickly and seems to
> foster more algae (more reflected light at the sand's surface?). I
> personally don't think that fish are very comfortable with too much
> light coming UP at them. Highlights their presence to airborn
> predators (try explaining to them there are no birds in your house ;~)
====================
Lowe's carries what's called a coarse builders sand which is a brown color.
It's also called "all purpose" sand. The play sand here is so fine it's
almost powdery. I would be afraid a child would inhale the power and damage
it's lungs.
--
RM....
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 28, 3:52?pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
>> Lowe's carries what's called a coarse builders sand which is a brown
>> color.
>> It's also called "all purpose" sand. The play sand here is so fine it's
>> almost powdery. I would be afraid a child would inhale the power and
>> damage
>> it's lungs.
>> --
>> RM....
>> ~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{( >
>
> Me too.
> Having asthma, it would be something that affect me right away.

It made me sneeze. I have to use it in my cactus potting mix when it's very
calm outside. I then mix up a large batch of sandy soil for them and keep
it damp to keep down the sand dust. I can't believe they sell this for
children to play in.

> I remember as a kid playing in sand that was very dusty. Not a good
> combo.
> It always had to be wetted down with water, but some places had sand
> that was obviously better and had hardly any dust.

The playgrounds where I grew up only had sand at the bottom of slides and
under swings. We didn't play in it. Never thought to play in it.

> Niether of my kids liked to play in sand, so I wasn't about to push
> it. lol

If they decide they want to... get the coarse builders sand. Less fines and
dust. I think I'm going to use it when I set up the other 55g tank. I'll
give it a try. I'll mix it with the fine brown gravel from Lowe's. I did
buy some more fish and spent 9 hours acclimating them. I'll be diluting my
tap water (liquid limestone rocks) with rain water from now on. I skipped
the neon's though until I can get enough rain water to get the PH below 7.8
and the hardness lower. The Sherpae tetras and redtail rasboras adapted
great. The clowns have learned to come to the top to eat so are doing fine.
:-)
--

RM....
..
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Bran Everseeking]

I think the idea solution for a light coloured sand is availible from pool
supply shops as filter sand.

good size and its clean.

Bran