cleaning heavily planted or Rocky tanks ???

[al]

Hi folks,

I would like ideas on how you folks gravel vac heavily planted tanks or
those with large rock piles etc

I have a planted krebensis / "community" tank - that I would like to more
heavily plant - like many of the example tanks some of you have but I have
kept the plants spaced out so I can vaccum between them (once per month). I
do water changes once per week

Like wise my malawi cichlid tank (66g) I have kept only 3 rock piles rather
than quite extensive rock piles along the back to mimick the malawi
environment simply because alot of crud accumulates under these rock and I
am not sure How I would get under these rocks if I had a very extensive
along the back pile- and taking out a large number and rearranging every
month doesn't sound like fun for me or the fish- is this the ony way or are
there other options

Thanks
Al

[Mark Stone]

"al" > wrote in message >...
> Hi folks,
>
> I would like ideas on how you folks gravel vac heavily planted tanks or
> those with large rock piles etc
>
> I have a planted krebensis / "community" tank - that I would like to more
> heavily plant - like many of the example tanks some of you have but I have
> kept the plants spaced out so I can vaccum between them (once per month). I
> do water changes once per week
>
> Like wise my malawi cichlid tank (66g) I have kept only 3 rock piles rather
> than quite extensive rock piles along the back to mimick the malawi
> environment simply because alot of crud accumulates under these rock and I
> am not sure How I would get under these rocks if I had a very extensive
> along the back pile- and taking out a large number and rearranging every
> month doesn't sound like fun for me or the fish- is this the ony way or are
> there other options
>
> Thanks
> Al

If you want to vacuum the gravel thoroughly, I don't see any way
around moving and replacing the rocks and plants. However, I've always
questioned the need for so frequent water changes/vacuuming (much to
the dismay of other regulars here at RAFC!) I do water changes only
every third month or so, depending on the results of chemical tests.
Others that hang around here do them weekly -- and, believe me, we've
had some discussions! However, their tanks are working wonderfully and
so are mine, so I let it lie. But in my experience we can maintain
healthy aquaria with quite a bit less frequent vacuums and water
changes, and if you're brave enough to take that option here's the
tricks:

-- NEVER overfeed the aquarium. Nevernevernevernever.
-- ALWAYS remove reasonable organic waste immediately (dead fish, dead
plant matter, uneaten food if you can get it, etc.)
-- Filter the heck out of it, preferably with trickle or some other
wet/dry. I use Bio-Wheels, myself.
-- Keep a keen eye on lighting and temperature. If you keep those two
factors constant, and if the aquarium's bio-load is constant, you can
tell when to do water changes by the occurance of sudden surges in
algae growth. (Yeah, I hear everyone laughing and lifting up their
eyebrows! But it's how we did it in the "old days" and it still
works!)

If you ARE afraid to take that option, then the weekly changes and the
monthly vacuuming aren't going to hurt anything, certainly, but I
don't see any way out of moving everything!

--Crazy Old Mark

Mark Stone tractorlegs at msn dot kom
OSCAR Lovers! http://www.geocities.com/cichlidiot_2000/oscar.html
The ".Edu" meens i are smart.

[Jeff Dantzler]

> "al" > wrote in message news:

>> I would like ideas on how you folks gravel vac heavily planted tanks or
>> those with large rock piles etc

You can always fire up a diatom filter and leave it running all day.

If you suck half the water out first, it will work better.

You can use a high pressure water jet (from sump return, powerhead, etc.)
to periodically "blow" debris out of tight spots and it will get sucked up
by the diatom filter.

I wouldn't recommend sucking up the gravel to clean it in a well-established,
successful planted tank.

JLD

[al]

>
> I wouldn't recommend sucking up the gravel to clean it in a
well-established,
> successful planted tank.
>
> JLD


ok but do you suck up the surface at all. I guess I am asking if you don't
suck up the fish solid waste - does it naturally break down to safe
byproducts. I have heard of catfish (cory ) loosing barbs becasue of dirty
gravel etc. any thoughts

thanks

Al

[al]

> -- NEVER overfeed the aquarium. Nevernevernevernever.


I try to do this but my cichlids get a sucken stomach - and look overly thin
with small once/day feedings or every second day. I wondered if they have
some form of low grade intestinal parasite or if I just need to feed them
enough for them to have a nice rounded stomach ??


-- ALWAYS remove reasonable organic waste immediately (dead fish, dead
> plant matter, uneaten food if you can get it, etc.)

ok

> -- Filter the heck out of it, preferably with trickle or some other
> wet/dry. I use Bio-Wheels, myself.

I have two fluval 404s in the 66 gallon

> If you ARE afraid to take that option, then the weekly changes and the
> monthly vacuuming aren't going to hurt anything, certainly, but I
> don't see any way out of moving everything!

Well - i guess it is fear - but no doubt your suggestion probably makes for
less drastic water change effects, but is it better for the fish to be in as
pure a water as possible (ie low nitrates etc) even though they can live
with much higher levels??

I mean if cost wasn't an issue would it be best for the tank to be
constantly getting clean water with the overflow down the drain ???


Thanks

al


> --Crazy Old Mark
>
> Mark Stone tractorlegs at msn dot kom
> OSCAR Lovers! http://www.geocities.com/cichlidiot_2000/oscar.html
> The ".Edu" meens i are smart.

[Rich Conley]

your cichlids should like like they dont have a stomach...

IE its not noticeable...not sunken in, but not round. Just straight....figure
out what you need to feed to get them this way.

al wrote:

> > -- NEVER overfeed the aquarium. Nevernevernevernever.
>
> I try to do this but my cichlids get a sucken stomach - and look overly thin
> with small once/day feedings or every second day. I wondered if they have
> some form of low grade intestinal parasite or if I just need to feed them
> enough for them to have a nice rounded stomach ??
>
> -- ALWAYS remove reasonable organic waste immediately (dead fish, dead
> > plant matter, uneaten food if you can get it, etc.)
>
> ok
>
> > -- Filter the heck out of it, preferably with trickle or some other
> > wet/dry. I use Bio-Wheels, myself.
>
> I have two fluval 404s in the 66 gallon
>
> > If you ARE afraid to take that option, then the weekly changes and the
> > monthly vacuuming aren't going to hurt anything, certainly, but I
> > don't see any way out of moving everything!
>
> Well - i guess it is fear - but no doubt your suggestion probably makes for
> less drastic water change effects, but is it better for the fish to be in as
> pure a water as possible (ie low nitrates etc) even though they can live
> with much higher levels??
>
> I mean if cost wasn't an issue would it be best for the tank to be
> constantly getting clean water with the overflow down the drain ???
>
> Thanks
>
> al
>
> > --Crazy Old Mark
> >
> > Mark Stone tractorlegs at msn dot kom
> > OSCAR Lovers! http://www.geocities.com/cichlidiot_2000/oscar.html
> > The ".Edu" meens i are smart.

[Jeff Dantzler]

al > wrote:

> ok but do you suck up the surface at all. I guess I am asking if you don't
> suck up the fish solid waste - does it naturally break down to safe
> byproducts. I have heard of catfish (cory ) loosing barbs becasue of dirty
> gravel etc. any thoughts

I try to suck whatever is in the surface out. What I meant was not to go
disturbing the gravel as in penetrating the surface. I have not heard of
catfish losing barbs brcause of dirty gravel. They might get nipped off
by a cichlid though... Nanacara anomala are famous for beating on catfish.

Cheers,

JLD

[al]

"Jeff Dantzler" > wrote in message
news:1064339846.144337@yasure...
> al > wrote:
>
> > ok but do you suck up the surface at all. I guess I am asking if you
don't
> > suck up the fish solid waste - does it naturally break down to safe
> > byproducts. I have heard of catfish (cory ) loosing barbs becasue of
dirty
> > gravel etc. any thoughts
>
> I try to suck whatever is in the surface out. What I meant was not to go
> disturbing the gravel as in penetrating the surface. I have not heard of
> catfish losing barbs brcause of dirty gravel. They might get nipped off
> by a cichlid though... Nanacara anomala are famous for beating on catfish.
>
> Cheers,
>
> JLD


Thanks
Al

[al]

"Rich Conley" > wrote in message
.. .
> your cichlids should like like they dont have a stomach...
>
> IE its not noticeable...not sunken in, but not round. Just
straight....figure
> out what you need to feed to get them this way.
>

ok thanks
Al