Poll: How long will the big Sword plant survive with the big Goldfish

[Bill Stock]

I've got a horrendous outbreak of BGA in my Goldfish tank. It's gotten so
bad it plugs the filter screens every week and now the sink drain is
plugged.

So I plucked the large Sword out of my office tank (20 G) and put in a bowl
of gravel in the GF tank. I'm hoping it's big enough to outgrow the GF
nibbling and reduce the Nitrates. It was getting way too big for the office
anyway. The first day I put it in the tank they hid in the other corner away
from the large green thing. But now they have discovered that it's covered
in Snails as they cruise through the leaves. I was informed that they did
not want their food today. No wonder, they've been eating Escargot all day.

In the past they've pretty much destroyed everything I put in the tank with
them; they either eat it or dig it up. It does not matter that they are not
supposed to like that variety of plant. I was watching them swim by the
plant tonight and they were giving me the "who us, eat your plant" look.
LOL.

We shall see.

[Reel McKoi[_10_]]

"Bill Stock" > wrote in message
...
> I've got a horrendous outbreak of BGA in my Goldfish tank. It's gotten so
> bad it plugs the filter screens every week and now the sink drain is
> plugged.

How many GF and what size are they? How many gallons is the tank? How often
are you doing partial water changes? It sounds like some major partial
water changes are in order.

> So I plucked the large Sword out of my office tank (20 G) and put in a
> bowl of gravel in the GF tank. I'm hoping it's big enough to outgrow the
> GF nibbling and reduce the Nitrates.

Forget the plant. It sounds like the tank is in desperate need of water
changes.

It was getting way too big for the office
> anyway. The first day I put it in the tank they hid in the other corner
> away from the large green thing. But now they have discovered that it's
> covered in Snails as they cruise through the leaves. I was informed that
> they did not want their food today. No wonder, they've been eating
> Escargot all day.
>
> In the past they've pretty much destroyed everything I put in the tank
> with them; they either eat it or dig it up. It does not matter that they
> are not supposed to like that variety of plant. I was watching them swim
> by the plant tonight and they were giving me the "who us, eat your plant"
> look. LOL.
>
> We shall see.

My GF seldom damage the plants. GF are browers and nibble all day long.
Perhaps you need to feed them more often.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

[Bill Stock]

"Tynk" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 30, 7:34?pm, "Bill Stock" > wrote:
>> I've got a horrendous outbreak of BGA in my Goldfish tank. It's gotten so
>> bad it plugs the filter screens every week and now the sink drain is
>> plugged.
>>
>> So I plucked the large Sword out of my office tank (20 G) and put in a
>> bowl
>> of gravel in the GF tank. I'm hoping it's big enough to outgrow the GF
>> nibbling and reduce the Nitrates. It was getting way too big for the
>> office
>> anyway. The first day I put it in the tank they hid in the other corner
>> away
>> from the large green thing. But now they have discovered that it's
>> covered
>> in Snails as they cruise through the leaves. I was informed that they did
>> not want their food today. No wonder, they've been eating Escargot all
>> day.
>>
>> In the past they've pretty much destroyed everything I put in the tank
>> with
>> them; they either eat it or dig it up. It does not matter that they are
>> not
>> supposed to like that variety of plant. I was watching them swim by the
>> plant tonight and they were giving me the "who us, eat your plant" look.
>> LOL.
>>
>> We shall see.
>
> Sorry I didn't read your post until now, but the subject (sword
> plants) isn't where my knowledge is.
> Outside the house...I have a gorgeous flower garden...inside the house
> and fish tanks....I can kill the *un-killable* plants. = /
> However, your problem with BGA (Cyanobacteria) is easily cured Maracyn
> (1) or any straight erythromicin antibiotic.
> However, it has to be that one, not some other antibiotic.
> If you are having nitrate problems, you need to up your water changes,
> gravel vacuuming, and figure out why.
> What size tank is it, and how many (sizes too) Goldies do you have in
> it?
> When it comes to Cyanobacteria, you have 2 options. Kill it or battle
> it.
> To kill it, you treat it with antibiotics, just like any other
> bacterial infection. To battle it, you'll need to keep pristine water,
> starve it of nitrates, no sunlight, turn your lights off for longer
> periods of time, and check your phosphate level.
> Cyano feeds off all 3, but only needs one to keep it thriving.


Yes Erythromycin will kill off BGA.

Oddly enough I gave my filters a thorough cleaning (discovered the intake
tubes were partially blocked) and the BGA has all but gone. BGA hates
current too. It was hiding some other type of algae, like string algae, only
shorter.


There are 3 GF, one 8", one 6" and one 3+". I used to have two small ones,
but he died of dropsy a few weeks ago. I have no gravel and they get bathed
every week (50% water change). Giving them the plant has caused a
Columnaris outbreak, likely due to some sort of parasite. They're on
Kanamycin now and doing better. Potassium Permanganate (I've got a lifetime
supply) has been suggested, but it always kills the biofilter.

[Cshenk]

"Bill Stock" wrote

> There are 3 GF, one 8", one 6" and one 3+". I used to have two small
> ones, but he died of dropsy a few weeks ago. I have no gravel and they get
> bathed every week (50% water change). Giving them the plant has caused a
> Columnaris outbreak, likely due to some sort of parasite. They're on
> Kanamycin now and doing better. Potassium Permanganate (I've got a
> lifetime supply) has been suggested, but it always kills the biofilter.

Question, how big is the tank? I'm sure you have lots of filteration going
on but if your tank is at pretty close to max capacity, probems like this
erupt over and over. I'm not suggesting you kill any of the fish if
overloaded, just checking options here.

I've heard the suggestion of 10g per inch of goldfish for perfect health and
based on anticipated growth, that would mean a 200g tank (rediculous, I
agree). I hope though you have something like a 70g going there?

[Cshenk]

"Tynk" wrote
> On Nov 8, 11:22?am, "Cshenk" > wrote:
>
>> I've heard the suggestion of 10g per inch of goldfish for perfect health
>> and
>> based on anticipated growth, that would mean a 200g tank (rediculous, I
>> agree). I hope though you have something like a 70g going there?
>
> I think it's possible you heard the common goldie *rule* of 10g *per*
> goldie, not per inch of goldie.

Possibly. 10g though for larger one sounds pretty wrong too. I've gone
with pretty much 5g per inch of goldies. That has worked for me. I've had
enough 'overage' with that to have a few other things compatible with them
in there.

> However, that rule isn't actually right as differrent types of Goldies
> grow to differrent sizes. A 16" comet or common is going to need a
> larger tank than an 8" fancy, so the 10g per goldie rule isn't right
> anyway.

Yup.

> I too asked what size tank this was we are talking about, but it was
> skipped over. = /

Probably accidental there. That or he has a really small tank and possibly
suspects someplace that this is related. Fellow is doing 50% water changes
so there might be cycling problems (possibly caused by the various
medications as he infers someplace).

While goldies are extremely hardy to many things, being ovecrowded isnt
really one of them. The dropsy sounds like a symptom of an overloaded tank
to me but cant tell for sure.

Bill, if your tank is 40g or smaller, I think thats the real root cause of
the problem. I know tans are expensive but if you could get a second 40G or
so and put the bigger one by itself, it will be better.

[Bill Stock]

"Cshenk" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Tynk" wrote
>> On Nov 8, 11:22?am, "Cshenk" > wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard the suggestion of 10g per inch of goldfish for perfect health
>>> and
>>> based on anticipated growth, that would mean a 200g tank (rediculous, I
>>> agree). I hope though you have something like a 70g going there?
>>
>> I think it's possible you heard the common goldie *rule* of 10g *per*
>> goldie, not per inch of goldie.
>
> Possibly. 10g though for larger one sounds pretty wrong too. I've gone
> with pretty much 5g per inch of goldies. That has worked for me. I've
> had enough 'overage' with that to have a few other things compatible with
> them in there.
>
>> However, that rule isn't actually right as differrent types of Goldies
>> grow to differrent sizes. A 16" comet or common is going to need a
>> larger tank than an 8" fancy, so the 10g per goldie rule isn't right
>> anyway.
>
> Yup.
>
>> I too asked what size tank this was we are talking about, but it was
>> skipped over. = /
>
> Probably accidental there. That or he has a really small tank and
> possibly suspects someplace that this is related. Fellow is doing 50%
> water changes so there might be cycling problems (possibly caused by the
> various medications as he infers someplace).
>
> While goldies are extremely hardy to many things, being ovecrowded isnt
> really one of them. The dropsy sounds like a symptom of an overloaded
> tank to me but cant tell for sure.
>
> Bill, if your tank is 40g or smaller, I think thats the real root cause of
> the problem. I know tans are expensive but if you could get a second 40G
> or so and put the bigger one by itself, it will be bette



No tank is 75 gallons, but probably still too small.

Cycle is fine, last time I lost the cycle was about two years ago when I
tread with P.P.. I lost only ONE fish to dropsy recently. His similar sized
cousin is the only one not currently sick. Kanamycin is helping and their
medicated food came today.

Fish got sick when I added the plant, so I assumed it was not a coincidence.
The fish in the office tank (home office) are doing fine, but they are all
tropicals.

I've got a 90 gallon and LARGE (50 gallon) external filter waiting to
happen, but I've been too busy to get it done.

[Cshenk]

"Bill Stock" <wrote

>> possibly suspects someplace that this is related. Fellow is doing 50%
>> water changes so there might be cycling problems (possibly caused by the
>> various medications as he infers someplace).
>>
>> While goldies are extremely hardy to many things, being ovecrowded isnt
>> really one of them. The dropsy sounds like a symptom of an overloaded
>> tank to me but cant tell for sure.
>>
>> Bill, if your tank is 40g or smaller, I think thats the real root cause
>> of the problem. I know tans are expensive but if you could get a second
>> 40G or so and put the bigger one by itself, it will be bette
>
> No tank is 75 gallons, but probably still too small.

Ok, you should be fine. (8+6+3)x5=17x5=85 and you are close to it. The 1
who died of dropsy *may* be related to overcrowding combined with disease.

> Cycle is fine, last time I lost the cycle was about two years ago when I
> tread with P.P.. I lost only ONE fish to dropsy recently. His similar
> sized cousin is the only one not currently sick. Kanamycin is helping and
> their medicated food came today.

How big was the one who died? If it was 8' or 6', that would be overload I
think?

> Fish got sick when I added the plant, so I assumed it was not a
> coincidence. The fish in the office tank (home office) are doing fine, but
> they are all tropicals.

Goldies are wierd. Hardy as hell at somet hings and very delicate with
others. Yes, may have just been the plant. Or rather, someting in the
tropical tank used to treat those fish that the goldies will not take well.


> I've got a 90 gallon and LARGE (50 gallon) external filter waiting to
> happen, but I've been too busy to get it done.


Grin, put the 90G filter on your goldie tank. The are 'dirty fish'. Oh, add
gravel as it helps keep the nasty stuff out of their gills as they swim
about. It's simple to siphon te gravel clean with a mere hose unless you
have itty bitty fish in the same tank.

[Bill Stock]

"Cshenk" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Stock" <wrote
>
>> No tank is 75 gallons, but probably still too small.
>
> Ok, you should be fine. (8+6+3)x5=17x5=85 and you are close to it. The 1
> who died of dropsy *may* be related to overcrowding combined with disease.
>
>> Cycle is fine, last time I lost the cycle was about two years ago when I
>> tread with P.P.. I lost only ONE fish to dropsy recently. His similar
>> sized cousin is the only one not currently sick. Kanamycin is helping and
>> their medicated food came today.
>
> How big was the one who died? If it was 8' or 6', that would be overload
> I think?
>

I had five fish in this tank for a long time, two BIG ones (6+" then) a
medium (5" then) and the two little ones (2+" then). About two years ago
they got sick (mostly Biggie #2). We tried everything, PP, water changes,
but lost the Cycle and things got worse. Biggie #2 went back to the pond as
a last resort to save her. She lasted another 1 & 1/2 seasons in the pond,
but we lost her last winter with a couple of others. That was our biggest
loss. Once I get them into the big tank with the large filter I hope to get
them beyond ten years.

[Bill Stock]

"Cshenk" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Stock" wrote
>
>
>>> Ok, you should be fine. (8+6+3)x5=17x5=85 and you are close to it. The
>>> 1 who died of dropsy *may* be related to overcrowding combined with
>>> disease.
>>
>> I had five fish in this tank for a long time, two BIG ones (6+" then) a
>> medium (5" then) and the two little ones (2+" then). About two years ago
>> they got sick (mostly Biggie #2). We tried everything, PP, water changes,
>
> ok, (6+6+5+2+2)x5=21x5= 'overload' for 75g tank. Take out one of the 6'
> fellows and you are back to load you have now, where problems started.

The five fish are past tense, now down to 3.

No doubt the five were too many, just as the 3 are borderline now.


> Makes sense? As the fish got bigger, they overloaded the tank and
> problems started.
>
>> loss. Once I get them into the big tank with the large filter I hope to
>> get them beyond ten years.
>
> The larger filter will help alot. I'm making a reasonable guess that when
> your fish load with current filter conditons hits about 16inches total,
> tank starts to destabilize. A bigger filter will shift that to allow for
> more fish load but if you lose power and have no way to run the filter,
> you may well lose all the fish if you cant put them in the pond quick. Oh,
> the same general idea pertains to the pond which robably isnt running any
> type of airation (sp?) to assist so it's load potential possibly is even
> less than 10g per inch fish. I do not know much about pond fish but I do
> know if you overload it, they will die too.


Pond is undergoing renovations so the fish are in their indoor bucket (300
g) + filter. But normally the pond has a waterfall and fountain during the
warmer months and a bubbler during the winter. I'm not sure how many fish
there are, maybe 12 at 2.5 + four fry.

[Cshenk]

"Bill Stock" wrote


>> Ok, you should be fine. (8+6+3)x5=17x5=85 and you are close to it. The
>> 1 who died of dropsy *may* be related to overcrowding combined with
>> disease.
>
> I had five fish in this tank for a long time, two BIG ones (6+" then) a
> medium (5" then) and the two little ones (2+" then). About two years ago
> they got sick (mostly Biggie #2). We tried everything, PP, water changes,

ok, (6+6+5+2+2)x5=21x5= 'overload' for 75g tank. Take out one of the 6'
fellows and you are back to load you have now, where problems started.

Makes sense? As the fish got bigger, they overloaded the tank and problems
started.

> loss. Once I get them into the big tank with the large filter I hope to
> get them beyond ten years.

The larger filter will help alot. I'm making a reasonable guess that when
your fish load with current filter conditons hits about 16inches total, tank
starts to destabilize. A bigger filter will shift that to allow for more
fish load but if you lose power and have no way to run the filter, you may
well lose all the fish if you cant put them in the pond quick. Oh, the same
general idea pertains to the pond which robably isnt running any type of
airation (sp?) to assist so it's load potential possibly is even less than
10g per inch fish. I do not know much about pond fish but I do know if you
overload it, they will die too.