Re: RM...........here are some links to some good sites that have the proper bulbs [Archive]

Tynk[_4_]

December 23rd 07, 02:08 AM

On Dec 21, 6:02*pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
> "TSJ of course" > wrote in ...
> *By the way, unlike like lamps> specialy made for aquariums, ordinary house lamps would not light up
> > the whole aquarium the same way.
>
> ====================
> OK, the sites just sell bulbs. There's no explanation of what's best for FW
> tanks or tanks with algae problems. *Now the problem with my buying bulbs to
> help with the algae would be a hard sell to my husband since the Flourish
> Excel fiasco. *I was assured over and over that algae turns white and falls
> off when FE is used. Although I found that almost impossible to believe,
> like a fool I bought the stuff. * I bought a lot of it, and it's totally
> useless. *Then the same man from the plant group tried to get me to purchase
> some other expensive crap from his friend who sells fertilizers. *I can
> spend well over $100 on bulbs and still have the algae problem. *So you can
> see why I hesitate to start buying expensive bulbs when the FE did nothing..
> --
>
> RM....
> Zone 6. *Middle TN USA
> ~~~~ *}<((((*> *~~~ * }<{{{{(ö>

YOu should be able to get bulbs for approx 12-15 bucks
each.............and since your gonna have to start somewhere go with
the Coralife Nutri Grow Plant Lamps. NO guarantee though as I am not a
plant kind of person, so you may have to try another type of bulb if
that did not work. A few more things is really needed to help with
the picking of the bulbs though. DSo these lights thata you have set
on top of the aquarium frame or are they suspended over the tanks,
and how high are the bulbs from the water surface and tank substrate?
2, 40watt bulbs ought to be plenty of light for a 55 gal
tank..............I prefer the compact florescent fixtures myself,
over NO types of florescent tubes, but they will cost more initially
and for bulb replacements every 12 months or so........but they pack a
lot more watts into the same areas than NO types of florescents do.
Those places that sell bulbs all have discriptions of the bulbs and
what to use them for........Coralifes "aqualight" is super when it
comes to aquarium lighting, but it will set you back better than a C
note for a 55 gal tank...............Please explain how you have the
lights installed over the tanks.............and are you using a
polished metallic reflector or a plain white reflector.

YOU can call Hello lights or any of these other places and talk to
associates. Hello lights is especially knowledgeable..........AH
Supply makes a great compact florescent light assembly that can be
retrofit into the typical strip lights commonly found on a lot of
aquariums......(standard basic strip light as supplied by factory
which nornmally has tube florescent light bulb in it) YOU can pack
lots more wattage in that same area with a retro kit from AH
supply...........probably be easy to put 2 x 96 or 2 x 65 watt CF
lights in the typical strip light / hood with minimal renovating a
typical hood.........and then you could easily grow virtually
anything. I just put two 55 watt PC lights over a 29 gal tank in
original strip light (1 x 18 watt bulb standard) and its super
bright............and I have no doubt its bright enough to allow me to
plant more Helvola water lilys in that tank as well....and have them
bloom all year round.......

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 25th 07, 01:55 AM

"Tynk" > wrote in message
...

YOu should be able to get bulbs for approx 12-15 bucks
each.............

* I would need 8 of them so that's kind of out of the question unless I know
for sure they'd get rid of the algae.

and since your gonna have to start somewhere go with
the Coralife Nutri Grow Plant Lamps. NO guarantee though as I am not a
plant kind of person, so you may have to try another type of bulb if
that did not work. A few more things is really needed to help with
the picking of the bulbs though. DSo these lights thata you have set
on top of the aquarium frame or are they suspended over the tanks,
and how high are the bulbs from the water surface and tank substrate?

* They're shop lights that sit right on the tank's rim about 2" from the
water's surface.

2, 40watt bulbs ought to be plenty of light for a 55 gal
tank.............

* Not if you want to grow plants. All I got were spindly sickly plants and
diatoms with only 2, 40w bulbs.

..I prefer the compact florescent fixtures myself,
over NO types of florescent tubes, but they will cost more initially
and for bulb replacements every 12 months or so........but they pack a
lot more watts into the same areas than NO types of florescents do.
Those places that sell bulbs all have discriptions of the bulbs and
what to use them for........Coralifes "aqualight" is super when it
comes to aquarium lighting, but it will set you back better than a C
note for a 55 gal tank...............Please explain how you have the
lights installed over the tanks.............and are you using a
polished metallic reflector or a plain white reflector.

* They're just the cheap white shop reflectors sold in all the Hope Depot
type stores for under $15. They sit side by side on the tank's rim.

YOU can call Hello lights or any of these other places and talk to
associates. Hello lights is especially knowledgeable..........AH
Supply makes a great compact florescent light assembly that can be
retrofit into the typical strip lights commonly found on a lot of
aquariums......(standard basic strip light as supplied by factory
which nornmally has tube florescent light bulb in it)

* These tanks didn't come with Aquarium strip lights. I've always just had
shop lights on them.

YOU can pack
lots more wattage in that same area with a retro kit from AH
supply...........probably be easy to put 2 x 96 or 2 x 65 watt CF
lights in the typical strip light / hood with minimal renovating a
typical hood........

* I don't have those regular tank strips for the 55s, they're just the 10s.
I use 2 40w CFs on the 10s and plants thrive.

..and then you could easily grow virtually
anything. I just put two 55 watt PC lights over a 29 gal tank in
original strip light (1 x 18 watt bulb standard) and its super
bright............and I have no doubt its bright enough to allow me to
plant more Helvola water lilys in that tank as well....and have them
bloom all year round.......

* These are just common shop lights that I put cool white and warm white
bulbs in. Before I spend "big bucks" on bulbs that may make no more
difference than the Flourish Excel made, I'll let the plants die and use
water lettuce and hornwart. Together they'll just shade and starve the algae
out but that is very dissapointing. Having live plants in my tanks is all
part of the "fishy" scene.

I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. Massive water changes
and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

December 25th 07, 03:40 PM

On Dec 24, 7:55*pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
> "Tynk" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> YOu should be able to get bulbs for approx 12-15 bucks
> each.............
>
> * I would need 8 of them so that's kind of out of the question unless I know
> for sure they'd get rid of the algae.
>
> and since your gonna have to start somewhere go with
> the Coralife Nutri Grow Plant Lamps. NO guarantee though as I am not a
> plant kind of person, so you may have to try another type of bulb if
> that did not work. *A few more things is really needed to help with
> the picking of the bulbs though. DSo these lights *thata you have set
> on top of the aquarium frame *or are they suspended over the tanks,
> and how high are the bulbs from the water surface and tank substrate?
>
> * They're shop lights that sit right on the tank's rim about 2" from the
> water's surface.
>
> 2, 40watt bulbs ought to be plenty of light for a 55 gal
> tank.............
>
> * *Not if you want to grow plants. All I got were spindly sickly plants and
> diatoms with only 2, 40w bulbs.
>
> .I prefer the compact florescent fixtures myself,
> over NO types of florescent tubes, but they will cost more initially
> and for bulb replacements every 12 months or so........but they pack a
> lot more watts into the same areas than NO types of florescents do.
> Those places that sell bulbs all have discriptions of the bulbs and
> what to use them for........Coralifes "aqualight" is super when it
> comes to aquarium lighting, but it will set *you back better than a C
> note for a 55 gal tank...............Please explain how you have the
> lights installed over the tanks.............and are you using a
> polished metallic reflector or a plain white reflector.
>
> * *They're just the cheap white shop reflectors sold in all the Hope Depot
> type stores for under $15. They sit side by side on the tank's rim.
>
> YOU can call Hello lights or any of these other places and talk to
> associates. Hello lights is especially knowledgeable..........AH
> Supply makes a great compact florescent light assembly that can be
> retrofit into the typical strip lights commonly found on a lot of
> aquariums......(standard basic strip light as supplied by factory
> which nornmally has tube florescent light bulb in it)
>
> * These tanks didn't come with Aquarium strip lights. I've always just had
> shop lights on them.
>
> YOU can pack
> lots more wattage in that same area with a retro kit from AH
> supply...........probably be easy to put 2 x 96 or 2 x 65 watt CF
> lights in the typical strip light / hood with minimal renovating a
> typical hood........
>
> * I don't have those regular tank strips for the 55s, they're just the 10s..
> I use 2 40w CFs on the 10s and plants thrive.
>
> .and then you could easily grow virtually
> anything. I just put two 55 watt PC lights over a 29 gal tank in
> original strip light (1 x 18 watt *bulb standard) *and its *super
> bright............and I have no doubt its bright enough to allow me to
> plant more Helvola water lilys in that tank as well....and have them
> bloom all year round.......
>
> * These are just common shop lights that I put cool white and warm white
> bulbs in. *Before I spend "big bucks" on bulbs that may make no more
> difference than the Flourish Excel made, I'll let the plants die and use
> water lettuce and hornwart. Together they'll just shade and starve the algae
> out but that is very dissapointing. *Having live plants in my tanks is all
> part of the "fishy" scene.
>
> I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. *Massive water changes
> and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either.
> --
>
> RM....
> Zone 6. *Middle TN USA
> ~~~~ *}<((((*> *~~~ * }<{{{{(ö>

OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with
reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the
reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so
yuo get decent light dispersion. The light reflected is made to
disperse out and cover a wide area (cone of dispersion) and that they
are that close to a tank and only have a short distance to travel
until the light hits the substrate and is reflected out or back,. odds
are the majority of your light is being reflected "OUTSIDE" the tank
itself, and not as much inside the tank as you really think is there.
White reflectors is sufficient in most cases for a shop light however
it does little to nothing for good results in a fish tank, but its
still better than black. I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
more than 2x40Wattaers of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater palnts
you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank..............People
underestimate the reflectors on a fish tank and next to the proper
lamp itself they are very important. If yu have the right light bulb,
and can not get it to disperse properly you may as well use any old
lamp as your not getting the full benefit out of them.

I am sure you or your better half can nail and cut a few boards.Why
not get some 1 x 6 pine and fashion up a quick and dirty wooden hood
for a fish tank (do one tank to start) nothuing needs to b e fancey,
and just look at how some hoods are made in places like Petco er ah
make that Deathco. A simple wooden frame box, with a few slats of 1 x
2 spaced apart on top to allow heat and ventilation to escape, and
also provides a place to mount lights under. If yu want some pics I
can post URL of a few sites that has simple yet effective aquarium
hoods that are easy enough to make. Then pay Big Als or another online
vendor a call, and purchase proper reflectors and attach them to the
metal white reflectors all ready on yuor shop lights......or retro fit
ballast and sockets etc from shop lights into the wooden hood..and
install proper bulbs......................done..............a quick
stain is all thats needed to finish it off..............and maybe a
top coat of clear sealer like polyurethane or varnish............I can
just about guarantee, your black algae problems will be over and you
can grow virtually any freshwater plant around then in these
aquariums. The lights would be a much different inmprovement that
will be benefical and work. Flourish Excel may work but its not going
to take the palce of having a proper lighting setup. The lights you
have now are fine and dandy for a fish only tank or with a few low
light requirement plants, but still leave a lot to b e desired overall
as the color specturm and kelvin is totally wrong. Your plants as well
as your fish will all look and grow better, well the plants will
anyhow, because fish for thr most part are not reliant on linghts like
a plant is, but I bet the colors in the fish will be much more
vibrant. I believe lighting is about the most important item that can
be done to a fish tank that is going to have live plants or corals in
p lace and the person with the tank is totally committed to having
nice plants and corals growing, than almost any other thing that can
be done to a tank. Heck even the cheapest filters around will do a
decent job of what they are designed for, but a light is not that
way.............a cheap light setup will not do a thing for a fish
tank other than provide illumination for the tanks owner to see whats
inside..................Once proper lights are in place it may take a
few weeks to a month or two to get lighting schedule worked out, but
odds are in that time frame your plants are gonna start to kick ass
and things will look better every day.............Like I said propper
bulbs and reflectors in a home brew hood is not even in the same
league as adding supplements to a tank..........

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 25th 07, 05:28 PM

"AquariumFatasies" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 24, 7:55 pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
> I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. Massive water
> changes
> and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with
reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the
reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so
yuo get decent light dispersion.

* No. They have the shade thing on the sides to direct the light downward.
They come that way. The tanks are very bright.

The light reflected is made to
disperse out and cover a wide area (cone of dispersion) and that they
are that close to a tank and only have a short distance to travel
until the light hits the substrate and is reflected out or back,. odds
are the majority of your light is being reflected "OUTSIDE" the tank
itself,

* The light is reflected down due to the side things on the reflectors.

and not as much inside the tank as you really think is there.
White reflectors is sufficient in most cases for a shop light however
it does little to nothing for good results in a fish tank, but its
still better than black. I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
more than 2x40Wattaers of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater palnts
you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank.

* These provide enough LIGHT to grow plants successfully - until the algae
starts growing on them. Once the algae attacks them, either the red (I call
black) or green algae, their growth stops. I was told that Flourish Excel
would kill off the algae by an old timer on these groups. That wasn't true.
It seems to stimulate the algae.

..............People
underestimate the reflectors on a fish tank and next to the proper
lamp itself they are very important. If yu have the right light bulb,
and can not get it to disperse properly you may as well use any old
lamp as your not getting the full benefit out of them.

* Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they
guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and
throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that
allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae.

I am sure you or your better half can nail and cut a few boards.Why
not get some 1 x 6 pine and fashion up a quick and dirty wooden hood
for a fish tank (do one tank to start) nothuing needs to b e fancey,
and just look at how some hoods are made in places like Petco er ah
make that Deathco. A simple wooden frame box, with a few slats of 1 x
2 spaced apart on top to allow heat and ventilation to escape, and
also provides a place to mount lights under. If yu want some pics I
can post URL of a few sites that has simple yet effective aquarium
hoods that are easy enough to make. Then pay Big Als or another online
vendor a call, and purchase proper reflectors and attach them to the
metal white reflectors all ready on yuor shop lights......or retro fit
ballast and sockets etc from shop lights into the wooden hood..and
install proper bulbs.

* I'm not at all handy with tools and making things out of wood. And how
will that get rid of the algae? Also, I really don't want to have to lift a
heavy wood hood every time I feed the fish or want to remove algae from the
front glass. I never heard of any reflectors or bulbs that caused plants to
thrive but not algae. I can't afford to try one bulb after the other.....

......................done..............a quick
stain is all thats needed to finish it off..............and maybe a
top coat of clear sealer like polyurethane or varnish............I can
just about guarantee, your black algae problems will be over and you
can grow virtually any freshwater plant around then in these
aquariums.

* Why would the algae problems be over? The Flourish Excel was supposed to
do that and it does nothing. It doesn't even help the plants grow. It's a
rip-off like so many products these days. I don't follow your logic here
with the wood reflector. The units come with shade type reflectors that
direct the light downwards.

The lights would be a much different inmprovement that
will be benefical and work. Flourish Excel may work but its not going
to take the palce of having a proper lighting setup.

* What bulbs are the proper bulbs that allow plant but not algae growth? I
found no such bulbs online. Which are you using?

The lights you
have now are fine and dandy for a fish only tank or with a few low
light requirement plants, but still leave a lot to b e desired overall
as the color specturm and kelvin is totally wrong.

* Then what is the correct spectrum and Kelvin to allow plant but not algae
growth and do they guarantee them or will I go broke replacing bulbs?

Your plants as well
as your fish will all look and grow better, well the plants will
anyhow, because fish for thr most part are not reliant on linghts like
a plant is, but I bet the colors in the fish will be much more
vibrant. I believe lighting is about the most important item that can
be done to a fish tank that is going to have live plants or corals in
p lace and the person with the tank is totally committed to having
nice plants and corals growing, than almost any other thing that can
be done to a tank. Heck even the cheapest filters around will do a
decent job of what they are designed for, but a light is not that
way.............a cheap light setup will not do a thing for a fish
tank other than provide illumination for the tanks owner to see whats
inside..................

Once proper lights are in place

* Which are the proper lights and do they guarantee no algae? The Flourish
Excel was supposed to take care of algae.

it may take a
few weeks to a month or two to get lighting schedule worked out, but
odds are in that time frame your plants are gonna start to kick ass
and things will look better every day...........

* Yep! That's what they said on the plant NG (RAFP) about the Flourish
Excel.

...Like I said propper
bulbs and reflectors in a home brew hood is not even in the same
league as adding supplements to a tank..........

Eveyone tells me something different. The FE was supposed to do magic along
with water changes and gravel vacuuming. They swore that was the answer. A
homemade hood is out of the question. I don't know anyone who could make it
for me and I don't want to have to lift down a heavy wood hood every time I
want to feed my fish. I see no connection between a homemade hood and alge.

So which bulbs are guaranteed to get rid of the algae and did you have the
same conditions I have? If they're not guaranteed to work I wont keep
throwing money away on bulb after bulb.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Larry Blanchard

December 25th 07, 06:22 PM

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:40:31 -0800, AquariumFatasies wrote:

> I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
> more than 2x40Watters of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
> reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater plants
> you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank.

I'm not so sure about that. They may be sufficient at first, but light
output seems to drop off fairly quickly. I've had good luck with the
proverbial 2 watts per gallon in tanks of normal depth.

Even then I'd use the Tropica website and stay away from any plants they
describe as needing high light.

As far as a homemade reflector, I used aluminum flashing in a couple of
homemade hoods. Certainly no work of art, but seems to work. Just make
sure the flashing you buy is polished on at least one side.

Larry Blanchard

December 25th 07, 06:26 PM

On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:28:59 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:

> * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they
> guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and
> throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that
> allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae.

There is no easy solution to algae. If it's the flat type that grows on
the glass, I just scrape it off the front and leave it on the sides and
back. If it's the hairy type that grows on the plants and the gravel, the
only solution I've found is manual removal. As soon as you see algae on a
leaf, cut off that leaf. I've sometimes removed as much as half of a
plant at one time. They always grow back :-).

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

December 25th 07, 07:19 PM

On Dec 25, 12:22*pm, Larry Blanchard > wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:40:31 -0800, AquariumFatasies wrote:
> > *I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
> > more than 2x40Watters of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
> > reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater plants
> > you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. *They may be sufficient at first, but light
> output seems to drop off fairly quickly. *I've had good luck with the
> proverbial 2 watts per gallon in tanks of normal depth.
>
> Even then I'd use the Tropica website and stay away from any plants they
> describe as needing high light.
>
> As far as a homemade reflector, I used aluminum flashing in a couple of
> homemade hoods. *Certainly no work of art, but seems to work. *Just make
> sure the flashing you buy is polished on at least one side.

Biggest problem on making ones own reflectors is if they are not bent
exactly right for the diameter of the bulb used, the distance of bulb
from bottom of reflector, and from the sides of said reflector, and
from the substrate and the width of tank where you want yur light to
be at, all it does is create a false sense of ample lights but it does
little but look like it works better.......sxure it will be better
than nothiong, but what happens is called "restrike" which is whenm
light output hits the reflector and it reflected back at the bul
again, and then back at the reflector...and this happens over and over
with that light being lost bouncing back and forth. It adds heat
energy to a florescent tube which also shortens the lifespan and kills
phosphors off faster, and does little if anyhting to use the light the
bulb gives off to its fullest advantage. There is alot more involved
in making a reflector. There is a online program that gives the proper
bend angles and dimensions for use with various sized and types of
tubes like T8 or T5 or T12's etc etc and even compact florescents.
You'll find that most if not all reflectors will have more than a
simple U shaped bend in them and none will have a typical rounded
radius bend. They all a have faceted angles to reflect light from bulb
to reflector to water or from reflector to another spot on the
reflector and then into the water, but not back on the bulb itself to
any real amount. Even those reflectors you get in the strip lights
are a real joke........Wanna waste some money.buy some T-5 lights and
use reflectors you make or that were suitable for tyopical T8. 12 or
16 bulbs...............Its been proven that your better off without
any reflectors if you do not use the proper reflectors with those
bulbs (T-5 are approx 1/2 or 5/8" diam and are the latest in aquarium
lighting and cost big bucks as do proper reflectors for them) But
using improper reflectors with those T5's results in extremely poor
output of lighting plus extreme heat build up and veryshort life of T5
bulbs. A lot of foks tried to cut corners on reflectors and got bit!
If you think a good factory made reflector is expensive check out the
price for a good T5 reflector.........pricey!

A scotch brite pad and 0000 steel wool will polish up tyupical
aluminum flashing and its better than white reflectors any
day.............

Getting riod of algae is a process of experimenting as everyuones
tanks are different, as is available natural light sources that
infiltrate in the room, as is room lighting and evenminutes lights are
on or off, as well as a heap of other variables. All anyone can do is
suggest a somewhat in the ball park range to start at and then go one
way or another from there. It may involve buying different light
bulbs again, experimenting with plants used, time of lighting etc
etc..........but it can be done.........................Reef tanks are
doomed if algae builds up in most cases, yet folks with a bit of
perserverance do conquer the problems and win..My reef tanks as well
as the majority of my FW are all pretty well free of rampany bkliooms
of any kind of algae except for what I want growiong in there, and it
did take considerable time to get them that way..........and yes ,I
did buy a lot of bulbs over the years and still continue to do so
almost every year when I plonk a few bills down to replace ALL my
florescent tubes but its still worth it overall to not be eat up with
alage and to have a nice tank with minimal maintenance to enjoy it.
Even paintinmg the back of the tank with say black paint to eliminmate
light from coming in is good. Its better than those backgrounds they
sell which stil allows light to some degree and always look so tacky.
Regular latex paint does a great job of blocking light from theback of
the tank and in 99% of the cases it gives great contrast to planats,
substrate and fish in a tank than any stick on background could do.
Itys easy to remove with a razor blade scraper to.........and it
matters not what you use in regards to flat or gloss as it all looks
like gloss through the glass..plus the added benefit of hiding cords
and filters etc etc.

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 25th 07, 11:26 PM

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:28:59 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:
>
>> * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are
>> they
>> guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and
>> throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb
>> that
>> allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae.
>
> There is no easy solution to algae. If it's the flat type that grows on
> the glass, I just scrape it off the front and leave it on the sides and
> back. If it's the hairy type that grows on the plants and the gravel, the
> only solution I've found is manual removal. As soon as you see algae on a
> leaf, cut off that leaf. I've sometimes removed as much as half of a
> plant at one time. They always grow back :-).
===============================
It's the velvety red (black) algae that covers and smothers the plants. It
doesn't grow on one leaf or a few leaves but covers everything including the
glass and gravel. I scrape it off the glass but can't get it off plants.
They'd be leafless. Then there's the short soft green algae. But there's
not too much of the green stuff. It hit like gangbusters when I changed the
old cool and warm bulbs a few weeks back. They were over a year old. It
could have been a coincidence though. I had something like this happen
about 2 years ago and it disappeared, on it's own, as quickly as it
appeared.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(Ã¶>

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

December 26th 07, 12:10 AM

On Dec 25, 5:26*pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
> "Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
>
> ...> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 11:28:59 -0600, Reel McKoi wrote:
>
> >> * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? *And are
> >> they
> >> guaranteed to work? *If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and
> >> throwing out one bulb after another? *I honestly never heard of a bulb
> >> that
> >> allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae.
>
> > There is no easy solution to algae. *If it's the flat type that grows on
> > the glass, I just scrape it off the front and leave it on the sides and
> > back. *If it's the hairy type that grows on the plants and the gravel, the
> > only solution I've found is manual removal. *As soon as you see algae on a
> > leaf, cut off that leaf. *I've sometimes removed as much as half of a
> > plant at one time. *They always grow back :-).
>
> ===============================
> It's the velvety red (black) algae that covers and smothers the plants. *It
> doesn't grow on one leaf or a few leaves but covers everything including the
> glass and gravel. *I scrape it off the glass but can't get it off plants..
> They'd be leafless. *Then there's the short soft green algae. *But there's
> not too much of the green stuff. *It hit like gangbusters when I changed the
> old cool and warm bulbs a few weeks back. They were over a year old. *It
> could have been a coincidence though. *I had something like this happen
> about 2 years ago and it disappeared, on it's own, as quickly as it
> appeared.
> --
>
> RM....
> Zone 6. *Middle TN USA
> ~~~~ *}<((((*> *~~~ * }<{{{{(ö>

The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant
leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or
black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this
stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water
parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow.

If its a cyano type algae often called red slime or black slime then
an anti-biotic dose will knock this stuff out as its just like ther
blue green algae that is often seen with a new tank when it gets
cloudy looking. Maracin (sp?) will work as will Red Slime Remover,
which is normally sold for sal****er tanks but works well in
freshwater tanks too.............but the process of using an
antibiotic to knock it out will also affect yur bio filtration as well
so pull your media and place in another tank until your treatment is
over with........

Hair algae can be good up to a point anyhow, but control how much and
what you feed and that usually handles HA pretty well.........along
with proper lightin g scheduels etc. You may not be able to Eliminate"
algae, but its certainly possible to keep it under control and managed
so its not a problem, even if a bit of it is there. Not much overall
that can be done for the light algae that will grow on the glass
except routine clenaing of glass with a MAG float etc, as just room
lights can kick that stuff into growing........

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 26th 07, 04:17 AM

"AquariumFatasies" > wrote in message
...

The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant
leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or
black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this
stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water
parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow.

* This is another issue. I have to add more current. I thought of that
also. All I have are the Aquaclears at one end of these 55g tanks. I need to
replace the air-pump and stones. I also have powerheads but they always get
clogged with plant debris in these tanks so I removed them. They're not
made to go on tubes so I can't hook sponges on them.

If its a cyano type algae often called red slime or black slime then
an anti-biotic dose will knock this stuff out as its just like ther
blue green algae that is often seen with a new tank when it gets
cloudy looking. Maracin (sp?) will work as will Red Slime Remover,
which is normally sold for sal****er tanks but works well in
freshwater tanks too.............but the process of using an
antibiotic to knock it out will also affect yur bio filtration as well
so pull your media and place in another tank until your treatment is
over with........

* No, it's not cyano. I haven't had that problem in years.

Hair algae can be good up to a point anyhow, but control how much and
what you feed and that usually handles HA pretty well.........along
with proper lightin g scheduels etc. You may not be able to Eliminate"
algae, but its certainly possible to keep it under control and managed
so its not a problem, even if a bit of it is there. Not much overall
that can be done for the light algae that will grow on the glass
except routine clenaing of glass with a MAG float etc, as just room
lights can kick that stuff into growing........

* That green algae doen't kill the plants like this black-red stuff does.
This stuff is also very ugly making the tank look filthy. I'm going to pick
up the HP in town this week.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Randy Webb

December 26th 07, 10:01 AM

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/25/2007 11:17 PM:
>
> "AquariumFatasies" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> The so called devils algae or black algae normally only covers plant
> leaves or filter media..........it is usually a very dark green or
> black in color algae. HP method I described in other pst wil kill this
> stuff but the key is keeping it gone and thats gonna take good water
> parameters, proper lights and sufficieint current flow.
>
> * This is another issue. I have to add more current. I thought of that
> also. All I have are the Aquaclears at one end of these 55g tanks. I
> need to replace the air-pump and stones. I also have powerheads but
> they always get clogged with plant debris in these tanks so I removed
> them. They're not made to go on tubes so I can't hook sponges on them.

One thing you can do for filters is what I did in my tank. I had 2 power
heads that didn't have the pieces on the bottom for the "tube" (for an
undergravel filter) on them. I found two rocks that had holes in them
(you can find them at the Pet Stores), made the holes large enough for
the filters I wanted to use, put the filter in the rock, then used zip
ties to fasten the powerhead to the rock. Then I put four small rocks
under the corners to "raise" it off the gravel. To date, I have not had
any problems with them. Having the large rock up off the bottom allows
the water flow from the bottom instead of creating a "dead zone" around
the base of the rock. Then I put the rocks where I couldn't see them
(behind plants).

The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to
get the flow pattern that I wanted.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 27th 07, 12:59 AM

"Randy Webb" > wrote in message
...
>
Brevity snips

> The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to get
> the flow pattern that I wanted.
=======================
Mine will stay in place. The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with
plant debris. Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots
and clog up the impeller. :(
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

December 27th 07, 03:11 AM

On Dec 26, 6:59*pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
> "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> Brevity snips
>
> > The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to get
> > the flow pattern that I wanted.
>
> =======================
> Mine will stay in place. *The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with
> plant debris. Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots
> and clog up the impeller. *:(
> --
>
> RM....
> Zone 6. *Middle TN USA
> ~~~~ *}<((((*> *~~~ * }<{{{{(ö>

Get some Maxi or Mini Jet powerheads............I have them in my
freshwater tanks along with onion plants, and cabomba etc which is bad
about always getting in powerheads or filters, and ity has yet to clog
em up. Maxi Jets are perhaps the best powerheads out there and are the
most efficieint. I like Aqua Clear hob filters, but their power heads
leave a lot to be desired whencompared to Maxi Jets...........Hydor is
also a great power head and pretty well clog free. All come with a
nice big intake strainer also, and the Maxi Jets come with an air
venturi as well..........One thing Maxi Jets and Mini Jets are noted
for and that is they are very efficieint and do not add as much latent
heat to the water as Aqua clears and RIO and some other powerheads
do...............You can get a foam sleeve for them also that fits
over the intake strainer for use if there are baby fish etc in the
tank. They also make a powerhead well not exactly a powerhead but a
current generator, which is like a propeller in a cage about the size
of a typical powerhead, and it uses the flow from ther propeller to
create currents, and its supposed to be clog free due to its
design.........IIRC Hydor makes one as does Maxi Jet who is made by
Aquarium Phamaceuticals IIRC or it may be Seachem.....

Randy Webb

December 27th 07, 05:04 AM

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/26/2007 7:59 PM:
>
> "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> Brevity snips
>
>> The biggest problem I had was fooling with them to get the situated to
>> get the flow pattern that I wanted.
> =======================
> Mine will stay in place.

It wasn't so much getting them to stay still that I had the problem
with. With it "locked" into the rock, I couldn't lean it to get a more
upward flow that I wanted and the directional attachment didn't quite
give me the direction I wanted.

> The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris.

When I do water changes, I simply pick the rock up, pull the filter out
the bottom, rinse it off in a bucket, and put it back. So far, I get
very little debris on it and what I do get easily rinses off.

> Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake
> slots and clog up the impeller. :(

That is why I put the filter in the rock. I couldn't attach it to the
power head because of the way they were made. So, I used the rock to
hold the filter and power-head so that the power-head can only pull
water through the filter. The filter keeps the power-head from becoming
clogged.

The two "rocks" that I have (they aren't actually true rocks) look like
someone pulled a post out of the ground that was concreted in. Then took
the concrete and cut it into 4 inch sections so that they have square
holes in the middle. I cut filters to fit into that hole and then have
it pull through the filter. In the end, about all the rocks do is give
me a stable place to hold the filter and power head where they are
stable with one another.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
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Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 27th 07, 10:38 PM

"AquariumFatasies" > wrote in message
...
Get some Maxi or Mini Jet powerheads............I have them in my
freshwater tanks along with onion plants, and cabomba etc which is bad
about always getting in powerheads or filters, and ity has yet to clog
em up. Maxi Jets are perhaps the best powerheads out there and are the
most efficieint. I like Aqua Clear hob filters, but their power heads
leave a lot to be desired whencompared to Maxi Jets...........Hydor is
also a great power head and pretty well clog free. All come with a
nice big intake strainer also, and the Maxi Jets come with an air
venturi as well..........One thing Maxi Jets and Mini Jets are noted
for and that is they are very efficieint and do not add as much latent
heat to the water as Aqua clears and RIO and some other powerheads
do...............You can get a foam sleeve for them also that fits
over the intake strainer for use if there are baby fish etc in the
tank. They also make a powerhead well not exactly a powerhead but a
current generator, which is like a propeller in a cage about the size
of a typical powerhead, and it uses the flow from ther propeller to
create currents, and its supposed to be clog free due to its
design.........IIRC Hydor makes one as does Maxi Jet who is made by
Aquarium Phamaceuticals IIRC or it may be Seachem.....
======================================
MaxiJet... that sounds familiar. I may have a few stored in the outbuilding
now that I think of it. I have to check out there....
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 27th 07, 10:44 PM

"Randy Webb" > wrote in message
...
> Reel McKoi said the following on 12/26/2007 7:59 PM:
>
>> The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris.
>
> When I do water changes, I simply pick the rock up, pull the filter out
> the bottom, rinse it off in a bucket, and put it back. So far, I get very
> little debris on it and what I do get easily rinses off.

OK, mine are made so there is no filter on the bottom but Roy reminded me
about some I have stored. As I recall they have an intake strainer I can
pull a sponge over to prevent clogging. My other powerheads not made the
same.

>> Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots and clog up
>> the impeller. :(
>
> That is why I put the filter in the rock.

What filter? These powerheads have no filter?!?!?! They have slots where
the water is sucked in and a outflow tube.

I couldn't attach it to the
> power head because of the way they were made. So, I used the rock to hold
> the filter and power-head so that the power-head can only pull water
> through the filter. The filter keeps the power-head from becoming clogged.

Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all of
these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a sponge
over.

> The two "rocks" that I have (they aren't actually true rocks) look like
> someone pulled a post out of the ground that was concreted in. Then took
> the concrete and cut it into 4 inch sections so that they have square
> holes in the middle. I cut filters to fit into that hole and then have it
> pull through the filter. In the end, about all the rocks do is give me a
> stable place to hold the filter and power head where they are stable with
> one another.

You have the type of powerhead that comes with a strainer then. I'm hoping
I have one or two out in storage.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Randy Webb

December 28th 07, 07:58 AM

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/27/2007 5:44 PM:
>
> "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Reel McKoi said the following on 12/26/2007 7:59 PM:
>>
>>> The problem is the intake slots clog quickly with plant debris.
>>
>> When I do water changes, I simply pick the rock up, pull the filter
>> out the bottom, rinse it off in a bucket, and put it back. So far, I
>> get very little debris on it and what I do get easily rinses off.
>
> OK, mine are made so there is no filter on the bottom but Roy reminded
> me about some I have stored. As I recall they have an intake strainer I
> can pull a sponge over to prevent clogging. My other powerheads not
> made the same.

One of mine is not made with an intake strainer. The other one I removed
the intake strainer from it.

>>> Or bits of plant debris get pulled through the intake slots and clog
>>> up the impeller. :(
>>
>> That is why I put the filter in the rock.
>
> What filter? These powerheads have no filter?!?!?! They have slots
> where the water is sucked in and a outflow tube.

You have to make your own filter or use a different power head. The
power heads that I have in my plant tank, one doesn't have an intake
strainer (it isn't made to have one) and the other has an intake
strainer that I removed. I removed the strainer from it because the
strainer was too tall for where I wanted to use it.

Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution I
came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in
Petco). It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole. Then,
you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for the
power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the power head
has to go through that filter.

Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the filter.
What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable ties. They
sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at Lowes and
Home Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.

The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the filter
wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the filter, then
Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are going to have to
be innovative or change power heads.

> I couldn't attach it to the
>> power head because of the way they were made. So, I used the rock to
>> hold the filter and power-head so that the power-head can only pull
>> water through the filter. The filter keeps the power-head from
>> becoming clogged.
>
> Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all of
> these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a sponge
> over.

I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to come
up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if my wife
hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish at the
dock that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog food into
the tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to clear it up
without having to change all the water.

>> The two "rocks" that I have (they aren't actually true rocks) look
>> like someone pulled a post out of the ground that was concreted in.
>> Then took the concrete and cut it into 4 inch sections so that they
>> have square holes in the middle. I cut filters to fit into that hole
>> and then have it pull through the filter. In the end, about all the
>> rocks do is give me a stable place to hold the filter and power head
>> where they are stable with one another.
>
> You have the type of powerhead that comes with a strainer then. I'm
> hoping I have one or two out in storage.

No. One is, one isn't. The one that is I removed it from the power head.

Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being recharged.
I have to do some work on the tank and will try to take some pictures
and post them online so you can see how I made it.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

ginko

December 28th 07, 01:56 PM

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi > wrote:
:
: "TSJ of course" > wrote in message
: ...
: By the way, unlike like lamps
: > specialy made for aquariums, ordinary house lamps would not light up
: > the whole aquarium the same way.

There is considerable hype on aquaurium bulbs. The T8 (8/8ths of an inch
wide) fluorescent lamps do pretty good job. At some big bog hardware stores,
you can get a 6500K spectrum bulb at $5.00 per 4 foot tube. It grows plants
really well for the money. Pick up one of the new-style shop lights with
an electronic ballast and a half-decent gull-wing reflector for about
$40.00. This low budget system will do a pretty good job at raising
plants. You might do better by using one 6500K tube and one plant
grow tube (Vitalight, GrowLux, ...) But this is still really cheap.

You could get better results with fancy $30.00 aquarium tubes, but they
won't be twice as good than the cheap $5.00 6500K and $15.00 plant
tubes.

: OK, the sites just sell bulbs. There's no explanation of what's best for FW
: tanks or tanks with algae problems. Now the problem with my buying bulbs to
: help with the algae would be a hard sell to my husband since the Flourish
: Excel fiasco.

I have a better luck with algae by using a 6500K bulb instead of 4100K
"cool white" or the not-very-good 3500K "warm white" tubes.

: I was assured over and over that algae turns white and falls
: off when FE is used. Although I found that almost impossible to believe,
: like a fool I bought the stuff. I bought a lot of it, and it's totally
: useless. Then the same man from the plant group tried to get me to purchase
: some other expensive crap from his friend who sells fertilizers.

: spend well over $100 on bulbs and still have the algae problem. So you can
: see why I hesitate to start buying expensive bulbs when the FE did nothing.

I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps keep
my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely noticable
algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.

However, this product is not a cure-all. It's optimal for planted tank
that grows plants pretty well that also has pesky algae. It won't
transform an unsuccessful planted tank where the plants usually die into
an Amano-style masterpiece.

g_i_n_k_o

December 28th 07, 02:32 PM

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi > wrote:
:
: "AquariumFatasies" > wrote in message
: ...
: On Dec 24, 7:55 pm, "Reel McKoi" > wrote:
: > I did add another rubberlip pleco to that tank today. Massive water
: > changes
: > and serious gravel vacuuming has made no difference either.
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with
: reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the
: reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so
: yuo get decent light dispersion.

The typical shop light reflector isn't that good, but it's not
really much worse than the polished box reflector found in the
vast majority of commercial aquarium fixtures.

Ideally, something of a parabolic reflector for each tube works
best at sending light straight down into the tank where one gets
maximum penetration in deeper tanks. A commercial (and very
expensive) fixture that does an excellent job at this is the
T5 HO TekLight.

The typical polished rectangular box doesn't send light down into
the tank, but tends to bounce it around until it hits one of the
fluorescent tubes. (The exercise of comparing a pseudo-parabolic
reflector against a rectangular box via a geometry diagram is left
to the reader.) Manufacturers compensate for the bad reflector
by adding more tubes to the unit. These fixtures do work OK and
the extra tubes aren't really much of an issue unless you have
more than a few tanks which makes one much more interested in
conserving electricity to reduce a very high electricity bill.

I grow plants with highly efficient Tek Lights, and less effective
polished box reflector fixtures. Both do OK. Medium light tanks
are more forgiving, so those tanks get my old less efficient
reflector light fixtures.

As for algae and light, it gets tricker the more light you add
to the aquarium. So for beginners, I recommend starting out with
medium light level plants with a medium light level fixture.
A cheap shop light with a simple reflector will do the job for
this. It's not as effective as one with a parabolic reflector,
but for medium light, it will be good enough.

Bulbs are _not_ the primary cause algae, it's the water conditions.
Adding more light just speeds up the growth of everything (desirable
plants and algae). Poor water conditions under medium light will
require you to monthly scrape off ugly algae. Poor water conditions
under very high light will require you to daily scrape off ugly algae.

My philosophy is that for the first year, it's better to take the
cheap route and get some successes with easy-to-grow medium light
plants than to take the expensive high risk route where it takes
some real skill and experience to keep algae at bay.

: * No. They have the shade thing on the sides to direct the light downward.
: They come that way. The tanks are very bright.
:
: The light reflected is made to
: disperse out and cover a wide area (cone of dispersion) and that they
: are that close to a tank and only have a short distance to travel
: until the light hits the substrate and is reflected out or back,. odds
: are the majority of your light is being reflected "OUTSIDE" the tank
: itself,
:
: * The light is reflected down due to the side things on the reflectors.
:
: and not as much inside the tank as you really think is there.
: White reflectors is sufficient in most cases for a shop light however
: it does little to nothing for good results in a fish tank, but its
: still better than black. I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
: more than 2x40Wattaers of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
: reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater palnts
: you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank.
:
: * These provide enough LIGHT to grow plants successfully - until the algae
: starts growing on them. Once the algae attacks them, either the red (I call
: black) or green algae, their growth stops. I was told that Flourish Excel
: would kill off the algae by an old timer on these groups. That wasn't true.
: It seems to stimulate the algae.
:
: .............People
: underestimate the reflectors on a fish tank and next to the proper
: lamp itself they are very important. If yu have the right light bulb,
: and can not get it to disperse properly you may as well use any old
: lamp as your not getting the full benefit out of them.
:
: * Which is the right bulb in preventing red and green algae? And are they
: guaranteed to work? If one doesn't work do I have to keep buying and
: throwing out one bulb after another? I honestly never heard of a bulb that
: allowed aquarium plants to thrive but not algae.
:
: I am sure you or your better half can nail and cut a few boards.Why
: not get some 1 x 6 pine and fashion up a quick and dirty wooden hood
: for a fish tank (do one tank to start) nothuing needs to b e fancey,
: and just look at how some hoods are made in places like Petco er ah
: make that Deathco. A simple wooden frame box, with a few slats of 1 x
: 2 spaced apart on top to allow heat and ventilation to escape, and
: also provides a place to mount lights under. If yu want some pics I
: can post URL of a few sites that has simple yet effective aquarium
: hoods that are easy enough to make. Then pay Big Als or another online
: vendor a call, and purchase proper reflectors and attach them to the
: metal white reflectors all ready on yuor shop lights......or retro fit
: ballast and sockets etc from shop lights into the wooden hood..and
: install proper bulbs.
:
: * I'm not at all handy with tools and making things out of wood. And how
: will that get rid of the algae? Also, I really don't want to have to lift a
: heavy wood hood every time I feed the fish or want to remove algae from the
: front glass. I never heard of any reflectors or bulbs that caused plants to
: thrive but not algae. I can't afford to try one bulb after the other.....
:
: .....................done..............a quick
: stain is all thats needed to finish it off..............and maybe a
: top coat of clear sealer like polyurethane or varnish............I can
: just about guarantee, your black algae problems will be over and you
: can grow virtually any freshwater plant around then in these
: aquariums.
:
: * Why would the algae problems be over? The Flourish Excel was supposed to
: do that and it does nothing. It doesn't even help the plants grow. It's a
: rip-off like so many products these days. I don't follow your logic here
: with the wood reflector. The units come with shade type reflectors that
: direct the light downwards.
:
: The lights would be a much different inmprovement that
: will be benefical and work. Flourish Excel may work but its not going
: to take the palce of having a proper lighting setup.
:
: * What bulbs are the proper bulbs that allow plant but not algae growth? I
: found no such bulbs online. Which are you using?
:
: The lights you
: have now are fine and dandy for a fish only tank or with a few low
: light requirement plants, but still leave a lot to b e desired overall
: as the color specturm and kelvin is totally wrong.
:
: * Then what is the correct spectrum and Kelvin to allow plant but not algae
: growth and do they guarantee them or will I go broke replacing bulbs?
:
: Your plants as well
: as your fish will all look and grow better, well the plants will
: anyhow, because fish for thr most part are not reliant on linghts like
: a plant is, but I bet the colors in the fish will be much more
: vibrant. I believe lighting is about the most important item that can
: be done to a fish tank that is going to have live plants or corals in
: p lace and the person with the tank is totally committed to having
: nice plants and corals growing, than almost any other thing that can
: be done to a tank. Heck even the cheapest filters around will do a
: decent job of what they are designed for, but a light is not that
: way.............a cheap light setup will not do a thing for a fish
: tank other than provide illumination for the tanks owner to see whats
: inside..................
:
: Once proper lights are in place
:
: * Which are the proper lights and do they guarantee no algae? The Flourish
: Excel was supposed to take care of algae.
:
: it may take a
: few weeks to a month or two to get lighting schedule worked out, but
: odds are in that time frame your plants are gonna start to kick ass
: and things will look better every day...........
:
: * Yep! That's what they said on the plant NG (RAFP) about the Flourish
: Excel.
:
: ..Like I said propper
: bulbs and reflectors in a home brew hood is not even in the same
: league as adding supplements to a tank..........
:
: Eveyone tells me something different. The FE was supposed to do magic along
: with water changes and gravel vacuuming. They swore that was the answer. A
: homemade hood is out of the question. I don't know anyone who could make it
: for me and I don't want to have to lift down a heavy wood hood every time I
: want to feed my fish. I see no connection between a homemade hood and alge.
:
: So which bulbs are guaranteed to get rid of the algae and did you have the
: same conditions I have? If they're not guaranteed to work I wont keep
: throwing money away on bulb after bulb.

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 28th 07, 05:12 PM

"Randy Webb" > wrote in message
...
>
> Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution I
> came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in Petco).
> It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole.

What are you using for a filter? A sponge on the end of the intake?

Then,
> you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for the
> power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the power head
> has to go through that filter.
>
> Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the filter.
> What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable ties. They
> sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at Lowes and Home
> Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.

What kind of sponge are you using for a filter? You can just cut a hole in
the sponge and stick the intake in it.

> The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the filter
> wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the filter, then
> Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are going to have to be
> innovative or change power heads.

So every week or so you have to clean the sponge filter and replace the
ties?

>> Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all of
>> these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a sponge
>> over.

> I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to come
> up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if my wife
> hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish at the dock
> that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog food into the
> tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to clear it up
> without having to change all the water.

If you can't find these "filters" I probably wont either. Is it a sponge? I
have no idea what you're talking about.

>
> Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being recharged. I
> have to do some work on the tank and will try to take some pictures and
> post them online so you can see how I made it.

Yes, I would love to see what they look like. :-)
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 28th 07, 05:18 PM

"g_i_n_k_o" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi >
> wrote:
> : OK, now were getting somewhere. Regular old shop lights with a with
> : reflector. That is most likely the main problem. First off, the
> : reflectors on those lights are made to reflect light from a height so
> : yuo get decent light dispersion.
>
> The typical shop light reflector isn't that good, but it's not
> really much worse than the polished box reflector found in the
> vast majority of commercial aquarium fixtures.
>
> Ideally, something of a parabolic reflector for each tube works
> best at sending light straight down into the tank where one gets
> maximum penetration in deeper tanks. A commercial (and very
> expensive) fixture that does an excellent job at this is the
> T5 HO TekLight.
>
> The typical polished rectangular box doesn't send light down into
> the tank, but tends to bounce it around until it hits one of the
> fluorescent tubes. (The exercise of comparing a pseudo-parabolic
> reflector against a rectangular box via a geometry diagram is left
> to the reader.) Manufacturers compensate for the bad reflector
> by adding more tubes to the unit. These fixtures do work OK and
> the extra tubes aren't really much of an issue unless you have
> more than a few tanks which makes one much more interested in
> conserving electricity to reduce a very high electricity bill.
>
> I grow plants with highly efficient Tek Lights, and less effective
> polished box reflector fixtures. Both do OK. Medium light tanks
> are more forgiving, so those tanks get my old less efficient
> reflector light fixtures.
>
> As for algae and light, it gets tricker the more light you add
> to the aquarium. So for beginners, I recommend starting out with
> medium light level plants with a medium light level fixture.
> A cheap shop light with a simple reflector will do the job for
> this. It's not as effective as one with a parabolic reflector,
> but for medium light, it will be good enough.
>
> Bulbs are _not_ the primary cause algae, it's the water conditions.
> Adding more light just speeds up the growth of everything (desirable
> plants and algae). Poor water conditions under medium light will
> require you to monthly scrape off ugly algae. Poor water conditions
> under very high light will require you to daily scrape off ugly algae.
>
> My philosophy is that for the first year, it's better to take the
> cheap route and get some successes with easy-to-grow medium light
> plants than to take the expensive high risk route where it takes
> some real skill and experience to keep algae at bay.
===============================================
I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from
my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more
algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads
to remove these nutrients.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 28th 07, 05:29 PM

"ginko" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi >
> wrote:
> :
> : "TSJ of course" > wrote in message
> :
> ...
> : By the way, unlike like lamps
> : > specialy made for aquariums, ordinary house lamps would not light up
> : > the whole aquarium the same way.
>
> There is considerable hype on aquaurium bulbs. The T8 (8/8ths of an inch
> wide) fluorescent lamps do pretty good job. At some big bog hardware
> stores,
> you can get a 6500K spectrum bulb at $5.00 per 4 foot tube.

Where I live the 6500K's are $10 and that's at Wal*Mart.

It grows plants
> really well for the money. Pick up one of the new-style shop lights with
> an electronic ballast and a half-decent gull-wing reflector for about
> $40.00. This low budget system will do a pretty good job at raising
> plants. You might do better by using one 6500K tube and one plant
> grow tube (Vitalight, GrowLux, ...) But this is still really cheap.

OK, we're talking two tanks = 4 reflectors and 8 bulbs. Ouch!

> You could get better results with fancy $30.00 aquarium tubes, but they
> won't be twice as good than the cheap $5.00 6500K and $15.00 plant
> tubes.

I've had no luck with plant tubes. The tanks looked dark and the plants
stretched.

> I have a better luck with algae by using a 6500K bulb instead of 4100K
> "cool white" or the not-very-good 3500K "warm white" tubes.

I think I'll pick up a few 6500Ks.........

> : I was assured over and over that algae turns white and falls
> : off when FE is used. Although I found that almost impossible to believe,
> : like a fool I bought the stuff. I bought a lot of it, and it's totally
> : useless. Then the same man from the plant group tried to get me to
> purchase
> : some other expensive crap from his friend who sells fertilizers.
>
> : spend well over $100 on bulbs and still have the algae problem. So you
> can
> : see why I hesitate to start buying expensive bulbs when the FE did
> nothing.

> I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps keep
> my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely noticable
> algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
> plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
> is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.

It is indeed expensive and we saw zero difference in either plant growth or
algae.

> However, this product is not a cure-all. It's optimal for planted tank
> that grows plants pretty well that also has pesky algae. It won't
> transform an unsuccessful planted tank where the plants usually die into
> an Amano-style masterpiece.

Actually my plants do very well under the cool and warm bulbs, unless
there's a serious algae bloom as I have now.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

g_i_n_k_o[_3_]

December 29th 07, 06:27 PM

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi > wrote:
:
: I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from
: my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more
: algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads
: to remove these nutrients.

As a rule to conserve money, I try to avoid all things that have expensive
replacement pads, cartridges and other such items. I don't believe in most
of them as to actually working as advertised. :)

One exception is a good Reverse Osmosis unit. It needs replacement cartridges
about once a year. The RO water is pretty pure and I add back the desired
hardness with baking soda and something called GH Booster that I get really
cheap from aquariumfertilizer.com. The waste water comes after the carbon
block filter, so I use this for hard water tanks (i.e. goldfish and most
live bearers). So the money I would have spent on de-chlor chemicals instead
goes into replacement RO system filter cartridges.

Another exception is a CO2 tank with regulator. This really helps and once
you have the system, it only costs around $20.00 for a refill that lasts more
than 6 months. I wouldn't even try growing plants in a high light setup without
adding CO2.

Then you need to follow a fertilizer dosing schedule. I use something called
the "Estimative Index". Do a google search on "Tom Barr" "Estimative Index"
to get the details. I get raw chemicals for nutrients at aquariumfertilizer.com
and follow the plan with the 50 percent weekly water change. There are other
plans out there, but EI works well for me.

Most of my hight light tank problems went away when I started doing the above
three things. There are other ways to do this, but it works for me and is
relatively inexpensive (long-term) compared to other ways.

For medium light tanks with fish, you don' need to do much of this. I have
good success by using hard or RO softened water and just adding trace elements
once a week or so. The fish poop provides enough macro nutrients for a
medium light tank. It's much simpler, so that's why I suggest people start
out with something easier before doing the high light, high maintenance tank.

Hope this is helpful. There are many ways to do this. I think this is one
of the easiest and least expensive ways.

g_i_n_k_o

December 29th 07, 06:43 PM

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi > wrote:
:
: Where I live the 6500K's are $10 and that's at Wal*Mart.

I try to stay away from WalMart since they don't always treat their
workforce very well.

There is a place called Menards in the upper midwest. They sell
32 watt T8 Phillips Octron tubes for dirt cheap.

: I've had no luck with plant tubes. The tanks looked dark and the plants
: stretched.

I never use just plant tubes. I mix a plant bulb with a bulb that
provides light for a human eye.

: > I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps keep
: > my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely noticable
: > algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
: > plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
: > is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.
:
: It is indeed expensive and we saw zero difference in either plant growth or
: algae.

This stuff completely cleared up a big mess in a very high light tank.
It also helps in some containers and tanks that don't have CO2 added
to them. But, this was used with an Estimative Index fertilizer
schedule. I haven't tried it with other growing methods.

: Actually my plants do very well under the cool and warm bulbs, unless
: there's a serious algae bloom as I have now.

That mix will work. It's been used for decades by people growing indoor
plants. However, many warm white bulbs don't have all that great of a
spectrum. You want red and blues for plants. In some 4100K tubes, the
red spikes were the same that were in the 3500K tube (The 3500K tube
was pretty much a 4100K tube, minus the blues...) So, sometimes two
good 4100K tubes will do better than a 4100K and a not-so-good 3500K.

From a personal aesthics point of view, a 6500K tube looks better to my
eye and is better at balancing up an ugly growLux tube. Of course,
others will prefer the look of another tube!

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 29th 07, 09:20 PM

"g_i_n_k_o" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi >
> wrote:
> :
> : I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right
> from
> : my tap! And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing
> more
> : algae nutrients........ a losing battle unless I go for some expensive
> pads
> : to remove these nutrients.
>
> As a rule to conserve money, I try to avoid all things that have expensive
> replacement pads, cartridges and other such items. I don't believe in
> most
> of them as to actually working as advertised. :)

Actually I agree. There are loads of gimmick items out there that are
useless.

> One exception is a good Reverse Osmosis unit. It needs replacement
> cartridges
> about once a year. The RO water is pretty pure and I add back the desired
> hardness with baking soda and something called GH Booster that I get
> really
> cheap from aquariumfertilizer.com. The waste water comes after the
> carbon
> block filter, so I use this for hard water tanks (i.e. goldfish and most
> live bearers). So the money I would have spent on de-chlor chemicals
> instead
> goes into replacement RO system filter cartridges.

I've been buying my dechlor (have ponds and tanks) by the 10lb bucket as
crystals.

> Another exception is a CO2 tank with regulator. This really helps and
> once
> you have the system, it only costs around $20.00 for a refill that lasts
> more
> than 6 months. I wouldn't even try growing plants in a high light setup
> without
> adding CO2.

Where does the water in nature get the CO2 from?

> Then you need to follow a fertilizer dosing schedule. I use something
> called
> the "Estimative Index". Do a google search on "Tom Barr" "Estimative
> Index"
> to get the details. I get raw chemicals for nutrients at
> aquariumfertilizer.com
> and follow the plan with the 50 percent weekly water change. There are
> other
> plans out there, but EI works well for me.

I'll Google that. I can't afford the Tom Barr stuff or CO2 injectors. These
things are not cheap. The shipping on Barr's fertilizers cost as much as the
products he sells.

> Most of my hight light tank problems went away when I started doing the
> above
> three things. There are other ways to do this, but it works for me and is
> relatively inexpensive (long-term) compared to other ways.

How much are you spending yearly for the fertilizers, the RO unit, the
electricity to run it etc?

> For medium light tanks with fish, you don' need to do much of this. I
> have
> good success by using hard or RO softened water and just adding trace
> elements
> once a week or so. The fish poop provides enough macro nutrients for a
> medium light tank. It's much simpler, so that's why I suggest people
> start
> out with something easier before doing the high light, high maintenance
> tank.

I'm sure not into high-light, high-maintenance tanks. ;-)

> Hope this is helpful. There are many ways to do this. I think this is
> one
> of the easiest and least expensive ways.

Give me a ballpark frigure on what you spent for the RO unit, CO2 injector
etc. And are you in the USA?

--

RM....

Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Reel McKoi[_10_]

December 29th 07, 09:27 PM

"g_i_n_k_o" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi >
> wrote:
> :
> : Where I live the 6500K's are $10 and that's at Wal*Mart.
>
> I try to stay away from WalMart since they don't always treat their
> workforce very well.

They treat them like crap but they have the best prices around. When you're
retired that matters. :-)

> There is a place called Menards in the upper midwest. They sell
> 32 watt T8 Phillips Octron tubes for dirt cheap.

They wont fit in the 4' reflectors on 55g tanks. I Googled the name and
came up with loads of hits. I didn't find tubes. None of these stores are in
my state.

> : I've had no luck with plant tubes. The tanks looked dark and the plants
> : stretched.
>
> I never use just plant tubes. I mix a plant bulb with a bulb that
> provides light for a human eye.
>
> : > I have had really good luck with Seachem Flourish Excel. It helps
> keep
> : > my tank that tends to have a moderate algae problems to barely
> noticable
> : > algae here and there. Please note that it does kill certain kinds of
> : > plants (Vallisneria, Elodia (Anacharis), and Saggiteria. The product
> : > is way too expensive unless you buy it in bulk by the gallon jug.
> :
> : It is indeed expensive and we saw zero difference in either plant growth
> or
> : algae.

> This stuff completely cleared up a big mess in a very high light tank.
> It also helps in some containers and tanks that don't have CO2 added
> to them. But, this was used with an Estimative Index fertilizer
> schedule. I haven't tried it with other growing methods.

He knew I didn't have a high-light tank and couldn't afford the high cost of
Barr's products and shipping. I should have been told the truth right from
the start. I think it was a come-on to sell Barr's products.

> : Actually my plants do very well under the cool and warm bulbs, unless
> : there's a serious algae bloom as I have now.

> That mix will work. It's been used for decades by people growing indoor
> plants. However, many warm white bulbs don't have all that great of a
> spectrum. You want red and blues for plants. In some 4100K tubes, the
> red spikes were the same that were in the 3500K tube (The 3500K tube
> was pretty much a 4100K tube, minus the blues...) So, sometimes two
> good 4100K tubes will do better than a 4100K and a not-so-good 3500K.
>
> From a personal aesthics point of view, a 6500K tube looks better to my
> eye and is better at balancing up an ugly growLux tube. Of course,
> others will prefer the look of another tube!

--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

g_in_k_o

December 31st 07, 08:23 PM

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi > wrote:
:
: Where does the water in nature get the CO2 from?
:

High tech, high light planted aquariums are not at all natural, they only
appear to be so :-)

In nature, a relatively small amount of CO2 dissolves into water. If you
super-saturate the water with CO2, plants that can barely survive at best
under water become showcase specimens. This is because CO2 is a primary
limiting factor in underwater plants.

Even in medium light, supplementing with CO2 doubles the growth of plants.
This tends to help the plants more than the algae, so it gives more
return for your effort than other costly things to try.

You can bubble your own CO2 with yeast, sugar and water in a 2 liter soda
bottle. It's a pain to keep feeding the yeast, but it's pretty cheap and
does a good job for many plants. Google "DIY CO2" should get some info to you.

: How much are you spending yearly for the fertilizers, the RO unit, the
: electricity to run it etc?

Dry fertilizers are cheap, shipping is not. Order several years worth
with a few people and your annual cost will probably drop to less than
$20 a year.

RO and CO2 units cost several hundred dollars up front, but annual
maintenance after that is pretty low.

All my costs get dwarfed by the electricity bill. Lights with efficient
reflectors lets you run the fixture for fewer hours and use less tubes.
Still I have more than a dozen fixtures, only a few have optimal reflectors:

4 tube * 54 watt T5 HO tek Light, 8 hours/day
4 tube * 24 watt T5 HO tek Light, 8 hours/day
2 tube * 32 watt T8, 12 hours/day
2 tube * 32 watt T8 overdriven, 12 hours/day
2 tube * 28 watt T5 strip light * 4 strips, 12 hours/day
2 tube * 14 watt T5 strip light * 4 strips, 12 hours/day
1 tube * 32 watt T8 modified strip light with good reflector
1 120 watt PC hydroponic fixture over large cube tank 8 hours/day
1 96 watt PC "quad tube", 12 hours/day, to be replaced.

Add up the kilowatt hours and plug into your local rate :-)

Randy Webb

January 1st 08, 01:40 AM

Reel McKoi said the following on 12/28/2007 12:12 PM:
>
> "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution
>> I came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in
>> Petco). It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole.
>
> What are you using for a filter? A sponge on the end of the intake?

Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been chasing plant tank
equipment the last two days.

The filter I use is actually a filter that is made for a wet/dry filter
in a sal****er tank. It is about as "coarse" as most sponge filters you
see for power heads.

> Then,
>> you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for
>> the power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the
>> power head has to go through that filter.
>>
>> Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the
>> filter. What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable
>> ties. They sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at
>> Lowes and Home Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.
>
> What kind of sponge are you using for a filter? You can just cut a hole
> in the sponge and stick the intake in it.

I didn't have a way to mount it in the tank unless I attached it to
something. I simply decided to put my rock to multiple uses. And, the
filter I have actually floats my power head if it is not attached to
anything.

>> The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the
>> filter wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the
>> filter, then Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are
>> going to have to be innovative or change power heads.
>
> So every week or so you have to clean the sponge filter and replace the
> ties?

No. The way they are attached it allows access to the bottom. And, most
of the time, simply turning the pump off allows the plant matter to
simply fall off the bottom to be vacuumed out.

>>> Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? Not all
>>> of these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a
>>> sponge over.
>
>> I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to
>> come up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if
>> my wife hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish
>> at the dock that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog
>> food into the tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to
>> clear it up without having to change all the water.
>
> If you can't find these "filters" I probably wont either. Is it a
> sponge? I have no idea what you're talking about.

There is a picture of it on the page I linked to at the end of this post.

>>
>> Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being
>> recharged. I have to do some work on the tank and will try to take
>> some pictures and post them online so you can see how I made it.
>
> Yes, I would love to see what they look like. :-)

<URL: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/fishtank/index.html>

If, for some reason, the pictures don't load, let me know and I can
email them directly to you. The very last picture the power head is not
attached with tie strips because I bought a kit to mount the power head
on the back of the tank with suction cups and found the filters for
power heads. They were simply put on in an X pattern so that they didn't
lock the filter into the rock.

For yours, if it doesn't have an intake tube, and only has an inlet
area, you can use a piece of air conditioner filter for a window unit,
wrap your pump in it, and use rubber bands to hold it on.
--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
comp.lang.javascript FAQ - http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
Javascript Best Practices - http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

January 1st 08, 01:58 AM

On Dec 31, 7:40*pm, Randy Webb > wrote:
> Reel McKoi said the following on 12/28/2007 12:12 PM:
>
>
>
> > "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> Now, you have to figure out how to attach a filter to it. The solution
> >> I came up with was to take a rock that I had (I saw some similar in
> >> Petco). It has holes in the rock. I put a filter inside that hole.
>
> > What are you using for a filter? *A sponge on the end of the intake?
>
> Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been chasing plant tank
> equipment the last two days.
>
> The filter I use is actually a filter that is made for a wet/dry filter
> in a sal****er tank. It is about as "coarse" as most sponge filters you
> see for power heads.
>
> > Then,
> >> you sit the power head on top of the filter, so that the intake for
> >> the power head is inside the filter. Any water that goes into the
> >> power head has to go through that filter.
>
> >> Then, you have to figure out how to secure the power head to the
> >> filter. What I used are the ties that you can buy in Walmart. Cable
> >> ties. They sell them in the Automotive section. They also sell them at
> >> Lowes and Home Depot. They come in packs anywhere from a few to hundreds.
>
> > What kind of sponge are you using for a filter? You can just cut a hole
> > in the sponge and stick the intake in it.
>
> I didn't have a way to mount it in the tank unless I attached it to
> something. I simply decided to put my rock to multiple uses. And, the
> filter I have actually floats my power head if it is not attached to
> anything.
>
> >> The purpose of the rock was to give it a stable base so that the
> >> filter wouldn't get crushed onto the pumps. Put the pump on the
> >> filter, then Cable Tie it all together. It is that simple. You are
> >> going to have to be innovative or change power heads.
>
> > So every week or so you have to clean the sponge filter and replace the
> > ties?
>
> No. The way they are attached it allows access to the bottom. And, most
> of the time, simply turning the pump off allows the plant matter to
> simply fall off the bottom to be vacuumed out.
>
> >>> Are you talking about a sponge filter on it's intake screen? *Not all
> >>> of these powerhead-like water pumps come with screens you can pull a
> >>> sponge over.
>
> >> I can't even find that type of filter here. I hunted one and had to
> >> come up with a solution of my own. None of it would have happened if
> >> my wife hadn't decided that since she could feed dog food to the fish
> >> at the dock that mine would eat it too and dumped a hand full of dog
> >> food into the tank. I was stubborn enough to want to figure out how to
> >> clear it up without having to change all the water.
>
> > If you can't find these "filters" I probably wont either. Is it a
> > sponge? *I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
> There is a picture of it on the page I linked to at the end of this post.
>
>
>
> >> Right now, my digital camera battery is in the charger being
> >> recharged. I have to do some work on the tank and will try to take
> >> some pictures and post them online so you can see how I made it.
>
> > Yes, I would love to see what they look like. *:-)
>
> <URL:http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/fishtank/index.html>
>
> If, for some reason, the pictures don't load, let me know and I can
> email them directly to you. The very last picture the power head is not
> attached with tie strips because I bought a kit to mount the power head
> on the back of the tank with suction cups and found the filters for
> power heads. They were simply put on in an X pattern so that they didn't
> lock the filter into the rock.
>
> For yours, if it doesn't have an intake tube, and only has an inlet
> area, you can use a piece of air conditioner filter for a window unit,
> wrap your pump in it, and use rubber bands to hold it on.
> --
> Randy
> Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
> comp.lang.javascript FAQ -http://jibbering.com/faq/index.html
> Javascript Best Practices -http://www.JavascriptToolbox.com/bestpractices/

I am not knocking youir filter, but to be h onest I sure wuld not
want all that in the tank. IMHO its just as easy to stick a strainer
piece into the powerheads inlet tube and if needed then slip on a
foam / sponge filter sleeve that tyupically comes with a Pondmaster or
Danner Mag 3 or 5 sized piump or use the foam sponge filters that are
made for the Maxi Jet like of pumps.............The "rock" appears to
be a portion of concrete that was evidenlty poured around a 4 x 4 post
or so and it appears to be almost as big around as the bottom of that
bucket............just way too much "material" for a little 4 x 4
area of foam to be exposed and do the work. A typical foam filter
sleeve has approx the same square inches of fitler surface and needs
no "rock"

Randy Webb

January 1st 08, 01:59 AM

g_in_k_o said the following on 12/31/2007 3:23 PM:

<snip>

> You can bubble your own CO2 with yeast, sugar and water in a 2 liter soda
> bottle. It's a pain to keep feeding the yeast, but it's pretty cheap and
> does a good job for many plants. Google "DIY CO2" should get some info to you.

<URL: http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90039&page=23>

About half way down that page is a section where the guy posted pictures
and instructions on how to make a DIY CO2 generator. I found that
article while researching for a reef tank. I made one two nights ago and
it works good. Too good in fact. I double dosed the yeast trying to jump
start my plant tank and ran into a problem worse than recharging the
yeast. Trying to regulate the CO2. Instead of bending a stiff piece of
tubing, I simply used flex tubing and ran it through the bottom of the
strainer (after drilling a hole for it). The problem is that it produces
so much CO2 that the bubbles actually build up and cause my filter to
"dry run" for about a half a second every minute or so. I am going to
have to put a T in it and split it up. Impossible to regulate.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Randy Webb

January 1st 08, 04:02 PM

AquariumFatasies said the following on 12/31/2007 8:58 PM:
> On Dec 31, 7:40 pm, Randy Webb > wrote:

<snip>

>> <URL:http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/fishtank/index.html>
>>
>> If, for some reason, the pictures don't load, let me know and I can
>> email them directly to you. The very last picture the power head is not
>> attached with tie strips because I bought a kit to mount the power head
>> on the back of the tank with suction cups and found the filters for
>> power heads. They were simply put on in an X pattern so that they didn't
>> lock the filter into the rock.
>>
>> For yours, if it doesn't have an intake tube, and only has an inlet
>> area, you can use a piece of air conditioner filter for a window unit,
>> wrap your pump in it, and use rubber bands to hold it on.

<snip>

> I am not knocking youir filter, but to be h onest I sure wuld not
> want all that in the tank.

OK, so you wouldn't want a rock, a power head and a filter in a tank.
Novel idea. JFTR, it is in a 55 gallon tank and it is actually small for
that size tank.

> IMHO its just as easy to stick a strainer piece into the powerheads
> inlet tube and if needed then slip on a foam / sponge filter sleeve
> that tyupically comes with a Pondmaster or Danner Mag 3 or 5 sized
> piump or use the foam sponge filters that are made for the Maxi Jet
> like of pumps.............

Hmmm. Have you read the entire thread? Perhaps you should and you will
come to realize why I used what I did. I used it for more reasons than
just the filter.

An even easier solution would have been to get a strainer for the power
head and then put a sponge filter on it. Not near as much satisfaction
in it though.

> The "rock" appears to be a portion of concrete that was evidenlty poured
> around a 4 x 4 post or so and it appears to be almost as big around as
> the bottom of that bucket............

Nice to see you agree with my description of it. And yes, it is almost
as big around as the five gallon bucket I had it sitting on.

> just way too much "material" for a little 4 x 4 area of foam to be
> exposed and do the work.

Actually, there is twice that much area of filter exposed (It isn't
actually foam, it is a plastic media for wet/dry filters). The exposed
area of the filter is also on the bottom of it. And, testing it with a
flow meter from the local reef store shows that I do not have restricted
flow. The output is the same with and without the filter on the power
head. The advantage I have is more area for biological filtration. I
wouldn't even begin to guess at the surface area of the filter itself.

> A typical foam filter sleeve has approx the same square inches of
> fitler surface and needs no "rock"

I can't find filter sleeves where I live. I don't order from the
Internet for personal reasons. I prefer to see what I am buying before I
buy it so I can make sure it is going to work. The only filter sleeves
you can find here are if you buy another power head to go with it. I
need another power head about as much as Methuselah needs another does
of ugliness.

Second problem is that without the rock, the filter I have has enough
buoyancy that it will actually float my power head in the tank. I could
buy a suction cup setup to mount it to the side of the tank but I chose
not to. I actually like the rock.

In the end, it is nothing more than a way to show people how they can
come up with ideas/solutions of there own. Whether it is by choice or by
need.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

January 1st 08, 06:45 PM

On Jan 1, 10:02*am, Randy Webb > wrote:
> AquariumFatasies said the following on 12/31/2007 8:58 PM:
>
> > On Dec 31, 7:40 pm, Randy Webb > wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> <URL:http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/hikksnotathome/fishtank/index.html>
>
> >> If, for some reason, the pictures don't load, let me know and I can
> >> email them directly to you. The very last picture the power head is not
> >> attached with tie strips because I bought a kit to mount the power head
> >> on the back of the tank with suction cups and found the filters for
> >> power heads. They were simply put on in an X pattern so that they didn't
> >> lock the filter into the rock.
>
> >> For yours, if it doesn't have an intake tube, and only has an inlet
> >> area, you can use a piece of air conditioner filter for a window unit,
> >> wrap your pump in it, and use rubber bands to hold it on.
>
> <snip>
>
> > I am not knocking youir filter, but to *be h onest I sure wuld not
> > want all that in the tank.
>
> OK, so you wouldn't want a rock, a power head and a filter in a tank.
> Novel idea. JFTR, it is in a 55 gallon tank and it is actually small for
> that size tank.
>
> > IMHO its just as easy to stick a strainer piece into the powerheads
> > inlet tube and if needed then slip on a foam / sponge filter sleeve
> > that tyupically comes with a Pondmaster or Danner Mag 3 or 5 sized
> > piump or use the foam sponge filters that are made for the Maxi Jet
> > like of pumps.............
>
> Hmmm. Have you read the entire thread? Perhaps you should and you will
> come to realize why I used what I did. I used it for more reasons than
> just the filter.
>
> An even easier solution would have been to get a strainer for the power
> head and then put a sponge filter on it. Not near as much satisfaction
> in it though.
>
> > The "rock" appears to be a portion of concrete that was evidenlty poured
> > around a 4 x 4 post or so and it appears to be almost as big around as
> > the bottom of that bucket............
>
> Nice to see you agree with my description of it. And yes, it is almost
> as big around as the five gallon bucket I had it sitting on.
>
> > just way too much "material" *for a little 4 x 4 area of foam to be
> > exposed and do the work.
>
> Actually, there is twice that much area of filter exposed (It isn't
> actually foam, it is a plastic media for wet/dry filters). The exposed
> area of the filter is also on the bottom of it. And, testing it with a
> flow meter from the local reef store shows that I do not have restricted
> flow. The output is the same with and without the filter on the power
> head. The advantage I have is more area for biological filtration. I
> wouldn't even begin to guess at the surface area of the filter itself.
>
> > A typical foam filter sleeve has approx the same square inches of
> > fitler surface and needs no "rock"
>
> I can't find filter sleeves where I live. I don't order from the
> Internet for personal reasons. I prefer to see what I am buying before I
> buy it so I can make sure it is going to work. The only filter sleeves
> you can find here are if you buy another power head to go with it. I
> need another power head about as much as Methuselah needs another does
> of ugliness.
>
> Second problem is that without the rock, the filter I have has enough
> buoyancy that it will actually float my power head in the tank. I could
> buy a suction cup setup to mount it to the side of the tank but I chose
> not to. I actually like the rock.
>
> In the end, it is nothing more than a way to show people how they can
> come up with ideas/solutions of there own. Whether it is by choice or by
> need.
>
> --
> Randy
> Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Well I sure am not knocking it so don't think that I am. I use lots of
powerheads in my tanks both salt and fresh, and stay as far away form
suction cups as I can as I am not fond of sand storms of holes blown
in the substrate no matter if its gravel or sand, when a suction cup
lets loose. Been ther done that too many times. I make brackets to
hang from the top and fix my powerheads to them at the disired depth
and angles.......or I use the typical mag float tank cleaners and
attach the powerhead to the magnet that goes inside the tank. I use
Weldon SOlvent to glue the pump and mount tothe magnet clenaer and
have yet to have one ever come loose on me and create a sandstorm
since I started using it this way in many many years.........I
happened tofind a bunch of mag cleaners on super clearance sale one
time and took advantage of them this way......To clean them its easy
to slide the powerhead up from outside the tank and then just pop the
mag cleaner halfs apart just like the typical mag cleaner is
used.......

The blue foam is typical of what they sell for filter media in many
many LFS and its what is used in the Oceanic Bio cubes......what I am
getting at is the amount of area exposed is still only abojut the size
of my tyupical sleeve filters, unless you have that chunk of concrete
(rock) on its side like a wheel in which course then it would have the
bottom portion also to act as a filter. But once the filter material
gets some junk pulled in its not any different in action than the
typical foam filters like in the aqua clear HOB filters,. It starts to
restrict flow and becomes blocked and pump works against more suction
and produces less outflow. its only natural for less intake and
outflow to occur when filter media of any kind gets detrius sucked in
to it.

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

January 1st 08, 07:02 PM

On Dec 29 2007, 12:27*pm, g_i_n_k_o > wrote:
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi > wrote:
> :
> : I'm starting to think it's the nitrates and phosphates that come right from
> : my tap! *And the rain water I'm using is catching dust and providing more
> : algae nutrients........ *a losing battle unless I go for some expensive pads
> : to remove these nutrients.
>
> As a rule to conserve money, I try to avoid all things that have expensive
> replacement pads, cartridges and other such items. *I don't believe in most
> of them as to actually working as advertised. *:)
>
> One exception is a good Reverse Osmosis unit. *It needs replacement cartridges
> about once a year. *The RO water is pretty pure and I add back the desired
> hardness with baking soda and something called GH Booster that I get really
> cheap from aquariumfertilizer.com. * The waste water comes after the carbon
> block filter, so I use this for hard water tanks (i.e. goldfish and most
> live bearers). *So the money I would have spent on de-chlor chemicals instead
> goes into replacement RO system filter cartridges.
>
> Another exception is a CO2 tank with regulator. *This really helps and once
> you have the system, it only costs around $20.00 for a refill that lasts more
> than 6 months. *I wouldn't even try growing plants in a high light setup without
> adding CO2.
>
> Then you need to follow a fertilizer dosing schedule. *I use something called
> the "Estimative Index". *Do a google search on "Tom Barr" "Estimative Index"
> to get the details. *I get raw chemicals for nutrients at aquariumfertilizer.com
> and follow the plan with the 50 percent weekly water change. *There are other
> plans out there, but EI works well for me.
>
> Most of my hight light tank problems went away when I started doing the above
> three things. *There are other ways to do this, but it works for me and is
> relatively inexpensive (long-term) compared to other ways.
>
> For medium light tanks with fish, you don' need to do much of this. *I have
> good success by using hard or RO softened water and just adding trace elements
> once a week or so. *The fish poop provides enough macro nutrients for a
> medium light tank. *It's much simpler, so that's why I suggest people start
> out with something easier before doing the high light, high maintenance tank.
>
> Hope this is helpful. *There are many ways to do this. *I think this is one
> of the easiest and least expensive ways.

In all reality if your using tap water and doing nothing to it but
adding dechlor or just letting it age or using rain water odds are
your dumping phosphates and nitrates into the tank with each water
change. Its the primary reason folks like to use RO or RODI water as
it eliminates a loot of potential for this sort of problem. You can
get a fairly decent and suitable rodi unit for about a hundred bucks
on Ebay or from Filtersdirect.com, and then it will cost perhaps
$25-30 a year or two to replace carbon and spun fiber filters and DI
resin,.......but you will not need to be concerned with declorinating
water any more for a fish tank and your water will be essentially free
of elements that create problems in due time. Yes, in Freshwater you
will have to re-add certain elements, but a contianer of those
compounds will last a long long time and they are not expensive
anyhow. RO or RODI water and proper lights makes for a lot less
work and a lot more viewing and enjoyment of a fish tank. I have
three RODI units in operation as I do use a lot of water each week in
all my tanks. I have one in the barn feed room which is essentially a
fish room, I have one in the laundry room and one in the hall bath
with has been converted to the "centralized" fish keeping room as
well................The laundry room RODI is hooke dup mainly for auto
top off of my sal****er system and is used to make sal****er for water
changes if I run out of natural salt water. The other two are
primarily used for the coffee maker (ro water only) or rodi for the
freshwater tanks etc. All waste water produced (about 3:1 or so)
during use in making rodi water from these units is also used for
watering plants indoors or out so its not wasted.

LIke I stated previously, I add no additional supplements for plants
of any kind, and I can maintain water lillies (miniature Helvola
Chromia's ) in bloom for most of a full year........The naturally
occuring nutrients also provide sufficient food for my "marginal" type
plants that I have growing in my custom water filled hood that also
provides a place to mount the lights for the tank itself, and provides
a huge flow through bio filter on top of the tank where I can also
grow marginal plants l like frog bit, iris, small taro, water celery,
Hosta, Chameleon etc etc with just a simple hanging plant light above
it all specifically just for the marginal plants and it plays no part
in keeping the tanks submerged plants in shape...........Plus that
hood has added an additonal 12 gal of water on a 29 gal tank but in
the process it eliminated a hang on back fitler , and only added a
decent powerhead capable of pumping water up intothe hood itslef (I
use a MaxiJet 1200 powerhead for this purpose) so there is relatively
little filtration equipment etc inside my hydronic hood
tank...........................

Randy Webb

January 2nd 08, 09:20 PM

AquariumFatasies said the following on 1/1/2008 1:45 PM:

<snip>

For someone who proclaims to have a "real Usenet" account and a "real
posting agent", I would think you would know how to snip and interleave
responses properly. If nothing else, it makes it a lot easier to follow
what you are saying.

> Well I sure am not knocking it so don't think that I am.

After reading it 10 times or so, that is still the indication I get from
reading your reply.

> I use lots of powerheads in my tanks both salt and fresh, and stay as
> far away form suction cups as I can as I am not fond of sand storms
> of holes blown in the substrate no matter if its gravel or sand, when
> a suction cup lets loose. Been ther done that too many times.

I use them in my 90 gallon tank but they aren't there as much to hold
the power head up as they are too keep them from leaning over. The power
heads sit on top of uplift tubes from an UGF and the suction cups are
there solely to keep them from wanting to "push" on the tubes.

> I make brackets to hang from the top and fix my powerheads to them
> at the disired depth and angles.......

Do I dare ask what you make those brackets from?

> or I use the typical mag float tank cleaners and attach the
> powerhead to the magnet that goes inside the tank. I use Weldon
> SOlvent to glue the pump and mount to the magnet clenaer and have
> yet to have one ever come loose on me and create a sandstorm
> since I started using it this way in many many years.........

Does Google Groups have a spell checker?

> I happened tofind a bunch of mag cleaners on super clearance sale one
> time and took advantage of them this way......To clean them its easy
> to slide the powerhead up from outside the tank and then just pop the
> mag cleaner halfs apart just like the typical mag cleaner is
> used.......

I don't care for the magnets personally. Nothing more than a gimmick so
that people don't have to maintain a tank properly. I guess that is one
decent use for them as they aren't good for anything else to me. As long
as you have power heads that are weak enough that they can't turn the
magnets on the glass. And, as long as you are satisfied with the flow
you get from having all your pumps on the edges and none in the middle.

> The blue foam is typical of what they sell for filter media in many
> many LFS and its what is used in the Oceanic Bio cubes......

That is precisely what it is (I even said that earlier in this thread).

> what I am getting at is the amount of area exposed is still only
> abojut the size of my tyupical sleeve filters, unless you have that
> chunk of concrete (rock) on its side like a wheel in which course
> then it would have the bottom portion also to act as a filter.

I would look up where I said it but I don't feel like it. The rock is
not turned on its side, it is raised up off the bottom of the tank so
that water actually flows through the bottom as much as it does the top.
As for cleaning it, I simply turn the power head off and vacuum under
it. Trivial stuff.

> But once the filter material gets some junk pulled in its not any
> different in action than the typical foam filters like in the aqua
> clear HOB filters,.

That is true. But, I can clean mine without ever getting wet. I don't
even have to reach in the water. That can't be said for the foam filters.

Either way, people can do it however they want. There is not a solid
rule on how you do it. Be innovative. Be creative. Otherwise, your tank
just looks like something anybody could go in Walmart/Petsmart/Petco and
put together.

> It starts to restrict flow and becomes blocked and pump works against
> more suction and produces less outflow. its only natural for less intake and
> outflow to occur when filter media of any kind gets detrius sucked in
> to it.

I fool with my tank nearly every day right now because I still don't
have it set up the way I want. The filter gets cleaned off every day. It
is part of the maintenance process. If a filter is left so long that it
starts to get clogged then the tank has more problems than a clogged filter.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

AquariumFatasies[_2_]

January 2nd 08, 10:07 PM

On Jan 2, 3:20*pm, Randy Webb > wrote:
> AquariumFatasies said the following on 1/1/2008 1:45 PM:
>
> <snip>
>
> For someone who proclaims to have a "real Usenet" account and a "real
> posting agent", I would think you would know how to snip and interleave
> responses properly. If nothing else, it makes it a lot easier to follow
> what you are saying.

Well then Rand **** you and the horse you rode in on.
>
> > Well I sure am not knocking it so don't think that I am.
>
> After reading it 10 times or so, that is still the indication I get from
> reading your reply.

Well you have to admit irt doe slook like a freaking kindergarden kid
had a home project to do......or maybe one of the "disabled" types at
Goodwill! Your welcome to read what you want into it now, since yyou
still though I was knocking it, so now you can pretty dam well bet I
am knocking that pityfull what-the-**** it ever is.
>
> > I use lots of powerheads in my tanks both salt and fresh, and stay as
> > far away form suction cups as I can as I am not fond of sand storms
> > of holes blown in the substrate no matter if its gravel or sand, when
> > a suction cup lets loose. Been ther done that too many times.
>
> I use them in my 90 gallon tank but they aren't there as much to hold
> the power head up as they are too keep them from leaning over. The power
> heads sit on top of uplift tubes from an UGF and the suction cups are
> there solely to keep them from wanting to "push" on the tubes.

Simple things for simple folks.......your filter whatever attests to
that!
>
> > I make brackets to hang from the top and fix my powerheads to them
> > at the disired depth and angles.......
>
> Do I dare ask what you make those brackets from?
Dam right, its classified. I may have even sent you some material but
you just had to start to be a horses er ah make that TYNKs ass and
assume ****! Do without, you would onoly make it look like a disabled
persons project anyhow.and it would be a waste of good
materials..............
>
> > or I use the typical mag float tank cleaners and attach the
> > powerhead to the magnet that goes inside the tank. I use Weldon
> > SOlvent to glue the pump and mount to the magnet clenaer and have
> > yet to have one ever come loose on me and create a sandstorm
> > since I started using it this way in many many years.........
>
> Does Google Groups have a spell checker?

**** no and eveni f it did, I do not see a need to use it for the
likes of assholes like you or the majority that infest these groups...
>
> > I happened tofind a bunch of mag cleaners on super clearance sale one
> > time and took advantage of them this way......To clean them its easy
> > to slide the powerhead up from outside the tank and then just pop the
> > mag cleaner halfs apart just like the typical mag cleaner is
> > used.......
>
> I don't care for the magnets personally. Nothing more than a gimmick so
> that people don't have to maintain a tank properly. I guess that is one
> decent use for them as they aren't good for anything else to me. As long
> as you have power heads that are weak enough that they can't turn the
> magnets on the glass. And, as long as you are satisfied with the flow
> you get from having all your pumps on the edges and none in the middle.

Your certainly a ****ed up paranoid idiot Randy.gimmicks my ass,. Your
just cheap and stupid and your filter and power head **** proves that
point 110%
>
> > The blue foam is typical of what they sell for filter media in many
> > many LFS and its what is used in the Oceanic Bio cubes......
>
> That is precisely what it is (I even said that earlier in this thread).

So whjy are you trying to say in the prvious posty its some high
fancey shamancey material,. why not just simply say its filter media
foam.duh, your a real dumbass Randy
>
> > what I am getting at is the amount of area exposed is still only
> > abojut the size of my tyupical sleeve filters, unless *you have that
> > chunk of concrete (rock) on its side like a wheel in which course
> > then it would have the bottom portion also to act as a filter. *
>
> I would look up where I said it but I don't feel like it. The rock is
> not turned on its side, it is raised up off the bottom of the tank so
> that water actually flows through the bottom as much as it does the top.
> As for cleaning it, I simply turn the power head off and vacuum under
> it. Trivial stuff.

Your whole life is trivial Randy, and your lazy to boot. Too lazy to
go look up what you may or may not have posted ..Laziness shows in
yur powerhead / filter thingy whjat ever you want to call
it........but the term Crap or mess fits it perfectly.
>
> > But once the filter material gets some junk pulled in its not any
> > different in action than the typical foam filters like in the aqua
> > clear HOB filters,.
>
> That is true. But, I can clean mine without ever getting wet. I don't
> even have to reach in the water. That can't be said for the foam filters.

Says who, the maker of such a beautiful assinine piece of crap. It
belongs on the bottomof a lake or a landfill Randy............it
sucks...........but then it probably adds a touch of class to your
trailer.
>
> Either way, people can do it however they want. There is not a solid
> rule on how you do it. Be innovative. Be creative. Otherwise, your tank
> just looks like something anybody could go in Walmart/Petsmart/Petco and
> put together.

Yea, inovative ..hahhahahahahaha and crude too!
>
> > It starts to restrict flow and becomes blocked and pump works against
> > more suction and produces less outflow. its only natural for less intake and
> > outflow to occur when *filter media of any kind gets detrius sucked in
> > to it.
>
> I fool with my tank nearly every day right now because I still don't
> have it set up the way I want. The filter gets cleaned off every day. It
> is part of the maintenance process. If a filter is left so long that it
> starts to get clogged then the tank has more problems than a clogged filter.

Randy Webb

January 3rd 08, 03:10 PM

AquariumFatasies said the following on 1/2/2008 5:07 PM:
> On Jan 2, 3:20 pm, Randy Webb > wrote:
>> AquariumFatasies said the following on 1/1/2008 1:45 PM:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> For someone who proclaims to have a "real Usenet" account and a "real
>> posting agent", I would think you would know how to snip and interleave
>> responses properly. If nothing else, it makes it a lot easier to follow
>> what you are saying.
>
> Well then Rand **** you and the horse you rode in on.

A little thin skinned are we? I tried to give you the benefit of the
doubt and you have shown your true colors. Thankfully, it didn't take
long for you to do it either.

As for your lame attempt at flaming me, I have been flamed far worse by
far better than you so try again son, you failed.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Reel McKoi[_10_]

January 10th 08, 02:49 AM

"Larry Blanchard" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 07:40:31 -0800, AquariumFatasies wrote:
>
>> I'll bet you a coffee that proper bulbs (no
>> more than 2x40Watters of the correct kelvin temps and "PROPER"
>> reflectors will be more than enough light for "ANY" Freshwater plants
>> you can possibly grow in a 55 gal tank.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. They may be sufficient at first, but light
> output seems to drop off fairly quickly. I've had good luck with the
> proverbial 2 watts per gallon in tanks of normal depth.
>
> Even then I'd use the Tropica website and stay away from any plants they
> describe as needing high light.
>
> As far as a homemade reflector, I used aluminum flashing in a couple of
> homemade hoods. Certainly no work of art, but seems to work. Just make
> sure the flashing you buy is polished on at least one side.
============================================
For now I'm leaving the lights as is on my tanks. I've cut back feeding to
twice a day and cut back the lighting to 10 hours a day. I stopped adding
Flourish Excel and see a small improvement. :-)
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(Ã¶>

Reel McKoi[_10_]

January 10th 08, 03:30 AM

"g_in_k_o" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants Reel McKoi >
> wrote:
> :
> : Where does the water in nature get the CO2 from?
> :
> High tech, high light planted aquariums are not at all natural, they only
> appear to be so :-)
>
> In nature, a relatively small amount of CO2 dissolves into water. If you
> super-saturate the water with CO2, plants that can barely survive at best
> under water become showcase specimens. This is because CO2 is a primary
> limiting factor in underwater plants.

It should then also enter aquarium water and be added by the fish as they
breathe.

> Even in medium light, supplementing with CO2 doubles the growth of plants.
> This tends to help the plants more than the algae, so it gives more
> return for your effort than other costly things to try.
>
> You can bubble your own CO2 with yeast, sugar and water in a 2 liter soda
> bottle. It's a pain to keep feeding the yeast, but it's pretty cheap and
> does a good job for many plants. Google "DIY CO2" should get some info to
> you.
>
> : How much are you spending yearly for the fertilizers, the RO unit, the
> : electricity to run it etc?

> Dry fertilizers are cheap, shipping is not. Order several years worth
> with a few people and your annual cost will probably drop to less than
> $20 a year.

I have no one to share an order with. No one I know grows aquarium plants
although they keep fish.

> RO and CO2 units cost several hundred dollars up front, but annual
> maintenance after that is pretty low.
>
> All my costs get dwarfed by the electricity bill. Lights with efficient
> reflectors lets you run the fixture for fewer hours and use less tubes.
> Still I have more than a dozen fixtures, only a few have optimal
> reflectors:
>
> 4 tube * 54 watt T5 HO tek Light, 8 hours/day
> 4 tube * 24 watt T5 HO tek Light, 8 hours/day
> 2 tube * 32 watt T8, 12 hours/day
> 2 tube * 32 watt T8 overdriven, 12 hours/day
> 2 tube * 28 watt T5 strip light * 4 strips, 12 hours/day
> 2 tube * 14 watt T5 strip light * 4 strips, 12 hours/day
> 1 tube * 32 watt T8 modified strip light with good reflector
> 1 120 watt PC hydroponic fixture over large cube tank 8 hours/day
> 1 96 watt PC "quad tube", 12 hours/day, to be replaced.
>
> Add up the kilowatt hours and plug into your local rate :-)

Electricity where I live isn't very expensive.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Reel McKoi[_10_]

January 10th 08, 03:41 AM

"Randy Webb" > wrote in message
...
> g_in_k_o said the following on 12/31/2007 3:23 PM:
>
> <snip>
>
>> You can bubble your own CO2 with yeast, sugar and water in a 2 liter soda
>> bottle. It's a pain to keep feeding the yeast, but it's pretty cheap and
>> does a good job for many plants. Google "DIY CO2" should get some info
>> to you.
>
> <URL: http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90039&page=23>
>
> About half way down that page is a section where the guy posted pictures
> and instructions on how to make a DIY CO2 generator. I found that article
> while researching for a reef tank. I made one two nights ago and it works
> good. Too good in fact. I double dosed the yeast trying to jump start my
> plant tank and ran into a problem worse than recharging the yeast. Trying
> to regulate the CO2. Instead of bending a stiff piece of tubing, I simply
> used flex tubing and ran it through the bottom of the strainer (after
> drilling a hole for it). The problem is that it produces so much CO2 that
> the bubbles actually build up and cause my filter to "dry run" for about a
> half a second every minute or so. I am going to have to put a T in it and
> split it up. Impossible to regulate.
==============================
Thanks Randy but I really don't have the time to mess with something like
that. I can kill all my fish if I make a mistake.
--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Randy Webb

January 10th 08, 05:18 AM

Reel McKoi said the following on 1/9/2008 10:41 PM:
>
> "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
>> g_in_k_o said the following on 12/31/2007 3:23 PM:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> You can bubble your own CO2 with yeast, sugar and water in a 2 liter
>>> soda
>>> bottle. It's a pain to keep feeding the yeast, but it's pretty cheap
>>> and
>>> does a good job for many plants. Google "DIY CO2" should get some
>>> info to you.
>>
>> <URL: http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90039&page=23>
>>
>> About half way down that page is a section where the guy posted
>> pictures and instructions on how to make a DIY CO2 generator. I found
>> that article while researching for a reef tank. I made one two nights
>> ago and it works good. Too good in fact. I double dosed the yeast
>> trying to jump start my plant tank and ran into a problem worse than
>> recharging the yeast. Trying to regulate the CO2. Instead of bending a
>> stiff piece of tubing, I simply used flex tubing and ran it through
>> the bottom of the strainer (after drilling a hole for it). The problem
>> is that it produces so much CO2 that the bubbles actually build up and
>> cause my filter to "dry run" for about a half a second every minute or
>> so. I am going to have to put a T in it and split it up. Impossible to
>> regulate.
> ==============================
> Thanks Randy but I really don't have the time to mess with something
> like that. I can kill all my fish if I make a mistake.

That is very true. I tried it because I was setting up a plant tank. The
hope was to make it a planted and fish tank but I wanted the plants
established first, then introduce the fish. Since there were no fish, I
didn't have to worry about over-dosing the CO2.

One thing I have thought about doing was putting the T in it and let one
side just dump out (not into the tank) so that I could try to regulate
what is going into the tank.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Tynk[_4_]

January 10th 08, 02:50 PM

On Jan 2, 4:07*pm, AquariumFatasies > wrote:
> On Jan 2, 3:20*pm, Randy Webb > wrote:
>
> > AquariumFatasies said the following on 1/1/2008 1:45 PM:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > For someone who proclaims to have a "real Usenet" account and a "real
> > posting agent", I would think you would know how to snip and interleave
> > responses properly. If nothing else, it makes it a lot easier to follow
> > what you are saying.
>
> Well then Rand **** you and the horse you rode in on.
>
>
>
> > > Well I sure am not knocking it so don't think that I am.
>
> > After reading it 10 times or so, that is still the indication I get from
> > reading your reply.
>
> Well you have to admit irt doe slook like a freaking kindergarden kid
> had a home project to do......or maybe one of the "disabled" types at
> Goodwill! *Your welcome to read what *you want into it now, since yyou
> still though I was knocking it, so now you can pretty dam well bet I
> am knocking that pityfull what-the-**** it ever is.
>
>
>
> > > I use lots of powerheads in my tanks both salt and fresh, and stay as
> > > far away form suction cups as I can as I am not fond of sand storms
> > > of holes blown in the substrate no matter if its gravel or sand, when
> > > a suction cup lets loose. Been ther done that too many times.
>
> > I use them in my 90 gallon tank but they aren't there as much to hold
> > the power head up as they are too keep them from leaning over. The power
> > heads sit on top of uplift tubes from an UGF and the suction cups are
> > there solely to keep them from wanting to "push" on the tubes.
>
> Simple things for simple folks.......your filter whatever attests to
> that!
>
> > > I make brackets to hang from the top and fix my powerheads to them
> > > at the disired depth and angles.......
>
> > Do I dare ask what you make those brackets from?
>
> Dam right, its classified. I may have even sent you some material but
> you just had to start to be a horses *er ah make that TYNKs ass and
> assume ****! Do without, you would onoly make it look like a disabled
> persons project anyhow.and it would be a waste of good
> materials..............
>
>
>
> > > or I use the typical mag float tank cleaners and attach the
> > > powerhead to the magnet that goes inside the tank. I use Weldon
> > > SOlvent to glue the pump and mount to the magnet clenaer and have
> > > yet to have one ever come loose on me and create a sandstorm
> > > since I started using it this way in many many years.........
>
> > Does Google Groups have a spell checker?
>
> **** no and eveni f it did, I do not see a need to use it for the
> likes of assholes like you or the majority that infest these groups...
>
>
>
> > > I happened tofind a bunch of mag cleaners on super clearance sale one
> > > time and took advantage of them this way......To clean them its easy
> > > to slide the powerhead up from outside the tank and then just pop the
> > > mag cleaner halfs apart just like the typical mag cleaner is
> > > used.......
>
> > I don't care for the magnets personally. Nothing more than a gimmick so
> > that people don't have to maintain a tank properly. I guess that is one
> > decent use for them as they aren't good for anything else to me. As long
> > as you have power heads that are weak enough that they can't turn the
> > magnets on the glass. And, as long as you are satisfied with the flow
> > you get from having all your pumps on the edges and none in the middle.
>
> Your certainly a ****ed up paranoid idiot Randy.gimmicks my ass,. Your
> just cheap *and stupid and your filter and power head **** proves that
> point 110%
>
>
>
> > > The blue foam is typical of what they sell for filter media in many
> > > many LFS and its what is used in the Oceanic Bio cubes......
>
> > That is precisely what it is (I even said that earlier in this thread).
>
> So whjy are you trying to say in the prvious posty its some high
> fancey shamancey material,. why not just simply say its filter media
> foam.duh, your a real dumbass Randy
>
>
>
> > > what I am getting at is the amount of area exposed is still only
> > > abojut the size of my tyupical sleeve filters, unless *you have that
> > > chunk of concrete (rock) on its side like a wheel in which course
> > > then it would have the bottom portion also to act as a filter. *
>
> > I would look up where I said it but I don't feel like it. The rock is
> > not turned on its side, it is raised up off the bottom of the tank so
> > that water actually flows through the bottom as much as it does the top.
> > As for cleaning it, I simply turn the power head off and vacuum under
> > it. Trivial stuff.
>
> Your whole life is trivial Randy, and your lazy to boot. Too lazy to
> go look up what you *may or may not have posted ..Laziness shows in
> yur powerhead / filter thingy whjat ever you want to call
> it........but the term Crap or mess fits it perfectly.
>
>
>
> > > But once the filter material gets some junk pulled in its not any
> > > different in action than the typical foam filters like in the aqua
> > > clear HOB filters,.
>
> > That is true. But, I can clean mine without ever getting wet. I don't
> > even have to reach in the water. That can't be said for the foam filters..
>
> Says who, the maker of such a beautiful assinine piece of crap. It
> belongs on the bottomof a lake or a landfill Randy............it
> sucks...........but then *it probably adds a touch of class to your
> trailer.
>
>
>
> > Either way, people can do it however they want. There is not a solid
> > rule on how you do it. Be innovative. Be creative. Otherwise, your tank
> > just looks like something anybody could go in Walmart/Petsmart/Petco and
> > put together.
>
> Yea, inovative ..hahhahahahahaha and crude too!
>
>
>
> > > It starts to restrict flow and becomes blocked and pump works against
> > > more suction and produces less outflow. its only natural for less intake and
> > > outflow to occur when *filter media of any kind gets detrius sucked in
> > > to it.
>
> > I fool with my tank nearly every day right now because I still don't
> > have it set up the way I want. The filter gets cleaned off every day. It
> > is part of the maintenance process. If a filter is left so long that it
> > starts to get clogged then the tank has more problems than a clogged filter.
>
> So your bored then, I do not have to fool with my tanks but every
> other week.thats because my tanks have class and decent innovative
> ideas on them and not some crappy looking **** like you posted
> about......
>
>
>
> > --
> > Randy
> > Chance Favors The Prepared Mind
>
> So tell me Randy are you feeling Randy? I bet your a ****** too ...huh
> Randy? *Probably was wanking while making that filter thing and thats
> why it looks like it does. Probably wanking right now so you do not
> "want" to break the rythmn of the stroke and go look up some
> **** .........huh randy Randy!
>
> Bye Randy ya old ****** you!

Reel McKoi[_10_]

January 10th 08, 06:21 PM

"Randy Webb" > wrote in message
...
> Reel McKoi said the following on 1/9/2008 10:41 PM:
>> Thanks Randy but I really don't have the time to mess with something like
>> that. I can kill all my fish if I make a mistake.
---------
> That is very true. I tried it because I was setting up a plant tank. The
> hope was to make it a planted and fish tank but I wanted the plants
> established first, then introduce the fish. Since there were no fish, I
> didn't have to worry about over-dosing the CO2.
>
> One thing I have thought about doing was putting the T in it and let one
> side just dump out (not into the tank) so that I could try to regulate
> what is going into the tank.
================================
Keep us updated on your successes and failures. As much as I love aquarium
plants I like my fish more and would never do anything to jeopardize their
health.
--
RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ }<((((*> ~~~ }<{{{{(ö>

Randy Webb

January 11th 08, 07:36 AM

Reel McKoi said the following on 1/10/2008 1:21 PM:
>
> "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Reel McKoi said the following on 1/9/2008 10:41 PM:
>>> Thanks Randy but I really don't have the time to mess with something
>>> like that. I can kill all my fish if I make a mistake.
> ---------
>> That is very true. I tried it because I was setting up a plant tank.
>> The hope was to make it a planted and fish tank but I wanted the
>> plants established first, then introduce the fish. Since there were no
>> fish, I didn't have to worry about over-dosing the CO2.
>>
>> One thing I have thought about doing was putting the T in it and let
>> one side just dump out (not into the tank) so that I could try to
>> regulate what is going into the tank.
> ================================
> Keep us updated on your successes and failures. As much as I love
> aquarium plants I like my fish more and would never do anything to
> jeopardize their health.

Right now, I am trying to find a good, cheap substrate to use in the
tank. I want something that the plants can actually root and grow in
that won't cost me a fortune to use. As it is now, about half of them
are simply floating in the tank because I can't make up my mind what
kind of substrate to use. Don't want to just keep trying things, them
failing, and having to start all over again.

I read an article somewhere on the web that said you could use clay
based kitty litter but an experiment in a 5 gallon bucket to see what it
would do when totally wet looks like a bucket of mud and scared the crap
out of me.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Tynk[_4_]

January 11th 08, 01:32 PM

On Jan 11, 1:36*am, Randy Webb > wrote:
> Reel McKoi said the following on 1/10/2008 1:21 PM:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Randy Webb" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Reel McKoi said the following on 1/9/2008 10:41 PM:
> >>> Thanks Randy but I really don't have the time to mess with something
> >>> like that. I can kill all my fish if I make a mistake.
> > ---------
> >> That is very true. I tried it because I was setting up a plant tank.
> >> The hope was to make it a planted and fish tank but I wanted the
> >> plants established first, then introduce the fish. Since there were no
> >> fish, I didn't have to worry about over-dosing the CO2.
>
> >> One thing I have thought about doing was putting the T in it and let
> >> one side just dump out (not into the tank) so that I could try to
> >> regulate what is going into the tank.
> > ================================
> > Keep us updated on your successes and failures. *As much as I love
> > aquarium plants I like my fish more and would never do anything to
> > jeopardize their health.
>
> Right now, I am trying to find a good, cheap substrate to use in the
> tank. I want something that the plants can actually root and grow in
> that won't cost me a fortune to use. As it is now, about half of them
> are simply floating in the tank because I can't make up my mind what
> kind of substrate to use. Don't want to just keep trying things, them
> failing, and having to start all over again.
>
> I read an article somewhere on the web that said you could use clay
> based kitty litter but an experiment in a 5 gallon bucket to see what it
> would do when totally wet looks like a bucket of mud and scared the crap
> out of me.
>
> --
> Randy
> Chance Favors The Prepared Mind- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Just a sign of yiur ignorance Randy...............All kitty litter is
not created equal and if you knew half a clue about it it would have
been montmorilite clay or sodium bentonite clay that your looking for,
which is a colloidial clay................

Larry Blanchard

January 11th 08, 04:58 PM

On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:36:37 -0500, Randy Webb wrote:

> Right now, I am trying to find a good, cheap substrate to use in the
> tank. I want something that the plants can actually root and grow in
> that won't cost me a fortune to use. As it is now, about half of them
> are simply floating in the tank because I can't make up my mind what
> kind of substrate to use. Don't want to just keep trying things, them
> failing, and having to start all over again.

A suggestion I've made before in this group is "tube sand" or "traction
sand". Comes in 60 pound bags for around $5.00. It's mostly small gravel
and/or coarse sand. I sift out the really small stuff (yes it's a lot of
work), wash the rest, and voila! substrate.

My plants grow great in it, but I do stick a fertilizer tablet under each
plant when planting. By the time that's gone, the fish will have created
enough fertilizer to carry on, although I do use Flourish once a week for
trace elements.

I've been using Flourish Excel in some tanks and not in others. After a
year or more, I can't tell any difference.

Tynk[_4_]

January 11th 08, 05:45 PM

On Jan 11, 10:58*am, Larry Blanchard > wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 02:36:37 -0500, Randy Webb wrote:
> > Right now, I am trying to find a good, cheap substrate to use in the
> > tank. I want something that the plants can actually root and grow in
> > that won't cost me a fortune to use. As it is now, about half of them
> > are simply floating in the tank because I can't make up my mind what
> > kind of substrate to use. Don't want to just keep trying things, them
> > failing, and having to start all over again.
>
> A suggestion I've made before in this group is "tube sand" or "traction
> sand". *Comes in 60 pound bags for around $5.00. *It's mostly small gravel
> and/or coarse sand. *I sift out the really small stuff (yes it's a lot of
> work), wash the rest, and voila! substrate. *
>
> My plants grow great in it, but I do stick a fertilizer tablet under each
> plant when planting. *By the time that's gone, the fish will have created
> enough fertilizer to carry on, although I do use Flourish once a week for
> trace elements.
>
> I've been using Flourish Excel in some tanks and not in others. *After a
> year or more, I can't tell any difference.

Then its safe to assume if you plant a tank and have fish in it, no
extra fertilizer is necesssary nor pay through thru nose for stuff
like Flourish Excel..............right? (Assuming the majority of
typical plants kept unless they are high intake type plants...I have
never ever spent any money on aquarium plant fertilizer and used to
use plant spikes etc.........then I quit using them as well and my
planats are all just as great now as they were before......and my
tanks are planted fairly heavy too. .A very good exporter of
phosphates and nitrates is frog bit. Frog bit is similar to water
hyacinth, but it doe snot get as large or as high, and usually only
gets perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" at most high off the water surface,. It
spreads widthwise and through fission creates smaller plants. Leaves
are about as large as a quarter in most cases and lcustered and
overlapped and shiney dark green. They do however get some very nice
suspended hair roots that are super for most all fish or in a fry tank
as those roots do collect lots of micro fauna and nutrients fry use to
grow as well as provide protection and Frog Bit is perhaps one of
the best exporters of nitrates, so algae blooms are also reduced. If
the top of the tank is open and there is room for upward growth,
Sensitve Vine is another nice plant that floats and has lots of hair
roots suspended under it. Both Frog bit and sensitive vine are easy to
propagate and control. I also use duckweed and Azola which is also a
floating plant and good at exporting nitrates etc and providing shaded
areas where it may be clustered up or contained. I find lots of
tropical fish that are herbivores's to eat it as well as omnivores.