Newbie Seeking Advice on Water

[Neil Webster]

Hello everyone,

I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
question.

My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is very
bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
light).

Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[AquariumFatasies[_2_]]

On Dec 29, 2:22*am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. *This is a
> long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> aquariums (or is it aquaria?). *It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> tank. *I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> tropical fish. *I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> from my local library. *However, I have not found an answer to this
> question.
>
> My house is supplied with water from a very old well. *I have the water
> going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is very
> bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> these do not get rid of it all. *They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> cooking. *The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> light).
>
> Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? *I am concerned
> about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
you may have to add...........

So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck

[Neil Webster]

On Dec 29, 2:22 am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
> long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> question.
>
> My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
very
> bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> light).
>
> Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you.

Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
you may have to add...........

So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck


Thanks for the advice. I am still in the planning stages, still need to buy
several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. I plan on
setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
(or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). I also am still
looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that may
change). I will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some of the
necessary items like stand and water test kits. I just don't want to start
with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO water
and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
(well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). Thanks.

[AquariumFatasies[_2_]]

On Dec 30, 9:19Â*am, Tynk > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 12:37�am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 2:22 am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone,
>
> > > I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
> > > long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> > > aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> > > tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> > > tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> > > from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> > > question.
>
> > > My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> > > going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
> > very
> > > bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> > > these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> > > still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> > > cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> > > filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> > > filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> > > light).
>
> > > Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> > > about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> > > bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> > > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> > > Thank you.
>
> > Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
> > etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
> > water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
> > RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
> > is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
> > supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
> > 99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
> > necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
> > get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
> > PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
> > you may have to add...........
>
> > So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
> > and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
> > water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
> > intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
> > overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
> > days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
> > the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
> > working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
> > away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
> > you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
> > withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
> > fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
> > get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
> > unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
> > the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
> > toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
> > away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck
>
> > Thanks for the advice. �I am still in the planning stages, still need to buy
> > several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. �I plan on
> > setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
> > (or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). �I also am still
> > looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that may
> > change). �I will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some of the
> > necessary items like stand and water test kits. �I just don't want to start
> > with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO water
> > and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
> > (well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). �Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Hi there.
> Being that you are working with (in the fish world), quite a small
> tank.
> Being a newbie you may think differently. Â*= )
> The bigger the tank, the more room for error.
> A small tank is less forgiving, so it would be wise to keep this tank
> lightly stocked until you get some experience under your belt.
> I applaud you for researching first. That's so great! Believe it or
> not, way too many people just get a tank, fill it with water and bags
> of fish the same day. Then they wonder why their fish all died. = (
> Your idea of Tetras is fine, however, the type of tetra matters in
> your situation.
> Neons are not a good tetra for newer tanks, and absolutely not for
> cycling with.
> Other than that, they're pretty hardy. I've had many batches do quite
> well in very hard, city well water. Our town's water supply is from
> several deep wells around the town, not private wells.
> Don't believe the old myth about 1 inch of fish oer gallon of water,
> as it's quite outdated, and frankly doesn't work for most species.
> Think of adding a 10" oscar to a 10g tank, or a couple of 5" Red Devil
> males. Not going to work.
> However it works perfectly with thin bodied, inch long fish that have
> no territory requirements (like guppies).
> When it comes to fishless cycling, what type are you thinking about
> doing...or have you not gotten that far yet?
> There's a couple of bacteria starter products out there now with the
> correct type of bacteria in it. Depending on what side of the world
> you're on....Here in the states..BioSpira made by Marineland.
> UK...Bactinettes. I'm hoping these have made it across the pond or
> soon will be. Then maybe the prices will go down.
> Unfortunately, the other products out there that claim to be starters
> have the wrong nitrifying bacteria in them and don't really do much of
> anything to "start" the cycling.
> They have a later stage bacteria (nitrobacter bacteria), where as
> BioSpira has the first stage...the start up bacteria (nitrospira).
> Ones that don't do much are:
> BioZyme, StartZyme, StressZyme, Cycle, BacterBoost....etc...
> These may be helpfull after the process has already started, but isn't
> the purpose to help start it up. How these companies can get away with
> claiming what they do makes me very mad. They're misleading the
> public. However, they can because their product contains *A* Â*bacteria
> in the cycling process. (I believe there are 3 types....but it's been
> years since I read the study).
> The easiest way to cycle your tank would be to use BioSpira (or
> Bactinettes if you can find them). You set the tank up, add BioSpira,
> and fully stock your tank the next day. You then treat the tank as a
> fully seasoned tank and after the first week, start up your normal
> weekly water changes.
> This product is great, and truly does what it claims.
> However, it must be refrigerated properly. If left to warm or gets
> frozen, the live bacteria dies and the product becomes useless (it
> looks like clumpy brown stuff in water when dead). It should appear
> like cloudy water with little teeny bits in it.
> It's also hard to find because not too many stores have a refrigerator
> (most have freezers only). It's also not cheap.
> A 1 oz pack (like what you'd need) cost between $10-15 (around IL,
> USA). IMO, completely worth it. I've used it several times, with 100%
> great results.
> You can also go a slower, but easy route Â*too, cycling with household
> ammonia (plain, no perfumes or additives of any kind).
> Did you find info in your researching about the different types of
> cycling?
> I can email you links if you need any info.
> Welcome to the hobby!
> = )- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Get real TYNK, your out in left field for the most part telling this
person they need to sdo this and do that and have to have all these
supplements..........He is on the right track and in no need fo hainv
to play chemistry student and then get stuck having to dealwith this
and that. If folks learned to do it the right way from scratch when
problems occur they are not scratching their ass and wondering what
they did is wrong as there is so many less variable to
dealwith....................There has been a heap of folks left down
with dead fish and bio spira as there is no way it is controlled
instorage andshipipng and its not a miricle additive by any
means..............YOu seemto be about theonlyo ne around that
suggests fully stocking a tank all in the same day.its conyuter to
what really is the acceptable process in todays day and age. Perhaps
its time for you to read [posts instead of answering posts as your
really quite clueless..........A tank will cycle just fine with adding
just a touch of flaked or pelleted fish food.............then monitor
the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels.they will rise, and then the
ammonia and nitrite will drop to zero, and your bio filter is then
established..............Stay away from the miricle crap in containers
as it will bite you one day and its good to know how to do it the
"real and right" way if you ruin into a problem its much easier to
figure out what screwed up...............But Tynk would not know that.

[AquariumFatasies[_2_]]

On Dec 30, 9:19Â*am, Tynk > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 12:37�am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 2:22 am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
> > > Hello everyone,
>
> > > I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
> > > long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> > > aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> > > tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> > > tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> > > from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> > > question.
>
> > > My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> > > going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
> > very
> > > bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> > > these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> > > still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> > > cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> > > filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> > > filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> > > light).
>
> > > Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> > > about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> > > bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> > > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> > > Thank you.
>
> > Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
> > etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
> > water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
> > RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
> > is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
> > supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
> > 99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
> > necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
> > get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
> > PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
> > you may have to add...........
>
> > So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
> > and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
> > water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
> > intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
> > overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
> > days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
> > the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
> > working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
> > away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
> > you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
> > withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
> > fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
> > get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
> > unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
> > the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
> > toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
> > away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck
>
> > Thanks for the advice. �I am still in the planning stages, still need to buy
> > several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. �I plan on
> > setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
> > (or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). �I also am still
> > looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that may
> > change). �I will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some of the
> > necessary items like stand and water test kits. �I just don't want to start
> > with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO water
> > and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
> > (well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). �Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Hi there.
> Being that you are working with (in the fish world), quite a small
> tank.
> Being a newbie you may think differently. Â*= )
> The bigger the tank, the more room for error.
> A small tank is less forgiving, so it would be wise to keep this tank
> lightly stocked until you get some experience under your belt.
> I applaud you for researching first. That's so great! Believe it or
> not, way too many people just get a tank, fill it with water and bags
> of fish the same day. Then they wonder why their fish all died. = (
> Your idea of Tetras is fine, however, the type of tetra matters in
> your situation.
> Neons are not a good tetra for newer tanks, and absolutely not for
> cycling with.
> Other than that, they're pretty hardy. I've had many batches do quite
> well in very hard, city well water. Our town's water supply is from
> several deep wells around the town, not private wells.
> Don't believe the old myth about 1 inch of fish oer gallon of water,
> as it's quite outdated, and frankly doesn't work for most species.
> Think of adding a 10" oscar to a 10g tank, or a couple of 5" Red Devil
> males. Not going to work.
> However it works perfectly with thin bodied, inch long fish that have
> no territory requirements (like guppies).
> When it comes to fishless cycling, what type are you thinking about
> doing...or have you not gotten that far yet?
> There's a couple of bacteria starter products out there now with the
> correct type of bacteria in it. Depending on what side of the world
> you're on....Here in the states..BioSpira made by Marineland.
> UK...Bactinettes. I'm hoping these have made it across the pond or
> soon will be. Then maybe the prices will go down.
> Unfortunately, the other products out there that claim to be starters
> have the wrong nitrifying bacteria in them and don't really do much of
> anything to "start" the cycling.
> They have a later stage bacteria (nitrobacter bacteria), where as
> BioSpira has the first stage...the start up bacteria (nitrospira).
> Ones that don't do much are:
> BioZyme, StartZyme, StressZyme, Cycle, BacterBoost....etc...
> These may be helpfull after the process has already started, but isn't
> the purpose to help start it up. How these companies can get away with
> claiming what they do makes me very mad. They're misleading the
> public. However, they can because their product contains *A* Â*bacteria
> in the cycling process. (I believe there are 3 types....but it's been
> years since I read the study).
> The easiest way to cycle your tank would be to use BioSpira (or
> Bactinettes if you can find them). You set the tank up, add BioSpira,
> and fully stock your tank the next day. You then treat the tank as a
> fully seasoned tank and after the first week, start up your normal
> weekly water changes.
> This product is great, and truly does what it claims.
> However, it must be refrigerated properly. If left to warm or gets
> frozen, the live bacteria dies and the product becomes useless (it
> looks like clumpy brown stuff in water when dead). It should appear
> like cloudy water with little teeny bits in it.
> It's also hard to find because not too many stores have a refrigerator
> (most have freezers only). It's also not cheap.
> A 1 oz pack (like what you'd need) cost between $10-15 (around IL,
> USA). IMO, completely worth it. I've used it several times, with 100%
> great results.
> You can also go a slower, but easy route Â*too, cycling with household
> ammonia (plain, no perfumes or additives of any kind).
> Did you find info in your researching about the different types of
> cycling?
> I can email you links if you need any info.
> Welcome to the hobby!
> = )- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There are probably more 10 or smaller tanks sold every day and in use
inthe world and used quite sucessfully than all other tanks combined.
a 10 gal is about the norm for most foks and in no way is any harder
to dealwith than a larger one.........best to start off with a 10
anyhow as even though yu may think fish keeping is for y ou it may
turn outy it relaly is not your cup of tea...............bigger is not
better in most ways anyhow and if things go south your gonna loose a
lot more critters and $$$$$$...........I routinely keep 2 gal or less
sal****er tanks and they are a piece of cake,..............and
freshwater is not anywhere near as involved as SW is. YOur in the
right ballgame with a10 gal tank as a starter...........

Use the fish food flakes or pellets (just a little bit is needed to
start and cycle a tank) Some folks use a piece of cocktail shrimp..but
that can get icky and smelly, and in this region its not uncommon for
a person with a new setup to carry a piece of their filter media to a
store and have the shop place the media in their fitler or tank and
allow bacteria to get in it. Then place that media in their tank at
home and this establishes the bio filter with needed
bacteria..........Yea some will say your bringing home diseases etc,
but odds are your not going to quarantine any fish to begin with if
ever at all and since its a new setup with unquarantined fish being
introduced the filter media from that shop is certainly not going to
introduce any bugs your not already introducing with the
fish..............Save your money on supplements unless you need
em............Folks have cycled tanks for years and years all without
these prepacked miracle supplements and done it just
fine...........Today idiots like TYNK relies on manufactuered crap to
make their life so much easier as their learning skills are so
cramped...........There is a heap more to fish keeping than what can
be p[osted in this or any other forum or even written about in a
book,, but simply placing water substrate hooking up filters and
lights, adding some fish food to cycle tank, a few test kits to check
water parameters and essentially your in the fish keeping hobby as
muchas any one else is .........no sense getting overwhelmed with all
the "things" you "need" to have when fish can be kept just fine
without all that junk and expense. Most fish are capable of being
dumped in declorinated tap water in a glass bowl with filter attached
and do just fine..............as long as they are fed, water
parameters are correct and water temps are ok..............even
without cycling. If just a fish or two at most is added to a new tank
they will sucessfully start and complete a cycle just
fine...............so look for a hardy fish to cycle yur tank
initially if you do not want to add fish feeds etc to initiate it. A
small 10 cent feeder goldfish or a couple of danios or white clouds
will cycle a tank just fine. Just keep thebio load down until its
established and you can pretty well use most anyfish...............

[AquariumFatasies[_2_]]

On Dec 30, 9:41Â*am, AquariumFatasies > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 9:19Â*am, Tynk > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 30, 12:37�am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 29, 2:22 am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
> > > > Hello everyone,
>
> > > > I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
> > > > long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> > > > aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> > > > tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> > > > tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> > > > from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> > > > question.
>
> > > > My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> > > > going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
> > > very
> > > > bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> > > > these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> > > > still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> > > > cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> > > > filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> > > > filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> > > > light).
>
> > > > Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> > > > about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> > > > bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean.
>
> > > > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> > > > Thank you.
>
> > > Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
> > > etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
> > > water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
> > > RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
> > > is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
> > > supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
> > > 99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
> > > necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
> > > get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
> > > PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
> > > you may have to add...........
>
> > > So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
> > > and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
> > > water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
> > > intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
> > > overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
> > > days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
> > > the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
> > > working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
> > > away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
> > > you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
> > > withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
> > > fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
> > > get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
> > > unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
> > > the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
> > > toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
> > > away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck
>
> > > Thanks for the advice. �I am still in the planning stages, still need to buy
> > > several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. �I plan on
> > > setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
> > > (or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). �I also am still
> > > looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that may
> > > change). �I will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some of the
> > > necessary items like stand and water test kits. �I just don't want to start
> > > with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO water
> > > and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
> > > (well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). �Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Hi there.
> > Being that you are working with (in the fish world), quite a small
> > tank.
> > Being a newbie you may think differently. Â*= )
> > The bigger the tank, the more room for error.
> > A small tank is less forgiving, so it would be wise to keep this tank
> > lightly stocked until you get some experience under your belt.
> > I applaud you for researching first. That's so great! Believe it or
> > not, way too many people just get a tank, fill it with water and bags
> > of fish the same day. Then they wonder why their fish all died. = (
> > Your idea of Tetras is fine, however, the type of tetra matters in
> > your situation.
> > Neons are not a good tetra for newer tanks, and absolutely not for
> > cycling with.
> > Other than that, they're pretty hardy. I've had many batches do quite
> > well in very hard, city well water. Our town's water supply is from
> > several deep wells around the town, not private wells.
> > Don't believe the old myth about 1 inch of fish oer gallon of water,
> > as it's quite outdated, and frankly doesn't work for most species.
> > Think of adding a 10" oscar to a 10g tank, or a couple of 5" Red Devil
> > males. Not going to work.
> > However it works perfectly with thin bodied, inch long fish that have
> > no territory requirements (like guppies).
> > When it comes to fishless cycling, what type are you thinking about
> > doing...or have you not gotten that far yet?
> > There's a couple of bacteria starter products out there now with the
> > correct type of bacteria in it. Depending on what side of the world
> > you're on....Here in the states..BioSpira made by Marineland.
> > UK...Bactinettes. I'm hoping these have made it across the pond or
> > soon will be. Then maybe the prices will go down.
> > Unfortunately, the other products out there that claim to be starters
> > have the wrong nitrifying bacteria in them and don't really do much of
> > anything to "start" the cycling.
> > They have a later stage bacteria (nitrobacter bacteria), where as
> > BioSpira has the first stage...the start up bacteria (nitrospira).
> > Ones that don't do much are:
> > BioZyme, StartZyme, StressZyme, Cycle, BacterBoost....etc...
> > These may be helpfull after the process has already started, but isn't
> > the purpose to help start it up. How these companies can get away with
> > claiming what they do makes me very mad. They're misleading the
> > public. However, they can because their product contains *A* Â*bacteria
> > in the cycling process. (I believe there are 3 types....but it's been
> > years since I read the study).
> > The easiest way to cycle your tank would be to use BioSpira (or
> > Bactinettes if you can find them). You set the tank up, add BioSpira,
> > and fully stock your tank the next day. You then treat the tank as a
> > fully seasoned tank and after the first week, start up your normal
> > weekly water changes.
> > This product is great, and truly does what it claims.
> > However, it must be refrigerated properly. If left to warm or gets
> > frozen, the live bacteria dies and the product becomes useless (it
> > looks like clumpy brown stuff in water when dead). It should appear
> > like cloudy water with little teeny bits in it.
> > It's also hard to find because not too many stores have a refrigerator
> > (most have freezers only). It's also not cheap.
> > A 1 oz pack (like what you'd need) cost between $10-15 (around IL,
> > USA). IMO, completely worth it. I've used it several times, with 100%
> > great results.
> > You can also go a slower, but easy route Â*too, cycling with household
> > ammonia (plain, no perfumes or additives of any kind).
> > Did you find info in your researching about the different types of
> > cycling?
> > I can email you links if you need any info.
> > Welcome to the hobby!
> > = )- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> There are probably more 10 or smaller tanks sold every day and in use
> inthe world and used quite sucessfully than all other tanks combined.
> a 10 gal is about the norm for most foks and in no way is any harder
> to dealwith than a larger one.........best to start off with a 10
> anyhow as even though yu may think fish keeping is for y ou it may
> turn outy it relaly is not your cup of tea...............bigger is not
> better in most ways anyhow and if things go south your gonna loose a
> lot more critters and $$$$$$...........I routinely keep 2 gal or less
> sal****er tanks and they are a piece of cake,..............and
> freshwater is not anywhere near as involved as SW is. YOur in the
> right ballgame with a10 gal tank as a starter...........
>
> Use the fish food flakes or pellets (just a little bit is needed to
> start and cycle a tank) Some folks use a piece of cocktail shrimp..but
> that can get icky and smelly, and in this region its not uncommon for
> a person with a new setup to carry a piece of their filter media to a
> store and have the shop place the media in their fitler or tank and
> allow bacteria to get in it. Then place that media in their tank at
> home and this establishes Â*the bio filter with needed
> bacteria..........Yea some will say your bringing home diseases etc,
> but odds are your not going to quarantine any fish to begin with if
> ever at all and since its a new setup with unquarantined fish being
> introduced Â*the filter media from that shop is certainly not going to
> introduce any bugs your not already introducing with the
> fish..............Save your money on supplements unless you need
> em............Folks have cycled tanks for years and years all without
> these prepacked miracle supplements and done it just
> fine...........Today idiots like TYNK relies on manufactuered ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Earlier this morning we made our weekly trip to town and since we went
to a few of the big box pet stores we checked into the so called live
bacteria and spirulinia , and its all got a shelf life on it. None of
it is really cheap especially when yu think you can achieve as good a
community of bacteria in a week as this does for little to no cost if
yu can wait a day and odds are a cultuired colony of baxcteria grown
on the spot is going to be much healtheir overall and work than crap
in a bottle you do not have a clue on as to how it was stored or kept
and trasnsported.. If its not sorted and kept properly its no better
than adding jellow pudding to the tank.With the way associates in the
stores are and how things are routinely shipped and in transit in high
temps and cold temps its a crap shoot to use anay of the so called
miracle additives. For the most part about all they suceed in doing is
separating the fish keeper from their money. Samr thing for those
miracle drugs and treatments like Pima and Mela
fix..............JOKE's.......ONly real good meds are Salt if needed,
and the prepackaged drugs like Mardells packages and sells which is
commonly found in a blue package in most LFS's. Other than known
drugs, the sulfas and furozanes etc Amquel is perhaps one that is
still worthwhile espeically in locking up ammonia etc like when pumps
or filters etc fail or power outages etc..........donl;t wasste the
money on any of the stress coat meds as all they do reallay is add a
organic load to the system and in times when oxygen is important they
usually reduce the availablitiy. HOwever straight up amquel is just
fine and most any koi keeper is going to have some on hand.......and a
tropical fish enthusiasat is no different, but save your money on the
other snake oils the pet shops seem to have an over abundance of.

[AquariumFatasies[_2_]]

On Dec 30, 3:47Â*pm, AquariumFatasies > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 9:41Â*am, AquariumFatasies > wrote:
>
> > On Dec 30, 9:19Â*am, Tynk > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 30, 12:37�am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 29, 2:22 am, "Neil Webster" > wrote:
>
> > > > > Hello everyone,
>
> > > > > I received an aquarium kit and am researching how to set it up. This is a
> > > > > long-time wish finally coming to fruition, but I have no experience with
> > > > > aquariums (or is it aquaria?). It is a simple 10 gallon rectangular glass
> > > > > tank. I hope to be able to set up a nice freshwater environment for
> > > > > tropical fish. I have read several FAQs and have borrowed several books
> > > > > from my local library. However, I have not found an answer to this
> > > > > question.
>
> > > > > My house is supplied with water from a very old well. I have the water
> > > > > going through a filter system and a softener, however, the raw water is
> > > > very
> > > > > bad (iron bacteria, causing rust stains on everything, odor/taste bad) and
> > > > > these do not get rid of it all. They help for our (human) purposes, but we
> > > > > still buy filtered water from our local grocery store for drinking and
> > > > > cooking. The purchased water is municipal tap water (Detroit, MI) that is
> > > > > filtered through a system at the store (Culligan system, several different
> > > > > filters including activated charcoal, reverse osmosis, and ultraviolet
> > > > > light).
>
> > > > > Which water would be best for me to use in the aquarium? I am concerned
> > > > > about the well water having bad things in it, particularly the iron
> > > > > bacteria, but also concerned about the store water being too clean..
>
> > > > > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> > > > > Thank you.
>
> > > > Well water in a lot of places beside haivng undesired iron bacteria
> > > > etc is also low in dissolved oxygen.........I would opt for bottled
> > > > water that is sold in stores in 5 gal; jugs etc. I wuld make sure its
> > > > RO (Reverse Osmosis) water. A lot of places sells RODI water and that
> > > > is fine for a tank but it normally requires some pretty heavy
> > > > supplementing to use in freshwater tanks as its essentially water with
> > > > 99.9999999% of everything thats in it stripped out. It may also be
> > > > necessary to buffer or supplement the RO or bottled water. You need to
> > > > get a PH, nitrite, ammonia and KH or water hardness test kit, and the
> > > > PH and hardness test kit will determine what additivies (supplements)
> > > > you may have to add...........
>
> > > > So set up your aquarium, and let it cycle without any fish intially
> > > > and take some water readings and make any adjustments to get yuor
> > > > water parameters where they need to be for the type of fish you
> > > > intend to keep. Once cycled add a fish or two at a time and do not
> > > > overload it. Its also b est to setup a tank and let it run for a few
> > > > days or week or so to cycle and to operational check the filters , get
> > > > the heater adjusted and in general give it a trial run to see its all
> > > > working as it should be, before adding live critters....I would stay
> > > > away from goldfish etc as they will soon outgrow a tank of the size
> > > > you have. Live bearer fish are quite hardy and easy to keep, however
> > > > withtheir spawing its easy to get inundated with a lot of undesired
> > > > fish..........Use caution in picking out yuor fish at the store so yu
> > > > get fish that get along together and do well in a community type tank,
> > > > unless your looking for a specific breed.....Pay close attention to
> > > > the fish so you do not get sickly or emanicated fish. Ask the store to
> > > > toss in a bit of food so you can see them actually eatingm, and stay
> > > > away from those that refuse food..........Have fun and good luck
>
> > > > Thanks for the advice. �I am still in the planning stages, still need to buy
> > > > several items, including stand, heater, gravel, decor, etc. �I plan on
> > > > setting up the aquarium and getting the nitrogen cycle going without fish
> > > > (or adding one fish at a time as some have recommended). �I also am still
> > > > looking into what type of fish to place (leaning toward tetras but that may
> > > > change). �I will be going to local PetSmart this week to get some of the
> > > > necessary items like stand and water test kits. �I just don't want to start
> > > > with one type of water and find it too difficult to get just right (RO water
> > > > and adjusting KH and pH) or another type that may be harmful to the fish
> > > > (well water with right hardness and pH but harmful iron bacteria). �Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > Hi there.
> > > Being that you are working with (in the fish world), quite a small
> > > tank.
> > > Being a newbie you may think differently. Â*= )
> > > The bigger the tank, the more room for error.
> > > A small tank is less forgiving, so it would be wise to keep this tank
> > > lightly stocked until you get some experience under your belt.
> > > I applaud you for researching first. That's so great! Believe it or
> > > not, way too many people just get a tank, fill it with water and bags
> > > of fish the same day. Then they wonder why their fish all died. = (
> > > Your idea of Tetras is fine, however, the type of tetra matters in
> > > your situation.
> > > Neons are not a good tetra for newer tanks, and absolutely not for
> > > cycling with.
> > > Other than that, they're pretty hardy. I've had many batches do quite
> > > well in very hard, city well water. Our town's water supply is from
> > > several deep wells around the town, not private wells.
> > > Don't believe the old myth about 1 inch of fish oer gallon of water,
> > > as it's quite outdated, and frankly doesn't work for most species.
> > > Think of adding a 10" oscar to a 10g tank, or a couple of 5" Red Devil
> > > males. Not going to work.
> > > However it works perfectly with thin bodied, inch long fish that have
> > > no territory requirements (like guppies).
> > > When it comes to fishless cycling, what type are you thinking about
> > > doing...or have you not gotten that far yet?
> > > There's a couple of bacteria starter products out there now with the
> > > correct type of bacteria in it. Depending on what side of the world
> > > you're on....Here in the states..BioSpira made by Marineland.
> > > UK...Bactinettes. I'm hoping these have made it across the pond or
> > > soon will be. Then maybe the prices will go down.
> > > Unfortunately, the other products out there that claim to be starters
> > > have the wrong nitrifying bacteria in them and don't really do much of
> > > anything to "start" the cycling.
> > > They have a later stage bacteria (nitrobacter bacteria), where as
> > > BioSpira has the first stage...the start up bacteria (nitrospira).
> > > Ones that don't do much are:
> > > BioZyme, StartZyme, StressZyme, Cycle, BacterBoost....etc...
> > > These may be helpfull after the process has already started, but isn't
> > > the purpose to help start it up. How these companies can get away with
> > > claiming what they do makes me very mad. They're misleading the
> > > public. However, they can because their product contains *A* Â*bacteria
> > > in the cycling process. (I believe there are 3 types....but it's been
> > > years since I read the study).
> > > The easiest way to cycle your tank would be to use BioSpira (or
> > > Bactinettes if you can find them). You set the tank up, add BioSpira,
> > > and fully stock your tank the next day. You then treat the tank as a
> > > fully seasoned tank and after the first week, start up your normal
> > > weekly water changes.
> > > This product is great, and truly does what it claims.
> > > However, it must be refrigerated properly. If left to warm or gets
> > > frozen, the live bacteria dies and the product becomes useless (it
> > > looks like clumpy brown stuff in water when dead). It should appear
> > > like cloudy water with little teeny bits in it.
> > > It's also hard to find because not too many stores have a refrigerator
> > > (most have freezers only). It's also not cheap.
> > > A 1 oz pack (like what you'd need) cost between $10-15 (around IL,
> > > USA). IMO, completely worth it. I've used it several times, with 100%
> > > great results.
> > > You can also go a slower, but easy route Â*too, cycling with household
> > > ammonia (plain, no perfumes or additives of any kind).
> > > Did you find info in your researching about the different types of
> > > cycling?
> > > I can email you links if you need any info.
> > > Welcome to the hobby!
> > > = )- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > There are probably more 10 or smaller tanks sold every day and in use
> > inthe world and used quite sucessfully than all other tanks combined.
> > a 10 gal is about the norm for most foks and in no way is any harder
> > to dealwith than a larger one.........best to start off with a 10
> > anyhow as even though yu may think fish keeping is for y ou it may
> > turn outy it relaly is not your cup of tea...............bigger is not
> > better in most ways anyhow and if things go south your gonna loose a
> > lot more critters and $$$$$$...........I routinely keep 2 gal or less
> > sal****er tanks and they are a piece of cake,..............and
> > freshwater is not anywhere near as involved as SW is. YOur in the
> > right ballgame with a10 gal tank as a starter...........
>
> > Use the fish food flakes or pellets (just a little bit is needed to
> > start and cycle a tank) Some folks use a piece of cocktail shrimp..but
> > that can get icky and smelly, and in this region its not uncommon for
> > a person with a new setup to carry a piece of their filter media to a
> > store and have the shop place the media in their fitler or tank and
> > allow bacteria to get in it. Then place that media in their tank at
> > home and this establishes Â*the bio filter with needed
> > bacteria..........Yea some will say your bringing home diseases etc,
> > but odds are your not going to quarantine any fish to begin with if
> > ever at all and since its a new setup with unquarantined fish being
> > introduced Â*the filter media from that shop is certainly not going to
> > introduce any bugs your not already introducing with the
> > fish..............Save your money on supplements unless you need
> > em............Folks have cycled tanks for years and years all without
> > these prepacked miracle supplements and done it just
> > fine...........Today idiots like TYNK relies on manufactuered ...
>
> > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Earlier this morning we made our weekly trip to town and since we went
> to a few of the big box pet stores we checked into the so called live
> bacteria and spirulinia , and its all got a shelf life on it. None of
> it is really cheap especially when yu think you can achieve as good a
> community of bacteria in a week as this does for little to no cost if
> yu can wait a day and odds are a cultuired colony of baxcteria grown
> on the spot is going to be much healtheir overall and work than crap
> in a bottle you do not have a clue on as to how it was stored or kept
> and trasnsported.. If its not sorted and kept properly its no better
> than adding jellow pudding to the tank.With the way associates in the
> stores are and how things are routinely shipped and in transit in high
> temps and cold temps its a crap shoot to use anay of the so called
> miracle additives. For the most part about all they suceed in doing is
> separating the fish keeper from their money. Samr thing for those
> miracle drugs and treatments like Pima and Mela
> fix..............JOKE's.......ONly real good meds are Salt if needed,
> and the prepackaged drugs like Mardells packages and sells which is
> commonly found in a blue package in most LFS's. Other than known
> drugs, the sulfas and furozanes etc Amquel is perhaps one that is
> still worthwhile espeically in locking up ammonia etc like when pumps
> or filters etc fail Â*or power outages etc..........donl;t wasste the
> money on any of the stress coat meds as all they do reallay is add a
> organic load to the system and in times when oxygen is important they
> usually reduce the availablitiy. HOwever straight up amquel is just
> fine and most any koi keeper is going to have some on hand.......and a
> tropical fish enthusiasat is no different, but save your money on the
> other snake oils the pet shops seem to have an over abundance of.

I stand on what I posted. Bio whatebver is a waste of money and
nothing but snake oil and is a money maker for the manufactuer and a
rip off for the averageenthusiast. Its not needed as there are ways to
create the needed colony of bacteria.Tynk is just ablow hard with a
penchant to dissagree if it was not her initial answer to a post that
was made...........Tynk really needs to stay inthe porn groups that
she migrated out of and these groups could go back to some sort of
normal being again.............Tynk cann ot see that far ahead however
as its not on her agenda to allow the groups to flourish as she is
hell bend on pushing to a moderated group as is evident by her and
Gills hate groups and other posts..........If she gave a **** about
the usenet groups she would initiate a kill filter and get on with
busienss, so ask yourself, Why does Tynk not use a kill filter and
kill file the so called troublemakers and bump on. Because its not in
her plans as she has the need to disrupt for the plan to come
together.thats why!

[Randy Webb]

Tynk said the following on 1/1/2008 11:28 AM:
> On Dec 31 2007, 8:50�am, AquariumFatasies > wrote:

<snip>

> I think you missed that point Roy.

To get the point, it would require that "Roy" employ some mind power and
try to comprehend what he reads. I contemplated busting the myths in
that post and chose not to. I don't think Roy would get it.

> Why does Tynk not use a kill filter and
>> kill file the so called troublemakers and bump on. Because its not in
>> her plans as she has the need to disrupt for the plan to come
>> together.
>
> Actually, this is your fantasy Roy.
> Everyone who accesses this group via Google (YOU KNOW THIS ROY because
> YOU have even said this before...)
> Google doesn't have troll filters.

<sigh> Yes, that is very true. Would make Google a little easier to use
(even for researching old threads) if it did.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind