Discus lying on the floor gasping: Any hope?

[alex crouvier]

I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed my Discus
tank.
An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom and my
pair of
Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50 gallon
empty tank, put
in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an external
filtration that runs
for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour with minor
fungus attack.
But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I wonder if his
days
are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any feedback or
advice will
be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
a.c.

[Top_Bhoy]

Some help is required:

What disease were you trying to fix?
What was the medication used?
What doseage rate did the instructions indicate?
What dosage rate did you use?
What size of tank did you medicate?

You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the same
characteristics and temp.

Top_Bhoy


"alex crouvier" > wrote in message
...
> I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed my Discus
> tank.
> An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom and my
> pair of
> Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50 gallon
> empty tank, put
> in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an external
> filtration that runs
> for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour with minor
> fungus attack.
> But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I wonder if
his
> days
> are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any feedback or
> advice will
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> a.c.
>
>

[Top_Bhoy]

Perhaps I should clarify a little by the use of the word fresh...this is
meant to pertain to water which has been treated either by the use of a
proprierity water product or carbon filtered, stored, etc.. - Not untreated
water direct from the tap.

Its amazing what good clean water can do for discus (and fish in general) so
patience may be the key here. I would also try and avoid adding any more
substances at least for the moment - the fish seem to have been under enough
stress in the last couple of days and will be in a weakened enough condition
without adding any further complications.

One other point..does the fish eat or look as if its interested in feeding?

Top_Bhoy

"You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the
same
characteristics and temp."



"Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
...
> Some help is required:
>
> What disease were you trying to fix?
> What was the medication used?
> What doseage rate did the instructions indicate?
> What dosage rate did you use?
> What size of tank did you medicate?
>
> You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the
same
> characteristics and temp.
>
> Top_Bhoy
>
>
> "alex crouvier" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed my
Discus
> > tank.
> > An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom and my
> > pair of
> > Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50 gallon
> > empty tank, put
> > in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an external
> > filtration that runs
> > for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour with
minor
> > fungus attack.
> > But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I wonder if
> his
> > days
> > are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any feedback
or
> > advice will
> > be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > a.c.
> >
> >
>
>

[alex crouvier]

The medication is a local made purplish liquid that is supposed to
combat gill flukes. One of my Discus is suffering from some kind of
minor irritation. The dose I put in is double the amt recommended.
My Blue Ram and SAE died instantly.
Now one the Discus is fully recovering in 50-gallon bare-bottom
tank whose water I change every 2 days (30%). The other Discus
(in the same 50-gallon tank) is still lying on its sides breathing hard,
though it is a little less frantic. Its gills are flapping outward...
ghastly sight..I wonder if all hope is lost here.....


"Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
...
> Perhaps I should clarify a little by the use of the word fresh...this is
> meant to pertain to water which has been treated either by the use of a
> proprierity water product or carbon filtered, stored, etc.. - Not
untreated
> water direct from the tap.
>
> Its amazing what good clean water can do for discus (and fish in general)
so
> patience may be the key here. I would also try and avoid adding any more
> substances at least for the moment - the fish seem to have been under
enough
> stress in the last couple of days and will be in a weakened enough
condition
> without adding any further complications.
>
> One other point..does the fish eat or look as if its interested in
feeding?
>
> Top_Bhoy
>
> "You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the
> same
> characteristics and temp."
>
>
>
> "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Some help is required:
> >
> > What disease were you trying to fix?
> > What was the medication used?
> > What doseage rate did the instructions indicate?
> > What dosage rate did you use?
> > What size of tank did you medicate?
> >
> > You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the
> same
> > characteristics and temp.
> >
> > Top_Bhoy
> >
> >
> > "alex crouvier" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed my
> Discus
> > > tank.
> > > An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom and
my
> > > pair of
> > > Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50
gallon
> > > empty tank, put
> > > in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an external
> > > filtration that runs
> > > for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour with
> minor
> > > fungus attack.
> > > But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I wonder
if
> > his
> > > days
> > > are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any
feedback
> or
> > > advice will
> > > be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > a.c.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Top_Bhoy]

I would, for the next several days at least. up the frequency of the water
changes to daily and keep your fingers crossed. I guess it is possible the
gills have been damaged beyond repair and all is lost but equally valid is
that it is also possible that with rest and a little time and patience they
may recover. See what they are like in a week or so time. and hold back from
putting further medication into the tank as they will be stressed enough at
the moment without adding further meds - particularly as there is no
apparent disease and you have a high degree of certainty that the cause is
down to a chemical overdose..

Top_Bhoy


"alex crouvier" > wrote in message
...
> The medication is a local made purplish liquid that is supposed to
> combat gill flukes. One of my Discus is suffering from some kind of
> minor irritation. The dose I put in is double the amt recommended.
> My Blue Ram and SAE died instantly.
> Now one the Discus is fully recovering in 50-gallon bare-bottom
> tank whose water I change every 2 days (30%). The other Discus
> (in the same 50-gallon tank) is still lying on its sides breathing hard,
> though it is a little less frantic. Its gills are flapping outward...
> ghastly sight..I wonder if all hope is lost here.....
>
>
> "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Perhaps I should clarify a little by the use of the word fresh...this is
> > meant to pertain to water which has been treated either by the use of a
> > proprierity water product or carbon filtered, stored, etc.. - Not
> untreated
> > water direct from the tap.
> >
> > Its amazing what good clean water can do for discus (and fish in
general)
> so
> > patience may be the key here. I would also try and avoid adding any more
> > substances at least for the moment - the fish seem to have been under
> enough
> > stress in the last couple of days and will be in a weakened enough
> condition
> > without adding any further complications.
> >
> > One other point..does the fish eat or look as if its interested in
> feeding?
> >
> > Top_Bhoy
> >
> > "You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the
> > same
> > characteristics and temp."
> >
> >
> >
> > "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Some help is required:
> > >
> > > What disease were you trying to fix?
> > > What was the medication used?
> > > What doseage rate did the instructions indicate?
> > > What dosage rate did you use?
> > > What size of tank did you medicate?
> > >
> > > You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of
the
> > same
> > > characteristics and temp.
> > >
> > > Top_Bhoy
> > >
> > >
> > > "alex crouvier" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed my
> > Discus
> > > > tank.
> > > > An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom
and
> my
> > > > pair of
> > > > Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50
> gallon
> > > > empty tank, put
> > > > in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an
external
> > > > filtration that runs
> > > > for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour with
> > minor
> > > > fungus attack.
> > > > But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I
wonder
> if
> > > his
> > > > days
> > > > are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any
> feedback
> > or
> > > > advice will
> > > > be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > a.c.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Jim Morcombe]

A double dose of any medication should not kill fish.
There should always be a large safeyty factor built into any medication as
there will always be some fish that are less tolerant to a medication than
others.

Jim


alex crouvier > wrote in message
...
> The medication is a local made purplish liquid that is supposed to
> combat gill flukes. One of my Discus is suffering from some kind of
> minor irritation. The dose I put in is double the amt recommended.
> My Blue Ram and SAE died instantly.
> Now one the Discus is fully recovering in 50-gallon bare-bottom
> tank whose water I change every 2 days (30%). The other Discus
> (in the same 50-gallon tank) is still lying on its sides breathing hard,
> though it is a little less frantic. Its gills are flapping outward...
> ghastly sight..I wonder if all hope is lost here.....
>
>
> "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Perhaps I should clarify a little by the use of the word fresh...this is
> > meant to pertain to water which has been treated either by the use of a
> > proprierity water product or carbon filtered, stored, etc.. - Not
> untreated
> > water direct from the tap.
> >
> > Its amazing what good clean water can do for discus (and fish in
general)
> so
> > patience may be the key here. I would also try and avoid adding any more
> > substances at least for the moment - the fish seem to have been under
> enough
> > stress in the last couple of days and will be in a weakened enough
> condition
> > without adding any further complications.
> >
> > One other point..does the fish eat or look as if its interested in
> feeding?
> >
> > Top_Bhoy
> >
> > "You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of the
> > same
> > characteristics and temp."
> >
> >
> >
> > "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Some help is required:
> > >
> > > What disease were you trying to fix?
> > > What was the medication used?
> > > What doseage rate did the instructions indicate?
> > > What dosage rate did you use?
> > > What size of tank did you medicate?
> > >
> > > You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of
the
> > same
> > > characteristics and temp.
> > >
> > > Top_Bhoy
> > >
> > >
> > > "alex crouvier" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed my
> > Discus
> > > > tank.
> > > > An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom
and
> my
> > > > pair of
> > > > Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50
> gallon
> > > > empty tank, put
> > > > in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an
external
> > > > filtration that runs
> > > > for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour with
> > minor
> > > > fungus attack.
> > > > But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I
wonder
> if
> > > his
> > > > days
> > > > are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any
> feedback
> > or
> > > > advice will
> > > > be greatly appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > a.c.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Top_Bhoy]

What this episode highlights is the need to know what the ingredients are of
any medication prior to dosing as some fish are not as tolerant of come
chemicals as others and should anything go wrong, as it did in this case,
there may be some further information available to help effect a remedy more
speedily (if any). It also highlights that adding 'unknown' additives poses
more problems than it solves and that in this instance, we have no way of
knowing what the original strength of the med. was. What is significant is
that the effects of the fish gasping and others dying were almost
instantaeneous with the addition of the med, so, with this given info, IMO,
the symptoms are in all probability, connected with the medication.

Top_Bhoy


"Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
...
> A double dose of any medication should not kill fish.
> There should always be a large safeyty factor built into any medication as
> there will always be some fish that are less tolerant to a medication than
> others.
>
> Jim
>
>
> alex crouvier > wrote in message
> ...
> > The medication is a local made purplish liquid that is supposed to
> > combat gill flukes. One of my Discus is suffering from some kind of
> > minor irritation. The dose I put in is double the amt recommended.
> > My Blue Ram and SAE died instantly.
> > Now one the Discus is fully recovering in 50-gallon bare-bottom
> > tank whose water I change every 2 days (30%). The other Discus
> > (in the same 50-gallon tank) is still lying on its sides breathing hard,
> > though it is a little less frantic. Its gills are flapping outward...
> > ghastly sight..I wonder if all hope is lost here.....
> >
> >
> > "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Perhaps I should clarify a little by the use of the word fresh...this
is
> > > meant to pertain to water which has been treated either by the use of
a
> > > proprierity water product or carbon filtered, stored, etc.. - Not
> > untreated
> > > water direct from the tap.
> > >
> > > Its amazing what good clean water can do for discus (and fish in
> general)
> > so
> > > patience may be the key here. I would also try and avoid adding any
more
> > > substances at least for the moment - the fish seem to have been under
> > enough
> > > stress in the last couple of days and will be in a weakened enough
> > condition
> > > without adding any further complications.
> > >
> > > One other point..does the fish eat or look as if its interested in
> > feeding?
> > >
> > > Top_Bhoy
> > >
> > > "You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of
the
> > > same
> > > characteristics and temp."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Top_Bhoy" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Some help is required:
> > > >
> > > > What disease were you trying to fix?
> > > > What was the medication used?
> > > > What doseage rate did the instructions indicate?
> > > > What dosage rate did you use?
> > > > What size of tank did you medicate?
> > > >
> > > > You could try 10-15% daily water changes using fresh clean water of
> the
> > > same
> > > > characteristics and temp.
> > > >
> > > > Top_Bhoy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "alex crouvier" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I read a medication dosage direction incorrectly and I overdosed
my
> > > Discus
> > > > > tank.
> > > > > An hour later I found my Blue Ram and SAE dead on the tank bottom
> and
> > my
> > > > > pair of
> > > > > Discus lying gasping hopelessly. I quickly transfer them to a 50
> > gallon
> > > > > empty tank, put
> > > > > in some salt and run an airstone vigorously. The tank has an
> external
> > > > > filtration that runs
> > > > > for more than 4 months. One of the Discus recovered in 24 hour
with
> > > minor
> > > > > fungus attack.
> > > > > But my other Discus is still on its side gasping like crazy. I
> wonder
> > if
> > > > his
> > > > > days
> > > > > are numbered and if there is any hope, what else can I do? Any
> > feedback
> > > or
> > > > > advice will
> > > > > be greatly appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > a.c.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[NetMax]

"Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
...
> A double dose of any medication should not kill fish.
> There should always be a large safeyty factor built into any medication
as
> there will always be some fish that are less tolerant to a medication
than
> others.
>
> Jim

Agreed, but:
<snip>
> > The medication is a local made purplish liquid that is supposed to
> > combat gill flukes.
<snip>

Sounds like someone's home-grown elixir?!? The best thing to do for
rapid respiration would IMO be to keep the water as oxygenated as
possible (air curtain and water changes). A common treatment for Discus
is to raise the temperature, but I think that would have the reverse
effect as it would decrease the amount of oxygen in the water, so ymmv

NetMax

[Rich Grenfell]

I'm a little late here....but the purple liquid that you speak of is
most likely potassium permaganate. A slight overdose could kill them
nevermind a double one. The fact that your surviving discus had a
fungal infection makes me think it was PP even more, as this med
oxidizes most anything live that it comes into contact with, and so
destroys the slime coat. it is a wonderful med for external issues,
but it is also a dangerous one and should only be used when you know
what you are doing. Moving the discus was probably the best thing you
could have done. did your other discus survive?

Rich


"NetMax" > wrote in message >...
> "Jim Morcombe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A double dose of any medication should not kill fish.
> > There should always be a large safeyty factor built into any medication
> as
> > there will always be some fish that are less tolerant to a medication
> than
> > others.
> >
> > Jim
>
> Agreed, but:
> <snip>
> > > The medication is a local made purplish liquid that is supposed to
> > > combat gill flukes.
> <snip>
>
> Sounds like someone's home-grown elixir?!? The best thing to do for
> rapid respiration would IMO be to keep the water as oxygenated as
> possible (air curtain and water changes). A common treatment for Discus
> is to raise the temperature, but I think that would have the reverse
> effect as it would decrease the amount of oxygen in the water, so ymmv
>
> NetMax