My Black Moor Died Today ;-(

[L u]

He was my favorite, and my son's favorite. I barely had him 2 weeks. He
had white dots on him, and the day he died, the underside of him was
turning gold. He was healthy when I got him.

[ExPat]

On Mar 10, 11:13*pm, (L u) wrote:
> He was my favorite, and my son's favorite. I barely had him 2 weeks. He
> had white dots on him, and the day he died, the underside of him was
> turning gold. He was healthy when I got him.

If he was healthy when you got him then it had to be the conditions he
was living in that did it in. Whats the parameters? Sounds like ICH,
but thats just a guess at this point. ICH is brought on by stresses
such as overcrowding or improper water parameters or introducing a
fish that is sick into the tank without it being observed in a QT tank
first. All those watere changes to clear up cloudy water was also
taking away beneficial bacteria which are essential for proper
conditions, and an undergravel filter is just not capabloe of those
conditions with such a load and being so newly setup...It was
inevitable that fish looses will occur. Get a larger tank, a decent
filter, proper water test kits, and stop adding more fish to do the
job of what a human needs to do, and quit mixing gold fish and
tropicals.

[L u]

I remember I emptied fish water from the store's tank into my tank, so
that could be where he got Ich from. But then again, I'm not sure if the
Moor was in that bag that I emptied. It could have been a different
fish. I realized shortly on, that I shouldn't have done that..and to
just float the bag, but ditch the store water. And, once it happened by
accident when I was cutting a bag.
I do have an ammonia test kit. I will NEVER mix goldfish with tripicals
again. In fact, I may never get goldies again.

[ExPat]

On Mar 12, 6:36*pm, (L u) wrote:
> I remember I emptied fish water from the store's tank into my tank, so
> that could be where he got Ich from. But then again, I'm not sure if the
> Moor was in that bag that I emptied. It could have been a different
> fish. I realized shortly on, that I shouldn't have done that..and to
> just float the bag, but ditch the store water. And, once it happened by
> accident when I was cutting a bag.
> I do have an ammonia test kit. I will NEVER mix goldfish with tripicals
> again. In fact, I may never get goldies again.

That is why you really need to have a QT tank, and then yuou can watch
the fisha nd not dump a fish or the water into an extablished healthy
tank as such. You also need more than an ammonia test kit. PH,
nitrate and nitrite is also needed if your going to do it right. The
water is one thing, but odds are if the fish was in that water and it
had ich then it wouldmake no difference if you dumped inthe water or
not, you added a sick fish to a tank without the problem and started
to cross contaminate by this process. If your using the same net
between the two tanks you can also introduce what ever is wrong with
the one tank into the other as well. Unfortunately petshops just want
to sell a basic bill of goods as they consider you hooked and apt to
buy more fish and meds etc so coupled with their being stupid they
also use you as a constant means of making money form you by not ever
reveal;ing exactly what all you really need, or else the totalprice
would probbaly scare a lot offolks off. There is more to keeping fish
than a glass box with water and filter and light........a lot more!
But its not hard, and there is not any what I would call cheap way
initially to get started correctly.......

[L u]

Thank you. I was really starting to get discouraged today. I asked my
friend if she ever had an aquarium, and she said she had a beautiful 20
gallon, and said her water was always clear. She said to get catfish for
clear water, and not to change too much water. As I said, I have 1
corycat in a 2.5 gallon tank with my gourami, and another corycat in the
other 5 gallon tank with the 2 goldies. She also said goldies need to be
just by themselves.
Tonight, I tested the ammonia levels of the goldie tank, and the test
tube was yellowish...the other tank with the gourami and cory had more
ammonia.

So I got rid of some water of both the tanks, replaced with aged water,
and added a conditioner, and some AmmoLock to both tanks. The ph level
was way up there! Maybe because of the seashells that were in the water?
So I removed all the shells. The ph is still very high, even after the
water changes.

I know one thing: I'm NOT buying anymore fish. It seems like a difficult
hobby to maintain. And frustrating.

[ExPat]

On Mar 13, 12:03*am, (L u) wrote:
> Thank you. I was really starting to get discouraged today. I asked my
> friend if she ever had an aquarium, and she said she had a beautiful 20
> gallon, and said her water was always clear. She said to get catfish for
> clear water, and not to change too much water. As I said, I have 1
> corycat in a 2.5 gallon tank with my gourami, and another corycat in the
> other 5 gallon tank with the 2 goldies. She also said goldies need to be
> just by themselves.
> Tonight, I tested the ammonia levels of the goldie tank, and the test
> tube was yellowish...the other tank with the gourami and cory had more
> ammonia.
>
> So I got rid of some water of both the tanks, replaced with aged water,
> and added a conditioner, and some AmmoLock to both tanks. The ph level
> was way up there! Maybe because of the seashells that were in the water?
> So I removed all the shells. The ph is still very high, even after the
> water changes.
>
> I know one thing: I'm NOT buying anymore fish. It seems like a difficult
> hobby to maintain. And frustrating.

Keeping fish is EASY but there is a given process about doing it that
must be followed or your doomed for disaster as you have found out.
SOme folks may luck out with deviations but usually it will bit yu
hard eventually if its not done as it should be. What you really need
is limit yourself to a couple of fish, leave the tank decorations (sea
shells etc alone for now until you understand fully how ph is affected
by what is in the tank) and allow a tank to cycle fully with a GOOD
hob or canister type filter, heater and lights........just a thin
covering of gravel and watch this tank and lalow it to
cycle........Thenn after carefull consideration and thought and
research, choose a fish and place inthe tank............depending
onthe tank and how its cycled you may be able to g o 2 or so at a
time..........Then build from there............Pick a hardy easy to
care for fish......and don't get carried away with what sales clerks
tell you, expecially anyone that tells you that cory catfish makes
clean clear water.........YOu started with the wrong fish and
overcrowded tanks to begin with and were doomed. Give the fish back or
whatever get a new larger tank setup at least a 10 gal and in that 10
gal you can hold quite a decent variety of guppy, molly, platy, swords
neons and other assorted tetrae, and learn with a bit of leaway
instead of learing on the edge with no margin for any error as you
have been withthose smalltanks, mix of tropicals / goldies, and going
into it alone and after the fact........and above all go into a
petshbop with the knowedge up front ahead of time and do not rely on
what any of them say until youj can differentiate right from wrong
inwqhat they are telling you......as most are dumb in this regard or
smart like a fox in regards to keeping you buying stuff you do not
need. Use your small tank for a quarantine tank so when you buy new
fish place in the QT and observe them and alow them to stay there at
least 2 or 3 weeks to make sure they are ok. Over time add some live
plants etc.....but do it a little at a time until you get up to speed
on the process. Keeping fish is not hard at all, it just has a
regimine that has to be followed and once that is done its a walk inth
park and very relaxing and rewarding. Use this past experieince as a
stepping stone and learning experieince and go from there.

[[email protected]]

The first two months of a new fish are when a fish is most likely to die. the
smaller they are, the more likely there are even lethal genes that will turn on as
they are still developing.

the first couple months is also when the biocycle is not up and running and toxic
water can stress and kill a fish.

from my website below: BUYING A NEW GOLDFISH and then the essentials list
Ingrid

On Mar 10, 11:13*pm, (L u) wrote:
>> He was my favorite, and my son's favorite. I barely had him 2 weeks. He
>> had white dots on him, and the day he died, the underside of him was
>> turning gold. He was healthy when I got him.

BUYING A NEW GOLDFISH
1. Needless to say, do not even look at fish in tanks where there are floating fish.
Fish do die, but floating dead fish indicates the pet shop doesn't care AND the dead
fish is shedding disease in the tank to the other fish. Most Goldfish will eat dead
fish. Do not buy from a tank where you see fish that are drifting with the current
either. Also consider that in most pet shops the water from all tanks is centrally
processed, so anything 1 fish in 1 tank has, they all have.

2. Look for a fish that swims easily. If you have Jo Ann's tape, there are different
"styles" of easy swimming for different fish. A long fin Demekin does not swim in a
straight line like a ryukin does. Healthy fish (small to medium sized ones) spend
most of their time "booking" around, looking for this and that. Look for the one
that is busy, busy, busy.

3. Watch to make sure that none are doing a lot of yawning, a symptom of oxygen
deprivation, perhaps gill problems or current medications being used.

4. Ask the seller if the fish have been medicated, for what, with what and for how
long. This will limit what or if you can use anything without toxing them out at
home. It also gives you an idea of how sick the fish were. Be sure to ask if they
use salt as you will want to salt dip them when you get them home (you will actually
have that all set up before you leave looking for fish!) When you get a fish, do not
allow them to put anything in the bag except water and oxygen. If the trip is long,
the water should just cover the fish in the bottom and the rest filled with oxygen.
Make sure the bag is tight or a fish could get trapped in folds of the plastic.

5. Ask them where the fish came from, country of origin. Ask them when the fish
arrived. If they just arrived, they could still die from stress of shipping, if they
have been their awhile, they are probably resistant or immune to most diseases.

6. Look for a dorsal fin that is straight up. The pectoral fins should be evenly
extended out from the sides (make sure all the fins are there!). Where the fins are
placed varies a bit from fish to fish and pearls and long fins paddle with their
pectorals. There should be two anal fins or one right in the middle. A fish with one
anal fin off to one side means the other anal fin could be growing inside and kill
the fish eventually. All the fins should be even as uneven fins could be an
indication of recent fin rot, or worse, fin rot in progress. Look at the edges of
all the fins for unevenness.
Look for smooth backs on fish, ranchus should be nearly a perfect half circle and the
tail tucked in low, lionheads are a bit longer and the tail is not set as low. But
there should be no odd bumps along the back. Now, look at the fish swimming and see
if the lateral line of the fish is even in the water, no tilting to one side or the
other. Check to see that the fish is nicely rounded. Those whose bodies appear too
small for their heads could have skinny disease and will die. The exception are fish
with hoods (wen) and their heads may be much larger than the body. Last, let them
get the fish in the bag, then check the gills to make sure they are bright red, check
the anal port to make sure there is no redness or oozing and it isn't protruding (a
female that is spawning could have an "outie" a bit, but no redness). Check the
outside of the mouth really closely to make sure there is no redness or white strings
(columnaris) and try to see inside the mouth for the same. Check the eyes for white
flecks (brain flukes). Feel the slime coat, too heavy is parasites, dry is
columnaris. You may have to ask them for a bright light to be able to do a good
physical. Check the fish physical for fuller explanation.

http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/care1.htm#essentials
THE ESSENTIALS FOR KEEPING 2 GOLDFISH
Jo Ann Burke of Dandy Orandas has over the last 20 years found the minimum essential
hardware and care required for keeping goldfish healthy.

1. Read all about the upkeep and expense first
2. Then buy all your equipment, get it set up and cleaned.
3. Buy your fish!!!! Your pet store may be willing to hold the fish you want until
you are ready. ASK!!

THE ESSENTIALS for 2 GOLDFISH
20 GALLON TANK + STAND
FILTER Whisper #3 or Aquamaster 400
HEATER 100 Watt Visitherm
AIR PUMP Double gang
tubing (12feet)
2 big air stones
SIPHON (Python) with nylon sockie over the end
DECHLOR (if you use city water)
FOOD sinking type
SALT crystal solar type salt for water softeners, with no additives
THERMOMETER
TEST KITS for: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, hardness, salt
chlorine/chloramine, (American Pharmaceutical)

The medicine chest for goldfish

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:36:06 -0400, (L u) wrote:
>I remember I emptied fish water from the store's tank into my tank, so
>that could be where he got Ich from.

.... no, it toxes the fish out, but the fish were iced prior to shipment and shipped
cold. that and the stress of shipment is dead bang way to bring on ich in Goldfish.

[[email protected]]

yup. that is why Jo Ann Burke, who sold fancy GF for 30 years came up with the
essentials list for keeping GF. She wanted her customers to have a lot of success
and come back for more and more. go to Puregold and click on essentials list. Ingrid

On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:11:47 -0700 (PDT), ExPat > wrote:
>Keeping fish is EASY but there is a given process about doing it that
>must be followed or your doomed for disaster as you have found out.