Our Cichlids - their short tragic history

[aacool]

We entered the hobby a few weeks back, and have a small 5 gal
aquarium running, apparently well, and decided to up the ante.

Well, we setup a planted aquarium round about christmas, and
added a few tetras, the ammonia spike happened, then subsided.
We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and got some, added
it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
cichlids (papilliochromis altispinosa).

THey turned out to be wonderful fish, and one soon established
himself to be top-boss. Recently, they started rearranging the
plants and rocks.

This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was still high,
though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and added
some salt in the evening.

Unfortunately, the cichlids, and other fishes, were seen to be
gasping at the edges, and one went belly-up:( We thought a lot
about what to do, and finally transferred them to a bucket of
water. As I write, two are dead, and disposed:(, and one is
swimming round the bucket.

I would like some advice as to how this could have been
avoided, and what should we do next. Are the other fishes
(tetras and corys) going to survive? Will the water cycle play
itself out now and when will it be safe to reintroduce fishes?
Whatever happened to the biospira?

In gloom,
aacool
P.S. A pic of the cichlids is attached

[Len]

aacool wrote:


> Well, we setup a planted aquarium round about christmas, and
> added a few tetras, the ammonia spike happened, then subsided.
> We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and got some, added
> it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
> cichlids (papilliochromis altispinosa).
>
> THey turned out to be wonderful fish, and one soon established
> himself to be top-boss. Recently, they started rearranging the
> plants and rocks.
>
> This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was still high,
> though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and added
> some salt in the evening.
>
> Unfortunately, the cichlids, and other fishes, were seen to be
> gasping at the edges, and one went belly-up:( We thought a lot
> about what to do, and finally transferred them to a bucket of
> water. As I write, two are dead, and disposed:(, and one is
> swimming round the bucket.
>
> I would like some advice as to how this could have been
> avoided, and what should we do next. Are the other fishes
> (tetras and corys) going to survive? Will the water cycle play
> itself out now and when will it be safe to reintroduce fishes?
> Whatever happened to the biospira?
>

Too many fish too soon. If I understand your message, this was your
second tank? How big? I would not have added the cichlids until the
ammonia and nitrite were 0 and the nitrate was around 20.

[aacool]

Len > wrote in :

>
>
> aacool wrote:
>
>
>> Well, we setup a planted aquarium round about christmas,
and
>> added a few tetras, the ammonia spike happened, then
subsided.
>> We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and got some,
added
>> it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
>> cichlids (papilliochromis altispinosa).
>>
>> THey turned out to be wonderful fish, and one soon
established
>> himself to be top-boss. Recently, they started rearranging
the
>> plants and rocks.
>>
>> This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was still
high,
>> though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and
added
>> some salt in the evening.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the cichlids, and other fishes, were seen to
be
>> gasping at the edges, and one went belly-up:( We thought a
lot
>> about what to do, and finally transferred them to a bucket
of
>> water. As I write, two are dead, and disposed:(, and one is
>> swimming round the bucket.
>>
>> I would like some advice as to how this could have been
>> avoided, and what should we do next. Are the other fishes
>> (tetras and corys) going to survive? Will the water cycle
play
>> itself out now and when will it be safe to reintroduce
fishes?
>> Whatever happened to the biospira?
>>
>
> Too many fish too soon. If I understand your message, this
was your
> second tank? How big? I would not have added the cichlids
until the
> ammonia and nitrite were 0 and the nitrate was around 20.
>

Well, I thought the biospira would take care of the water
cycle - ref
www.marineland.com - biospira is a live-bacteria that's
"supposed" to
introduce nitrifying bacteria

But, you're right, next time, we wait for the cycle to
complete

[Rick]

"aacool" > wrote in message
...
> Len > wrote in :
>
> >
> >
> > Well, I thought the biospira would take care of the water
> cycle - ref
> www.marineland.com - biospira is a live-bacteria that's
> "supposed" to
> introduce nitrifying bacteria
>
> But, you're right, next time, we wait for the cycle to
> complete


it may introduce nitrifying bacteria which may help cycle the tank a bit
quicker however many doubt these claims. Many of us had the same problem
when we got started and this usually leads to a lot of research which should
be done before not after however like I say many have done the same thing.
Water changes only delay the final cycling process. Start with a couple of
fish or do a fishless cycle with ammonia and don't get discouraged.

Rick

[Amateur]

I'm sorry to hear of your tragic start into cichlid keeping. Bio-spira is a
great product and has saved many people starting new tanks. Where it does add
the bacteria to start a colony, it doesn't perform miracles. Even in a fully
cycled tank, which your tank was not yet fully cycled, adding too many fish at
once can cause ammonia and nitrites to spike. Other things that may have
affected your fish in addition to the deadly ammonia and nitrites may be pH
levels, abrupt changes in water temp, etc. Although you don't mention the size
of your new tank, it sounds like it's a smaller tank. Small tanks are very
difficult to maintain water parameters in. They're easily overloaded and any
changes to the water could drastically change the parameters of the entire tank.
I could top off one of my larger tanks with a gallon of ice cold water from the
tap and the temperature won't drop in the tank more than a degree. Do this in a
ten gallon tank, and you may drop the temperature ten degrees.
To make suggestions to avoid this type of disappointment in the future,
we'll need to know what size the tank, what type of filtration, and heating the
tank has and what the parameters of your water is out of the tap.
I hope you're not too discouraged.
AmateurCichlids
www.amateurcichlids.com

[Dennis]

BioSpira will reduce the cycle time to a few _days_ rather than a few
weeks. The advice to wait is good.
HTH,
Dennis

aacool wrote:
> Len > wrote in :
>
>
>>
>>aacool wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Well, we setup a planted aquarium round about christmas,
>>
> and
>
>>>added a few tetras, the ammonia spike happened, then
>>
> subsided.
>
>>>We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and got some,
>>
> added
>
>>>it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
>>>cichlids (papilliochromis altispinosa).
>>>
>>>THey turned out to be wonderful fish, and one soon
>>
> established
>
>>>himself to be top-boss. Recently, they started rearranging
>>
> the
>
>>>plants and rocks.
>>>
>>>This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was still
>>
> high,
>
>>>though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and
>>
> added
>
>>>some salt in the evening.
>>>
>>>Unfortunately, the cichlids, and other fishes, were seen to
>>
> be
>
>>>gasping at the edges, and one went belly-up:( We thought a
>>
> lot
>
>>>about what to do, and finally transferred them to a bucket
>>
> of
>
>>>water. As I write, two are dead, and disposed:(, and one is
>>>swimming round the bucket.
>>>
>>>I would like some advice as to how this could have been
>>>avoided, and what should we do next. Are the other fishes
>>>(tetras and corys) going to survive? Will the water cycle
>>
> play
>
>>>itself out now and when will it be safe to reintroduce
>>
> fishes?
>
>>>Whatever happened to the biospira?
>>>
>>
>>Too many fish too soon. If I understand your message, this
>
> was your
>
>>second tank? How big? I would not have added the cichlids
>
> until the
>
>>ammonia and nitrite were 0 and the nitrate was around 20.
>>
>
>
> Well, I thought the biospira would take care of the water
> cycle - ref
> www.marineland.com - biospira is a live-bacteria that's
> "supposed" to
> introduce nitrifying bacteria
>
> But, you're right, next time, we wait for the cycle to
> complete

[T]

Welcome to the hobby... Great advice is shared here... Cycling chemicals,
as pointed help a little, but they are the the greatest wonder.. I suggest,
to everyone, get the largest tank you can, water parameters stay very
consistant, and with that thier are no suprises, like a sudden re cycle
stressing out the fish and killing them off.. I am going to suggest what
also has been suggested.. Read as much material you can, as this will help
with your success in keeping, raising and enjoying the hobby. Sometimes this
seems over whelming at first when you start to do some reading ( almost like
getting a biology/science degree ). Fortuanatly now there is a lot of
information out there, and a lot of good informitive web sites.. I like the
thekrib.com ... It has a lot of resources pertaining to fish keeping, tank
cycling etc... Its a larger site and can be boring at times, but
informitive..

Happy fish keeping...

Tim...
"Amateur" > wrote in message
...
> I'm sorry to hear of your tragic start into cichlid keeping. Bio-spira
is a
> great product and has saved many people starting new tanks. Where it does
add
> the bacteria to start a colony, it doesn't perform miracles. Even in a
fully
> cycled tank, which your tank was not yet fully cycled, adding too many
fish at
> once can cause ammonia and nitrites to spike. Other things that may have
> affected your fish in addition to the deadly ammonia and nitrites may be
pH
> levels, abrupt changes in water temp, etc. Although you don't mention the
size
> of your new tank, it sounds like it's a smaller tank. Small tanks are very
> difficult to maintain water parameters in. They're easily overloaded and
any
> changes to the water could drastically change the parameters of the entire
tank.
> I could top off one of my larger tanks with a gallon of ice cold water
from the
> tap and the temperature won't drop in the tank more than a degree. Do this
in a
> ten gallon tank, and you may drop the temperature ten degrees.
> To make suggestions to avoid this type of disappointment in the
future,
> we'll need to know what size the tank, what type of filtration, and
heating the
> tank has and what the parameters of your water is out of the tap.
> I hope you're not too discouraged.
> AmateurCichlids
> www.amateurcichlids.com
>
>

[Ken Thomas]

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:01:22 GMT, aacool > wrote:

>We entered the hobby a few weeks back, and have a small 5 gal
>aquarium running, apparently well, and decided to up the ante.
>
>Well, we setup a planted aquarium round about christmas, and
>added a few tetras, the ammonia spike happened, then subsided.
>We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and got some, added
>it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
>cichlids (papilliochromis altispinosa).
>
>THey turned out to be wonderful fish, and one soon established
>himself to be top-boss. Recently, they started rearranging the
>plants and rocks.
>
>This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was still high,
>though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and added
>some salt in the evening.
>
>Unfortunately, the cichlids, and other fishes, were seen to be
>gasping at the edges, and one went belly-up:( We thought a lot
>about what to do, and finally transferred them to a bucket of
>water. As I write, two are dead, and disposed:(, and one is
>swimming round the bucket.
>
>I would like some advice as to how this could have been
>avoided, and what should we do next. Are the other fishes
>(tetras and corys) going to survive? Will the water cycle play
>itself out now and when will it be safe to reintroduce fishes?
>Whatever happened to the biospira?
>
>In gloom,
>aacool
>P.S. A pic of the cichlids is attached

--------------------------------

OK - so your fish are hurting - ammonia spiking - you're not quite
sure what is happening and you:

>So we rushed out, and got some, added
>it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
>cichlids

And you're asking for advice to prevent this. Look long and hard in
the mirror at stupid. Did you have to have the fish that day? See,
fish are alive - it's not like running out to Wal-Mart and buying a
new toaster on Saturday to make your miserable life a little more
bearable. If your car was belching all kinds of black smoke from the
tailpipe - you would throw some STP oil treatment in because you
heard it took care of engine problems - then go on a 3000 mile trip?
No, cause it's your damn life - you'd take it to a mechanic before you
went anywhere far. Well, I would suggest to you that you show the
same courtesy to other living beings. You can't wait a few days to
get a few fish - then you need to grow up - not have a fish tank.

This isn't a flame. I'm hoping you read this and reach down real
deep, and - maybe start putting the blame where it belongs.

[T]

"Ken Thomas" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:01:22 GMT, aacool > wrote:
>
> >We entered the hobby a few weeks back, and have a small 5 gal
> >aquarium running, apparently well, and decided to up the ante.
> >
> >Well, we setup a planted aquarium round about christmas, and
> >added a few tetras, the ammonia spike happened, then subsided.
> >We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and got some, added
> >it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
> >cichlids (papilliochromis altispinosa).
> >
> >THey turned out to be wonderful fish, and one soon established
> >himself to be top-boss. Recently, they started rearranging the
> >plants and rocks.
> >
> >This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was still high,
> >though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and added
> >some salt in the evening.
> >
> >Unfortunately, the cichlids, and other fishes, were seen to be
> >gasping at the edges, and one went belly-up:( We thought a lot
> >about what to do, and finally transferred them to a bucket of
> >water. As I write, two are dead, and disposed:(, and one is
> >swimming round the bucket.
> >
> >I would like some advice as to how this could have been
> >avoided, and what should we do next. Are the other fishes
> >(tetras and corys) going to survive? Will the water cycle play
> >itself out now and when will it be safe to reintroduce fishes?
> >Whatever happened to the biospira?
> >
> >In gloom,
> >aacool
> >P.S. A pic of the cichlids is attached
>
> --------------------------------
>
> OK - so your fish are hurting - ammonia spiking - you're not quite
> sure what is happening and you:
>
> >So we rushed out, and got some, added
> >it in, and simultaneously added 3 Bolivian Butterfly Ram
> >cichlids
>
> And you're asking for advice to prevent this. Look long and hard in
> the mirror at stupid. Did you have to have the fish that day? See,
> fish are alive - it's not like running out to Wal-Mart and buying a
> new toaster on Saturday to make your miserable life a little more
> bearable. If your car was belching all kinds of black smoke from the
> tailpipe - you would throw some STP oil treatment in because you
> heard it took care of engine problems - then go on a 3000 mile trip?
> No, cause it's your damn life - you'd take it to a mechanic before you
> went anywhere far. Well, I would suggest to you that you show the
> same courtesy to other living beings. You can't wait a few days to
> get a few fish - then you need to grow up - not have a fish tank.
>
> This isn't a flame. I'm hoping you read this and reach down real
> deep, and - maybe start putting the blame where it belongs.

As far as adding the salt, I don't think adding salt during the cycling is
going to help matters much eithier. I believe it makes matters worse if I
remeber correctly. What do some of our local chemists think??

Tim...

[aacool]

"Adam" > wrote in
:

>
> "Frankrkay" > wrote in message
> ...
>> >Ken Thomas wrote;
>> >And you're asking for advice to prevent this. Look long and hard in
>> >the mirror at stupid. Did you have to have the fish that day?
>> >See, fish are alive - it's not like running out to Wal-Mart and
>> >buying a new toaster on Saturday to make your miserable life a
>> >little more bearable. If your car was belching all kinds of black
>> >smoke from the tailpipe - you would throw some STP oil treatment in
>> >because you heard it took care of engine problems - then go on a
>> >3000 mile trip? No, cause it's your damn life - you'd take it to a
>> >mechanic before you went anywhere far. Well, I would suggest to you
>> >that you show the same courtesy to other living beings. You can't
>> >wait a few days to get a few fish - then you need to grow up - not
>> >have a fish tank.
>> >
>> >This isn't a flame. I'm hoping you read this and reach down real
>> >deep, and - maybe start putting the blame where it belongs.
>>
>> A little harsh - after all, they did say ">>We entered the hobby a
>> few
> weeks
>> back........ " and " >>We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and
>> got
> some,
>> added
>> >>it in......"
>> They also said, ">>This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was
> still
>> high,
>> >>though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and added
>> >>some salt in the evening." And the last quote ">>Whatever
>> >>happened to
> the
>> biospira?" The way I read it, is a cry for help, because what they
>> were
> told
>> would work (the biospira), didn't! ..... Frank
>
> A bit harsh? I thought it was totally out of line. I hope the person
> that started this thread is still reading this group after the "help"
> they got. I'm glad I didn't receive that kind of "help" when I posted
> questions in here. If I would have I probably wouldn't be the owner
> of seven happy and healthy tanks today and would have missed out on
> the hours and hours of joy I have gotten out of them. Just my 2
> cents.
>
> Ed
>
>
>

Thanks for standing up for us - you epitomise the true spirit of the
internet and the hobby, unlike some who take pleasure in others gloom.

Our water cycle seems to be near complete - nitrites are zero and ammonia
is 'safe'. We are not planning on introducing any cichlids to this tank,
but stock it with some platys, and our dear betta - it's a 10 gal, in
case I didn't mention.

We will be setting up a new 25 gal and will follow the right guidance.

Oh, and as for Ken, thanks for the misplaced advice - we didnt need
aspersions on our age, value for other life-forms, or preference, or
otherwise for Walmart. Everyone else gave us constructive advice that
will go a long way in fostering our hobby interests.

Cheers and stay tuned.

P.S. Is there a way to post binaries to this group?

[coelacanth]

No. But there is a binaries group carried by many ISPs.
It's "alt.binaries.aquaria".

-coelacanth

"aacool" > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> P.S. Is there a way to post binaries to this group?

[Ken Thomas]

On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 00:15:54 GMT, aacool > wrote:

>"Adam" > wrote in
:
>
>>
>> "Frankrkay" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> >Ken Thomas wrote;
>>> >And you're asking for advice to prevent this. Look long and hard in
>>> >the mirror at stupid. Did you have to have the fish that day?
>>> >See, fish are alive - it's not like running out to Wal-Mart and
>>> >buying a new toaster on Saturday to make your miserable life a
>>> >little more bearable. If your car was belching all kinds of black
>>> >smoke from the tailpipe - you would throw some STP oil treatment in
>>> >because you heard it took care of engine problems - then go on a
>>> >3000 mile trip? No, cause it's your damn life - you'd take it to a
>>> >mechanic before you went anywhere far. Well, I would suggest to you
>>> >that you show the same courtesy to other living beings. You can't
>>> >wait a few days to get a few fish - then you need to grow up - not
>>> >have a fish tank.
>>> >
>>> >This isn't a flame. I'm hoping you read this and reach down real
>>> >deep, and - maybe start putting the blame where it belongs.
>>>
>>> A little harsh - after all, they did say ">>We entered the hobby a
>>> few
>> weeks
>>> back........ " and " >>We read about bio-spira. So we rushed out, and
>>> got
>> some,
>>> added
>>> >>it in......"
>>> They also said, ">>This morning, the nitrite spiked - the ammonia was
>> still
>>> high,
>>> >>though about 1 ppm. We did two water changes today, and added
>>> >>some salt in the evening." And the last quote ">>Whatever
>>> >>happened to
>> the
>>> biospira?" The way I read it, is a cry for help, because what they
>>> were
>> told
>>> would work (the biospira), didn't! ..... Frank
>>
>> A bit harsh? I thought it was totally out of line. I hope the person
>> that started this thread is still reading this group after the "help"
>> they got. I'm glad I didn't receive that kind of "help" when I posted
>> questions in here. If I would have I probably wouldn't be the owner
>> of seven happy and healthy tanks today and would have missed out on
>> the hours and hours of joy I have gotten out of them. Just my 2
>> cents.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>
>Thanks for standing up for us - you epitomise the true spirit of the
>internet and the hobby, unlike some who take pleasure in others gloom.
>
>Our water cycle seems to be near complete - nitrites are zero and ammonia
>is 'safe'. We are not planning on introducing any cichlids to this tank,
>but stock it with some platys, and our dear betta - it's a 10 gal, in
>case I didn't mention.
>
>We will be setting up a new 25 gal and will follow the right guidance.
>
>Oh, and as for Ken, thanks for the misplaced advice - we didnt need
>aspersions on our age, value for other life-forms, or preference, or
>otherwise for Walmart. Everyone else gave us constructive advice that
>will go a long way in fostering our hobby interests.
>
>Cheers and stay tuned.
>
>P.S. Is there a way to post binaries to this group?


I stand by what I said. You knew about cycling. You know that fish
can die during the break-in period of the tank. And you decided to
buy more fish and take a chance. This is a fact: You took a chance
with a life. That's stupid. You couldn't wait a few days to make
sure things were OK before buying more fish. That's impulsive. Not
something an adult does - especially when you're dealing with
something that is alive. I don't care if no one agrees with me.
People here feel like this is some kind of community and we have to
make everyone feel good. Well, I'll risk hurting your feelings. You
say you're an adult, than handle it. And maybe, just maybe, next time
you'll think twice about being flip with something as precious as a
fish.

[Amateur]

"Ken Thomas" > wrote in message
...
> I stand by what I said. You knew about cycling. You know that fish
> can die during the break-in period of the tank. And you decided to
> buy more fish and take a chance. This is a fact: You took a chance
> with a life. That's stupid. You couldn't wait a few days to make
> sure things were OK before buying more fish. That's impulsive. Not
> something an adult does - especially when you're dealing with
> something that is alive. I don't care if no one agrees with me.
> People here feel like this is some kind of community and we have to
> make everyone feel good. Well, I'll risk hurting your feelings. You
> say you're an adult, than handle it. And maybe, just maybe, next time
> you'll think twice about being flip with something as precious as a
> fish.
>

Fish are very precious. And tasty too. I had the pleasure of eating some of the
cichlids we love so much while visiting Lake Tanganyika. The Boulengerochromis,
hands down had to be the best fish I ever tasted.
Amateur

[aacool]

"Amateur" > wrote in
:

> I'm sorry to hear of your tragic start into cichlid keeping.
> Bio-spira is a
> great product and has saved many people starting new tanks. Where it
> does add the bacteria to start a colony, it doesn't perform miracles.
> Even in a fully cycled tank, which your tank was not yet fully cycled,
> adding too many fish at once can cause ammonia and nitrites to spike.
> Other things that may have affected your fish in addition to the
> deadly ammonia and nitrites may be pH levels, abrupt changes in water
> temp, etc. Although you don't mention the size of your new tank, it
> sounds like it's a smaller tank. Small tanks are very difficult to
> maintain water parameters in. They're easily overloaded and any
> changes to the water could drastically change the parameters of the
> entire tank. I could top off one of my larger tanks with a gallon of
> ice cold water from the tap and the temperature won't drop in the tank
> more than a degree. Do this in a ten gallon tank, and you may drop the
> temperature ten degrees.
> To make suggestions to avoid this type of disappointment in the
> future,
> we'll need to know what size the tank, what type of filtration, and
> heating the tank has and what the parameters of your water is out of
> the tap. I hope you're not too discouraged.
> AmateurCichlids
> www.amateurcichlids.com
>
>

We're not discouraged - as a matter of fact, we're planning on starting a
new 25g tank (the other one is 10g) and ONCE the cycle is complete,
having a cichlids-only tank. Will ask your advice on that later.

As for the 10g - it has a Whisper filter, the regular clip-on heater. The
water is rather hard, slightly acidic. There are plants, and a few
tetras. We moved our betta in now that the cycle is complete.

Thanks

[Jeff Dantzler]

In rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids T > wrote:

> "Ken Thomas" > wrote in message

> As far as adding the salt, I don't think adding salt during the cycling is
> going to help matters much eithier. I believe it makes matters worse if I
> remeber correctly. What do some of our local chemists think??

Adding salt does nothing to help during cycling. It has been used
to ease nitrite poisoning. Salt is beneficvial for helping wounds
heal and that's about it. Cichlids are freshwater fish after all.
Even the "hard" water rift lakes have very little NaCl in them.

For me, a handfull of gravel or some filter media from an established
tank is practical and cheaper than those "tank starters".

Rams are notorious for being picky about water conditions and are
a very poor choice for a "cycling" tank. Frankly so are tetras.
Fish in the minnow/rasboar/danio family are good because they are
quite resilient.

Fishless cycling works great, too.

Use test kits to verify zero detectable ammonia and nitrite before
adding your prized speciens.

Read about the cichlids you consider getting before you get them.

Start at www.cichlidae.com

We've all killed fish at some point or another (usually the
beginning.) By learning we become better fishkeepers.

Cheers--Jeff Dantzler

[Damaclese]

ok first off ken you cant say you have never lost a fish when you were a
n00b< new to the hobby> so relax ive done the same thing and i wait and run
my tank for about 1 month doing regular water changes and no fish in it.
Buddy relax people make mistakes and dont go preaching about life to me
thanks i shot my first deer when i was 5 BECAUSE WE NEEDED FOOD!

at any rate i jumped from a 15g to a 55g then a big jump up to 155g the best
things i can say is 1 - run your tank for 2 weeks with just water in it
takes care of impurities and residues that may be in tanks filter housings
pre packaged filter media and the like

2 - buy some feeder or target fish the urinate alot and kick in a cycle buy
a pleco at this time i had one last me through alot of hardships and there
near to indestructible as you can get.. dropped mine on floor abandoned in
bottom of a tank when i moved for about 5 days in 2 inches of water and
gravell and had survived through several tank moves..
let these guys get in there and die off .there not meant to last long and
are very baddly inbread..yes frank these guys are expendible like it or lump
it... after a week or 2 check levels maybe add a plant or 2 .. i also
noticed you do not have an air pump these can be fish savers go get one
please you never know when more o2 will help out a spike or problem
3- test levels every day before doing an inital population dont do more than
4-6 fish cause you never know it took 3 tries to get my 155 gallon going and
i have had a hell of a time with it for the first year.. and most of all
listen to the info your getting I MAY NOT BE THE BEST ADVICE alot of people
on here have a lot more experience than i do realize this and learn from it
and use your own common sense and i think you will do fine

"Amateur" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Ken Thomas" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I stand by what I said. You knew about cycling. You know that fish
> > can die during the break-in period of the tank. And you decided to
> > buy more fish and take a chance. This is a fact: You took a chance
> > with a life. That's stupid. You couldn't wait a few days to make
> > sure things were OK before buying more fish. That's impulsive. Not
> > something an adult does - especially when you're dealing with
> > something that is alive. I don't care if no one agrees with me.
> > People here feel like this is some kind of community and we have to
> > make everyone feel good. Well, I'll risk hurting your feelings. You
> > say you're an adult, than handle it. And maybe, just maybe, next time
> > you'll think twice about being flip with something as precious as a
> > fish.
> >
>
> Fish are very precious. And tasty too. I had the pleasure of eating some
of the
> cichlids we love so much while visiting Lake Tanganyika. The
Boulengerochromis,
> hands down had to be the best fish I ever tasted.
> Amateur
>
>

[aacool]

"Damaclese" > wrote in
:

>
>
> ok first off ken you cant say you have never lost a fish when you
> were a n00b< new to the hobby> so relax ive done the same thing and i
> wait and run my tank for about 1 month doing regular water changes and
> no fish in it. Buddy relax people make mistakes and dont go preaching
> about life to me thanks i shot my first deer when i was 5 BECAUSE WE
> NEEDED FOOD!
>
> at any rate i jumped from a 15g to a 55g then a big jump up to 155g
> the best things i can say is 1 - run your tank for 2 weeks with just
> water in it takes care of impurities and residues that may be in tanks
> filter housings pre packaged filter media and the like
>
> 2 - buy some feeder or target fish the urinate alot and kick in a
> cycle buy a pleco at this time i had one last me through alot of
> hardships and there near to indestructible as you can get.. dropped
> mine on floor abandoned in bottom of a tank when i moved for about 5
> days in 2 inches of water and gravell and had survived through several
> tank moves.. let these guys get in there and die off .there not meant
> to last long and are very baddly inbread..yes frank these guys are
> expendible like it or lump it... after a week or 2 check levels maybe
> add a plant or 2 .. i also noticed you do not have an air pump these
> can be fish savers go get one please you never know when more o2 will
> help out a spike or problem 3- test levels every day before doing an
> inital population dont do more than 4-6 fish cause you never know it
> took 3 tries to get my 155 gallon going and i have had a hell of a
> time with it for the first year.. and most of all listen to the info
> your getting I MAY NOT BE THE BEST ADVICE alot of people on here have
> a lot more experience than i do realize this and learn from it and use
> your own common sense and i think you will do fine
>
> "Amateur" > wrote in message
> om...
>>
>> "Ken Thomas" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I stand by what I said. You knew about cycling. You know that
>> > fish can die during the break-in period of the tank. And you
>> > decided to buy more fish and take a chance. This is a fact: You
>> > took a chance with a life. That's stupid. You couldn't wait a few
>> > days to make sure things were OK before buying more fish. That's
>> > impulsive. Not something an adult does - especially when you're
>> > dealing with something that is alive. I don't care if no one
>> > agrees with me. People here feel like this is some kind of
>> > community and we have to make everyone feel good. Well, I'll risk
>> > hurting your feelings. You say you're an adult, than handle it.
>> > And maybe, just maybe, next time you'll think twice about being
>> > flip with something as precious as a fish.
>> >
>>
>> Fish are very precious. And tasty too. I had the pleasure of eating
>> some
> of the
>> cichlids we love so much while visiting Lake Tanganyika. The
> Boulengerochromis,
>> hands down had to be the best fish I ever tasted.
>> Amateur
>>
>>
>
>
>

Thanks - that was very sound advice and we will follow it, especially
taking the tips of SANE people.

As a matter of fact, we have added an airstone and the fishes love it. We
are finding the 10g is almost through it's cycle and are going to start a
25g for the additional water stability - we will follow the advice
mentioned by all.

[Damaclese]

also you may want to syphon off 2 gals of water from the 10 to help the 25
"Damaclese" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> ok first off ken you cant say you have never lost a fish when you were a
> n00b< new to the hobby> so relax ive done the same thing and i wait and
run
> my tank for about 1 month doing regular water changes and no fish in it.
> Buddy relax people make mistakes and dont go preaching about life to me
> thanks i shot my first deer when i was 5 BECAUSE WE NEEDED FOOD!
>
> at any rate i jumped from a 15g to a 55g then a big jump up to 155g the
best
> things i can say is 1 - run your tank for 2 weeks with just water in it
> takes care of impurities and residues that may be in tanks filter housings
> pre packaged filter media and the like
>
> 2 - buy some feeder or target fish the urinate alot and kick in a cycle
buy
> a pleco at this time i had one last me through alot of hardships and there
> near to indestructible as you can get.. dropped mine on floor abandoned in
> bottom of a tank when i moved for about 5 days in 2 inches of water and
> gravell and had survived through several tank moves..
> let these guys get in there and die off .there not meant to last long and
> are very baddly inbread..yes frank these guys are expendible like it or
lump
> it... after a week or 2 check levels maybe add a plant or 2 .. i also
> noticed you do not have an air pump these can be fish savers go get one
> please you never know when more o2 will help out a spike or problem
> 3- test levels every day before doing an inital population dont do more
than
> 4-6 fish cause you never know it took 3 tries to get my 155 gallon going
and
> i have had a hell of a time with it for the first year.. and most of all
> listen to the info your getting I MAY NOT BE THE BEST ADVICE alot of
people
> on here have a lot more experience than i do realize this and learn from
it
> and use your own common sense and i think you will do fine
>
> "Amateur" > wrote in message
> om...
> >
> > "Ken Thomas" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I stand by what I said. You knew about cycling. You know that fish
> > > can die during the break-in period of the tank. And you decided to
> > > buy more fish and take a chance. This is a fact: You took a chance
> > > with a life. That's stupid. You couldn't wait a few days to make
> > > sure things were OK before buying more fish. That's impulsive. Not
> > > something an adult does - especially when you're dealing with
> > > something that is alive. I don't care if no one agrees with me.
> > > People here feel like this is some kind of community and we have to
> > > make everyone feel good. Well, I'll risk hurting your feelings. You
> > > say you're an adult, than handle it. And maybe, just maybe, next time
> > > you'll think twice about being flip with something as precious as a
> > > fish.
> > >
> >
> > Fish are very precious. And tasty too. I had the pleasure of eating some
> of the
> > cichlids we love so much while visiting Lake Tanganyika. The
> Boulengerochromis,
> > hands down had to be the best fish I ever tasted.
> > Amateur
> >
> >
>
>