Getting Oscar(s)

[Laura Dawson]

I have always wanted an Oscar or oscars and now I have a 55 gallon
tank. I think I need special filtration don't I? Also how many can I
keep in a tank that size, I know they can get quite big. Any info is
greatly appreciated.

Laura
(Milwaukee)

[Keith J.]

A 90 gallon is usually big enough for one male/female pair at adult size. If
you have two male adults or two female adults in a 90 gallon, the stronger
one will usually kill the weaker.

An oscar I kept grew to 14 inches long in a 55 gallon tank, and was
uncomfortably crowded, even as the only fish in the tank. He could barely
turn around. 55 gallons for an adult Oscar really isn't adequate, in my
opinion.

Oscars also produce a LOT of waste, so I recommend at least two large power
filters. On the 55 I had two Penguin 330's , plus an undergravel filter.
Oscars can move baseball-sized rocks , so they can easily re-arrange any
aquascaping you do.

Keith J.

"Laura Dawson" > wrote in message
om...
> I have always wanted an Oscar or oscars and now I have a 55 gallon
> tank. I think I need special filtration don't I? Also how many can I
> keep in a tank that size, I know they can get quite big. Any info is
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Laura
> (Milwaukee)

[AfricanCichlid Addict]

i have several large tanks and my favorite is my 120 gallon oscar tank.
i have five large oscars and they all get along great. i got them all
when they were small and they grew up together (10-12 inches).
water quality is something i strive for and for this tank i have 3
aquaclear 500's a fluval 404 with a 25 watt uv sterilizer and an
undergravel filter with 2 large power heads. the water looks clean
enough to drink and the fish are very healthy and happy. they love
attention.....being touched and they will jump out of the water for
food. just a lot of fun to have.
i'm not saying you need all this filtration but it works for me.....
randy

[Laura Dawson]

Thanks to both of you for your input. From what you have said and
other people I've talked to I think I will just admire the Oscars when
I visit my LFS (for now anyway).

Laura

[Mark Stone]

"Keith J." > wrote in message >...
> A 90 gallon is usually big enough for one male/female pair at adult size. If
> you have two male adults or two female adults in a 90 gallon, the stronger
> one will usually kill the weaker.

I'm curious where you got this information. No one who has kept or
studied Oscars that I know (or know of) has ever observed this -- On
the contrary, a pair of Oscars in a 90, regardless of their gender,
are normally quite calm, unless water conditions are unbearable. I can
see that what you're describing is possible, because Oscars from
specimen to specimen can be different as night and day; but to say
that the strong Oscar will *usually* kill the weaker Oscar I think is
a little naive.


> An oscar I kept grew to 14 inches long in a 55 gallon tank, and was
> uncomfortably crowded, even as the only fish in the tank. He could barely
> turn around. 55 gallons for an adult Oscar really isn't adequate, in my
> opinion.
>
> Oscars also produce a LOT of waste, so I recommend at least two large power
> filters. On the 55 I had two Penguin 330's , plus an undergravel filter.
> Oscars can move baseball-sized rocks , so they can easily re-arrange any
> aquascaping you do.
> Keith J.

I'm curious again -- why are you suggesting UGF if an Oscar can move
"baseball-ized rocks"? Generally we avoid UGF systems with Cichlid
species that dig, because of the possibility that 1.) Holes created in
the gravel allow water to bypass the beneficial bacteria, and 2.)
Aggressive digging by large Cichlids (like Oscars) can disturb the UGF
plates.

You seem to have gone out of your way to discourage Laura Dawson from
getting Oscars. What's the deal?

--Curious Mark


Mark Stone tractorlegs at msn dot kom
OSCAR Lovers! http://www.geocities.com/cichlidiot_2000/oscar.html
The ".Edu" meens i are smart.



>
> "Laura Dawson" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I have always wanted an Oscar or oscars and now I have a 55 gallon
> > tank. I think I need special filtration don't I? Also how many can I
> > keep in a tank that size, I know they can get quite big. Any info is
> > greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Laura
> > (Milwaukee)

[Keith J.]

Just stating my experience. I had two in a 90 gallon, both males. The larger
one eventually killed the slightly smaller male. Granted, this won't happen
every time. Individual temperments vary quite a bit.

Keith J.

"Mark Stone" > wrote in message
om...
> "Keith J." > wrote in
message >...
> > A 90 gallon is usually big enough for one male/female pair at adult
size. If
> > you have two male adults or two female adults in a 90 gallon, the
stronger
> > one will usually kill the weaker.
>
> I'm curious where you got this information. No one who has kept or
> studied Oscars that I know (or know of) has ever observed this -- On
> the contrary, a pair of Oscars in a 90, regardless of their gender,
> are normally quite calm, unless water conditions are unbearable. I can
> see that what you're describing is possible, because Oscars from
> specimen to specimen can be different as night and day; but to say
> that the strong Oscar will *usually* kill the weaker Oscar I think is
> a little naive.
>
)

[Mark Stone]

"Keith J." > wrote in message >...

> Just stating my experience. I had two in a 90 gallon, both males. The larger
> one eventually killed the slightly smaller male. Granted, this won't happen
> every time. Individual temperments vary quite a bit.

Was the smaller of the two sick? Occasionally (as in many species) a
larger Oscar will kill a weaker or sick fish. I was concerned when you
had told the original poster that if two males are in a 90, the larger
one will "usually" kill the smaller one, which is certainly not the
case. But as you say, individual temperments among Oscars is variant.

I must say, though, that it's refreshing to see that you don't
correspond to the "You can't tell the sex of an Oscar" internet
newsgroup bandwagon! This is the second most believed and propogated
Newsgroup fib -- the number one myth, is, of course, the newsgroup
weekly water change myth. (You've heard it, I'm sure -- "If you don't
do a partial water change weekly, all your fish will die"--)

--Mark

[Keith J.]

"Mark Stone" > wrote in message
om...
> "Keith J." > wrote in
message >...
>

> I must say, though, that it's refreshing to see that you don't
> correspond to the "You can't tell the sex of an Oscar" internet
> newsgroup bandwagon! This is the second most believed and propogated
> Newsgroup fib -- the number one myth, is, of course, the newsgroup
> weekly water change myth. (You've heard it, I'm sure -- "If you don't
> do a partial water change weekly, all your fish will die"--)
>
> --Mark

You can't be CERTAIN of an Oscar's sex without a blood test or witnessing
spawning, but experienced keepers notice characteristics that are more
typical of one sex vs. the other. Not a certainty, but experts can look and
be fairly sure.

It's similar to the water change myth. Weekly water changes are not usually
required, but they do improve the chances of fish staying healthy. A weekly
water change isn't really necessary for a reasonably stocked tank, but it
can help.

A third major aquarium myth is " you have to use CO2 injection to have
healthy plants." I've never used CO2 in my current tanks. My largest sword
plant is a little over 3 feet across and 2 feet tall, with about 10 baby
plants growing on it. I grew a 40 gallon hair grass "forest" from 3 small
rhizomes, and I have Java Ferns nearly the size of a basketball.

Keith

[Keith J.]

"Mark Stone" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm curious again -- why are you suggesting UGF if an Oscar can move
> "baseball-ized rocks"? Generally we avoid UGF systems with Cichlid
> species that dig, because of the possibility that 1.) Holes created in
> the gravel allow water to bypass the beneficial bacteria, and 2.)
> Aggressive digging by large Cichlids (like Oscars) can disturb the UGF
> plates.

One major point I didn't mention , you can successfully use a UGF with large
cichlids if you put a plastic grate on top of the plates, and weigh the
grate down with large rocks. The grating I use is called "egg crate" or
"light diffusing grid" , and is sold in hardware stores for ceiling lights.
It's relatively cheap, about $5us for a 2x4 foot piece. It's can be cut with
a haksaw, or can be quickly "cut" by breaking sections off with a hammer or
other heavy tool.

You put the UGF plates on the bottom, half the gravel over the UGF plates,
the plastic grating next, the large rocks on top of the grate, and then add
the last of the gravel.

The fish have gravel they can dig in and move around, but they won't be able
to expose the plates or disturb the lower gravel layer. Bare bottomed tanks
are easier to clean, but this setup looks more "natural".

Keith
p.s. I didn't mean to prevent Laura from getting Oscars, I just wanted to
make sure she knew the challenges involved before she bought them.

[ThangFish]

Keith J. wrote:
> "Mark Stone" > wrote in message
> om...
>> "Keith J." > wrote
>> in
> message >...
>>
>
>> I must say, though, that it's refreshing to see that you don't
>> correspond to the "You can't tell the sex of an Oscar" internet
>> newsgroup bandwagon! This is the second most believed and propogated
>> Newsgroup fib -- the number one myth, is, of course, the newsgroup
>> weekly water change myth. (You've heard it, I'm sure -- "If you don't
>> do a partial water change weekly, all your fish will die"--)
>>
>> --Mark
>
> You can't be CERTAIN of an Oscar's sex without a blood test or
> witnessing spawning, but experienced keepers notice characteristics
> that are more typical of one sex vs. the other. Not a certainty, but
> experts can look and be fairly sure.
>
> It's similar to the water change myth. Weekly water changes are not
> usually required, but they do improve the chances of fish staying
> healthy. A weekly water change isn't really necessary for a
> reasonably stocked tank, but it can help.
>
> A third major aquarium myth is " you have to use CO2 injection to have
> healthy plants." I've never used CO2 in my current tanks. My largest
> sword plant is a little over 3 feet across and 2 feet tall, with
> about 10 baby plants growing on it. I grew a 40 gallon hair grass
> "forest" from 3 small rhizomes, and I have Java Ferns nearly the size
> of a basketball.
>
> Keith


Keith,
Would you care to elaborate on your setup?
Lighting, substrate, bio-load, etc...

I want to plant some tanks (55g-75g,) and will not be using Co2.

thanks

TF

Put my handle in front of the domain name to email.

[Keith J.]

> > A third major aquarium myth is " you have to use CO2 injection to have
> > healthy plants." I've never used CO2 in my current tanks. My largest
> > sword plant is a little over 3 feet across and 2 feet tall, with
> > about 10 baby plants growing on it. I grew a 40 gallon hair grass
> > "forest" from 3 small rhizomes, and I have Java Ferns nearly the size
> > of a basketball.
> >
> > Keith
>
>
> Keith,
> Would you care to elaborate on your setup?
> Lighting, substrate, bio-load, etc...
>
> I want to plant some tanks (55g-75g,) and will not be using Co2.
>
> thanks
>
> TF

My 40 breeder tank is balanced the best.
The fish : 2 blue rams , 2 angels, 9 glowlight tetras , 12 black neon
tetras, 4 cory cats, 1 bristlenose, 6 otocinclus

The plants : Eleocharis sp. hair grass, Microsorium sp. java fern ,
Hygrophila difformis "wisteria" , Echinodrus tenellus "chain swords",
Nomaphila sp. "giant hygro"

Lighting: 3x 20 watt fluorescent , also near a west window
Other equip : 200 watt heater , penguin 170 filter, ugf meant for a 10
gallon tank driven by one airstone

Substrate : sloping, 4 to 7 cm of small gravel, avg. diameter 4-6 mm , mixed
with laterite. The UGF is under the outflow from the power filter, with java
fern on top and has the thickest gravel on it. It slopes down toward the
opposite front corner. There are a few large rocks under the filter outflow,
to reduce gravel distrubance during water changes. There are also a few
pieces of driftwood under the filter outlet to break up the current.

The brand of fertilizer you use doesn't matter much, as long as they are
meant for aquaria and don't contain much nitrogen or phosphorus. The
wisteria and giant hygro grow so fast you have to trim them at least
monthly. They use up a lot of nitrogen compounds, so algae is minimal.

I only use one airstone and a smaller than recommended filter to reduce
surface agitation. This keeps some CO2 from the fish in the water, while
being enough aeration to keep the fish healthy. It's a balancing act , if
you have too much surface movement the CO2 dissipates into the air, if you
have too little the fish have difficulty breathing. This would be more
difficult to balance if you have a higher fish load.

Other tips, most plants grow best if the water pH is 6.8 or less, with a
total water hardness below 80 ppm. Be careful, because if the hardness is
too low, you risk pH crash.

Plants aren't really my specialty. Some of the people in the
rec.aquaria.plants group can probably help you a lot more.

Keith J.

[ThangFish]

Keith J. wrote:

<large snip>

> Plants aren't really my specialty. Some of the people in the
> rec.aquaria.plants group can probably help you a lot more.
>
> Keith J.


I lurk there too...
Thanks for the reply.
--
TF

Put my handle in front of the domain name to email.

[Mark Stone]

"Keith J." > wrote in message >...
> "Mark Stone" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I'm curious again -- why are you suggesting UGF if an Oscar can move
> > "baseball-ized rocks"? Generally we avoid UGF systems with Cichlid
> > species that dig, because of the possibility that 1.) Holes created in
> > the gravel allow water to bypass the beneficial bacteria, and 2.)
> > Aggressive digging by large Cichlids (like Oscars) can disturb the UGF
> > plates.
>
> One major point I didn't mention , you can successfully use a UGF with large
> cichlids if you put a plastic grate on top of the plates, and weigh the
> grate down with large rocks. The grating I use is called "egg crate" or
> "light diffusing grid" , and is sold in hardware stores for ceiling lights.
> It's relatively cheap, about $5us for a 2x4 foot piece. It's can be cut with
> a haksaw, or can be quickly "cut" by breaking sections off with a hammer or
> other heavy tool.
>
> You put the UGF plates on the bottom, half the gravel over the UGF plates,
> the plastic grating next, the large rocks on top of the grate, and then add
> the last of the gravel.
>
> The fish have gravel they can dig in and move around, but they won't be able
> to expose the plates or disturb the lower gravel layer. Bare bottomed tanks
> are easier to clean, but this setup looks more "natural".

Good idea. --Mark

[Mark Stone]

"Keith J." > wrote in message >...

> You can't be CERTAIN of an Oscar's sex without a blood test or witnessing
> spawning, but experienced keepers notice characteristics that are more
> typical of one sex vs. the other. Not a certainty, but experts can look and
> be fairly sure.

Sure you can be certain, but only under certain strict guidelines. As
you know, Oscars bear the "scars" of their lifetime more visibly than
other species. For example, an Oscar that was involved in a terrible
fight as a juvi will show physical deformities from that fight his
whole life. Additionally, Oscars that are mistreated or underfed will
always look smaller and weaker, even when fully recovered from the
abuse. It's for this reason that it becomes *very* difficult to gender
Oscars, because many of the physical clues are not dependable.

However, if you *raise* a pair or more of Oscars, and you are certain
that they have approximately the same disease/food/water
condition/etc. history, then the sexes always follow general Cichlid
guidelines: Males are larger and more colorful, have more "flowing"
fins, have a subtle point at the tip of the second dorsal, etc. But, a
male that has been abused will be smaller, less colorful, etc. -- so
unless you know the history of the Oscars you are attempting to sex,
it's impossible.

Therefore, if I go to someone's home to look at a group of Oscars, and
have never seen them before, then sexing them would be only a guess.
However, if I buy six juvi's at the LFS and raise them together to
adulthood, then I can tell the boys from the girls at a glance.

One other thing: Amazon Basin males sometimes have a line of eyespots
that extend from the Caudal eyespot up under the dorsal fin. Not all
males bear this trait, but only males do. However, this has not been
observed in aquarium or farm bred Oscars.

--Mark

[Keith J.]

"Mark Stone" > wrote in message
om...
> "Keith J." > wrote in
message news:<i1PQb.7732

> > The fish have gravel they can dig in and move around, but they won't be
able
> > to expose the plates or disturb the lower gravel layer. Bare bottomed
tanks
> > are easier to clean, but this setup looks more "natural".
>
> Good idea. --Mark

Thanks , I got this idea from a post in this group about 6 or 7 years ago.
Cleaning is more difficult, but it works.
Keith J.