Rosie Barb's?? Siamese Algae Eater?

[Doug]

Hi group,

I have 2 fish that I recently bought. The guy at my lfs I don't think
knows very much about his stock, at least not in detail. He sold me these
fish (
http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/DZappy/?action=view&current=IMG_0114.jpg )
and said they are "Rosie Barb's". I seen some other in another fish store
being sold as "Rosie Barb's", and they don't look anything like these.
What are they please? Also, recently, the one in the picture looks
deformed in his back end like his spine is bent. What could cause this?

My PH is around 7.2 and Nitrate and Nitrite levels are nominal and I do
weekly water changes of about 20 to 30% with a gravel vac.

Also, recently, I have developed a "Black Brush Algae" problem, so I
researched a little and seen that the "Siamese Algae Eaters" are one of very
few that will eat this. Once again, I returned to my local fish store,
(after calling every place else in the city) to try to find a pair of these.
The guy once again said that he had "Chinese" one's but no Siamese ones. I
went and looked in his tank of "Chinese Algae Eater's" and seen these little
guys. (
http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/DZappy/?action=view&current=IMG_0116.jpg )
.. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I would swear this is a "Siamese Algae
Eater" by everything that I've read. So I bought 2 for my 55 Gallon Tank.
The picture isn't very good, but the little guys are very very small and
won't hold still very long.

I just wanna make sure I got the right ones, cause I want them to do the
job that I got them for, and not to get fat, lazy and aggressive.

Thanks in advance for any insight into this guys!

Doug

[Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]]

"Doug" > wrote in
:

> I have 2 fish that I recently bought. The guy at my lfs I don't
> think knows very much about his stock, at least not in detail. He
> sold me these fish (
> http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/DZappy/?action=view&current=IM
> G_0114.jpg ) and said they are "Rosie Barb's".

Golden Barbs. Schooling fish, and 2 isn't a school. Get at least 3 more
unless your tank is already overstocked. The deformed one might have been
like that since it was hatched, or it might have tuberculosis which can do
that or even worse things to a spine of a fish. It looks also skinny, and
so I vote for tuberculosis. Might be good idea to put it down.

> one's but no Siamese ones. I went and looked in his tank of "Chinese
> Algae Eater's" and seen these little guys. (
> http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/DZappy/?action=view&current=IM
> G_0116.jpg ) . Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I would swear this is
> a "Siamese Algae Eater" by everything that I've read.

Yes, looks like Siamese Algae Eater and if it isn't, it is most likely one
of its relatives. Definitely not a Chinese AE. No sucker mouth, and this
little guy is free swimming unlike CAEs, which nearly always just hang on
bottom or other surfaces.

SAEs are schooling too, but there is no way you could keep a school of
adult ones in 55 gallons. So keep just these two.

Liisa

[Doug]

Thank you Lisa for the prompt reply! My suspicions were valid then. It's
good to know exactly what's in my tank...

TYA,

Doug


"Liisa Sarakontu" > wrote in message
16...
> "Doug" > wrote in
> :
>
>> I have 2 fish that I recently bought. The guy at my lfs I don't
>> think knows very much about his stock, at least not in detail. He
>> sold me these fish (
>> http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/DZappy/?action=view&current=IMG_0114.jpg )
>> and said they are "Rosie Barb's".
>
> Golden Barbs. Schooling fish, and 2 isn't a school. Get at least 3 more
> unless your tank is already overstocked. The deformed one might have been
> like that since it was hatched, or it might have tuberculosis which can do
> that or even worse things to a spine of a fish. It looks also skinny, and
> so I vote for tuberculosis. Might be good idea to put it down.
>
>> one's but no Siamese ones. I went and looked in his tank of "Chinese
>> Algae Eater's" and seen these little guys. (
>> http://s731.photobucket.com/albums/ww320/DZappy/?action=view&current=IMG_0116.jpg )
>> . Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I would swear this is
>> a "Siamese Algae Eater" by everything that I've read.
>
> Yes, looks like Siamese Algae Eater and if it isn't, it is most likely one
> of its relatives. Definitely not a Chinese AE. No sucker mouth, and this
> little guy is free swimming unlike CAEs, which nearly always just hang on
> bottom or other surfaces.
>
> SAEs are schooling too, but there is no way you could keep a school of
> adult ones in 55 gallons. So keep just these two.
>
> Liisa

[John Smith[_4_]]

On Dec 8, 9:12*am, Tynk > wrote:
> On Dec 2, 11:21*pm, Liisa Sarakontu > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes, looks like Siamese Algae Eater and if it isn't, it is most likely one
> > of its relatives. Definitely not a Chinese AE. No sucker mouth, and this
> > little guy is free swimming unlike CAEs, which nearly always just hang on
> > bottom or other surfaces.
>
> > SAEs are schooling too, but there is no way you could keep a school of
> > adult ones in 55 gallons. So keep just these two.
>
> > Liisa
>
> That's *not* a SAE. It's a False SAE. You can easily see that the
> black bar running across their body doesn't go through to the end of
> the tail...it stops at the base of the tail....a huge red flag that
> it's a false SAE.
> You can't see the top coloring / pattern along the dorsal ridge, but
> you can see the tail coloring is wrong.
> Take it back. They sold you the wrong fish, and don't know how to tell
> the difference between them.
> Then, while you're going, take that barb with the bent spine back too.
> It could be as simple as a *nutritional deficiency, or as bad as fish
> TB.
> If it's TB, bad news. It's highly contagious, no cure, and now it's in
> your tank.
> The only thing that can kill it is bleach.
> Any fish exposed to a fish with TB is infected. It can lie dormant in
> the fish (not active TB and no symptoms) for many years and then pop
> up at any time.
> Hopefully it's not piscene *TB, but you do need to be aware of the
> real possibility that it is.
> Just so you know, fish TB is not human TB. However, fish TB *IS*
> transferable to humans. It shows up as a rash that won't go away.

See just like I said flush those slimey things.................find a
puppy or kitty to cuddle up with not a cold blooded fish. May your
aquarium, get a cark in its bottom corner on Christmas eve and you
wake up to a flooded room and dired up dead "useless" sick fish!

[Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]]

Tynk > wrote in
:

> That's *not* a SAE. It's a False SAE. You can easily see that the
> black bar running across their body doesn't go through to the end of
> the tail...it stops at the base of the tail....a huge red flag that
> it's a false SAE.

Actually, you can't "easily" see that from that photo. This fish is very
young, and baby SAEs have just a very faint black stripe on tail fin,
sometimes nearly no stripe. But you can see that the stripe goes a little
way to the tail fin, whereas False SAEs have a stripe which doesn't go at
all to the tail fin.

> You can't see the top coloring / pattern along the dorsal ridge,

I can see that the back is as pale as belly. False SAEs have darker back
and a pale stripe over that black side stripe.

And look at the head: very narrow, pointy snout. False SAEs and other Garra
species have more blunt head.

> Take it back. They sold you the wrong fish, and don't know how to tell
> the difference between them.

False SAE aka Garra cambodgiensis is a very nice fish and it eats some
algae. It is not a schooling fish but a loner when adult, but it doesn't
attack other fish species (except SAEs and other Garras). No reason to take
such a fish back. Besides, I'd still say that this is a real SAE and not a
false one.

Liisa

[Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]]

Tynk > wrote in
:

> Did you enlarge it?

Nope.

> I lumped flying foxes in with false siamese algae eaters.

FF is a much closer relative to SAE than False SAE is, and so when trying
to figure out who is who, it is best not to clump them all.

> I was thinking of what a flying fox looks like, and how they're often
> mistaken for SAE when I posted.

Flying Foxes are indeed mistaken with SAEs, but they have far more
prominent black stripe through tail fin and they are colourful with a
golden (and not just "pale") stripe over the black and brown (and not just
"darker") back. Colourful fins, too and not "totally transparent, sometimes
just slightly milky" like SAE or "very slight yellow/grey pattern on
dorsal" like False SAE. FF is easy to tell apart from SAE.

> But the posted pic looks to me more like a flying fox than a true SAE.
> http://www.dkimages.com/discover/DKIMAGES/Discover/Home/Animals/Fish/Bo
> ny-Fish/Orders/Minnows-Carp-and-Relatives/Algae-Eaters/Siamese-Flying-F
> ox/Siamese-Flying-Fox-1.html

That's a false SAE. You see dark back, pale stripe over black, no stripe
through tail fin although this fish is most likely adult and a faint dark
pattern on the bottom part of dorsal fin. Certainly not FF or SAE. Besides,
this page claims that the sci name of SAE is "Epalzeorhynchus siamensis".
Nope, SAE is Crossocheilus siamensis and FF is Epalzeorhynchus kalopterus.

Liisa

[John Smith[_4_]]

On Dec 9, 12:51*pm, Tynk > wrote:
> On Dec 9, 10:48*am, John Smith > wrote:
> Silly subject change by the way.
> These groups were removed.
> , alt.usenet.kooks, rec.ponds, alt.aquaria, alt.support.boy-lovers
>
> > Grab the pop corn nachos and cold beers folks were in for a cat
> > fight.....................shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,round one is about to
> > begin. Is TYNK going to reneg on what she stated, or is Liisa gong to
> > retract what she said.....or are the fish just going to get flushed,
> > or is usenet war 9,349,193 about to start in the aquaria groups
>
> Cat fight?
> No.
> Did you even read my reply?
> I totally said I goofed up...which is SO easy to do when it comes to
> these fish....hence the obvious confusion on which is really which.
> This is how people learn.
> I know you cannot comprehend this, but I'll say it anyway.
> I have no problem saying I goofed when I make a mistake.
> I'd rather lean than have a tantrum.


So your a **** up then huh Tynk, just like when you ****ed up and had
sex reassignment surgery to go from a guy to a chick or do you still
have that dick yet and waiting for $$$$$$$$$$$$ to complete the
transition. I sure hope you ake a better decision on the surgery and
the doc doing it than identifying fish.................

[Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]]

Tynk > wrote in
:

> Ah ha ha, geez.
> Crazy stuff. No wonder why folks get confused.
> There are so many sites saying completely different things, and
> showing the wrong pics as well.

These are all true Siamese Algae Eaters:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile102.html

This is Flying Fox:
http://www.aquarium-
villeurbannais.fr/images/contenu/poissons/nettoyeurs/epalzeorhynchus_kalopt
erus_g.jpg

And this is Cambodian Garra aka "false siamensis":
http://www.aquabase.org/member/album/pictures/9E0CF910FE5ACF8DA75E894DCE62D
B98_full.jpg

> There's books out there too that are incorrect.

Most books from English-speaking countries have wrong photos of these
fishes, right. Even some German books have problems with these, like older
editions of otherwise very good Baensch Atlas.

Liisa

[John Smith[_2_]]

Tynk wrote:
> On Dec 9, 2:52 pm, John Smith > wrote:
>
> I will not participate in your games.

That fool is not into games. He/she/it is for real.

I'd imagine he is fresh out of prison, or on his way there? A released
mental patient who has quit his medications? A drug addict? An
alcoholic (same thing, really?)

Whatever, he is trapped there, poor *******!

Regards,
JS

[Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]]

Tynk > wrote in
:

> The Flying Fox and False SAE links did not work.

They are just overlong, sorry bout that. Don't click but cut-and-paste.
They do work.

Liisa

[Liisa Sarakontu[_2_]]

Tynk > wrote in
:

> Ok, I got the Flying fox to work by pasting it, but the false SAE
> still didn't. (http://www.aquabase.org/member/album/pictures/
> 9E0CF910FE5ACF8DA75E894...
> B98_full.jpg )

The one I gave (and see in my newsreader, Xnews) works when I cut and
paste. Your reader seems to be excluding characters from the middle. Okay,
I can see that you use Google groups which isn't a real newsreader but just
a uh... a non-funcional program trying to emulate real newsreaders.

Anyway, try this:
http://tinyurl.com/5g3lke

> Being so often incorrectly labeled or pictured in so many books, fish
> mags, and sites, it's a wonder anyone knows which is which, lol.

That's exactly why Neil Frank and I wrote that article about these species
nearly 15 years ago. It is partially outdated, but it might still be best
one around. You can find it here:

http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html

Liisa

[John Smith[_2_]]

Tynk wrote:

> ...
> Ok, I got the Flying fox to work by pasting it, but the false SAE
> still didn't. (http://www.aquabase.org/member/album/pictures/
> 9E0CF910FE5ACF8DA75E894...
> B98_full.jpg )

Tynk:

I made a tiny URL of the addy, try this:

http://tinyurl.com/5g3lke

Regards,
JS

[Doug]

Thank you so much for all the info guys! I went away for a couple days,
came back and blam!! All this new info! thanks again. With the fish
being so small, it is still somewhat difficult to identify, so if I get a
chance here real soon, I will try to get a closer picture of one of my fish
and a absolute positive I.D., that is, if you fine folks don't mind, again
that is.

TIA,

Doug


"Liisa Sarakontu" > wrote in message
16...
> Tynk > wrote in
> :
>
>> Ok, I got the Flying fox to work by pasting it, but the false SAE
>> still didn't. (http://www.aquabase.org/member/album/pictures/
>> 9E0CF910FE5ACF8DA75E894...
>> B98_full.jpg )
>
> The one I gave (and see in my newsreader, Xnews) works when I cut and
> paste. Your reader seems to be excluding characters from the middle. Okay,
> I can see that you use Google groups which isn't a real newsreader but
> just
> a uh... a non-funcional program trying to emulate real newsreaders.
>
> Anyway, try this:
> http://tinyurl.com/5g3lke
>
>> Being so often incorrectly labeled or pictured in so many books, fish
>> mags, and sites, it's a wonder anyone knows which is which, lol.
>
> That's exactly why Neil Frank and I wrote that article about these species
> nearly 15 years ago. It is partially outdated, but it might still be best
> one around. You can find it here:
>
> http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html
>
> Liisa
>