Detritivores and Cichlids.

[Glenn Serpas]

Are their any detritivores(eat waste, extra food, scales) for a Mbuna
Cichlid aquarium? I know certain snails, crabs and micro-fauna perform this
task in marine aquariums. However, I've googled for "Freshwater and
detritivore", but found not found what I'm looking for.

Thanks,
Glenn

[NaCl]

When you say "for a mbuna aquarium" do you mean an animal which occurs in
nature in the same habitat as mbuna or merely one which will thrive along
with mbuna?


"Glenn Serpas" > wrote in message
...
> Are their any detritivores(eat waste, extra food, scales) for a Mbuna
> Cichlid aquarium? I know certain snails, crabs and micro-fauna perform
this
> task in marine aquariums. However, I've googled for "Freshwater and
> detritivore", but found not found what I'm looking for.
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>

[Glenn Serpas]

NaCl wrote:

> When you say "for a mbuna aquarium" do you mean an animal which occurs in
> nature in the same habitat as mbuna or merely one which will thrive along
> with mbuna?
>
>
> "Glenn Serpas" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Are their any detritivores(eat waste, extra food, scales) for a Mbuna
>> Cichlid aquarium? I know certain snails, crabs and micro-fauna perform
> this
>> task in marine aquariums. However, I've googled for "Freshwater and
>> detritivore", but found not found what I'm looking for.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Glenn
>>

Either will do. I just need something that can hold its own with my
Cichlids. Currently I have 1 Synodontis catfish in there. The research I've
done says they are scavengers but will only eat left over food and some
algae. I use UG and Canister filtration. I'm looking for something to keep
the gravel clean of waste and food, so I can control my Nitrates.

[Mike Edwardes]

In article >,
Glenn Serpas > wrote:

> Are their any detritivores(eat waste, extra food, scales) for a Mbuna
> Cichlid aquarium? I know certain snails, crabs and micro-fauna perform this
> task in marine aquariums. However, I've googled for "Freshwater and
> detritivore", but found not found what I'm looking for.
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn

I've had good luck with Ancistrus:
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Ancistrus.html
Make sure thay have a place to hide where the cichlids can't get at them.

Mike.
--
Mike Edwardes Tropicals
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net

[Mephistopheles]

Glenn Serpas > wrote in
om:

> NaCl wrote:
>
>> When you say "for a mbuna aquarium" do you mean an animal which
>> occurs in nature in the same habitat as mbuna or merely one
>> which will thrive along with mbuna?
>>
>>
>> "Glenn Serpas" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Are their any detritivores(eat waste, extra food, scales) for
>>> a Mbuna Cichlid aquarium? I know certain snails, crabs and
>>> micro-fauna perform this task in marine aquariums. However,
>>> I've googled for "Freshwater and detritivore", but found not
>>> found what I'm looking for.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Glenn
>>>
>
> Either will do. I just need something that can hold its own with
> my Cichlids. Currently I have 1 Synodontis catfish in there. The
> research I've done says they are scavengers but will only eat
> left over food and some algae. I use UG and Canister filtration.
> I'm looking for something to keep the gravel clean of waste and
> food, so I can control my Nitrates.

Glenn,

Not sure if you are aware, but freshwater aquarists generally take
a different approach from sal****er aquarists on this issue.
Freshwater fish are much less sensitive to nitrates than sal****er
fish, so nitrate control is really not that big of an issue. Since
water changes are relatively uncomplicated for freshwater tanks,
regular partial water changes are the primary tool to control
nitrates (at least where plants are not an option). That said, I
have actually read that some Malawi haps are offal eaters, such as
Otopharynx lithobates. I have also discovered that if you have
fine-grained gravel, a group of Fossorochromis rostratus will
relentlessly churn it after each feeding, so that much of what
resides in the gravel will be stirred up and sucked in to the
filters. Though I guess having an undergravel filter would
counteract this effect.

Regards,
Meph

P.S.: thanks for introducing me to the new word, i.e. detritivore.

[Glenn Serpas]

Mephistopheles wrote:

> Glenn Serpas > wrote in
> om:
>
>> NaCl wrote:
>>
>>> When you say "for a mbuna aquarium" do you mean an animal which
>>> occurs in nature in the same habitat as mbuna or merely one
>>> which will thrive along with mbuna?
>>>
>>>
>>> "Glenn Serpas" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Are their any detritivores(eat waste, extra food, scales) for
>>>> a Mbuna Cichlid aquarium? I know certain snails, crabs and
>>>> micro-fauna perform this task in marine aquariums. However,
>>>> I've googled for "Freshwater and detritivore", but found not
>>>> found what I'm looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Glenn
>>>>
>>
>> Either will do. I just need something that can hold its own with
>> my Cichlids. Currently I have 1 Synodontis catfish in there. The
>> research I've done says they are scavengers but will only eat
>> left over food and some algae. I use UG and Canister filtration.
>> I'm looking for something to keep the gravel clean of waste and
>> food, so I can control my Nitrates.
>
> Glenn,
>
> Not sure if you are aware, but freshwater aquarists generally take
> a different approach from sal****er aquarists on this issue.
> Freshwater fish are much less sensitive to nitrates than sal****er
> fish, so nitrate control is really not that big of an issue. Since
> water changes are relatively uncomplicated for freshwater tanks,
> regular partial water changes are the primary tool to control
> nitrates (at least where plants are not an option). That said, I
> have actually read that some Malawi haps are offal eaters, such as
> Otopharynx lithobates. I have also discovered that if you have
> fine-grained gravel, a group of Fossorochromis rostratus will
> relentlessly churn it after each feeding, so that much of what
> resides in the gravel will be stirred up and sucked in to the
> filters. Though I guess having an undergravel filter would
> counteract this effect.
>
> Regards,
> Meph
>
> P.S.: thanks for introducing me to the new word, i.e. detritivore.

Thanks for the information Meph. I will have to read up on the fish you
mentioned.

I found it fascinating that marine aquarium aquarists have found a method of
nitrate reduction that was so close to nature. Not that water changes are
not natural, but in a closed system, with nitrate sensitive organisms, you
either have to keep an extremely lite bio load, or perform frequent water
changes to keep nitrates below 10pmm when using UG or Wet Dry filtration. I
was just curious if a similar approach had been found for freshwater
systems. UG filtration appears to be a nitrate factory. I think I might get
rid of the UG filter or go to reverse flow UG filtration. Then again, small
weekly water changes/gravel siphoning may help prevent this as well. What
level of nitrate would you say is too high for freshwater fish,
specifically African Chichlids.

Thanks,
Glenn

[NetMax]

"Glenn Serpas" > wrote in message
m...
> Mephistopheles wrote:
> > Glenn Serpas > wrote in
> > om:
> >>> "Glenn Serpas" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
<snip>
>
> I found it fascinating that marine aquarium aquarists have found a
method of
> nitrate reduction that was so close to nature. Not that water changes
are
> not natural, but in a closed system, with nitrate sensitive organisms,
you
> either have to keep an extremely lite bio load, or perform frequent
water
> changes to keep nitrates below 10pmm when using UG or Wet Dry
filtration. I
> was just curious if a similar approach had been found for freshwater
> systems.

It's called lots of plants and high light. With Africans, you might be
limited in plant choices, but a large enough bed of Hornwort can be quite
efficient at NO3 removal, Africans cannot upset it (already floating),
and most will leave it alone. I have yet to try this on my Livingstoni,
as they have so far managed to eat everything I've put in that tank
(including duckweed), so ymmv.

*sorry to have jumped in, back to lurking*
NetMax

> UG filtration appears to be a nitrate factory. I think I might get
> rid of the UG filter or go to reverse flow UG filtration. Then again,
small
> weekly water changes/gravel siphoning may help prevent this as well.
What
> level of nitrate would you say is too high for freshwater fish,
> specifically African Chichlids.
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>

[Mephistopheles]

Glenn Serpas > wrote in
m:

>
> Thanks for the information Meph. I will have to read up on the
> fish you mentioned.
>
> I found it fascinating that marine aquarium aquarists have found
> a method of nitrate reduction that was so close to nature. Not
> that water changes are not natural, but in a closed system, with
> nitrate sensitive organisms, you either have to keep an
> extremely lite bio load, or perform frequent water changes to
> keep nitrates below 10pmm when using UG or Wet Dry filtration. I
> was just curious if a similar approach had been found for
> freshwater systems. UG filtration appears to be a nitrate
> factory. I think I might get rid of the UG filter or go to
> reverse flow UG filtration. Then again, small weekly water
> changes/gravel siphoning may help prevent this as well. What
> level of nitrate would you say is too high for freshwater fish,
> specifically African Chichlids.
>
> Thanks,
> Glenn
>
>

Glenn,

Your last question really sent me scurrying to the books. One book
("Manual of Fish Health") recommends keeping the nitrate level below
20 milligrams/liter for freshwater fish generally. I think this is
a pretty conservative guideline suitable for rift lake cichlids. My
nitrate test kit instructions from aquarium pharmaceuticals
recommends a level of 40 parts per million or less for freshwater
fish. Not sure how these figures compare since they are based on
two different measurements.

I only test for nitrates occasionally. I just work on the
assumption that partial water changes every two weeks or so will
keep levels down. Experimenting with a few plants can help too. I
tried net max's hornwort suggestion, but my Malawi cichlids ate the
hornwort, and it is also a rather messy plant to deal with. It is
also interesting to note that if you get blue-green algae in your
tank (which is not uncommon in rift lake tanks), it will be
something of a nuisance but it (which is actually not a plant but
cyanobacteria) will have the beneficial effect of reducing your
nitrates to zero.

Finally, I should have mentioned in my original post that the
particular fish I mentioned would probably not be ideal for a mbuna
tank. They are what are referred to as "haps", and most haps do not
mix well with mbuna.

Regards,
Meph