African Dwarf Frog and Eclipse System Three [Archive]

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Andrew Johnson

October 29th 03, 01:31 AM

Just curious if anybody can help me out. I bought an Eclipse System
Three (3 gallon) filtered aquarium and an African Dwarf Frog. Right
now I have a plastic plant and a small clay flowerpot for her to hang
out in. I feed her frozen brine shrimp and she spends hours jabbing
her snout into the rocks hunting. Then just relaxes in her cave.

Anyways, I used smooth medium sized (1/4" - 1/2") epoxy coated gravel.
Everything I read about these things says not to use anything sharp
or small for the substrate. They might hurt themseleves or eat eat
it. I also covered the intake with some cheesecloth so an arm or leg
wouldn't get stuck.

I was orginally thinking about adding a betta. I have one right now
in another 1 gallon aquarium but would buy another. But I have heard
that it is possible that they might not get along too well.

If I don't add the betta, would it be too small to add another frog.
I was also considering adding a couple of ghost shrimp. I am assuming
they pose no threat.

Does anybody else here have any other ideas what I could add without
overcrowding the tank?

I also would appreciate any ideas for a live plant.

Thanks

NetMax

October 29th 03, 05:31 PM

"Andrew Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
> Just curious if anybody can help me out. I bought an Eclipse System
> Three (3 gallon) filtered aquarium and an African Dwarf Frog. Right
> now I have a plastic plant and a small clay flowerpot for her to hang
> out in. I feed her frozen brine shrimp and she spends hours jabbing
> her snout into the rocks hunting. Then just relaxes in her cave.
>
> Anyways, I used smooth medium sized (1/4" - 1/2") epoxy coated gravel.
> Everything I read about these things says not to use anything sharp
> or small for the substrate. They might hurt themseleves or eat eat
> it. I also covered the intake with some cheesecloth so an arm or leg
> wouldn't get stuck.

Sounds like a lucky, well taken care of ADF :o)

> I was orginally thinking about adding a betta. I have one right now
> in another 1 gallon aquarium but would buy another. But I have heard
> that it is possible that they might not get along too well.

In nature, it would never work. Bettas are carnivores and I hear that
frogs taste like chicken ;~) however, with a domesticated Betta in an
artificial environment (small aquarium), it does work, about 97% of the
time. The Betta's attention is usually in the upper reaches of the tank
(top-feeder) and the ADF parks on surfaces (bottom-feeder), so they are
in different 'worlds'. The Betta quietly hunts things which move, and
the frog moves slowly (when he moves at all), except for the periodic mad
dash for air (which usually startles the Betta away). If you attempt
this, watch the Betta closely to determine if you are in the 97% or the
3%. It usually does not take too long, from a few minutes (to note the
Betta's level of interest) to a day or two (to see if anything begins
developing).

The fact that they share the same diet is very convenient (bloodworms,
brine shrimp, freeze-dried tubifex worms etc).

> If I don't add the betta, would it be too small to add another frog.
> I was also considering adding a couple of ghost shrimp. I am assuming
> they pose no threat.

No problemo on more ADFs. Ghost shrimp would be an experiment. The
adults _might_ be ok (especially if the ADFs are well fed), but any
newborn shrimp would be at risk. It's an inexpensive experiment.
Biggest risk is the disease vector so don't buy your shrimp from a tank
with frogs in it, and quarantine is always a good idea. I don't imagine
that a shrimp could be a threat to an ADF, but I've never tried it
myself. I think I've had Amano shrimp with ADFs and the Amano slowly
disappeared. If you ADFs were actually African Clawed frogs, then your
shrimp would be frog-food eventually.

> Does anybody else here have any other ideas what I could add without
> overcrowding the tank?

Consider adding an Apple snail (middle-feeder, glass cleaner, algae
eater, bottom-feeder), and throw in a sliver of zuchini or an algae wafer
once a week.

> I also would appreciate any ideas for a live plant.

Ideal plants for Bettas/ADF/snails have thick broad leaves. Both the
Betta & the frog can/will park in the leaves and the snail is less likely
to damage a thick leaf. Frogs prefer the leaves in the lower portion of
the tank (ie: Anubius), while Bettas usually hang out closer to the top
(ie: the larger Echinodorous, Pennywort, Moneywort..etc). It would also
be beneficial to have some selective ornaments. Anything with an flat
opening which would only fit the ADF, would give him a secure shelter
from Betta curiousity (a place to sleep in complete peace). Keep in mind
the ADF's eventual size, probably about x2 or x2.5 what they are usually
sold at. A similar shelter for the Betta would be nice too, as they like
to park in a secure area as well, conserving energy and relaxing while
they survey their 'kingdom' ;~). For him, an open cup-shape shelter with
a Lilypad on top (Limnobium laevigatum) would make a nice bachelor pad.

NetMax

> Thanks

Tedd

October 30th 03, 01:03 AM

it scares me to think i might be any kind of an authority on ADF's, but because
my wife loves them we have about two dozen now, so,...

[midposted]

"Andrew Johnson" > wrote in message
om...
> Just curious if anybody can help me out. I bought an Eclipse System
> Three (3 gallon) filtered aquarium and an African Dwarf Frog. Right
> now I have a plastic plant and a small clay flowerpot for her to hang
> out in. I feed her frozen brine shrimp and she spends hours jabbing
> her snout into the rocks hunting. Then just relaxes in her cave.
>
> Anyways, I used smooth medium sized (1/4" - 1/2") epoxy coated gravel.
> Everything I read about these things says not to use anything sharp
> or small for the substrate. They might hurt themseleves or eat eat
> it. I also covered the intake with some cheesecloth so an arm or leg
> wouldn't get stuck.

not much to worry about in the way of substrate, they will do well in either,
(we have ADF's in both gravel (fine and med) and in sand). unless they are so
sick and lathargic that they cant even get to the surface for air, you have very
little to worry about in the way of them getting sucked into your filter system.

> I was orginally thinking about adding a betta. I have one right now
> in another 1 gallon aquarium but would buy another. But I have heard
> that it is possible that they might not get along too well.

as NetMax has posted, in nature it'd not work, but in hobby, it works fine. the
likelyhood of the ADF's _allowing_ the betta's to pick on them is fairly low in
my experience. (we have a poor goldfish that the little buggers chase around the
tank durring feeding days to keep him away from their food.)

> If I don't add the betta, would it be too small to add another frog.
> I was also considering adding a couple of ghost shrimp. I am assuming
> they pose no threat.

because ADF's are not as dependent of water quality for survival as fish are
(i.e. the frogs dont "breath" the water) keeping a number of them together is
not much of a problem. from our experience the biggest problem with overcrowding
is making sure everyone gets their fair share of food. we've kept over a dozen
in a 10gal, though 6-8 usually works the best in most takes. for a 3 gallon with
a filteration system i would venture to say that 2 or 3 with a betta would work
fine.

i would avoid the ghost shrimp, (been there, tried that) they'll hunt them down
and pick them appart at the start. after a while, those that survive the initial
onslaught of the first couple days (if any) would generally be okay and have
very little harrasment from either the betta or the ADF's,... then they'd just
die. ghost shrimp seem to be something of a quirk when it comes to being able to
keep them. i've been trying for the past few months to come up with a way of
making it work in a five gallon bucket experiment, i've had one group that
breed, then they all died off. *shrug*. still trying.

> Does anybody else here have any other ideas what I could add without
> overcrowding the tank?

a pair of guppies might help to keep the ADF's fed, ;-)

> I also would appreciate any ideas for a live plant.

sorry, i'm still working on that too, seems the only thing i can keep alive is
frogs and fish. ;-)

hope this helps you some andrew, best of luck. :-)

tedd.

Kay

October 30th 03, 05:24 AM

Andrew Johnson wrote:
I have 6 ADF's in an eclipse 12 , I have some apple snails and I tried a
betta, ,but the male betta killed 2 of them. I took him out and he is in
hisz own little tank, However I have a female betta in there now its been
about 6 months and there is no trouble at all.

In a past experence, a few frogs ate all my guppy fry. I should have known!

Kay

Mike Edwardes

October 30th 03, 06:26 AM

(Andrew Johnson) wrote in message >...
> Just curious if anybody can help me out. I bought an Eclipse System
> Three (3 gallon) filtered aquarium and an African Dwarf Frog. Right
> now I have a plastic plant and a small clay flowerpot for her to hang
> out in. I feed her frozen brine shrimp and she spends hours jabbing
> her snout into the rocks hunting. Then just relaxes in her cave.
> Anyways, I used smooth medium sized (1/4" - 1/2") epoxy coated gravel.
> Everything I read about these things says not to use anything sharp
> or small for the substrate. They might hurt themseleves or eat eat
> it. I also covered the intake with some cheesecloth so an arm or leg
> wouldn't get stuck.
> I was orginally thinking about adding a betta. I have one right now
> in another 1 gallon aquarium but would buy another. But I have heard
> that it is possible that they might not get along too well.
> If I don't add the betta, would it be too small to add another frog.
> I was also considering adding a couple of ghost shrimp. I am assuming
> they pose no threat.
> Does anybody else here have any other ideas what I could add without
> overcrowding the tank?

The betta is a bad idea - please dont do it. You could add 1 more ADF
(they are quite sociable), but a 5 gallon tank would be better really:
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Amphibiary/Hymenochirus.html

> I also would appreciate any ideas for a live plant.

Google for:
Java moss
Java fern
Anubias

Mike.
--
Mike Edwardes Tropicals
http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Amphibiary

Gail Futoran

October 30th 03, 02:12 PM