Buffer

[Terry]

Can we add Sea Buffer to our cichlid tank to boost the PH?
Need to raise it significantly. Currently at 7.4.
Anyone can you help?
Terry

[Rick]

"Terry" > wrote in message
m...
> Can we add Sea Buffer to our cichlid tank to boost the PH?
> Need to raise it significantly. Currently at 7.4.
> Anyone can you help?
> Terry
>
wade through the information in the re: KH test kits thread for info. on
buffering your tank. You can use simple baking soda to raise you Ph up to
about 8.4. What size is your tank?

Rick

[battlelance]

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 01:32:07 GMT, "Terry" >
wrote:

>Can we add Sea Buffer to our cichlid tank to boost the PH?
>Need to raise it significantly. Currently at 7.4.
>Anyone can you help?

You'll want to test your tap water for pH, KH and GH, then read this:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php

You'll want to pick up some baking soda, epsom salt and marine salt
(you can use table salt, but alas, it lacks many minerals found in
marine salt).

Once you have those, use the buffer recipe to come up with your own
formula, and run with that. It's cheap and works very well.

Just keep in mind you'll want to add the buffer VERY SLOWLY as to
avoid shocking your fish with sudden water chemistry changes.

Good luck.

[Rick]

"battlelance" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 01:32:07 GMT, "Terry" >
> wrote:
>
> >Can we add Sea Buffer to our cichlid tank to boost the PH?
> >Need to raise it significantly. Currently at 7.4.
> >Anyone can you help?
>
> You'll want to test your tap water for pH, KH and GH, then read this:
>
> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/buffer_recipe.php
>
> You'll want to pick up some baking soda, epsom salt and marine salt
> (you can use table salt, but alas, it lacks many minerals found in
> marine salt).
>
> Once you have those, use the buffer recipe to come up with your own
> formula, and run with that. It's cheap and works very well.
>
> Just keep in mind you'll want to add the buffer VERY SLOWLY as to
> avoid shocking your fish with sudden water chemistry changes.
>
> Good luck.



Battlelance, just our of curiosity what size tank do you have that you use
this recipe on?. I took a look at it and unless I read it wrong I would have
to add 13 tablespoons of Epsom salts, about 13 teaspoons of baking soda and
13 teaspoons of marine salt to my 66 gallon tank to get my PH and hardness
up to about my current levels. I can see why you suggest to add this very
slowly. I used no where near those amounts and my Ph started off similar to
the original posters. I would suggest baking soda about one tablespoon to
about 33 gallons or about half of what your site suggests and then check Ph
levels and 13 tablespoons of salt, I don't think so, not in my tank. Anyway
we should keep in mind that recreating the water conditions that say African
cichlids live in is probably changing the water considerably from what they
were raised in as most of those cichlids we buy from LFS were born and
raised in some fish farm somewhere USA using water conditions that are
available where they are raised. To the original poster, there are numerous
sites out there that give information about buffering water and you will
find that few of them are the same.

Rick

[battlelance]

On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:23:12 -0600, "Rick" >
wrote:

>Battlelance, just our of curiosity what size tank do you have that you use
>this recipe on?. I took a look at it and unless I read it wrong I would have
>to add 13 tablespoons of Epsom salts, about 13 teaspoons of baking soda and
>13 teaspoons of marine salt to my 66 gallon tank to get my PH and hardness
>up to about my current levels.

I use it on an 80 gallon tank. I would have to go dig up my original
calculations to find out how much I would need to add to get it to
where it is now (pH 8.0, KH ~200), because once I got it up to this
level, you just have to maintain it based on the amount of water you
remove from the tank. I do know it was nowhere near your numbers. Did
you actually take a bucket of dechlorinated water and see how many
tsp/tbsp's you would have to add to reach your desired levels? It's
not something you could just guess at.

I'm probably being too picky, since my original pH is ~7.5, and the
africans should handle this just fine, but my KH and GH are > 10, and
I really wanted to bring that KH up. I also added crushed coral to the
substrate and in the filter, and I'm currently monitoring the results
to see if I can get a higher pH and KH, without altering the formula I
use for the rift lake buffer recipe.

And hey, it's cheaper than the "rift lake in a bottle" you can buy
from the LFS :)

Oh, I also wanted to mention that it takes time for the baking soda
and epsom salts to work. I was a tad hasty when I first did my
calculations, and my pH shot up in the tank causing my yellow labs to
start scratching, and they eventually both died. <sniff>

[Rick]

"battlelance" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:23:12 -0600, "Rick" >
> wrote:
>
> >Battlelance, just our of curiosity what size tank do you have that you
use
> >this recipe on?. I took a look at it and unless I read it wrong I would
have
> >to add 13 tablespoons of Epsom salts, about 13 teaspoons of baking soda
and
> >13 teaspoons of marine salt to my 66 gallon tank to get my PH and
hardness
> >up to about my current levels.
>
> I use it on an 80 gallon tank. I would have to go dig up my original
> calculations to find out how much I would need to add to get it to
> where it is now (pH 8.0, KH ~200), because once I got it up to this
> level, you just have to maintain it based on the amount of water you
> remove from the tank. I do know it was nowhere near your numbers. Did
> you actually take a bucket of dechlorinated water and see how many
> tsp/tbsp's you would have to add to reach your desired levels? It's
> not something you could just guess at.
>
> I'm probably being too picky, since my original pH is ~7.5, and the
> africans should handle this just fine, but my KH and GH are > 10, and
> I really wanted to bring that KH up. I also added crushed coral to the
> substrate and in the filter, and I'm currently monitoring the results
> to see if I can get a higher pH and KH, without altering the formula I
> use for the rift lake buffer recipe.
>
> And hey, it's cheaper than the "rift lake in a bottle" you can buy
> from the LFS :)
>
> Oh, I also wanted to mention that it takes time for the baking soda
> and epsom salts to work. I was a tad hasty when I first did my
> calculations, and my pH shot up in the tank causing my yellow labs to
> start scratching, and they eventually both died. <sniff>
>
>
>
In my tank I initially added one tablespoon of baking soda which brought up
my PH but I want my KH for my Mbunas's to be between 14-17 so I added
another couple of teaspoons. I did some research and using the recipe as
described on that site for my tank would give me an initial PH of 8.2 and a
KH of 322 or something akin to liquid rock. Using my formula would give me
a PH of 8.2 and a KH of 14 to 15, adding two more teaspoons of baking soda
would keep my PH at 8.2 but raise my KH to 17-18 range which is perfect for
me. Adding Epsom salts and or marine salts in MHO is not really necessary in
a African tank although it does add some minerals and trace elements that
some recommend. Research on waters of Lake Malawi will reveal that the PH
range is 7.8-8.0 with very limited number of elements so adding marine salt
introduces a wide range of elements which are not found in the natural
biotope of the fish. Marine salt of course is not a buffering additive
however it does contain carbonates which in my particular example would
raise my PH from 8.2 to 8.4. For Africans from Lake Malawi , 8.2 would IMO
be the upper limit of where one should be. Marine water has a ph of 8.4 and
is already out of the range of Africans. Anyway, nothing wrong with a
healthy discussion as everyone benefits in the end as it should prompt those
interested in doing more research.
Regards
Rick

[battlelance]

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:02:31 -0600, "Rick" >
wrote:

>is already out of the range of Africans. Anyway, nothing wrong with a
>healthy discussion as everyone benefits in the end as it should prompt those
>interested in doing more research.

I agree, although you're starting to get over my head. When it comes
to the buffer, I go by the "I add it, in such and such a quantity, and
it does what I want" rule :)

Having said that, I think the Marine salt will contribute more than
you think. I came across a great discussion/article (I'm trying to
find it again) regarding the chemical composition of one of the
african lakes, and they were comparing the minerals to what is found
in a marine salt like Instant Ocean, and there were quite a few
similarities. Of course, one could argue that these fish have rarely
(if ever) experienced these minerals, thus it doesn't make one squat
of a difference.

<shrug>

If they're happy, I'm happy. Except my girlfriend is very angry I'm
using all her epsom salts :)

[Rick]

"battlelance" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:02:31 -0600, "Rick" >
> wrote:
>
> >is already out of the range of Africans. Anyway, nothing wrong with a
> >healthy discussion as everyone benefits in the end as it should prompt
those
> >interested in doing more research.
>
> I agree, although you're starting to get over my head. When it comes
> to the buffer, I go by the "I add it, in such and such a quantity, and
> it does what I want" rule :)
>
> Having said that, I think the Marine salt will contribute more than
> you think. I came across a great discussion/article (I'm trying to
> find it again) regarding the chemical composition of one of the
> african lakes, and they were comparing the minerals to what is found
> in a marine salt like Instant Ocean, and there were quite a few
> similarities. Of course, one could argue that these fish have rarely
> (if ever) experienced these minerals, thus it doesn't make one squat
> of a difference.
>
> <shrug>
>
> If they're happy, I'm happy. Except my girlfriend is very angry I'm
> using all her epsom salts :)
>
>

tell her that the use of Epsom salts will keep your fish "regular". It's a
great additive at a rate of a teaspoon per 5 gallons for any fish suffering
constipation however we should never have that problem in our cichlid tank!!

Rick