Another "what fish?" post!

[Jamesy]

Hi!

I'm completely new to Cichlids, having successfully maintained a thriving
community tank for some time now. I'm also new to this board (obviously) and
(if it makes any difference!) I live in Scotland.

I'm picking up a new tank tomorrow (Juwel Rio 300 - approx 75 US gallons
IIRC - plus a big Eheim Pro filter, Cichlid-specific substrate and /lots/ of
Tufa rock), which I intend to set up for a "community" of Mbuna.

Soooooo, the big (and cliche'd) question is, "Will these fish get along OK?"

1 trio Iodotropheus Sprengerae
1 trio Labidochromis Caeruleus
1 quartet Metriaclima Estherae
1 quartet Pseudotropheus Demasoni
1 quartet Metriaclima Crabro

My main (again, cliche'd) intention is to keep the tank as active, but
stress-free, as possible. I expect /some/ aggression - they are Mbuna after
all - but I want to avoid constant fights and/or killing sprees!

Secondly, I would also like to keep 1 or 2 Synodontis cats (ideally
Angelicus, if they are suited to a Mbuna tank), and a couple of nice
Plec's - which ones would be recommended?

And last, but certainly not least, how does this look for a stocking level?
As much as I have tried to research the various under-stocking/over-stocking
theories, it is very difficult to find a definitive answer. I realise that
there may be no such thing as a definitive answer, as we are talking about
"wild animals" after all, and every tank is different, but as I am
completely new to Cichlids, /some/ pointers are helpful!

Many thanks (in advance!)

James

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:06:30 GMT, "Jamesy"
> wrote:

>
>Soooooo, the big (and cliche'd) question is, "Will these fish get along OK?"
>
>1 trio Iodotropheus Sprengerae
>1 trio Labidochromis Caeruleus
>1 quartet Metriaclima Estherae
>1 quartet Pseudotropheus Demasoni
>1 quartet Metriaclima Crabro
>

Apart from the Labidochromis the males can get a bit aggressive when
they are establishing who is boss.

>Secondly, I would also like to keep 1 or 2 Synodontis cats (ideally
>Angelicus, if they are suited to a Mbuna tank), and a couple of nice
>Plec's - which ones would be recommended?

Syndontis angelicus will do OK but aren't they a bit expensive?

Bristlenose do well with Mbuna and they will breed.

Plecs do not "clean" the glass as well as Bristlenose and you've no
chance of breeding them.


Steve
--
EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
Build networks from numeric, text and image files.
http://www.easynn.com

[Jamesy]

> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:06:30 GMT, "Jamesy"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Soooooo, the big (and cliche'd) question is, "Will these fish get along
OK?"
> >
> >1 trio Iodotropheus Sprengerae
> >1 trio Labidochromis Caeruleus
> >1 quartet Metriaclima Estherae
> >1 quartet Pseudotropheus Demasoni
> >1 quartet Metriaclima Crabro
> >
>
> Apart from the Labidochromis the males can get a bit aggressive when
> they are establishing who is boss.

Thanks for the quick reply, Steve. Could you elaborate on that?

Is "a bit aggressive" at a level that's likely to stress/distress/damage
or - god forbid - kill?

Also, how long is it likely to take for the "alpha male" to establish
himself?

Lastly, once the alpha male /is/ established, does the aggression diminish,
or does he constantly defend his position?

>
> >Secondly, I would also like to keep 1 or 2 Synodontis cats (ideally
> >Angelicus, if they are suited to a Mbuna tank), and a couple of nice
> >Plec's - which ones would be recommended?
>
> Syndontis angelicus will do OK but aren't they a bit expensive?

Don't care :-P

Seriously though, most fish are so cheap (certainly compared to other pets -
I come from a family of dog breeders, and I'm still amazed when updated to
current prices), I think we tend to think "HOW MUCH!!?!?!?" when presented
with a beautiful, rare fish and an appropriately "beautiful, rare" price
tag!

Also, when you consider just how much we spend on our aquaria set-ups, the
livestock tends to be a small percentage!

>
> Bristlenose do well with Mbuna and they will breed.
>
> Plecs do not "clean" the glass as well as Bristlenose and you've no
> chance of breeding them.

Hmm, I'm not really that concerned with either - I don't mind cleaning the
glass myself (I have "Spotted Hillstream Loaches" - Gastromyzon punculatus -
as cleaners in my community tank, and they're useless!), and I'm not overly
concerned with them breeding.

I /do/ fancy a couple of nice L-number Plecs though, as long as they are
suitable for the tank.

>
> Steve
> --
> EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks.
> Build networks from numeric, text and image files.
> http://www.easynn.com

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:59:02 GMT, "Jamesy"
> wrote:

> wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:06:30 GMT, "Jamesy"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Soooooo, the big (and cliche'd) question is, "Will these fish get along
>OK?"
>> >
>> >1 trio Iodotropheus Sprengerae
>> >1 trio Labidochromis Caeruleus
>> >1 quartet Metriaclima Estherae
>> >1 quartet Pseudotropheus Demasoni
>> >1 quartet Metriaclima Crabro
>> >
>>
>> Apart from the Labidochromis the males can get a bit aggressive when
>> they are establishing who is boss.
>
>Thanks for the quick reply, Steve. Could you elaborate on that?
>
>Is "a bit aggressive" at a level that's likely to stress/distress/damage
>or - god forbid - kill?
>

Some Mbuna will kill if given the opportunity. You can usually avoid
this by making sure the others have somewhere to hide. It is important
to arrange rocks up to the surface so small islands are formed.
Another trick is floating plastic pipes but they look terrible.

>Also, how long is it likely to take for the "alpha male" to establish
>himself?
>

Depends what you are starting with. With small tank bred fish the boss
will become obvious when he gets to about 2" but he won't cause any
serious trouble until he gets to about 3". With adult wild fish the
boss will be established in about a hour.

>Lastly, once the alpha male /is/ established, does the aggression diminish,
>or does he constantly defend his position?
>

He will always have to maintain his position in the hierarchy.

>>
>> >Secondly, I would also like to keep 1 or 2 Synodontis cats (ideally
>> >Angelicus, if they are suited to a Mbuna tank), and a couple of nice
>> >Plec's - which ones would be recommended?
>>
>> Syndontis angelicus will do OK but aren't they a bit expensive?
>
>Don't care :-P
>
>Seriously though, most fish are so cheap (certainly compared to other pets -
>I come from a family of dog breeders, and I'm still amazed when updated to
>current prices), I think we tend to think "HOW MUCH!!?!?!?" when presented
>with a beautiful, rare fish and an appropriately "beautiful, rare" price
>tag!
>
>Also, when you consider just how much we spend on our aquaria set-ups, the
>livestock tends to be a small percentage!
>

When I was into breeding fish the cost of equipment was insignificant
compared with some of the rare wild fish that I just had to invest in!

Steve