Re: SALT??

[Hank Pagel]

Yes and a BIG NO!
Yes you should add salt.
NO NOT table salt . The iodine is n/g.
I use the man made salts ( like "Instant Ocean" or others used for
making salt water for reef fish) It is cheaper and contains buffers
that help maintain water quality. I use 1 heaping table spoon per 5
gal. of water every OTHER water change to keep the salt level
changing.
Salt (NaCl) does not change the pH of water. It also does not change
the hardness.

A few fish do not tolerate aquarium salt. Corydoras catfish and many
live aquatic plants do not do well with salt in their water.

Salt lessens the number of pathogens in the water. For example very
few, perhaps only one or two groups, of freshwater bacteria tolerate
salt well.

The above is what I have done for years. Below is the other school of
thought that I disagree with. It all comes down to making your own
decision. Check with your local pet store, I'll guess they are using
salt in their freshwater tanks.

Salt is a wonderful remedy to treat ailments, or to control the
toxicity of nitrite/nitrate spikes, but as a normal maintenance
procedure it is a no-no for goldfish. Salt also tends to make water
harder. If you already have hard water, you are adding to his stress.
Through what is called "osmosis" your goldfish already maintains a
normal high salt concentration in his body fluids and needs to absorb
freshwater into his cells to keep in balance. By adding more salt to
his water, you are overloading his system and putting him under
osmotic stress. This can be fatal. It saps their energy and strength
and weakens their immune system, or can even kill them. (The author of
this did not put their name on the AOL site that posted it) I would
not have put my name on it either.

"fishbee" > wrote in message
...
> So, do I need to put salt in my aquarium??
> And what kind of salt - normal "table salt" ok?
>
> Fishbee
>
> "Gunther" > ¦b¶l¥ó
> t ¤¤¼¶¼g...
> > Top posting, cuz he started it!
> >
> > Actually, he's probably quoting some stuff from the
> > side of the Dr. Wellfish salt container. See also
> > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/aqgold.html where they say
> >
> > "(Salt)provides the correct balance of electrolytes and minerals
> > needed by goldfish for proper respiration, healthy gill
> > function and osmotic balance. Provides protection from toxic
nitrite."
> >
> > I'm not saying it's true, mind you, only that they said it.
> >
> > Gunther
> >
> >
> > In article >,

> > says...
> > > Hank,
> > >
> > > Salt has absolutely nothing to do with the transfer of oxygen
across the
> > > gills.
> > >
> > > Tom L.L.
> > > "Hank Pagel" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I think salt helps in the transfer of oxygen in the gills
which helps
> > > > lessen stress. IMO it has nothing to do with hardness in this
case.
> > > > "fishbee" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > Hi:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am new to this newsgroup and found "salt" mentioned in a
few
> > > > messages.
> > > > > Can someone tell me whether "salt" is needed for FG - my
water is of
> > > > the
> > > > > "soft" variety.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fishbee
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> Yes and a BIG NO!
> Yes you should add salt.
> NO NOT table salt . The iodine is n/g.

No, no, no! It's not the iodine that's the problem:
it's the anti-caking stuff most table salt contains,
usually yellow prussiate of soda (YPS), and it can be
found in non-iodized table salt. Kosher salt is
additive-free. (And it's great in the kitchen too!
Try Diamond Crystal brand.)

I suggest you go to koivet.com and search for the
salt article there. It's good.

I tend to use it only as a non-specific treatment,
or for parasites, not all the time. That is,
my tanks are normally salt-free unless there's something
else going on. This is mostly out of laziness -- I don't
want to have to do the math to keep track of salinity
levels. Remember, too much salt is not a good thing.

Gunther

[Hank Pagel]

Ah! so you do agree that fluctuating salinity levels can fight some
diseases and kills most freshwater parasites. Why not prevent them????
You can't be that lazy if you bothered to find out about the
anti-caking agents in table salt. All it takes is a scoop and a stir
every other water change. And yes, yes the iodine is not good for the
fish also.
So, with that said I will rest my case and say. fishbee, ....
IMO ...... Use the salt, especially if you are adding new fish and not
using quarantine. ( Gunther, there is a topic I bet we can agree on)
"Gunther" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
> > Yes and a BIG NO!
> > Yes you should add salt.
> > NO NOT table salt . The iodine is n/g.
>
> No, no, no! It's not the iodine that's the problem:
> it's the anti-caking stuff most table salt contains,
> usually yellow prussiate of soda (YPS), and it can be
> found in non-iodized table salt. Kosher salt is
> additive-free. (And it's great in the kitchen too!
> Try Diamond Crystal brand.)
>
> I suggest you go to koivet.com and search for the
> salt article there. It's good.
>
> I tend to use it only as a non-specific treatment,
> or for parasites, not all the time. That is,
> my tanks are normally salt-free unless there's something
> else going on. This is mostly out of laziness -- I don't
> want to have to do the math to keep track of salinity
> levels. Remember, too much salt is not a good thing.
>
> Gunther

[Gunther]

In article >,
says...
> Ah! so you do agree that fluctuating salinity levels can fight some
> diseases and kills most freshwater parasites. Why not prevent them????

I'm not sure about the fluctuation part, but yes, controlled
low-dosage salt is beneficial.

> You can't be that lazy if you bothered to find out about the
> anti-caking agents in table salt. All it takes is a scoop and a stir
> every other water change.

Ah, you have no inkling of the depths to which my laziness can descend!
I enjoy reading/researching because it can be done on my ass.
Actual effort is another matter entirely. ;-)

Seriously, I have three tanks of 3 different sizes, all goldfish,
and when I do a water change, I use the eyeball (I'm tempted to
say IEBIBALL, but that's pretty obscure) method.
That is, I guess at how much was removed, so then I'd have to guess
at how salty it was before, figure how salty I want it to be, then
guess at how much additional salt that would require. In my experience,
guessing compounded upon guesswork results in bad results.
The "zero-additive" rule, on the other hand, is easily implemented
with precision.

> And yes, yes the iodine is not good for the
> fish also.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply it was benign, only that
"non-iodized" isn't the only requirement for safe use.

> So, with that said I will rest my case and say. fishbee, ....
> IMO ...... Use the salt, especially if you are adding new fish and not
> using quarantine. ( Gunther, there is a topic I bet we can agree on)

Oh yes, I'm in agreement. Although I'm very hesitant to forego
quarantine. I usually do both. E.g. right now I have two
new orandas (picture posted earlier to alt.binaries.aquaria)
in a 0.1% salt environment, since I fully expect them to be
carrying ich. Depending on what I see in the next few
days, I'll either increase that (up to 0.3%) or let it
drop out with normal PWCs. In cases like this,
I keep better records and actually measure the water
changes, simply by using a bucket instead of my Python®.
That has the additional benefit of not contaminating
the python in case the newbies are _really_ sick.

But once I'm convinced the danger is over, I try to
make it as easy as possible on myself by limiting the
need to think during PWCs. Thinking = Work, the
antithesis of Hobby.


Gunther

> "Gunther" > wrote in message
> t...
> > In article >,
> > says...
> > > Yes and a BIG NO!
> > > Yes you should add salt.
> > > NO NOT table salt . The iodine is n/g.
> >
> > No, no, no! It's not the iodine that's the problem:
> > it's the anti-caking stuff most table salt contains,
> > usually yellow prussiate of soda (YPS), and it can be
> > found in non-iodized table salt. Kosher salt is
> > additive-free. (And it's great in the kitchen too!
> > Try Diamond Crystal brand.)
> >
> > I suggest you go to koivet.com and search for the
> > salt article there. It's good.
> >
> > I tend to use it only as a non-specific treatment,
> > or for parasites, not all the time. That is,
> > my tanks are normally salt-free unless there's something
> > else going on. This is mostly out of laziness -- I don't
> > want to have to do the math to keep track of salinity
> > levels. Remember, too much salt is not a good thing.
> >
> > Gunther
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

yes, 0.05-0.1% salt (get a pond salt test kit) is beneficial. Use solar salt, the
stuff used to soften water. comes in big bags. use the excess to salt walks in
winter (if you got a winter). or kosher salt that has no additives.
1-3 teaspoons per 5 gallons of water, check salt levels once a month. Ingrid

"fishbee" > wrote:
>So, do I need to put salt in my aquarium??
>And what kind of salt - normal "table salt" ok?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

[fishbee]

Thanks everyone :-)

Have had happy fishs for two+ years but 3 deads in a week - old tank
leaks and new tank in - have not done any cycling - should have known
you people before the change.....The rest seems to settle down for now.
If anything comes up, I will try salt individually.

Fishbee

> ???
???...
> yes, 0.05-0.1% salt (get a pond salt test kit) is beneficial. Use solar
salt, the
> stuff used to soften water. comes in big bags. use the excess to salt
walks in
> winter (if you got a winter). or kosher salt that has no additives.
> 1-3 teaspoons per 5 gallons of water, check salt levels once a month.
Ingrid
>
> "fishbee" > wrote:
> >So, do I need to put salt in my aquarium??
> >And what kind of salt - normal "table salt" ok?
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

[Tom La Bron]

Hank, Fishbee, and Gunther,

Save your salt for your French fries. Salt can be used for quarantine tanks
and for pest eradication, but low levels of salt have not been shown
scientifically to prevent anything. There is research that shows that low
levels of salt make some bugs immune to it and it becomes useless in an
effort top use it as a cure for some parasites.

Now about the Iodine. This again is an urban legend. Fish require more
iodine in their systems that mammals. Plus, the amount of iodine in salt is
so low that you would kill the fry your fish with salt long before you would
even make it sick with any iodine that is in the salt.

Tom L.L.
"Hank Pagel" > wrote in message
.. .
> Yes and a BIG NO!
> Yes you should add salt.
> NO NOT table salt . The iodine is n/g.
> I use the man made salts ( like "Instant Ocean" or others used for
> making salt water for reef fish) It is cheaper and contains buffers
> that help maintain water quality. I use 1 heaping table spoon per 5
> gal. of water every OTHER water change to keep the salt level
> changing.
> Salt (NaCl) does not change the pH of water. It also does not change
> the hardness.
>
> A few fish do not tolerate aquarium salt. Corydoras catfish and many
> live aquatic plants do not do well with salt in their water.
>
> Salt lessens the number of pathogens in the water. For example very
> few, perhaps only one or two groups, of freshwater bacteria tolerate
> salt well.
>
> The above is what I have done for years. Below is the other school of
> thought that I disagree with. It all comes down to making your own
> decision. Check with your local pet store, I'll guess they are using
> salt in their freshwater tanks.
>
> Salt is a wonderful remedy to treat ailments, or to control the
> toxicity of nitrite/nitrate spikes, but as a normal maintenance
> procedure it is a no-no for goldfish. Salt also tends to make water
> harder. If you already have hard water, you are adding to his stress.
> Through what is called "osmosis" your goldfish already maintains a
> normal high salt concentration in his body fluids and needs to absorb
> freshwater into his cells to keep in balance. By adding more salt to
> his water, you are overloading his system and putting him under
> osmotic stress. This can be fatal. It saps their energy and strength
> and weakens their immune system, or can even kill them. (The author of
> this did not put their name on the AOL site that posted it) I would
> not have put my name on it either.
>
> "fishbee" > wrote in message
> ...
> > So, do I need to put salt in my aquarium??
> > And what kind of salt - normal "table salt" ok?
> >
> > Fishbee
> >
> > "Gunther" > ¦b¶l¥ó
> > t ¤¤¼¶¼g...
> > > Top posting, cuz he started it!
> > >
> > > Actually, he's probably quoting some stuff from the
> > > side of the Dr. Wellfish salt container. See also
> > > http://www.aquariumpharm.com/aqgold.html where they say
> > >
> > > "(Salt)provides the correct balance of electrolytes and minerals
> > > needed by goldfish for proper respiration, healthy gill
> > > function and osmotic balance. Provides protection from toxic
> nitrite."
> > >
> > > I'm not saying it's true, mind you, only that they said it.
> > >
> > > Gunther
> > >
> > >
> > > In article >,
>
> > > says...
> > > > Hank,
> > > >
> > > > Salt has absolutely nothing to do with the transfer of oxygen
> across the
> > > > gills.
> > > >
> > > > Tom L.L.
> > > > "Hank Pagel" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I think salt helps in the transfer of oxygen in the gills
> which helps
> > > > > lessen stress. IMO it has nothing to do with hardness in this
> case.
> > > > > "fishbee" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > Hi:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am new to this newsgroup and found "salt" mentioned in a
> few
> > > > > messages.
> > > > > > Can someone tell me whether "salt" is needed for FG - my
> water is of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > "soft" variety.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Fishbee
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Hank Pagel]

Calcium chloride will turn water milky white if the PH is not correct.
If you think pea green is not attractive try milky white. And it's
harder to get rid of.
"BErney1014" > wrote in message
...
> Salt, sodium chloride, is unnessary for your tank or pond. It is an
irritant
> and uses energy that should go toward other areas.
> What is used to deal with nitrites is chlorides, not sodium. Sodium
is used in
> blood in trace amounts. If you know your water chemistry you can use
a chloride
> of your choice to provide a balanced chemistry. Calcium chloride is
one.
> Years ago I brought the subject up as salt being a treatment in a
new tank or
> pond for brown blood and a goldfish dealer checked with her
associates at a
> university and said there has never been a brown blood case (nitrite
poisoning)
> in goldfish.