Threadfin Rainbows & Planted Tank

[Cam]

My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need to
start over this weekend. There are a number of things I recognise that I
have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus providing
practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows. I would like to add some
more peaceful compatible tankmates. Any suggestions? Quantity? Species? I
can't add more Threadfins as they are rare in my area and I bought the last
4 from the LFS, 1 male (he's a beauty) and 3 females. Any Ideas?

Many Thanks
Cameron

[Cam]

Hey Eric

Thanks for the suggestion. I live in South Africa dood, decent varieties of
fish are few and far between. I have read articles and seen pics of Siamese
Algae Eaters but have never seen a live one! Sheesh, I've never even seen a
live Killifish!!! Hows that for a bummer? I also hear that SAE's can get
nasty once they're a bit bigger. I could move them I suppose to another tank
but would like to add algae grazers that can co-exist with Iriatherina
Wernieri peacefully. The keyword with this tank is Greenpeace :) LOL...

Anyways, I've been doing some researching on cyanobacteria, I believe this
is the evil that has inhabited my tank. I understand that this bacteria
flourishes when there is excess phosphates in the water column. The last 2
weeks I have added 0 ferts to the tank as I thought that starving the tank
might alleviate the algae probs. God, I could'nt have been more mistaken.
Apparenly I need to add MORE ferts in order for the plants to take up the
excess phosphates. Am i understanding this correctly? I think I also need to
add more plants. I only have about 40% of the foot of the tank covered.

Any suggestions, anyone. Is this tank still salvagable? God help me :) LOL.
Help me, Tom...Leighmo....other Gurus?


"Eric Schreiber" > wrote in message
...
> "Cam" > wrote:
>
> >My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
> >Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need to
> >start over this weekend. There are a number of things I recognise that I
> >have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus
providing
> >practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
> >gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows. I would like to add
some
> >more peaceful compatible tankmates. Any suggestions? Quantity? Species?
>
> Instead of tearing up the existing setup (and stressing your fish),
> how about adding one or two Siamese Algae Eaters? Not only will they
> provide nutrients for the plants you want, but they'll do so by eating
> the algae which you don't want.
>
> And they're fairly entertaining fish, too.
>
>
> --
> www.ericschreiber.com

[Eric Schreiber]

"Cam" > wrote:

>Thanks for the suggestion. I live in South Africa dood, decent varieties of
>fish are few and far between. I have read articles and seen pics of Siamese
>Algae Eaters but have never seen a live one!

Ah, yes, that would be a problem :)

> I also hear that SAE's can get nasty once they're a bit bigger.

That may be, I don't know. Mine are fairly small yet (around 5 cm).
While they are very active fish, I haven't seen any indication of
aggressive behavior towards the other fish.

>Apparenly I need to add MORE ferts in order for the plants to take up the
>excess phosphates. Am i understanding this correctly?

Probably. The trick with plants is to strike the right balance of
nutrients, and it takes some experimenting to get it right - every
tank is different. My tank has been running for 8 months now, and the
first six were a plant and algae disaster. For me, the thing that did
the trick was adding potassium.

>Any suggestions, anyone. Is this tank still salvagable?

I'm sure it can be salvaged if you're patient. Tell us more about your
tank... what kinds of plants, how much light, are you adding CO2, what
are your water parameters, that sort of thing.

--
www.ericschreiber.com

[LeighMo]

>My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
>Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need to
>start over this weekend.

How much light do you have over the tank? And are you injecting CO2? What
kind of plants do you have? How often do you do water changes?

>There are a number of things I recognise that I
>have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus providing
>practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
>gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows.

That is not that low a fishload for a 10 gallon tank. Threadfins get to be 2".
Four of them is a lot of fish for a ten gallon tank.

I would not add Siamese Algae Eaters, either. They get to be much too large
for a 10 gallon tank. They are happiest in groups, get to be 6", and are
extremely active. Frankly, I've found 29 gallons to be too small a tank for
them.

If you want to add algae eaters, otocinclus catfish would be a better choice
for a ten gallon tank. Get three, if you can. Or try snails. Pomacea
bridgesii come in all kinds of pretty colors, and they won't take over your
tank.

Do you know for sure that nitrates are the problem? Have you tested for them?
IME, too much nitrate is more likely to be your problem than too little, unless
you have a high-light tank.



Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Eric Schreiber]

(LeighMo) wrote:

>If you want to add algae eaters, otocinclus catfish would be a better choice
>for a ten gallon tank. Get three, if you can.

Which means get six, as half are likely to die in the first week. Otos
have a high mortality rate when first brought home.

Personally, I've had poor results with otos. The first week they did a
tremendous job of cleaning up algae, but after that they moved in
under the heater in the back of the tank, and I haven't seen them
working since. I'd fire them, but I don't want to deal with severance
issues.

>Or try snails. Pomacea bridgesii come in all kinds of pretty colors,
>and they won't take over your tank.

Good advice, but make sure (Cam) that you're actually getting
bridgesii snails. You may be best off buying them from an experienced
hobbyist. May pet stores will sell a variety of snails under the
blanket name "apple / mystery snail". If you get Pomacea canaliculata
instead of bridgesii, your plants will disappear along with your
algae!



--
www.ericschreiber.com

[LeighMo]

>>If you want to add algae eaters, otocinclus catfish would be a better choice
>>for a ten gallon tank. Get three, if you can.
>
>Which means get six, as half are likely to die in the first week. Otos
>have a high mortality rate when first brought home.

That has not been my experience. I've found them to be very hardy, even when
first brought home.

I wonder if it's the shipping process that's so stressful for them. I know
pl*cos tend to suck on each other in transit, since there's no algae to eat. A
good shipper will put each pl*co in its own bag for that reason. But otos are
so small and cheap, it's really not economical to do that.

Or maybe they just starve on the long journey. They're so small.

Anyway, I don't buy otos fresh out of the truck. Otos are a "bread and butter"
fish that the pet stores always have. They tend to buy a bunch every once in
awhile, rather than a few each week as with more expensive, exotic fish. So
there's no rush to buy them, and they tend to be in the store tanks awhile. If
you wait a week before buying, for any fish, you're much less likely to suffer
losses.

>Good advice, but make sure (Cam) that you're actually getting
>bridgesii snails. You may be best off buying them from an experienced
>hobbyist. May pet stores will sell a variety of snails under the
>blanket name "apple / mystery snail". If you get Pomacea canaliculata
>instead of bridgesii, your plants will disappear along with your
>algae!

Very true. Worse, PetCo, PetSmart, etc., often sell P. canaliculata under the
name P. bridgesii. Even experienced fishkeepers often can't tell the
difference. Make sure you get them from a hobbyist or company that specializes
in planted tanks. They usually know the difference.


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[Cam]

Thanks Eric, Leighmo & Wilma for your suggestions, they are most appreciated
:)

I will try to answer all your questions throughout this post. If I miss
something you need then please let me know. Thanks.

I redid the tank. New lights (2 x 15w cool white) compact flourescents. I am
pumping DIY co2. I have 2 types of ferts (1 is a sera product and the other
is locally manufactured). I cannot get my hands on any special substrates so
I just used a fine black gravel (1-2mm) I found in one of the many pet shops
I was in this weekend!!!

I do not have test kits so I'm not even sure if it was a nitrate problem to
begin with. Believe me if you had seen the state of the tank you would have
started over aswell!!! I do water changes every Saturday, Religiously. I'm
not sure which plants I have. This weekend I bought loads of plants and have
planted all of them. I know I have 2 or 3 types of Java fern and a small
amount of Java moss. I think I have corkscrew vals and there were some long
stemmed plants with small leaves that I have not been able to id yet. Pet
shops here are not big on plants and generally don't put labels on them! I
can try and take a pic of the tank and then maybe one of you would be so
kind as to ID them for me if you have the time.

I plan to keep the lights on for 12 hours a day.
Is this too much?
When should I start adding ferts?
Fish are fed lightly once (maybe twice) per day.

Eric...Yeehaaa i got 2 siamese algae eaters this weekend. First time I've
seen a live one. I put them in my community tank as there is obviously
nothing for them to graze on in the new planted tank. Leigh, you say they're
too big for the planted tank but would'nt it be ok to put them in for a
while and then remove again once the job is done? I can get my hands on
apple snails but they seem way to bulky for the tank. I had them b4 in this
plant tank but they kept dragging my plants all over the place, these are
also in the community tank now :), should I put them back in?

For future reference, If I have another cyanobacteria outbreak, what does
this mean? Is cyano a sign of a missing nutrient? Or caused from a lack of
something or maybe an abundance of something? Cyano bacteria is ime an
absolute killer, the stuff just totally consumed my tank!!!

Thanks again for all your help guys. If there is any more info I need to
supply then please let me know. As I mentioned earlier I do not have test
kits but I can tell you that our tapwater is pretty hard. My LFS tells me
the PH ranges from high 7's to early 8's. Hope that might help! :)

Thanks again, have a wonderful week.
Kindest Regards
Cameron

[LeighMo]

>I'm
>not sure which plants I have. This weekend I bought loads of plants and have
>planted all of them. I know I have 2 or 3 types of Java fern and a small
>amount of Java moss. I think I have corkscrew vals and there were some long
>stemmed plants with small leaves that I have not been able to id yet. Pet
>shops here are not big on plants and generally don't put labels on them! I
>can try and take a pic of the tank and then maybe one of you would be so
>kind as to ID them for me if you have the time.

Since you've added more light, you should be able to grow a fairly wide variety
of plants. (Especially if you have a standard 15 gallon, since it's fairly
low.)

To prevent algae, make sure you have some of fast-growing stem plants. Egeria,
Limnophila, etc. Low-light plants tend not to grow fast enough to inhibit
algae.

>I plan to keep the lights on for 12 hours a day.
>Is this too much?

That's perfect. Don't go lower than 10 hours a day, even if you start getting
algae. Plants need at least 10 hours of light a day. If you can, put the
lights on a timer.

>Leigh, you say they're
>too big for the planted tank but would'nt it be ok to put them in for a
>while and then remove again once the job is done?

They'll be fine as long as they're small. As long as you're sure they are real
SAEs. Here in the U.S., the fish sold as SAEs usually aren't -- they're false
SAEs. Anyway, you'll know if you've got false SAEs, or real SAEs that are
getting too big -- they'll be quite aggressive with each other.

>I can get my hands on
>apple snails but they seem way to bulky for the tank. I had them b4 in this
>plant tank but they kept dragging my plants all over the place, these are
>also in the community tank now :), should I put them back in?

Only if they are Pomacea bridgesii. Any other species of apple snail will eat
your plants. See www.applesnail.net for how to tell the difference.

>For future reference, If I have another cyanobacteria outbreak, what does
>this mean? Is cyano a sign of a missing nutrient? Or caused from a lack of
>something or maybe an abundance of something? Cyano bacteria is ime an
>absolute killer, the stuff just totally consumed my tank!!!

It's hard to say without more info. It's a weird algae. I've heard it's
caused by low nitrate, high nitrate, and/or low oxygen (not enough current). I
had that algae in my low-light, nonplanted tank, when I didn't change the water
often enough. As soon as I did a large water change, it would go away. How
much water do you change each week?


Leigh

http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/

[~Vicki ~]

Otos would be your best bet for a 10 gallon tank. But like one of the
other posters said they have a high mortality rate. Once established
should do a good job. If you buy 4 - 6, half of them should live. If
you pay very close attention to them when you pick them out and only buy
ones that look fat instead of thin you should have even better results.

I can relate to the snail problem tho. Hubby got an apple snail this
weekend and before I knew it half of my plants were gone. Snail is now
a happy resident at the LFS and new plants are in the tank. Since I
don't have algae that I can see it must have felt that the plants were
ok to munch on.

Vicki

How much water do you change per week? I have found that for me 50%
keeps everything running smooth. If you don't do frequent water changes
than start off with small ones (1 gal) a week and work up to the larger
ones. To much right now would kill your fish.

[Eric Schreiber]

(LeighMo) wrote:

>>Which means get six, as half are likely to die in the first week.
>>Otos have a high mortality rate when first brought home.

>That has not been my experience. I've found them to be very hardy,
>even when first brought home.

You've been pretty lucky then, I'd say, but that's no surprise... You
seem to have a natural, um, fishy equivalent of a green thumb,
whatever that might be. I've seen lots and lots of posts about the
early deaths of new otos, as well as having it happen to me on two
occasions.


--
www.ericschreiber.com

[Cam]

Hello

My threadfins spawned last night.....YAHOOOOO!!!!

[Doug]

Cameron,

I'd be glad to take those rainbows from you!!! Actually, I'm looking for
female thread-fins at present since I have only one for my four males
and all are now coming of age. Mine are in a 30 gal with some ghost
shrimp and 3 SAE's and 2 flag-tailed porthole cats. Best tank mates I
can suggest for the thread-fins are blue-eyes from Pseudomugil species,
like P. furcata. Make fantastic tank-mates for the rainbows and are my
planned next addition (after I solve the boy-girl ratio with my present
rainbows).

Best Wishes,
-Doug


Wilma Duncan wrote:
>
> Can you get white cloud minnows. They are a beautiful fish to keep and
> peaceful.
> Wilma
> "Cam" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
> > Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need to
> > start over this weekend. There are a number of things I recognise that I
> > have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus
> providing
> > practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
> > gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows. I would like to add
> some
> > more peaceful compatible tankmates. Any suggestions? Quantity? Species? I
> > can't add more Threadfins as they are rare in my area and I bought the
> last
> > 4 from the LFS, 1 male (he's a beauty) and 3 females. Any Ideas?
> >
> > Many Thanks
> > Cameron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

--

Spammers be DAMNED!
Friendlies: change notmail to hotmail to reply.
Just keeping the web bots and crawlers from filling
our inboxes with junk! May they eternally spam
addresses that swamp their servers with bounced mail!

[James M K]

Cut the light for 2-3 hours evey day during a day.

"Cam" > wrote in message
...
> My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
> Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need to
> start over this weekend. There are a number of things I recognise that I
> have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus
providing
> practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
> gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows. I would like to add
some
> more peaceful compatible tankmates. Any suggestions? Quantity? Species? I
> can't add more Threadfins as they are rare in my area and I bought the
last
> 4 from the LFS, 1 male (he's a beauty) and 3 females. Any Ideas?
>
> Many Thanks
> Cameron
>
>
>
>
>
>

[James M K]

Algae loves day light.

"Cam" > wrote in message
...
> My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
> Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need to
> start over this weekend. There are a number of things I recognise that I
> have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus
providing
> practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
> gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows. I would like to add
some
> more peaceful compatible tankmates. Any suggestions? Quantity? Species? I
> can't add more Threadfins as they are rare in my area and I bought the
last
> 4 from the LFS, 1 male (he's a beauty) and 3 females. Any Ideas?
>
> Many Thanks
> Cameron
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Cam]

Hello James

Don't know why I'm only finding this message now cause I posted it weeks
ago! Thanks for your advice but I think that cutting the lights for 2-3
hours will do more harm than good.


--
Kind Regards
Cameron McNeill
RS&E Graphics Dept.
"James M K" > wrote in message
...
> Algae loves day light.
>
> "Cam" > wrote in message
> ...
> > My tank is Algae Soup. Fact.
> > Everything covered in slimy green web like Algae. A total mess. I need
to
> > start over this weekend. There are a number of things I recognise that I
> > have done wrong. One of them is that my fishload is very low, thus
> providing
> > practically zero nitrates or phosphates for the plants! It is a small 10
> > gallon tank that only houses 4 Threadfin Rainbows. I would like to add
> some
> > more peaceful compatible tankmates. Any suggestions? Quantity? Species?
I
> > can't add more Threadfins as they are rare in my area and I bought the
> last
> > 4 from the LFS, 1 male (he's a beauty) and 3 females. Any Ideas?
> >
> > Many Thanks
> > Cameron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>