Weird kH/gH discrepancy...why aren't my plants growing? (long)

[Arrhae]

I've got a planted ~18 gal tank that I've been running for a year or so,
just put the CO2 back in it, ran it last summer but was away most of the
winter so didn't change the bottle then, only recently got back around to
it, but I'm wondering if my monstrously high gH is having adverse affects on
the plants and fish (certain kinds of fish flat out refuse to live in it,
like livebearers, however my bumblebee and neon gobies seem quite happy with
it, and there's virtually no salt).

Measured today:
kH: 3.5 (degrees)
pH: 6.6
gH: At least over 50, it's unmeasurable with my kit
Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate: nil/nil/50ppm (dosed the tank with PlantGro Iron
Enriched before measuring this, not sure if it has any effect)
Lighting: a bit over 1.5 watts/gal
CO2: 26.375 according to a web calculator

The water comes out of the tap about 7.6, after the first night with the CO2
on it dropped to 7.4, it's been running for two weeks now and the original
bottle's still pumping out loads of the stuff. Most of the plants don't
seem to be looking any better, though (other than my java moss that's
growing like crazy, as usual...anyone in the Toronto area want some?). They
grew like crazy last year, though. Substrate's 1/3 flourite, 2/3 gravel,
and I replaced the tubes yesterday (PowerGlo and SunGlo were originally in
it, replaced the SunGlo with a FloraGlo, and changed to a fresh PowerGlo).
I tend to leave bodies in the tank if they're not diseased and are
decomposing normally, assuming there's not too many at one time, mostly
because I can virtually never find them, the fish just disappear, and due to
a bad batch of cheapie rainbowfish, there's been a couple new ones in the
last week or two.

It's all pretty much the same as I was running it last year, only the CO2
diffusion seems a bit more efficient with the current reactor, the
concentration's higher than I usually maintained, and I'm not having algae
problems so I'm assuming my water's not loaded with phosphates...it comes
out of the tap hard as a rock, though.

So I'm wondering if it's something that's accumulated in the water that
might be causing problems, like minerals from the unusually high gH reading?
I really don't want to do massive water changes, too afraid of completely
throwing everything out of whack. If there's a chance the gH is part of the
problem, how could I lower that without phucking with my kH/adding
phosphates and causing an algae bloom/etc?

If it's not likely to be part of the problem, what else would be most likely
to be causing the problem? And should I somehow try and reduce the amount
of CO2 my tank's getting? It's a yeast reactor...

Thanks!

[Iain Miller]

> Measured today:
> kH: 3.5 (degrees)
> pH: 6.6
> gH: At least over 50, it's unmeasurable with my kit
> Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate: nil/nil/50ppm (dosed the tank with PlantGro Iron
> Enriched before measuring this, not sure if it has any effect)
> Lighting: a bit over 1.5 watts/gal
> CO2: 26.375 according to a web calculator

Lighting maybe a bit low, CO2 is about as high as you'd want to drive it.

> and I replaced the tubes yesterday (PowerGlo and SunGlo were originally in
> it, replaced the SunGlo with a FloraGlo, and changed to a fresh PowerGlo).

I use Life-Glo's - a bit more expensive but highly effective.

> I tend to leave bodies in the tank if they're not diseased

How can you tell? I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

>I'm assuming my water's not loaded with phosphates...it comes
> out of the tap hard as a rock, though.

> So I'm wondering if it's something that's accumulated in the water that
> might be causing problems, like minerals from the unusually high gH
reading?
> I really don't want to do massive water changes, too afraid of completely
> throwing everything out of whack. If there's a chance the gH is part of
the
> problem, how could I lower that without phucking with my kH/adding
> phosphates and causing an algae bloom/etc?

You can get water softening pillows that you put in the tank that will
reduce the Gh.

> If it's not likely to be part of the problem, what else would be most
likely
> to be causing the problem? And should I somehow try and reduce the amount
> of CO2 my tank's getting? It's a yeast reactor...

Surface movement or an airstone....

rgds

I.

>
> Thanks!
>

[Arrhae]

On 8/1/03 6:22 PM, in article
, "Iain Miller"
> wrote:

>> and I replaced the tubes yesterday (PowerGlo and SunGlo were originally in
>> it, replaced the SunGlo with a FloraGlo, and changed to a fresh PowerGlo).
>
> I use Life-Glo's - a bit more expensive but highly effective.

I was planning on getting one of those, however the store's display of tubes
wasn't lit up so I couldn't compare the colors and had to go by the labels,
wasn't sure if the Life-Glo was the correct spectrum for plants, and since
it was twice as much as a Power-Glo, I didn't try it. The tank's a
Tropiquarium...not really suitable for retrofitting, and I've messed with
the wiring in the hood so many times I'm afraid to touch it again...

>> I tend to leave bodies in the tank if they're not diseased
>
> How can you tell? I'm not sure that's such a good idea.

Generally they've been beaten up if I find them dead, otherwise they just
disappear, and it's usually only rather isolated incidents with the rest of
the tank not being affected.

>
>> I'm assuming my water's not loaded with phosphates...it comes
>> out of the tap hard as a rock, though.
>
>> So I'm wondering if it's something that's accumulated in the water that
>> might be causing problems, like minerals from the unusually high gH
> reading?
>> I really don't want to do massive water changes, too afraid of completely
>> throwing everything out of whack. If there's a chance the gH is part of
> the
>> problem, how could I lower that without phucking with my kH/adding
>> phosphates and causing an algae bloom/etc?
>
> You can get water softening pillows that you put in the tank that will
> reduce the Gh.

I'd heard those contained phosphates, though? Wouldn't that screw
everything up?

>> If it's not likely to be part of the problem, what else would be most
> likely
>> to be causing the problem? And should I somehow try and reduce the amount
>> of CO2 my tank's getting? It's a yeast reactor...
>
> Surface movement or an airstone....

So it is too high, even if the fish aren't gasping?

[Iain Miller]

> > You can get water softening pillows that you put in the tank that will
> > reduce the Gh.
>
> I'd heard those contained phosphates, though? Wouldn't that screw
> everything up?

Not that I know of.....check with the manufacturers if you are worried.

> >> If it's not likely to be part of the problem, what else would be most
> > likely
> >> to be causing the problem? And should I somehow try and reduce the
amount
> >> of CO2 my tank's getting? It's a yeast reactor...
> >
> > Surface movement or an airstone....
>
> So it is too high, even if the fish aren't gasping?

No but CO2 levels & O2 levels are not really linked. If the CO2 gets too
high the fish just get kinda poisoned despite the fact that there may be
high levels of O2 in the tank. You are at the upper end of where it wants to
be. Anything above 15ppm is fine. In fact ANY increase in CO2 makes a
dramatic difference. I've got a full blown Ph controlled Gas bottle system
on one tank & that runs at about 20ppm. On my other tank (which is about 45
USG) I've got one of those Hagen Nutrafin things going. Its way too small to
raise the CO2 levels significantly - I'd be surprised if they were up past
5-7ppm but it has made a huge difference to the plants in there.

rgds

I.

I.