Re: Seeking opinions about substrate options

[Jeff Heimsch]

Flourite!!!


"Doug and Lois" > wrote in message
...
> One of my planted tanks has become a nightmare. The alage growth is
> overwhelming. I am quite sure that I made a mistake with the substrate
when
> I set the thing up. (Trust me on this. Water parameters are great and the
> light is sufficient and of the proper wavelength. I have other planted
tanks
> doing just fine that, toherwise, are identical to the nasty one. OK, I'll
> fess up. I set it up with a layer of peat covered with a layer of small
> gravel. I have done that many times nefore with great success once the
> initial tannins leach out of the peat. But, in this case, I added some
> commercial houseplant potting soil. Seems to have been a BIG mistake.) SO,
> since it is time to get a larger tank anyway, it seems a good time to
break
> down the old tank and start over.
>
> So, here are my options. I wonder which you folks think is the best
choice.
> My goal is a feshwater plant system with soft water and low pH for Angels,
> Discuss, Dwarf South American Cichlids, and some tetras as well as the
usual
> army of bottom feeders including some corys and plecos.
>
> 1. Do the peat thing again but forget the potting soil!!!! I like the way
> this maintains the water chemistry but it is a bit frustrating waiting for
> the tannins to leach out so the water will stop turning a lovely shade of
> yellow and clear up. usually takes about three months in the systems I
have
> set up before. Would you add laterite to this mix if you were going to use
> it????
>
> 2. Plain old gravel. (You are going tohave to do a LOT of convincing to
get
> me to buy into THAT one)
>
> 3. Profile (That water plant stuff sold at Home Depot and Lowes for garden
> pond plants.) I have heard a number of people report good success. But is
it
> rich enough for more difficult plants? Would you add any soil additives to
> that like the Laterite my LFS wants to sell me?
>
> 4. Any other suggestions? the ideal would be a sbstrate rich enough to
> support a variety of plants.
>
> Doug
>
>
>

[~Vicki ~]

What is wrong with gravel. I use it in my tank and my plants are great.
Most aquatic plants get there nutrition through their leaves anyways so
the other stuff is a waist of money in my opinion. The plants roots are
more or less anchors for the plants and good water movement through
their roots is another good benefit from gravel. And lastly if you use
a good fertilizer and have fish to provide nutrients, the substrate is
not very important.

Vicki

my 2 cent

[Racf]

"Doug and Lois" > wrote in message
...
> One of my planted tanks has become a nightmare. The alage growth is
> overwhelming. I am quite sure that I made a mistake with the substrate
when
> I set the thing up. (Trust me on this. Water parameters are great and
the
> light is sufficient and of the proper wavelength. I have other planted
tanks
> doing just fine that, toherwise, are identical to the nasty one. OK,
I'll
> fess up. I set it up with a layer of peat covered with a layer of
small
> gravel. I have done that many times nefore with great success once the
> initial tannins leach out of the peat. But, in this case, I added some
> commercial houseplant potting soil. Seems to have been a BIG mistake.)
SO,
> since it is time to get a larger tank anyway, it seems a good time to
break
> down the old tank and start over.
>
> So, here are my options. I wonder which you folks think is the best
choice.
> My goal is a feshwater plant system with soft water and low pH for
Angels,
> Discuss, Dwarf South American Cichlids, and some tetras as well as the
usual
> army of bottom feeders including some corys and plecos.
>
> 1. Do the peat thing again but forget the potting soil!!!! I like the
way
> this maintains the water chemistry but it is a bit frustrating waiting
for
> the tannins to leach out so the water will stop turning a lovely shade
of
> yellow and clear up. usually takes about three months in the systems I
have
> set up before. Would you add laterite to this mix if you were going to
use
> it????

No.

>
> 2. Plain old gravel. (You are going tohave to do a LOT of convincing
to get
> me to buy into THAT one)

Yes and Sand with it. Add some Seachem gravel conditioner. I have
found this to work the best and be cost effective..

>
> 3. Profile (That water plant stuff sold at Home Depot and Lowes for
garden
> pond plants.) I have heard a number of people report good success. But
is it
> rich enough for more difficult plants? Would you add any soil
additives to
> that like the Laterite my LFS wants to sell me?

No worst substrate can be had than this crap.... Do not make this
mistake.

>
> 4. Any other suggestions? the ideal would be a sbstrate rich enough to
> support a variety of plants.
>
> Doug
>
>
>

[Dinky]

"~Vicki ~" > wrote in message
...
> What is wrong with gravel. I use it in my tank and my plants are great.
> Most aquatic plants get there nutrition through their leaves anyways so
> the other stuff is a waist of money in my opinion. The plants roots are
> more or less anchors for the plants and good water movement through
> their roots is another good benefit from gravel. And lastly if you use
> a good fertilizer and have fish to provide nutrients, the substrate is
> not very important.
>
> Vicki
>
That may be true for some plants, such as hornwort or anacharis, which seem
to grow no matter what you do to them, but there are a great many that
simply won't flourish in gravel. For example, swords crave a very rich sub,
which I've found requires a denser material, like sand.

[TomD]

"Doug and Lois" > wrote in message
...
<snip>
> 4. Any other suggestions? the ideal would be a sbstrate rich enough to
> support a variety of plants.
>
> Doug
>

Hi Doug,

I've done a little reading about using a more "natural" and less expensive
substrate. I found the book by Walstad was a great resource, but my initial
frustration with the book was that it didn't tell me exactly what types of
soils to use - it seems funny now that I would expect the author to do so
when there is such a variety of soils, soil mixtures, ect., plus it takes
half the fun out of it :)

I did roughly follow the substrate recipe from
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/kelly-intro.html, but I used a local clay and
loam mixture from a pond shop. One thing I did learn in reading about the
soils for the aquarium was that you really have to try and avoid soil
mixtures that have fertalizers and decomposable matter such as wood, leaves,
etc. Otherwise they will begin to rot (or so I have read). My tank and
experience are both realtively new, but I thought I would post my findings
in case it was of interest.

Tom

[~Vicki ~]

That may be true for some plants, such as hornwort or anacharis, which
seem to grow no matter what you do to them, but there are a great many
that simply won't flourish in gravel. For example, swords crave a very
rich sub, which I've found requires a denser material, like sand.
>
>
>
Swords is the bulk of what I grow very successfully in gravel. In fact
I have so many varieties of Echinodorus growing in gravel that I had to
post again and tell ya that that is not true.

Vicki

[Dinky]

"~Vicki ~" > wrote in message
...

> >
> Swords is the bulk of what I grow very successfully in gravel. In fact
> I have so many varieties of Echinodorus growing in gravel that I had to
> post again and tell ya that that is not true.
>
> Vicki
>
Well, as is so often pointed out, some things work famously for one, and are
tragic for another. YMMV, as always, yah-hey?

<g>
billy

[Dave Engle]

"Racf" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Doug and Lois" > wrote in message
> ...
> > 3. Profile (That water plant stuff sold at Home Depot and Lowes
for
> garden
> > pond plants.) I have heard a number of people report good
success. But
> is it
> > rich enough for more difficult plants? Would you add any soil
> additives to
> > that like the Laterite my LFS wants to sell me?
>
> No worst substrate can be had than this crap.... Do not make this
> mistake.

Profile can make an excellent substrate! My only complaint is that
it is too light and is stirred up too easily. My favorite substrate
of all time is a 50/50 mix of Profile and Flourite. I just put the
Profile on the bottom and the Flourite on top. The Profile
significantly cuts the price of your substrate, while the Flourite
holds down the Profile and looks nicer.

If you want some hard facts on different materials that you might be
thinking about using in your substrate, check out this research that
Jamie Johnson did a while back:
http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm

While you're there, you might as well read the rest of the excellent
articles that Steve Pushak has...

http://home.infinet.net/teban/index.html

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Engle

DFW, TX USA
Independent Associate
Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc.
http://www.prepaidlegal.com/go/dengle

[Cammie]

I had to get rid of my substrate because it was upping my silicates, it was
like your typical gravel but softer. I now have glass gravel, it's chopped
up and smoothed out of recycled glass. Looks great, and no effect on the
water. That other substrate I used gave me red/brown algae outbreaks.

As for green algae on your plants, get a Pleco! he'll have it algae free
quick! Forget the Corys, a Pleco will eat stuf on the bottom as well as the
glass and plants.

[Doug and Lois]

SUPERB site recommendations. Thanks. there is more information there then I
could possibly take in.

Thanks

Doug

"Dave Engle" > wrote in message
...
> "Racf" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Doug and Lois" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > 3. Profile (That water plant stuff sold at Home Depot and Lowes
> for
> > garden
> > > pond plants.) I have heard a number of people report good
> success. But
> > is it
> > > rich enough for more difficult plants? Would you add any soil
> > additives to
> > > that like the Laterite my LFS wants to sell me?
> >
> > No worst substrate can be had than this crap.... Do not make this
> > mistake.
>
> Profile can make an excellent substrate! My only complaint is that
> it is too light and is stirred up too easily. My favorite substrate
> of all time is a 50/50 mix of Profile and Flourite. I just put the
> Profile on the bottom and the Flourite on top. The Profile
> significantly cuts the price of your substrate, while the Flourite
> holds down the Profile and looks nicer.
>
> If you want some hard facts on different materials that you might be
> thinking about using in your substrate, check out this research that
> Jamie Johnson did a while back:
> http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm
>
> While you're there, you might as well read the rest of the excellent
> articles that Steve Pushak has...
>
> http://home.infinet.net/teban/index.html
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Dave Engle
>
> DFW, TX USA
> Independent Associate
> Pre-Paid Legal Services, Inc.
> http://www.prepaidlegal.com/go/dengle
>
>