GH/ PH Levels!?!?

[Nick D]

Does anyone have any ideas about how to reduce GH without affecting
the PH? I have too much Calcium and Magnesium in my tap water and
would like to reduce it without compromising the PH levels. My GH
right now is 10deg, which is roughly 180-200ppm. I think this is too
high and it is also affecting my plants as high concentrations of
Magnesium/ GH block the uptake of Potassium (the reason my plants are
yellowing in an otherwise healthy tank.)

Thanks in advance,
Nick D.

[Amit]

Nick,
From where do you have the data that high GH blocks the uptake of potassium
?
What plants are effected by this ???
PH and GH are not to close to each other, it is the KH that effect the PH.
(Carbonate Hardness)
You can soften your water by filtering with peat or use RO water - but not
knowing your tank specs make also difficult to answer.
I have in my planted tank water are hard:
My PH is 7.2 GH is 12dh - Hard water
Plants seems happy and green!
HTH

Amit

"Nick D" > wrote in message
om...
> Does anyone have any ideas about how to reduce GH without affecting
> the PH? I have too much Calcium and Magnesium in my tap water and
> would like to reduce it without compromising the PH levels. My GH
> right now is 10deg, which is roughly 180-200ppm. I think this is too
> high and it is also affecting my plants as high concentrations of
> Magnesium/ GH block the uptake of Potassium (the reason my plants are
> yellowing in an otherwise healthy tank.)
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nick D.

[Chuck Gadd]

On 27 Nov 2003 10:52:40 -0800, (Nick D) wrote:

>Does anyone have any ideas about how to reduce GH without affecting
>the PH? I have too much Calcium and Magnesium in my tap water and
>would like to reduce it without compromising the PH levels. My GH
>right now is 10deg, which is roughly 180-200ppm. I think this is too
>high and it is also affecting my plants as high concentrations of
>Magnesium/ GH block the uptake of Potassium (the reason my plants are
>yellowing in an otherwise healthy tank.)

I don't think 10 degrees GH is too high. Probably not high enough to
cause problems with potassium uptake.

Which plants are having problems? What are the other tank parameters?

For overall yellowing, I'd look at light levels, and nitrate levels.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Nick D]

Chuck Gadd > wrote in message >...
> On 27 Nov 2003 10:52:40 -0800, (Nick D) wrote:
>
> >Does anyone have any ideas about how to reduce GH without affecting
> >the PH? I have too much Calcium and Magnesium in my tap water and
> >would like to reduce it without compromising the PH levels. My GH
> >right now is 10deg, which is roughly 180-200ppm. I think this is too
> >high and it is also affecting my plants as high concentrations of
> >Magnesium/ GH block the uptake of Potassium (the reason my plants are
> >yellowing in an otherwise healthy tank.)
>
> I don't think 10 degrees GH is too high. Probably not high enough to
> cause problems with potassium uptake.
>
> Which plants are having problems? What are the other tank parameters?
>
> For overall yellowing, I'd look at light levels, and nitrate levels.
>
>
>
> Chuck Gadd
> http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Hi...thanks for replying.

Check out this Link from the 'Magnesium Master'.
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9611/msg00193.html

It would be useful if they was a website outlining all Macro & Micro
Nutrients, and which nutrients _block_ other nutrients. It is driving
me mad that my Amazons are disintegrating along the tips and edges and
yellowing overall, with holes in the leaves to boot. This has been
happening for months now! People just keep telling me its Potassium
deficiency. I think that Magnesium also blocks Iron, as well as
Potassium, so this could be the problem. Infact, last week (in a
frustrated rage) I dumped a whole 250ml bottle if Seachem Potassium
supplement into my tank and there has been no changes whatsoever! New
shoots are yellow and weak, while older leaves are fading away.

Tank Specs:
2 Platys
5 Cardinals
1 Cory
1 Pleco
1 Dwarf Frog
2 Hatchets
29 Gal.- Setup 8 mo. ago
Light: 1x20watt Hagen Sun Glo & 1x20watt Aqua Glo (On 14hrs/day)
Temp 76F
Ph 7.0
Gh 10deg
Kh 11deg
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Iron .75 mg/l
Trace Elements Added Weekly
Flourite Gravel Bed
4 Amazon Swords (2 Already Yellowing after buying 1 week ago, others
disintegrating around tips and edges)
2 Melon Swords (Yellow & Browning)
1 Anubias Barteri (Yellow Holes & Brown Marks)
Cabomba (Growing Out of Control)
Osirius (Could be Doing Better)
Wisteria (Holes in Leaves)
Hygros (Twisted and Yellow Leaves)
Plants are growing new shoots but very pale and not very fast.

Thoughts anyone??

Thanks,
Nick D.

[Greg G.]

On 27 Nov 2003 10:52:40 -0800, (Nick D) wrote:
>>
>> >Does anyone have any ideas about how to reduce GH without affecting
>> >the PH? I have too much Calcium and Magnesium in my tap water and
>> >would like to reduce it without compromising the PH levels. My GH
>> >right now is 10deg, which is roughly 180-200ppm. I think this is too
>> >high and it is also affecting my plants as high concentrations of
>> >Magnesium/ GH block the uptake of Potassium (the reason my plants are
>> >yellowing in an otherwise healthy tank.)

Hi,

Jumping in, and I *could* be wrong here, but I don't believe that high
gH is your problem. kH or Carbonate hardness is what effects pH. I
also wonder about your reported dkH level of 11 and a pH of 7.0?!
Either you are injecting CO2 (and too much at that - those values work
out to 33ppm - enough to kill fish), or your kits are not reading
correctly.

Sounds more like a nitrate deficiency to me, or possibly low light
levels - or both! I didn't see ANY nitrate ferts listed in your list
of additions. Two twenty watt tubes is generally not considered 'high
light'. Add some macro fertilizers, either $tore bought or homemade.
Trace mixes are just that - trace elements, not macro element
fertilizers.

Don't laugh, I am serious here - but I use a mix of stump remover,
no-salt and fleet enema for my macro nutrient supplements. In your
tank, this would work out to somewhere around 1/2 tsp of potassium
nitrate, 1/4 tsp of no-salt, and 1 ml of fleet enema.

Swords are heavy root feeders, and generally do better with ferts
added to the substrate around their roots. They generally need high
light levels as well. Also, many plants sold in chain pet stores are
not true aquatics. For instance, many plants sold as Amazon
(Brazilian) Swords at PetSmart are actually Spathiphyllum - NOT an
aquatic, but a house plant known as Peace Lily or White Flag. They
will slowly rot underwater - be sure of your plant IDs.

Here is a link with a pictorial library for IDing your plants:
http://www.tropica.com/plant_print.asp

Try the Krib for general info:
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/

Another good plant link with detailed info on kH, pH and CO2 levels:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/

And try some crypts, they will do great in your tank at it's current
light levels.

Good Luck,
Greg

[Amit]

Well I think we both have the same symptoms of the Amazon sward plant! Don't
mention its driving you mad we're in the same boat.
I was posting several questions regarding this plant (I also took some
pictures of it as well) the thing with mine is that I 've bought them
several weeks ago and the leaves are narrow and long and it seems that the
plant is replacing it original leaves! I am giving it another chance....
I also think I've posted too many question in this group whether planted do
better in soft water - And most of replies were the opposite.
All posts and articles regarding echinodorus mention that it does well in
hard water and con tolerate PH levels up to 9....
One thing people mention is the use of jobes spikes - I've never tried it.
Bare in mind that Amazon swards need plenty of room and are doing better in
larger tanks.
As for your setup maybe you are dosing to much iron ???? I think that extra
iron can cause chlorosis - same symptoms as you describe....
I'd also reduce the light duration for 10 hours,I am also adding CO2
Try this:
Reduce lighting duration, try only 2 Amazon plants instead of 4 and make
sure they have plenty of room.
Trim away yellow and dying leaves and see how goes....
If someone here can confirm Karen Randall article (Well It must be
correct...) I'd glad to hear.

Amit
"Nick D" > wrote in message
om...
> Chuck Gadd > wrote in message
>...
> > On 27 Nov 2003 10:52:40 -0800, (Nick D) wrote:
> >
> > >Does anyone have any ideas about how to reduce GH without affecting
> > >the PH? I have too much Calcium and Magnesium in my tap water and
> > >would like to reduce it without compromising the PH levels. My GH
> > >right now is 10deg, which is roughly 180-200ppm. I think this is too
> > >high and it is also affecting my plants as high concentrations of
> > >Magnesium/ GH block the uptake of Potassium (the reason my plants are
> > >yellowing in an otherwise healthy tank.)
> >
> > I don't think 10 degrees GH is too high. Probably not high enough to
> > cause problems with potassium uptake.
> >
> > Which plants are having problems? What are the other tank parameters?
> >
> > For overall yellowing, I'd look at light levels, and nitrate levels.
> >
> >
> >
> > Chuck Gadd
> > http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
>
> Hi...thanks for replying.
>
> Check out this Link from the 'Magnesium Master'.
> http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.9611/msg00193.html
>
> It would be useful if they was a website outlining all Macro & Micro
> Nutrients, and which nutrients _block_ other nutrients. It is driving
> me mad that my Amazons are disintegrating along the tips and edges and
> yellowing overall, with holes in the leaves to boot. This has been
> happening for months now! People just keep telling me its Potassium
> deficiency. I think that Magnesium also blocks Iron, as well as
> Potassium, so this could be the problem. Infact, last week (in a
> frustrated rage) I dumped a whole 250ml bottle if Seachem Potassium
> supplement into my tank and there has been no changes whatsoever! New
> shoots are yellow and weak, while older leaves are fading away.
>
> Tank Specs:
> 2 Platys
> 5 Cardinals
> 1 Cory
> 1 Pleco
> 1 Dwarf Frog
> 2 Hatchets
> 29 Gal.- Setup 8 mo. ago
> Light: 1x20watt Hagen Sun Glo & 1x20watt Aqua Glo (On 14hrs/day)
> Temp 76F
> Ph 7.0
> Gh 10deg
> Kh 11deg
> Nitrite 0
> Ammonia 0
> Iron .75 mg/l
> Trace Elements Added Weekly
> Flourite Gravel Bed
> 4 Amazon Swords (2 Already Yellowing after buying 1 week ago, others
> disintegrating around tips and edges)
> 2 Melon Swords (Yellow & Browning)
> 1 Anubias Barteri (Yellow Holes & Brown Marks)
> Cabomba (Growing Out of Control)
> Osirius (Could be Doing Better)
> Wisteria (Holes in Leaves)
> Hygros (Twisted and Yellow Leaves)
> Plants are growing new shoots but very pale and not very fast.
>
> Thoughts anyone??
>
> Thanks,
> Nick D.

[Chuck Gadd]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 15:15:02 -0500, Greg
> wrote:

>gH is your problem. kH or Carbonate hardness is what effects pH. I
>also wonder about your reported dkH level of 11 and a pH of 7.0?!
>Either you are injecting CO2 (and too much at that - those values work
>out to 33ppm - enough to kill fish), or your kits are not reading

33ppm won't kill fish. Many people have used levels as high as 40ppm
without problem. But I prefer a safe max of about 25ppm or so, just
to give myself some margin for error.

>of additions. Two twenty watt tubes is generally not considered 'high
>light'. Add some macro fertilizers, either $tore bought or homemade.

I ran 4 20w tubes over my 29g, and it was probably only medium
lighting.


>And try some crypts, they will do great in your tank at it's current
>light levels.

Anubias would do great too.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

[Greg G.]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:51:30 -0700, Chuck Gadd > wrote:

>33ppm won't kill fish. Many people have used levels as high as 40ppm
>without problem. But I prefer a safe max of about 25ppm or so, just
>to give myself some margin for error.

I guess I *should* have said - may kill *some* fish...
I have had trouble with some cory catfish croaking at levels >30ppm...

It's hard to be *precisely* accurate when spewing advice in 1 minute
or less... ;-)

>I ran 4 20w tubes over my 29g, and it was probably only medium
>lighting.

I was being generous... ;-)

I had a setup on a 29g that was 6 tubes with electronic ballasts that
I *barely* considered high light...

FWIW,
Greg

[Sergey Politaev]

"Amit" > wrote in message
...
> Well I think we both have the same symptoms of the Amazon sward plant!
Don't
> mention its driving you mad we're in the same boat.
> I was posting several questions regarding this plant (I also took some
> pictures of it as well) the thing with mine is that I 've bought them
> several weeks ago and the leaves are narrow and long and it seems that the
> plant is replacing it original leaves!

Swards in most cases replace their roots after replanting, surely it can be
the reason for certain disbalance with all the symptoms of macronutrient
deficiency, as they are real rootfeeders.
I won't recomend to enforce job spikes or some other "caloric" food upon
them during this period. Better to wait until they begin to grow.
--
~SP~
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
Albert Einstein